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My opinion on the new primary Kitguns


DemoHellsword
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For my part, i am conflicted on 2 things : The mechanics of the primary Kitguns and their stats.

1) The Rattleguts : This weapon hasn't really changed much compared to the secondary counterpart. In terms of mechanics, the primary Kitgun is an exact copy with particle changes to make it look more impactful. In terms of stats, it is quite similar to the original. I would argue it is worse because the damage is still low and it was a pain to level up, but it might just be me. I think a bigger magazine size as well as a firerate increase as long as you fire (Like a minigun) would be interesting. It doesn't need much more than that (Except maybe a little damage boost). Just like its counterpart, a status build is quite good, but some people can also build it Hunter Munitions and viral to make it better on end-game missions.

2) The Tombfinger : The single-target crit monster has been changed to a lesser opticor with more radial explosion range. Because of the rifle mods, the Tombfinger receives quite the nerf in its damage output AND critical builds. The weapon in itself does little damage, but a charged shot can be quite powerful. The Tombfinger seems to have less impact and, most of all, less damage as you ramp up formas on it. In conclusion, the mechanic of the weapon seems cool enough for me, but it needs better stats to counter the fact that the non-charged shots are really bad and the charged shots do okay-ish damage.

3) The Gaze : Probably the most disappointing weapon for me. The Gaze is overall MUCH weaker than its pistol counterpart, again, due to its rifle mods. For the mechanic, the weapon releases an AOE when touching the enemy or at max range, dealing damage around it. This mechanic is weaker than the secondary weapon due to the range of the AOE being not so good and the fact that the Gaze Secondary is basically like the Amprex. As for the statistics, i am sad to see that the Gaze is really weak compared to the pistol variant. A status-based Gaze would probably be a good status applier (Just like the ancient Tysis), but not much more than that. For my part, i tried to make a critical based Gaze with Viral and Hunter Munitions. The damage is quite interesting, but without some little buffs here and there, i don't think it will be enough for this weapon to be used much. As for the mechanics, i think increasing the AOE range would be extremely profitable.

4) The Catchmoon : The weapon i thought was going to be terrible, and ended up being more fun than its original version (Despite being weak). Yes, you probably thought that the weapon was going to be a beast in damage just like the pre-nerf version. But nope, it's not. For the mechanic, the Catchmoon has a smaller projectile, but it becomes a full-auto shotgun, making it quite interesting. In terms of stats however, the weapon is lacking in reload time and maybe in mag size. I think the better variant for this one would be a status one despite people thinking that a Crit Catchmoon should be the higher DPS. I still built it as a critical shotgun because i have a Riven that i will try to reroll as critical chance one, but a status one should be better without riven mods and should also provide the damage you need. I think the Catchmoon primary Kitgun needs more critical chances to counter the fact that the critical chance mod for shotguns is not enough to warrant a crit version of the weapon.

 

What are your thoughts about my analysis AND your experience with these new kitguns ?

EDIT 1 : I tested them in the Simulacrum for ample analysis, and here's my experience with the kitguns :

- The Rattleguts is still lacking serious damage and even with the biggest damage grip, despite using a firerate-increasing Warframe and modding it for viral or corrosive. I think it will get buffed eventually or this weapon will be forgotten (Can't even kill lvl 30 bombards with a full mag sometimes).

- The Tombfinger deal some mad crit slash procs when using a Viral / Hunter Munition build. I thought it would still be okay-ish, but test this build and see their health depleting after 3/4 shots. And THIS is with an unranked guilded gun.

- The Catchmoon is lacking damage for the crit variant, i can't even imagine the status variant. I think this one will have to be buffed to be useful in end-game missions.

- The Gaze is okay-ish with a Viral + Hunter Munition build, which announces the color of this weapon's crit variant. Even with a riven, the heaviest grip and heavy crit multipliers, it still takes around 30 ammo (6-10 seconds) to down a 140 Grineer corrupt heavy artillery, and IF you have luck on your side.

Edited by DemoHellsword
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Am personally enjoying the tombfinger primary kitgun.

Lost my eyesight to the Gaze primary kitgun.
(like, fking hell DE, I can't see s*** and the range is extremely low when building for damage. This thing spends more time blinding you than attacking enemies...)

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il y a 11 minutes, Aadi880 a dit :

Am personally enjoying the tombfinger primary kitgun.

Lost my eyesight to the Gaze primary kitgun.
(like, fking hell DE, I can't see s*** and the range is extremely low when building for damage. This thing spends more time blinding you than attacking enemies...)

I also like what they've done with the Tombfinger, but i think it still needs a little something to make it more appealing. And yeah, the Gaze's range is really, REALLY low with the max damage grip, and the damage output is quite mediocre in exchange for the blinding light that burns your eyes

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hace 53 minutos, DemoHellsword dijo:

For my part, i am conflicted on 2 things : The mechanics of the primary Kitguns and their stats.

1) The Rattleguts : This weapon hasn't really changed much compared to the secondary counterpart. In terms of mechanics, the primary Kitgun is an exact copy with particle changes to make it look more impactful. In terms of stats, it is quite similar to the original. I would argue it is worse because the damage is still low and it was a pain to level up, but it might just be me. I think a bigger magazine size as well as a firerate increase as long as you fire (Like a minigun) would be interesting. It doesn't need much more than that (Except maybe a little damage boost). Just like its counterpart, a status build is quite good, but some people can also build it Hunter Munitions and viral to make it better on end-game missions.

2) The Tombfinger : The single-target crit monster has been changed to a lesser opticor with more radial explosion range. Because of the rifle mods, the Tombfinger receives quite the nerf in its damage output AND critical builds. The weapon in itself does little damage, but a charged shot can be quite powerful. The Tombfinger seems to have less impact and, most of all, less damage as you ramp up formas on it. In conclusion, the mechanic of the weapon seems cool enough for me, but it needs better stats to counter the fact that the non-charged shots are really bad and the charged shots do okay-ish damage.

