Why did parvos not get a prime protea?

[(XBOX)Cyrex XIII]

Parvos made a deal with the orokin and gained protea as a bodyguard but why isnt she a prime version of her? 

[Ender140]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Why would we get an Inaros Prime? No Inaros Prime was buried there

I'm sorry, why would it not be Inaros Prime?

[Lutesque]

Because weaving Lore to match Game Design in a Free To Play game is not easy... its not impossible but you should never ever expect it to happen.

Atleast she got her own Quest... been a while since we had one of those. 

[TARINunit9]

8 hours ago, Ender140 said:

I'm sorry, why would it not be Inaros Prime?

Because the God-King of the Sand People was Inaros not-Prime. That's who showed up on the planet

[Ender140]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Because the God-King of the Sand People was Inaros not-Prime. That's who showed up on the planet

Inaros Prime was the only Inaros... We call the Primes as such because they're at their best condition. If you go to Baro with Inaros Prime he freaks out because Inaros Prime IS HIS GOD KING that he recognize.

[OmegaVoid]

I'm taking as canon the statement referenced earlier in the thread:

"Prime Warframes, Weapons and Sentinels are actual pieces of Ancient Orokin technology. [...] Non-Prime Warframes, Weapons and Sentinels are based on Orokin technology, however they are not genuine Orokin articles."

That's what we're discussing, isn't it? Whether there is canon evidence to directly contradict that.

In all cases where the Warframe in a Quest is established categorically to have been Orokin-made or the service of the Orokin, it has been destroyed (Mirage, Titania, Gara) and is not depicted in the Quest.

In the cases of Nidus and Octavia, the fate of the originals is not explored; we are simply given blueprints by the Myconian colonists/Cephalon Suda.

Where the Warframe is encountered in a Quest and is non-Prime, it has been established as having been either separated from the Orokin (Inaros, Protea, Revenant) or has unestablished provenence (Harrow, Mesa, Chroma). Any repairs and replacements made to those Warframes would have come from non-Orokin sources.

So for the canonically Orokin-made Inaros, Protea and Revenant we need to establish means, motive, and opportunity for the Warframe to have been modified after it left Orokin service, and before we encounter it in the relevant Quest.

15 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Um, Citation Needed?

In the Sands of Inaros transcript we have: "Inaros began not as our king, but as our enemy; a warrior of the Golden Skymen."

The Inaros first seen on Mars was a minion of the Orokin, ergo was Inaros Prime.

The Inaros immortalised in stone by the colonists he'd protected, and the Inaros we eventually revivify as the Tomb Protector, was observably non-Prime. Ergo at least the Orokin-made Prime parts, if the not the entire Warframe, had to have been replaced.

Is there any indication that the Prime may have been damaged and need partial or complete replacement?

"By the sand and stars, the Skymen raged. They set upon Inaros with their armies but none could prevail, for he commanded the sand, he commanded death."

I'd say yes. Canonically, the original Titania was completely destroyed by Dax troops, so while Inaros prevailed against "armies" of them, I'd consider it doubtful he did so unscathed.

This reconciles the presence of a non-Prime Inaros in the quest with "Non-Prime Warframes are not genuine Orokin articles." The original Prime Inaros which the Orokin deployed to Mars had to be partially or wholly replaced.

I'll add that if any tech systems in a Warfame are built into the armour and need to function as an integrated whole (e.g. the shield system, perhaps, among others), piecemeal replacement of Orokin parts with non-Orokin wouldn't be viable if the different technologies used were incompatible in any way. (As an IRL analogy, you can't just plug DMX fixtures into a DALI-controlled lighting rig. There's... probably a more everyday analogy, but that's the one which springs to mind. 😊) Complete destruction is not necessarily required to necessitate complete replacement of the armour.

Worth mentioning here, in Vor's Prize, the Ascaris which is identified as Corpus-based tech is able to control the shields of the player's non-Prime starter 'frame.

15 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Isn't it just far more likely that the Orokin just gave him Protea not-Prime?

Since the original Protea was given by the Orokin to an outside agency, it is possible as you say that they made an exception to their normal manufacturing practices, and deliberately created a downgraded version. Though I'm a little dubious on a couple of counts.

Regressing to a previously dead tier of tech is not always as straightforward as you might expect -- once your manufacturing has completely gone over to state-of-the-art stuff, it can be difficult to find anyone who remembers quite how the clunky old-fashioned stuff was done.

