ghoti0315 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Well, they suck. When they are not suck, DE will nerf them until they suck. EDIT: gaze range is a joke, like srsly wth 12m beam Edited June 13, 2020 by Nightmare142857 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urlan Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 48 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said: Wow that's some salt But did people really think the primary versions were going to out damage the secondaries? The secondaries that have better damage mods over the primaries really? Ah yes it's totally gonna do more damage with 55% less damage and 90% less multishot. The main reason why i thought people wanted primary kitguns is cause of mods like hunter munitions not because they want more damage, that's idiotic for wanting more damage from kitguns they already eclipse most secondaries and you want that to happen to primaries? Some people want power creep to destroy the game and they don't even know it. If people think that progression is power creep, they obviously understand the concept. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiga Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I fail to see how all these "countercomplainers" have a point here. New content, especially content that requires a significant grind to experience fully should not be dead on arrival. Is it salty to expect there to be some kind of competitive reward for the effort of obtaining it? Or are people fine with development time wasted on content that doesn't see any use because it sucks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesodos Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kaiga said: I fail to see how all these "countercomplainers" have a point here. New content, especially content that requires a significant grind to experience fully should not be dead on arrival. Is it salty to expect there to be some kind of competitive reward for the effort of obtaining it? Or are people fine with development time wasted on content that doesn't see any use because it sucks? Kitguns aren't significant grind... unless you call 2 hours of chill farming that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagamilight123 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 .... I can oneshot a lvl 165 gunner/bombard with the Toomfinger one .... that does not seems weak O.o . Its like a mini kuva bramma with infinite ammo . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiga Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Nesodos said: Kitguns aren't significant grind... unless you call 2 hours of chill farming that way. Silly me, i didn't realize Old Mate at T5 solaris rep to gild and customize with the full parts list and arcanes only took two hours. Must have forgotten that part 🤔 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krankbert Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) vor 6 Stunden schrieb (XB1)The Neko Otaku: Wow that's some salt But did people really think the primary versions were going to out damage the secondaries? Doing the same damage isn't doing more damage. Stop using strawman arguments. Primary kitguns being as good as secondary kitguns isn't power creep, it's not even progression - these are weapons that become available at the same time for the same ressources from the same NPC. Them having the same general power level is an absolute no-brainer. Edited June 13, 2020 by Krankbert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)caoshen0625 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Krankbert said: Doing the same damage isn't doing more damage. Stop using strawman arguments. Primary kitguns being as good as secondary kitguns isn't power creep, it's not even progression - these are weapons that become available at the same time for the same ressources from the same NPC. Them having the same general power level is an absolute no-brainer. But secondary don't have hunter munition. How do you calculate the trade off for hunter munition. I just saw a video about primary tombfinger, it got charge shot, mf just like kuva bramma. That's way powerful than secondary tombfinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelous_A Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) Do the primary kitguns give separate MR? Edited June 14, 2020 by Marvelous_A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urlan Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 41 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said: Do the primary kitguns give separate MR? Sorry, no; they are still using the same chambers so they will share the same mastery rank if you mastered them as pistols already. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Ares_Arizen Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 I mean, seems to me like you're testing pretty bad configurations. Have you considered building a more balanced kitgun? Up the status chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystles Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Good. Wasnt looking forward to having every primary be made irrelevant with the equivalent kit gun like they did with Melee and then Secondaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox_Terminus Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) On 2020-06-12 at 3:28 AM, Nesodos said: You combined projectile and explosion damage for the pistol but not for the primary. (91 projectile + 89 explosion, 30% falloff at 1.9 range) Fast shot from the primary deals 224 damage and charge does 606 damage. (25% & 70% falloff at range of 1.7 & 6.2) These aren't exact bc the system works a bit different than just combining them but it fits your comparison. PS: You also neglect that secondaries have a slower rof than the primaries You seem to be forgetting that the second multi-shot mod for secondaries