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Avrael_Asgard

Excalibur rework ideas

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First of all, dont take this too seriously, im just a normal player with a limited understanding of most things in the game, i just wanted to make a list of things i think could improve Excalibur, since right now he only exists on his 4, like many other frames.

I know he is the mascot of warframe, and very important to everyone, talking about changes for him wont sit right with everyone and would have to be done right, but this is my feedback, so ye. I will just make a point for all of his skills:

1. His 1 is very unreliable and pretty much never used, maybe as a bad gap closer. Everyone can see that it doesnt work right, sometimes it hits one enemie, sometimes multible... sometimes none, even in big groups. It also is pretty slow if you decide to use it, and when it hits multible enemies, can become a death trap.

Now, i would change it somewhat like this: You can only use it on a target, so youre guaranteed to hit it. If you press 1 just once it will hit only one enemie in a quick sweep as a gap closer, but if you hold it, it will continue to slash between enemies in the area, for an energy drain per enemie. This would serve the same function as it does now, but... better, and with more options in my eyes.

2. The blind is actually his second best skill and i dont know how to improve it much further, so imo that can stay as it is.

3. The 3 is at least as underwhelming as his 1, it also serves the almost same purpose, hitting multible enemies for very little damage. On very low levels it will stick enemies to walls, which is... fun i guess, but extremly unnessecary. On even medium levels it will do absolutley nothing but stun enemies a little bit. In which case youre better of using his 2. This skill is imo never worth using in normal gameplay.

My idea for a change would be, first of all make the animation quicker, and after enemies got hit by the javilin, when excalibur rips his sword out of the ground, it pulls all enemies hit by javilins towards him into melee range, just not from extremly far away. Which would make sense for THE melee frame. Kinda like Nidus 2, but centered on him.

4. Now, for this one... i know this is the bread and butter of excalibur right now, and the almost only reason of using him imo. But i would love to get rid of this skill entirely.

I like the idea of some frames having their own weapons they can summon and use, but... this game has enough weapons, almost all of them worth using, and sadly, almost always better to use then exalted weapons, because of mod limitations, energy drain etc. Excaliburs is i think the best exalted weapon in the game, because its actually strong. