The option to let us rescue Solaris has just made the Tenno more morally questionable

[Zahnny]

As you're probably aware, we can now rescue Solaris members on the new Corpus ship tilesets, and the tier of coin changes the amount of Standing you recieve. 300 for T1 coin and 900 for T3, assumingly 600 for T2 if this is consistant. This all sounds okay in practice right? Well, as you're probably aware, we can only get one Coin per mission, and there's typically more than one Solaris member in a mission. And we need these same coins to farm these new parts.

This now makes the Tenno look really questionable as even if you do want to save all of the Solaris in a mission, you can't unless you stock up on coins, and stocking up on coins implies there are missions where you've left Solaris to die or to be shelved.

I mentioned in Clan chat that imagine that there is a Syndicate mssion and you have the POV of a Solaris member in captivity. You witness a Warframe, a beacon of hope and saviors of the Origin system, and they just...pick up a medallion off the floor then leave you to your fate.

But wait! It gets worse. Someone else in Clan chat mentioned Corpus Sabotage. Where we make a ship go Critical to Freeze into dead space, Snuff itself out in flame or face total life support failure from hazardous magnetic activity.

Yeah...This isn't entirely a good look. If that was the intent of adding some moral ambiguity to the Tenno then, fair enough. But it kinda paints an awful picture of the Tenno.

[Learicorn]

I don't think anyone can blame a Tenno for not saving a captive if... They physically cannot do it at that point in time.

We already do much more than anyone could ever expect us to considering a war scenario. If you don't believe me, an example is when Allan Turing and his crew had to let thousands of soldiers in WW2 die in multiple battles across years for the sake not raising suspicion and letting his machine remaining undiscovered, despite how easily they could've turned these situations with what they knew.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Learicorn

[Zahnny]

1 minute ago, Learicorn said:

I don't think anyone can blame a Tenno for not saving a captive if... They physically cannot do it at that point in time.

I guess but I can't shake the feeling of leaving them to their fate simply so I have a resource to farm some items.

[Katinka]

I'm puzzled why I need to spend a coin at all when the guy shouts "The switch is over there!".  Maybe we should have an option to free them without spending coins for 0 standing?  I'm really not sure why we get different amounts for the different coins anyway.  Is it not spent?  Is it instead donated to the guy who may then have a better chance at survival if we gave him a better coin?  I just don't get it.

Just thought about how a rescue mission must look, running past all these guys like "Not you!".

[Genitive]

9 minutes ago, Katinka said:

I'm puzzled why I need to spend a coin at all when the guy shouts "The switch is over there!"

It's a slot machine. Insert coin and win a Solaris.

[kgabor]

2 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Insert coin and win a Solaris.

Khajiit has w̶a̶r̶e̶s̶ Solaris slaves if you have coin.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Tenno are pretty neutral, personally I see us as good, we help people in Fortuna and The Ostrons. We help grineer defectors escape, we killed almost all of the Orokin which were major a-holes, we fight the sentients that want to kill everything(if grineer weren't stupid they wouldn't have to die in scarlet spear)

[OvisCaedo]

I don't think there was much thought put into it. They're just sort of shoved in to give a _{(virtually worthless)} "resource sink" for the tokens after getting the parts and because DE are obsessed with the Fortuna NPCs.

Edited June 12, 2020 by OvisCaedo

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Learicorn said:

I don't think anyone can blame a Tenno for not saving a captive if... They physically cannot do it at that point in time.

This was true at first. Definitely not true now that I'm stockpiling Crowns, because I've already done 20 Granum runs and haven't seen a single Protea part

But the real kicker is now I'm terrified of doing Sabotage missions in Public, because someone is just going to shove the fuel cell back in and blow up the ship, and I've got this stockpile of coins and have to weigh playing as a good person -- not letting all the Solaris explode -- versus actually keeping onto resources I need. Maybe if Pubs were more willing to do Magnetic sabotage, those Solaris dudes and dudettes will get rescued by scavengers sooner than later

[PookieNumnums]

I just say sorry about your luck as i zoom by them. 

On a more game effect related note, who even cares about them when you've obtained everything you want from them anyhow. 