boosts fire rate by 60% which is actually significant as there is no +multishot +firerate mod for primaries. For example... Secondary Rattleguts with max fire-rate and crit (for pure brrrt shenanigans) Crit Chance 33.0% (same) Crit Damage 2.3x (same) Fire Rate 11.0 vs 17.0 Magazine 67 (same) Reload 1.7 (same) Status Chance 11.0% (same) Damage Impact 7.0 vs 0.5 Puncture 5.0 vs 3.5 Slash 10.0 vs 1.5 Radiation 0 vs 7.5 Total 22.0 vs 13.0 So the secondary Rattleguts has 69.2% higher base damage than the primary, and when you factor in Lethal Torrent, it's fire rate increases to 17.6 which is 3.59% faster than the primary. Couple that with the primed mods secondaries have, and the base damage mod secondaries have, and you end up seeing that the secondary rattleguts is better in literally all metrics, even uptime, because secondaries can use Arcane Pistoleer, which allows you to just keep shooting. So on paper sure, the primary Catchmoon and Rattleguts shoot 'faster' but only if you willfully ignore what mods they will undoubtedly use compared to their secondary counterparts. Edited June 14, 2020 by Nox_Terminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormWolf1337 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Combine Tombfinger (Chamber) + Tremor (Grip) + Killstream (Loader) and you now have a primary semi-automatic laser rifle that's also an OP Bramma without bomb-lets. So far that I've tested it, it's probably the newest best OP primary weapon in WF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krankbert Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) vor 10 Stunden schrieb (PS4)caoshen0625: But secondary don't have hunter munition. How do you calculate the trade off for hunter munition. With math, like everything else. That's also not really releveant to my comment or the one I responded to. I was arguing that they ought to be equal in response to someone who was arguing that they shouldn't be. Thinking that they should be worse is an asinine opinion to have, no matter whether they're actually worse or not. Edited June 14, 2020 by Krankbert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesodos Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 14 hours ago, Kaiga said: Silly me, i didn't realize Old Mate at T5 solaris rep to gild and customize with the full parts list and arcanes only took two hours. Must have forgotten that part 🤔 You need to be "Doer" at T3 to gild them and only need T5 to get the max out of the system. Even at lower tiers you can make very strong guns with endgame viability. The type of content thats directed at people who already have endgame gear isn't meant to be acquired immediately. (even less so by new players) You need 240k standing to reach T5 from neutral. Thats maximum a month of lazy grind to max it out. (unless you are not equipped to reach that content yet) The mats for the kitgun can be harvested in less than 2 hours if you have reached the point at which you are supposed to acquire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesodos Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Nox_Terminus said: You seem to be forgetting that the second multi-shot mod for secondaries boosts fire rate by 60% which is actually significant as there is no +multishot +firerate mod for primaries. For example... Secondary Rattleguts with max fire-rate and crit (for pure brrrt shenanigans) Crit Chance 33.0% (same) Crit Damage 2.3x (same) Fire Rate 11.0 vs 17.0 Magazine 67 (same) Reload 1.7 (same) Status Chance 11.0% (same) Damage Impact 7.0 vs 0.5 Puncture 5.0 vs 3.5 Slash 10.0 vs 1.5 Radiation 0 vs 7.5 Total 22.0 vs 13.0 So the secondary Rattleguts has 69.2% higher base damage than the primary, and when you factor in Lethal Torrent, it's fire rate increases to 17.6 which is 3.59% faster than the primary. Couple that with the primed mods secondaries have, and the base damage mod secondaries have, and you end up seeing that the secondary rattleguts is better in literally all metrics, even uptime, because secondaries can use Arcane Pistoleer, which allows you to just keep shooting. So on paper sure, the primary Catchmoon and Rattleguts shoot 'faster' but only if you willfully ignore what mods they will undoubtedly use compared to their secondary counterparts. The catchmoon and rattleguts primaries are trash anyway and need a serious buff. (Tombfinger is a monster) I was only pointing out that the comparison of the OP lacks depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XzWasPzX Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 hace 11 minutos, Nesodos dijo: The catchmoon and rattleguts primaries are trash anyway and need a serious buff. (Tombfinger is a monster) I was only pointing out that the comparison of the OP lacks depth. Rattleguts may be not so trash as you think... But any weapon is a trash compared to hybrid shotguns, everybody knows. Its just a matter of forma and mod configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)caoshen0625 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Krankbert said: With math, like everything else. That's also not really releveant to my comment or the one I responded to. I was arguing that they ought to be equal in response to someone who was arguing that they shouldn't be. Thinking that they should be worse is an asinine opinion to have, no matter whether they're actually worse or not. That's what I'm asking bro, what's the math. Hunter munition is chance based slash proc which by pass armor. Just like status & crit chance we need standard normal distribution for that shet. So even tho primaries damage status is lower, the TTK might be better. I'm just saying it might be better than kitgun, tho I can't test yet. And after reading comment you are responding to, yeah it's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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