Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

If For Whatever Reason You Had To Pick Three Others As Starters?


Arlayn
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hypothetically If for whatever reason Excalibur, Mag, and Loki could not be the starter warframes anymore. Who do you think should be the new three starter warframes?

 

If I had to pick it would be

 

Volt

Ash

Trinity

Volt was the starting frame instead of Mag awhile back, but I agree it should be a starter especially given its relative weakness compared to similar damage-focused frames.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rhino, Trinity... And Excalibur still. 

Tank, Heals, Deeps. 

 

Deeps will be teh Nova since MPrime doubles all damage (so headshots deal 4x damage to most enemies).

If you are gonna put Rhino in there, might as well go all out face roll mode.

Edited by fatpig84
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Deeps will be teh Nova since MPrime doubles all damage (so headshots deal 4x damage to most enemies).

If you are gonna put Rhino in there, might as well go all out face roll mode.

Too much deeps. Deeps need new deeps to aspire to higher deeps hieghts. if you give them all the deeps out of the gate then the deeps are not as meaningful. 

Also Nova is kind of specialized/squishy. I think she's more of a graduated warframe. 

I think Rhino is actually a pretty balanced frame. All of his abilities are unique and useful. 

Edited by Acos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Volt as it stands he's not a good starter, but would serve to show the 'defense' role to newcomers with electric shield : but he really needs reworking (or await the armor 2.0 changes :D) as his real usefulness all but requires energy mods starters won't have, and his only true damage ability (Electric shield) is useful for it's 50% damage buff is best used with a good weapon that newcomers won't have though by no means renders it useless - but would rank him the hardest frame for a newcomer, as his only other useful ability is Speed for evasion of incoming fire & sheer speed runs, that's it.

 

Ash (A glimpse of stealth+combat for newcomers wherein they can choose to stay ash, go loki for stealth, or choose more combat-sided frames)

Trinity (We need more of them! + Support role show to newcomers)

Sayrn (Damage role show to newcomers.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too much deeps. Deeps need new deeps to aspire to higher deeps hieghts. if you give them all the deeps out of the gate then the deeps are not as meaningful. 

Also Nova is kind of specialized/squishy. I think she's more of a graduated warframe. 

I think Rhino is actually a pretty balanced frame. All of his abilities are unique and useful. 

 

Except Rhino gives more deeps so poor old Excal is overshadowed again.

At early levels armor isn't a big issue, Charge will deal more damage than Dash except against Moas and light infested.

 

Roar is a straight gun DPS boost. You cannot argue that. Roar turns early obtained "power weapons" like the Kunai and Hikou into absolute monsters. Excal lacks too far behind that.

 

Stomp does not have a target limit and ignores obstacles, while RJ still needs some positioning to work with. And 800 AI damage is a fair trade for such ease of use and it can still one hit most stuff in Kappa and Saturn.

 

OTOH I had to use super jump together with RJ to get maximum accuracy.... Something not many newbie would know (and of course it makes Excal look 100% cooler but that's another point).

 

 

And I haven't talk about Iron Skin yet.....

Edited by fatpig84
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except Rhino gives more deeps so poor old Excal is overshadowed again.

At early levels armor isn't a big issue, Charge will deal more damage than Dash except against Moas and light infested.

Roar is a straight gun DPS boost. You cannot argue that. Roar turns early obtained "power weapons" like the Kunai and Hikou into absolute monsters. Excal lacks too far behind that.

Stomp does not have a target limit and ignores obstacles, while RJ still needs some positioning to work with. And 800 AI damage is a fair trade for such ease of use and it can still one hit most stuff in Kappa and Saturn.

OTOH I had to use super jump together with RJ to get maximum accuracy.... Something not many newbie would know (and of course it makes Excal look 100% cooler but that's another point).

And I haven't talk about Iron Skin yet.....