And what is special about Warframes comes from some rather vaguely-defined interaction of Void energy with the Helminth strain of the Infestation. None of the manufactured elements of a Warframe -- the armour and tech -- are suggested in the lore to have been revolutionary.

Orokin military tech is a rarity nowadays, but back in the Old War it'd have been everywhere. So for the Orokin to go out of their way to downgrade tech which the Corpus would anyway have seen before doesn't seem likely to me.

Also, Parvos Granum was a sharp customer, and he would certainly have known what Orokin-made products looked like.

If he's expecting something like this...

Spoiler

...and you give him something like this...

Spoiler

...I think he'd notice the difference. I just don't see Parvos Granum happily accepting an observably non-Orokin-tech Warframe from the Orokin.

Yet the Spectre we see in The Deadlock Protocol was observably not created from an Orokin-made Protea Prime. Her armour is visibly non-Orokin. This calls for a plausible explantion, and I provided three.

Well, with Protea you can take it either way. The Orokin could have given Granum a Prime which he later refitted with Corpus-made armour.

Or the Orokin could have given him a downgraded Protea, but also created Protea Prime parts because they expected to later get her back and use her in their own service.

Either way would explain why the Protea Spectre we see in the Quest was made from a non-Prime, and either would explain why we will inevitably be able eventually to retrieve Protea Prime parts from Orokin relics. 🙂

[TARINunit9]

@OmegaVoid

I'm not on desktop, so I can't crop your post right now, but

By your own admission, the Stone Statues in Inaros's tomb are not Prime. Ergo the Inaros who was actually there was not Prime. And as much as it disgusts me to do this, look at the line "a warrior of the Golden Skymen" again. Doe sit say that Inaros was golden? No, just that the Skymen were

I'm not going to claim "Inaros not-Prime came first" this time because it's irrelevant. My point is, the Inaros who defended the Sand People was a not-Prime.

It's like trying to argue "the Myconians in Glast Gambit were wagering a Nidus Prime but the game could only give you Nidus not-Prime because Nidus Prime doesn't exist yet." No, they were wagering Nidus not-Prime

This goes for you too @Ender140

[Ender140]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Because they show you exactly what it is. In the game and the lore, Prime blueprints and non-Prime blueprints are very different things, as I will demonstrate later in this post...

I did that on purpose, to show Drussus would be showing Prime parts if the excavations in question had any Prime parts. But they don't, so he doesn't. Ergo, non-Prime parts were excavated. But now for what I promised Ender:

Our scanning capabilities are so powerful, that if we scan a Prime we get a Prime

I mean look at how we scanned Excalibur Umbra. We scanned his SCARF, and we got this Umbra Blueprint. Keep in mind, the blueprint very clearly states "Umbra" BEFORE we get the Vitruvian. So your entire theory of "Ordis automatically turns damaged or incomplete Prime blueprints into non-Prime blueprints because he doesn't have Orokin-era components" doesn't hold water (unless you're going to say that Umbras are soooooooo inferior compared to Primes). I will not entertain it as an argument or theory, I'm sorry to say

Except Umbra wasn't destroyed for hundreds of years and so his still mostly complete. Can you not ignore my previous points?

Also we didn't scan just his scarf. In fact we even get the Vitruvian. Yes it says Umbra in the foundry. Because you and Ordis already know his name. Be pretty dumb to already know his name is Umbra and call him "unknown frame". Not only did you scan his recently destroyed body, but even get a detailed look on his Vitruvian. Without it Ordis couldn't complete Umbra. I mean he probably could just improvise with a base Excalibur blueprint. But that would've resulted to a weaker Umbra

The way you get Umbra is closer to relics. Preserved in time. Except his relic was Lua. He wasn't destroyed and kept in mint condition until ballas came in. If he got destroyed the same time as the Primes, we probably would've gotten a weaker version of Umbra.

[Marine027]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb sonyseva6055:

In the web-tease for the sacrifice quest you could see that umbra was nicknamed 8th meaning there are 7 more umbras before him

 

vor 34 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)ShadowBlood89:

nekrosing a nearly 1 year old topic

And an on top outdated info, they wanted to make more Umbras but scratched that idea really quick, like many things DE plans sadly. A lot not makes the cut or gets forgotten and buried and never touched again. I would today not rely on anything people see, hear or get told by them now, I used to love this game, but my love tuned down after several updates and questionable choices about things like gameplay and story.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

10 hours ago, sonyseva6055 said:

In the web-tease for the sacrifice quest you could see that umbra was nicknamed 8th meaning there are 7 more umbras before him

nekrosing a nearly 1 year old topic

[Sevenus.]