3) The Gaze : Probably the most disappointing weapon for me. The Gaze is overall MUCH weaker than its pistol counterpart, again, due to its rifle mods. For the mechanic, the weapon releases an AOE when touching the enemy or at max range, dealing damage around it. This mechanic is weaker than the secondary weapon due to the range of the AOE being not so good and the fact that the Gaze Secondary is basically like the Amprex. As for the statistics, i am sad to see that the Gaze is really weak compared to the pistol variant. A status-based Gaze would probably be a good status applier (Just like the ancient Tysis), but not much more than that. For my part, i tried to make a critical based Gaze with Viral and Hunter Munitions. The damage is quite interesting, but without some little buffs here and there, i don't think it will be enough for this weapon to be used much. As for the mechanics, i think increasing the AOE range would be extremely profitable.

4) The Catchmoon : The weapon i thought was going to be terrible, and ended up being more fun than its original version (Despite being weak). Yes, you probably thought that the weapon was going to be a beast in damage just like the pre-nerf version. But nope, it's not. For the mechanic, the Catchmoon has a smaller projectile, but it becomes a full-auto shotgun, making it quite interesting. In terms of stats however, the weapon is lacking in reload time and maybe in mag size. I think the better variant for this one would be a status one despite people thinking that a Crit Catchmoon should be the higher DPS. I still built it as a critical shotgun because i have a Riven that i will try to reroll as critical chance one, but a status one should be better without riven mods and should also provide the damage you need. I think the Catchmoon primary Kitgun needs more critical chances to counter the fact that the critical chance mod for shotguns is not enough to warrant a crit version of the weapon.

 

What are your thoughts about my analysis AND your experience with these new kitguns ?

What do you think is the best for Primary Gaze? I tested with a mark point on the same enemy.

Distance to deal effective damage:

Brash = 18 m.

Shrewd= 15 m.

Critcal damage without being templed or mods: 

Brash = 44.

Shrewd= 47.

 

I didn't try the Tremor or the other one because that lowest range is unacceptable. Do you think the difference between Brash and Shrewd will be so big with the weapon templed and full moded? Or is ok?

Edited by Piimpollo
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I loved this tombfinger primary. Fun and balanced.

The problem with gaze is the range...too low when compared with pistol version.

Catchmoon suffers at high lvls but just need a little buff or one more projectile.

Rattleguts im lvling right now...

 

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Just updated my analysis with some testing in the Simulacrum. Hope it helps you and thanks for your interest in the new kitgun weapons !

Il y a 6 heures, Piimpollo a dit :

What do you think is the best for Primary Gaze? I tested with a mark point on the same enemy.

Distance to deal effective damage:

Brash = 18 m.

Shrewd= 15 m.

Critcal damage without being templed or mods: 

Brash = 44.

Shrewd= 47.

 

I didn't try the Tremor or the other one because that lowest range is unacceptable. Do you think the difference between Brash and Shrewd will be so big with the weapon templed and full moded? Or is ok?

Honestly, i think the Gaze should be modded with crit and Viral + Hunter Munition to even do something in later levels of the Star chart. As for the damage after being fully modded, i think the difference will not be drastically changed. Honestly, the damage output difference is so minimal it won't be too bad between those two. Either way, the range will make you able to stay out of range of dangerous enemies, but you will take a couple of magazines to get through them. Unfortunately, i took the maximal damage grip, and even with this one, i'm still searching for a way to make it more viable (While putting the gun on their forehead and getting the same result as a water pistol...)

Edited by DemoHellsword
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I can kinda understand why DE want to be conservative in tuning new weapons, especially after the Bramma fiasco. If you release things too strong at the beginning people are gonna be very resistant to any nerfs.  

I just hope they buff the primary kitgun soon because they are underwhelming as they are right now. Had expected the rattlegut to be a good assault rifle, but turns out its as bad as most other assault rifles.  

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il y a 7 minutes, Bakaguya-sama a dit :

I can kinda understand why DE want to be conservative in tuning new weapons, especially after the Bramma fiasco. If you release things too strong at the beginning people are gonna be very resistant to any nerfs.  

I just hope they buff the primary kitgun soon because they are underwhelming as they are right now. Had expected the rattlegut to be a good assault rifle, but turns out its as bad as most other assault rifles.  

Oh yeah, the OP Bramma problem was dumb in terms of tuning from DE, but the players were just as dumb for thinking that a weapon this strong was not getting nerf. This was the same problem as the Catchmoon, but on actual steroids.

As for the Rattlegut, i understand you fully since i was waiting for this gun myself : I have a status and firerate-based Rattleguts with 100% status chance and 22.70 firerate which annihilates armored unites, but the primary counterpart is worse than an unmodded Gorgon in terms of feeling AND damage dealing, and that's saying something.

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I built a Crit-based Rattleguts with Hunter Munitions. It's okay, but definitely does not feel quite as strong as my pistol, which is different in only the grip. My Pistol has Zipneedle/Lovetap with a cold/crit chance riven, and my Primary has Zipneedle/Steadyslam with a multishot/damage riven. The Pistol feels just right, but the primary NEEDS hunter munitions and even then still feels a bit weak. I'm really hoping for a small damage buff 😞

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  • 10 months later...
21 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

Jesus whats with the necromancy lately. 

I think its something wrong with the forums.

when I view from my PC, I see current threads.

But If I view from my phone, something goes all funky with the thread timestamp sorting and I see all kinds of outdated topics on my first page.

Wouldn't surprise me if different people also have this kinda problem depending on what browser they use.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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