Charge does more damage in paper, not in practice. The shorter Range makes it difficult to really maximize its' potential. It's only 150 points of damage above Slash Dash anyway and doesn't do anything special against Infested and Moa. The knockdown is useful for a starter Rhino to give some mitigation to his team, but Iron Skin means he doesn't really *personally* need it. Since the damage is so close the "relative" damage is pretty similar; targets that are killed by Charge are probably going to be killed by Slash Dash as well since there's only a 150 difference and HP scaling rarely works out in Charge's favor.

Roar is good for you and the entire team. I'd definitely use it over Charge for small encounters of enemies, but Stomp is where I got for big spawns. That said, 50% isn't *that* much and the duration isn't very long unless you are going to really specialize in it.

Stomp is undoubtedly good, but I feel your impressions of it are painted by its' effectiveness in lower level content. It's really good when it's able to 1HKO an entire room; it's mostly just good when it is not. Nova is precisely the same way, by the way. Also the kind of STOMP you are talking about isn't available to a new character as the ability requires a lot of mods to get to the point you are talking about. Comparatively Slash Dash is ready right out of the box.

Iron Skin makes the game laughably easy for AWHILE. It does fall off really quickly in higher level content where it's safer to just use stomp and try to kill things before they get out of stasis.

Slash Dash is a better ability than anyone gives it credit for. 25 Energy to do 500 damage to an unlimited number of enemies in a large line is not bad in either damage or efficiency. Consider that Stomp takes 100 energy to do 1,600 damage (800 x2), then realize that 4 Slash Dash's will do 2,000. Throw in Pendragon, Focus, Flow, Streamline, Blind Rage, Fleeting Expertise etc etc etc and this simple ability becomes a spammy death barrage of unrelenting power. Slash Dash is better than Excaliburs ultimate.

For mitigation Radial Blind is decent, but I prefer just staying in cover or simply killing things. 5s Stun is a long while to get to a safe spot or end an engagement, and 50 energy is pretty cheap for what is essentially a get out of jail free card.

Super Jump is lolzy, but fun to have.

Radial Javelin could probably use a slight buff in damage. It could be really devastating if the javelins were better about dividing between targets. As is though it does 1,000 damage to everyone around you which is boosted to 1,150 with the Pendragon helmet and only 450 damage away from stomp. If two javelins hit a single enemy it can actually do *better* damage than Stomp. Stomp is still ultimately better due to unlimited targets and better damage out of the box.

It helps if you understand something about "over-damage" too when you're comparing powers to each other though. When I say 450 damage difference between Radial Javelin and Stomp I mean to imply that the damage is close enough that the powers will both be "one-shotting" enemies at relative level variables. That is, a level 10 enemy is probably going to get one shot by Radial Javeline and Stomp. A level 15 enemy might take two javelines and one stomp, but then a level 20 enemy would take two javelines and two stomps. The damage that "matters" is similar due to the way HP/Shield/Armor scales.

Edited by Acos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude excali is still my top played frames, combined both excal prime and regular excal stats together and they easily deal 35% or more of my play time.

 

But I digress a little bit, there is a reason why Rhino is more commonly picked than Excal.

Because he is on the easier side to use. Excal is not easy to use at all despite being the newbie frame.

 

Slash dash damage in the end is not end all be all, it is best as a mobility skill, not a damage skill. 

Even with full fledged Pendragon + Focus.

 

Radial blind is powerful, no doubt, but it only stops enemies from moving for 5 seconds. After that they can still move and head off to their last intended location. Works well against Grineer and Corpus but it won't stop infested toxic ancients in their tracks. They will still rush to your last spot, forcing you to re-cast blind again using even more energy.

 

That is why excal isn't top pick in defense mission but his RB can work admirably well in the void since there is very few melee enemies. But I still can't figure out for the life of me why DE does not want Radial Blind duration to be boosted by duration mods.

 

Super Jump isn't lulzy btw, it is a core skill for excal. Because it combos into all his skills since they all can be air cast now.