On 2020-06-14 at 4:02 PM, (XBOX)Cyrex XIII said:

I can agree with your second point but the first point with the 8 umbras? I don't know where you got that from. The first umbra was made from a dax soldier who was spying on ballas. 

In the web-tease for the sacrifice quest you could see that umbra was nicknamed 8th meaning there are 7 more umbras before him

[Ender140]

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The devs confirmed it when they released it: Gersemi Valkyr is a recreation of what Valkyr not-Prime looked like before Alad captured her

Thing is I'm not sure she isn't somewhat of a Prime. If she really is the Valkyr that's been captured, then we now have 3 versions of Valkyr. Prime, Gersemini and Base.

The only other frame I know that has more than 2 versions is Excalibur. Prime, Umbra and Base. Umbra is more or less a unofficial Prime. Has the same stats but different transference bolt.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Ender140 said:

Whose Gersemi and where did you get that info?

Edit: Found it and it's a skin... not sure what I would classify a skin as

The devs confirmed it when they released it: Gersemi Valkyr is a recreation of what Valkyr not-Prime looked like before Alad captured her

[Ender140]

10 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Alad captured Gersemi, not Valkyr Prime. Gersemi is a non-Prime

Whose Gersemi and where did you get that info?

Edit: Found it and it's a skin... not sure what I would classify a skin as

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Ender140 said:

The only case of a living Prime being captured by a faction(In my knowledge) is Valkyr Prime. Which was heavily experimented, disected, detached, reattached and eventually turned to the Zanuka. Which is far from her original form, Valkyr Prime. So either way, she was also destroyed. Not only destroyed but also tortured.

Alad captured Gersemi, not Valkyr Prime. Gersemi is a non-Prime

[Ender140]

2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Parvos really... wasn't that influential. He wasn't really promoted to Orokin.

Remember that Parvos got his hand chopped off by the authorities. Both historically and in the lore, this is used to mark a man as a thief for life. He got a loan from an Orokin bank, but he himself did not have Orokin citizenship

I have no reason to believe the Orokin actually liked Parvos -- in fact, there's an audiolog where Parvos says the Orokin tried to kill him with Warframes at one point -- but after a while they had to tolerate him for political reasons, and traded him a Protea Warframe. I'm 100% convinced the Orokin are passive-aggressive enough to give him a non-Prime just to spite him

Huh... that does sound like what the Orokins would do. For a supposedly advanced civilization, I can picture them petty enough to downgrade a frame made to save their asses out of pettiness.

The none primes are supposedly the more common version of the warframes. If the none primes came first, then that would mean the later batches would've been the Primes. Making them supposedly more common than the none primes. Which still wouldn't hold up. To be able to aquire the remains of rarer and original none Primes but not the more common Primes.

If say the none Primes did go first, then Protea none prime parts would be rarer as the Orokins would've stopped creating inferior models for their war efforts.

If the Primes came first, I can see the Orokins being petty enough to downgrade a particular frame to give to Parvos. But instead of mass producing them, they would just downgrade 1 Protea warframe.

As dumb as the Orokin may appear like; they are cunning technicians. Which is why I belive the Prime's parts just naturally deteriorate as time pass. For them to create a non-Prime Inaros to abduct kids when they could just as easily create a Prime Version of it sound really dumb. Like us the Tenno, resources isn't much of our problem. It's just the blueprints, which the Orokin have anyways.

If this Inaros is the original and also is a non prime. Then the corpse of the next gen Inaros(Prime) would've been found just as likely eventually. Which would be great since the drops from bosses wouldn't be the base warframe, but the primes if they did get their hands on warframes. Since in this scenario both the base and the Primes wouldn't deteriorate even after it's been destroyed. It's just time until one of the Prime corpses would've been found. 

The only case of a living Prime being captured by a faction(In my knowledge) is Valkyr Prime. Which was heavily experimented, disected, detached, reattached and eventually turned to the Zanuka. Which is far from her original form, Valkyr Prime. So either way, she was also destroyed. Not only destroyed but also tortured.