Its not like there is a sustainable desire and reward beyond getting what you want, everything if youre mastery focused which i and many others are not. 

To me it's just a passive admittance that standing grinds are an arbitrary progression gate. And also that current methods while it is an obective are lacking greatly. 

Give us the ability to have live animals in our ship or dojo, and the ability to spend granum crowns for kuva, endo, rivens, forma and such, and open world standing grind tasks will seem more of a valuable asset to the game than a grind and forget mechanic. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by PookieNumnums

[Tilaria_Sturn]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Zahnny:

As you're probably aware, we can now rescue Solaris members on the new Corpus ship tilesets, and the tier of coin changes the amount of Standing you recieve. 300 for T1 coin and 900 for T3, assumingly 600 for T2 if this is consistant. This all sounds okay in practice right? Well, as you're probably aware, we can only get one Coin per mission, and there's typically more than one Solaris member in a mission. And we need these same coins to farm these new parts.

This now makes the Tenno look really questionable as even if you do want to save all of the Solaris in a mission, you can't unless you stock up on coins, and stocking up on coins implies there are missions where you've left Solaris to die or to be shelved.

I mentioned in Clan chat that imagine that there is a Syndicate mssion and you have the POV of a Solaris member in captivity. You witness a Warframe, a beacon of hope and saviors of the Origin system, and they just...pick up a medallion off the floor then leave you to your fate.

But wait! It gets worse. Someone else in Clan chat mentioned Corpus Sabotage. Where we make a ship go Critical to Freeze into dead space, Snuff itself out in flame or face total life support failure from hazardous magnetic activity.

Yeah...This isn't entirely a good look. If that was the intent of adding some moral ambiguity to the Tenno then, fair enough. But it kinda paints an awful picture of the Tenno.

Mass-murdering, borderline genocidal child-soldiers who are taking orders from a convict turned pseudo AI imitating their not-mother without questioning after they´ve backstabbed and slaughtered an entire species resulting in centuries of war while they have their siesta are morally questionable? No way...

[(PSN)robotwars7]

that's war for you; not everybody can be saved, and sometimes you're given the awful decision of who you want to save. to be fair, this was already a thing with Ticker, unless you have the resources to buy all his bonds in one go. if not, you have to choose, and you'll likely. pick the one that gives the most Standing worth of Bonds. Greg the Furnace guy didn't deserve to get brain shelved, but he was only worth a few Hundred Standing...

when you also consider the life of a Solaris: endless labour, crippling debt, and not even having a real body, you question whether or not death might be a better alternative when your fate is tied to the Corpus. better dead than the taxman's Shelf, right? best you can do is make it quick.

 

[PookieNumnums]

8 minutes ago, Tilaria_Sturn said:

Mass-murdering, borderline genocidal child-soldiers who are taking orders from a convict turned pseudo AI imitating their not-mother without questioning after they´ve backstabbed and slaughtered an entire species resulting in centuries of war while they have their siesta are morally questionable? No way...

My operator is a total sweetheart i dunno what you're on about. 

 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

53 minutes ago, Tilaria_Sturn said:

Mass-murdering, borderline genocidal child-soldiers who are taking orders from a convict turned pseudo AI imitating their not-mother without questioning after they´ve backstabbed and slaughtered an entire species resulting in centuries of war while they have their siesta are morally questionable? No way...

Same can be said about the other factions the difference is that they kill anyone we kill their soldiers only. The Orokin were horrible killing them was basically a favor to everyone

[3rdpig]

The Tenno are mercenary soldiers, they don't even understand the war they're fighting. Their boss points her finger, says "Kill" and they kill without question.

Some of you will call that "morally ambiguous", others will call it "evil". 

I'll call it a video game and say "Chill and have fun".

[0_The_F00l]

They are collateral ,

Cant save everyone *jumps into pool made of and filled with coins*

[XaoGarrent]

Considering the Tenno are a hurricane of Corpus death, I'm not even sure why we need to collect coins and personally rescue them to begin with. It would be more time efficient to just blow through the place like a lawnmower on cocaine and then call a team of Tenno aligned operatives to come in after and do cleanup. I suspect that's what frequently happens anyway, because why let a perfectly good corpus capital ship go unstripped?

26 minutes ago, 3rdpig said:

The Tenno are mercenary soldiers, they don't even understand the war they're fighting. Their boss points her finger, says "Kill" and they kill without question.

Some of you will call that "morally ambiguous", others will call it "evil". 

I'll call it a video game and say "Chill and have fun".

You do realize that some of Lotus' Invasion VOs completely and totally destroy this narrative, right? And their alignment with Vox Solaris in general craps all over it. The debter's colony in Fortuna doesn't really offer the Tenno much they can't get elsewhere, at least not from a lore perspective. Truth is, we're entangled with them largely because Nef is a giant scumbag running a cult, and literally everyone outside the Corpus hates his guts for how much a horrible piece of trash he is. It's pretty damn moral.

Edited June 13, 2020 by XaoGarrent

[Caidezes]

The Tenno are not superheroes. Hell, doesn't one of the very first missions give you the option to help out or just extract? That should have told you everything you needed to know about where they stand.

Just because they fight worse factions, it doesn't mean the Tenno are paragons of virtue. They aren't even adults.

[Librus_107]

Would be nice if you could just bust them out - no coin involved - and get some little consolation reward instead of standing (like debt bonds or something). Or even have a sort of "hidden cache" thing during some missions where there's a hidden switch somewhere on the map that sets every single Solaris that spawned free - and gives you a rare item as thanks. 

Morals in terms of story aside - I can't help but feel a little guilty every time I stumble across one and can't pay up.

[Aazhyd]

Granum Void costs 1 coin per group. Each player can get 1 coin per match. So if you just keep playing in groups, the amount of coins will go up and up. 

Nice that we now have a mechanic for excess coins.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Aazhyd

[Tilaria_Sturn]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb (XB1)C11H22O11:

Same can be said about the other factions the difference is that they kill anyone we kill their soldiers only. The Orokin were horrible killing them was basically a favor to everyone

I think the Tenno are the only ones who actually eradicated one and a half species ( Do Dex count as a species?). You are killing civilians, too. Like those Grineer workers who are not hostile towards you when you run past them in missions. 

A favor to everyone would be the extinction of the Grineer. That would end the war in the Origin System and it would serve as an example to the Corpus. The Tenno could keep them in line very easyly and force them to use their industrial infrastructure for the common good. Reinforce the civil colonies and the Corpus fleet to be more effective against a Sentient invasion...

There are many ways the Tenno could go but is there a morally perfect one? Maybe, depends on your moral code. But I think there wouldn´t be much of a game left then.

And murdering murderers without any form of law behind your action or any form of trial etc does make you a murderer, too. You can´t justify your own misbehaviours with the classic "Everyone else does it as well"

[ILOHARTA]

did we really require that to question Tenno's morality?

[prodi1600]

From a game perspective its a great way to farm easy rep with solaris, from a human perspective andforgetting this its a game, yes its pretty hard and left you in a bad spot morally speaking.

1 - you cant save them all.

2 - they all "are sure" you're there to save them.

3 - They don't even know how to free themselves, misleading you into think that there's another way to set them free rather than the slot machine, leaving you in a worst moral ground since that proof  they are truly innocent people.

4 - They even root for you when youre killing corpus units near them. 😢

I have been avoiding them since I'm not done with protea systems farm, and do feel bad when they interact with me because I just wont save them.

Edited June 13, 2020 by prodi1600

[GrayArchon]

There's a mission in the tutorial (Vor's Prize) where you get the choice to extract and allow a ship of colonists get wiped out, or stay a little bit to destroy the reactor and save the colonists. The Lotus pushes you to ignore the colonists. The game sets the tone literally from the start.

[Marvelous_A]

14 hours ago, Katinka said:

I'm puzzled why I need to spend a coin at all when the guy shouts "The switch is over there!".  Maybe we should have an option to free them without spending coins for 0 standing?  I'm really not sure why we get different amounts for the different coins anyway.  Is it not spent?  Is it instead donated to the guy who may then have a better chance at survival if we gave him a better coin?  I just don't get it.

Just thought about how a rescue mission must look, running past all these guys like "Not you!".

^

Why ask for the coin in the first place?