It is even more important than ever because RJ needs SJ.

 

An SJ followed by RJ, if time correctly can nail Javelin for a head shot, thus increasing damage output and that is more reliable than praying 2 for javs to hit a single enemy due to obstacles. 

 

But again I lament, how many newbies actually know all of Excal skills can be combined with SJ ? Even RB can take advantage of SJ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude excali is still my top played frames, combined both excal prime and regular excal stats together and they easily deal 35% or more of my play time.

 

But I digress a little bit, there is a reason why Rhino is more commonly picked than Excal.

Because he is on the easier side to use. Excal is not easy to use at all despite being the newbie frame.

 

Slash dash damage in the end is not end all be all, it is best as a mobility skill, not a damage skill. 

Even with full fledged Pendragon + Focus.

 

Radial blind is powerful, no doubt, but it only stops enemies from moving for 5 seconds. After that they can still move and head off to their last intended location. Works well against Grineer and Corpus but it won't stop infested toxic ancients in their tracks. They will still rush to your last spot, forcing you to re-cast blind again using even more energy.

 

That is why excal isn't top pick in defense mission but his RB can work admirably well in the void since there is very few melee enemies. But I still can't figure out for the life of me why DE does not want Radial Blind duration to be boosted by duration mods.

 

Super Jump isn't lulzy btw, it is a core skill for excal. Because it combos into all his skills since they all can be air cast now.

It is even more important than ever because RJ needs SJ.

 

An SJ followed by RJ, if time correctly can nail Javelin for a head shot, thus increasing damage output and that is more reliable than praying 2 for javs to hit a single enemy due to obstacles. 

 

But again I lament, how many newbies actually know all of Excal skills can be combined with SJ ? Even RB can take advantage of SJ.

I'll admit, I didn't know Super Jump + Radial Javelin increased headshot frequency. I'm going to have to go try that out. That being said, point for point Slash Dash should still wind up doing better damage. Provided that you land a headshot with Radial Javelin, and let's throw in Pendragon for giggles, that's a total of 1725 damage. Using Slash Dash four times is 2,300 damage. Again, there's HP scaling to take into consideration which means their actually "pretty close" though. SJ+RJ will be quicker than SDx4, but the downsides then are that it takes two mod slots instead of one, requires more energy per damage dealt (1725/110 = 15.68 dpe, 2,300/100 = 23 dpe), and I would consider it more "situational". What I mean by that is that I can Slash Dash a small group of enemies without losing much in terms of energy per damage; your SJ+RJ combo really does need a large amount of targets or you wind up "wasting" a lot of your energy by not meeting its' maximum potential. This isn't ever a problem if you mostly play survival/defense, but in normal gameplay it can come up quite a bit. 

That is, of course, all under the impression that you are fighting mostly Grineer. Against Corpus and Infested Slash Dash is going to absolutely do more damage than Radial Javelin because the bonus it gets against the enemies within those factions is pretty devastating. 2/3 Factions ain't bad. 

In summary I absolutely disagree with your assessment that Slash Dash is only for mobility. While it certainly can do that I've been using it as my primary means of damage for two Excaliburs and four formas now. I'll go check out Radial Javelin again. 

Radial Blind stuns for 5, blinds for 15. I don't use the ability to stop enemies though, I use it for mitigation. When things are going badly and I need things to stop shooting at me. I don't consider it necessary in early level content because I find cover to be sufficient, but for higher level content, pvp, or things like defense it can absolutely buy you valuable time. 

Comparing to Rhino again, I could make a case of Radial Blind being *better* than Iron Skin. Iron Skin is effective at level ranges that you don't really need it, and tends to get torn to pieces at level ranges that damage mitigation would have been really useful. Radial Blind is useful in those level ranges because it isn't really dependent upon the damage enemies are doing to be useful or not. Rhino still has Stomp so it's not really an apparent issue, but I'm not actually as impressed with Iron Skin as most people seem to be. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...