[VoidArkhangel]

Quick explanation: Primes were the warframes deployed on the old war, the name tells it (Prime wich bassically means first), like almost everything in the tenno arsenal, the first wave of operating warframes were the primes and, after the old war, the knowledge of their building process was lost. For reasons we don't know, the warframes lost their power and their "prime accesories" but I suppose it was because of the decay from the time (in the majority of cases).

The Protea we see in the void is an spectre of the original since she needed her entire power to maintain Parvos so I suppose that much like Harrow, the amount of effort withered her.

[TARINunit9]

8 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

If the primes are in fact seperate, there's a plot hole with why Parvos would be having a none prime of the warframe when the primes exist. Parvos is also influencial to the Orokin empire. If Ordis was honored enough to the point of getting promoted to an Orokin; I think it's fair to assume the founder of Corpus would have to. The Orokins being one of the richest most influencial race would have enough to build more primes than the tennos have.

Parvos really... wasn't that influential. He wasn't really promoted to Orokin.

Remember that Parvos got his hand chopped off by the authorities. Both historically and in the lore, this is used to mark a man as a thief for life. He got a loan from an Orokin bank, but he himself did not have Orokin citizenship

I have no reason to believe the Orokin actually liked Parvos -- in fact, there's an audiolog where Parvos says the Orokin tried to kill him with Warframes at one point -- but after a while they had to tolerate him for political reasons, and traded him a Protea Warframe. I'm 100% convinced the Orokin are passive-aggressive enough to give him a non-Prime just to spite him

[Ender140]

On 2020-07-25 at 9:17 PM, TARINunit9 said:

That was actually explained in the uh... hang on which one was it... the Flux Rifle's weapon description:

"Laser Rifle with Corpus safe-guards removed."

We can't pick up Deras and Flux Rifles in the middle of a mission because they have special safety locks. So we have to use Dojo Research to build new ones without any safety locks

Obviously this explanation shouldn't work for Grineer weapons too, but it's the best explanation we're going to get

Um... no you can't! That's exactly WHY I keep arguing that Prime Blueprints and non-Prime Blueprints are distinct and separate in the lore as well as the game

But we don't get the Vitruvian until after the part I'm talking about. Ordis gives you an "Umbra Blueprint" BEFORE you get the Vitruvian

You know I feel all this arguing is pointless. I don't think even DE knows their own lore anymore. Hiding it as "mystery" when they really don't know what is which anymore.

If the primes are in fact seperate, there's a plot hole with why Parvos would be having a none prime of the warframe when the primes exist. Parvos is also influencial to the Orokin empire. If Ordis was honored enough to the point of getting promoted to an Orokin; I think it's fair to assume the founder of Corpus would have to. The Orokins being one of the richest most influencial race would have enough to build more primes than the tennos have.

If they are in fact withered versions of the Primes. Protea has still been stuck in time. Suggesting she was never a Prime to begin with. Like the relics, and Umbra's cage. She too was preserved in time.

If the none primes did came first, DE should've confirmed it. But while DE still hasn't officially retcon it, we assume the Primes came first. And if the Primes did came first, Titania that we dug should've been a Prime. If any frames were none primes, it would've been her guardians.

[OmegaVoid]

27 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

That was actually explained in the uh... hang on which one was it... the Flux Rifle's weapon description [...] We can't pick up Deras and Flux Rifles in the middle of a mission because they have special safety locks.

Ooh! I'd read that text, but interpreted "Laser Rifle with Corpus safe-guards removed" as indicating the Flux Rifle available to players is more powerful than the Corpus version due to having safety limiters disabled.

But unless we find lore showing some non-Corpus individual picking up and using a Corpus-owned weapon, I think you're probably right here.

Since Corpus use energy weapons, if it has enough energy to function, it should have enough energy to complete an IFF handshake. Passive ID chips implanted in the user's hands could be scanned by the weapon, or somesuch. The tech involved should be simple and reliable enough.

Similar for the Corrupted; in their case the headsets the Neural Sentry uses to control them could transmit the identifier to enable their weapons. That way, if the headset is damaged and the trooper passes out of the Neural Sentry's control, their weapon would be disabled at the same time.

35 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Obviously this explanation shouldn't work for Grineer weapons too

Maybe, maybe not. If the technology to lock a weapon to restricted users is common enough, anybody could be using it. Grineer aren't stone-age, they have tech, just not at the Corpus level.

Only downside for the Grineer is most of their weapons are ballistic. Adding user-locks would introduce a separate tech system which in case of failure might render a functional weapon inert, and I'm not sure I'd rely on the average Lancer to keep his battery charged. But we can consider it a possibility.

Extrapolating from there, it might be commonplace in the Origin System for tech-savvy owners to lock their weapons to themselves as individuals.

That would give a lore explanation for why in-game I can't pick up and use a weapon that's been knocked out of a fellow player's hands by a Drakh Master. 😃

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, OmegaVoid said:

The relationship of in-game inventory items to the lore basis is nebulous at best. Gameplay =/= lore, especially where inventory and crafting is concerned.

• in-game if I chop the head off a Grakata-wielding Lancer, I cannot pick up that weapon and take it back to my Orbiter.

 

That was actually explained in the uh... hang on which one was it... the Flux Rifle's weapon description:

"Laser Rifle with Corpus safe-guards removed."

We can't pick up Deras and Flux Rifles in the middle of a mission because they have special safety locks. So we have to use Dojo Research to build new ones without any safety locks

Obviously this explanation shouldn't work for Grineer weapons too, but it's the best explanation we're going to get

1 hour ago, OmegaVoid said:

• in-game, if you have a complete set of Rhino Prime blueprints in your inventory, you can craft a Rhino Prime from them, but not a non-Prime Rhino.

Um... no you can't! That's exactly WHY I keep arguing that Prime Blueprints and non-Prime Blueprints are distinct and separate in the lore as well as the game

9 hours ago, Ender140 said:

Also we didn't scan just his scarf. In fact we even get the Vitruvian.

But we don't get the Vitruvian until after the part I'm talking about. Ordis gives you an "Umbra Blueprint" BEFORE you get the Vitruvian

[OmegaVoid]

16 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

In the game and the lore, Prime blueprints and non-Prime blueprints are very different things

The relationship of in-game inventory items to the lore basis is nebulous at best. Gameplay =/= lore, especially where inventory and crafting is concerned.

• in-game if I chop the head off a Grakata-wielding Lancer, I cannot pick up that weapon and take it back to my Orbiter.

I dont think anyone would suggest that in lore a Tenno couldn't pick up, use, and keep a Grakata? The inability of a player to acquire a Grakata by any means other than crafting from a blueprint is clearly a game-design contrivance.

• in-game, if you have a complete set of Rhino Prime blueprints in your inventory, you can craft a Rhino Prime from them, but not a non-Prime Rhino.

This restriction exists for game-design reasons. It doesn't jibe with lore: given that a functionally-equivalent knockoff can be made using non-Orokin components, it makes little sense to suppose that anyone in possession of all the data necessary to craft the Prime version of a Warframe would be in lore unable to produce a downgraded copy.

• in-game if I have a Volt Blueprint in my inventory, and I craft a Volt from it, the Volt Blueprint disappears from my inventory.

In lore, how would using blueprint data to craft an item compel the Tenno to delete the reference data afterwards? This is clearly a game-specific contrivance. It makes no sense as lore.

In lore we must suppose that when a Tenno has acquired sufficient data to craft an item, they would thereafter be able to re-craft that item at will, provided they had sufficient raw materials -- the only exception being items beyond the Tenno foundry's crafting capabilities, to wit: certain Orokin technology.

• in-game if we open a Neo B3 Relic, we may get a Rhino Prime Systems Blueprint added to our inventory. In lore, is blueprint data all that is retrieved from the Void Relic?

Going by the statement "Prime Warframes, Weapons and Sentinels are actual pieces of Ancient Orokin technology", the answer has to be: no, we also retrieve all the original Orokin-made components necessary to assemble those Rhino Prime systems.

They aren't represented in our in-game inventory because that would be redundant -- when we in-game use the Rhino Prime Systems Blueprint asset, those parts would be consumed by being integrated together into the completed Rhino Prime Systems we receive at the end of the crafting anyway.

So there's no reason to clutter up our in-game inventory with things like "Orokin shield-emitter node x486", "Orokin Void-energy capacitor x6" or "Orokin integrated trinary logic and power control module x4"  in between obtaining the Prime Systems Blueprint asset and the act of crafting.

That being the case, we have no reason to assume that an asset named "Rhino Prime Blueprint" is not necessarily limited to schematic diagrams of the Warframe's physical construction. It may also include data such as control codes and authorisations required to activate and use the Warframe. It may include original Orokin-made Prime parts not represented in our inventory, just as the Rhino Prime Systems Blueprint implicity does.

For game design reasons, inventory and crafting requirements need only bear a vague relationship to the lore (and in the case of the Grakata example they seem to go against common sense!); we should not take these as canon.

In lore, the Myconians give us data which contributes to the Tenno being able to create a knockoff Nidus. There is nothing forcing us to believe that the ultimate source of that data was not either Nidus Prime, or Orokin records relating to Nidus Prime.

Nothing in the Glast Gambit quest compels me to believe that the Orokin created any Nidus other than Nidus Prime.

[OmegaVoid]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Not strictly true. In fact, completely false

When you first put Excalibur Umbra on, for a second or two his helmet is intact. He then breaks it himself when he ejects your Z-kid

Reviewing that link, I'm inclined to agree with you on this point.

The way the Quest goes from the normal in-game Arsenal interface into the lore cutscene makes it less than clear. Because the player doesn't receive the Sunder Helmet asset until the end of the Quest, Umbra has to be depicted in the UI with his default helmet. And I don't consider the UI to be canon.

If the flash of light is when the cutscene takes over from the UI (which is how I'd interpreted it when I played the Quest), the helmet is broken from the start of the lore section.

But I think you're probably right, the player is intended to consider the sundered helmet to be a result of the rejected Transference.

Personally, my attention was grabbed more by the way the helmet repairs itself. Excal Umbra has no healing abilities, so is that a normal thing for a Warframe to do? Or is it done by nanotech used in the crafting/repair process which is still present because Umbra has just come out of the oven?

Maybe he just has Rejuvenation slotted. 😆

So the helmet isn't the clincher I though it was. Thanks.

It still doesn't change the fact that we are not depicted in-game bringing/sending the "scarf" to our Orbiter, but it is still there when Umbra is activated -- despite obviously not being part of the Warframe. Which means anything else that Tenno found could also have been brought back, undepicted.

Excalibur Umbra may therefore have not been a from-scratch build, but a case of

• creating a new host
• repairing the original manufactured parts
• integrating the two

We cannot rule out that possibility.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Ender140 said:

The cinematic trailer also had Excalibur one shot a ship with a bow. It's a trailer for warframe for beginners. Exaggeration might've come to play. And because their for new people, the 3 begginer frames were the ones shown

There's a difference between "exaggerating what the player can do" and "lying to the player about the story". You would also have to say Glast Gambit quest is non-canon, because it also says that Nidus not-Prime existed in the Old War

(actually that's a bad example, since 80% of that quest is terrible anyway)

[Ender140]

8 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

@Ender140 So the reason we disagree is that you don't think non-Primes existed during the Old War at all. According to the Cinematic Trailer though, they did. Primes and non-Primes existed concurrently.

Now you have asked "Why? Why would Orokin bother making non-Primes at all?" Well, that's where the common theory of "the lore was rewritten since 2014, and Primes actually came last" comes in

@OmegaVoid There's a tiny error in your recollection of Glast Gambit, but it's an irrelevant nitpick as long as we both agree "Nidus non-Prime was with them since the Old War". As for Inaros, the notion of "Inaros Prime was so damaged he degraded into a non-Prime" doesn't sit well with me because a) it feels like a violation of Occam's Razor to me, and b) we're made to believe Tenno in general just curb-stomp the living hell out of Orokin foot soldiers; they would have barely damaged him at all, much less to a degree that's irreparable

The cinematic trailer also had Excalibur one shot a ship with a bow. It's a trailer for warframe for beginners. Exaggeration might've come to play. And because their for new people, the 3 begginer frames were the ones shown

[TARINunit9]

@OmegaVoid Well since you insist: Timestamp 43:45. Glast explicitly says the Myconians, not us and not himself, are wagering Nidus. And he explicitly says that it dates back to the Old War. And the game itself explicitly says that it is NOT Nidus Prime

This is definitive proof, even if it's just to satisfy gameplay restrictions, that non-Primes and Primes existed concurrently

I do retract my statement about the curb stomp though. I have rethought that specific argument and realized it doesn't hold water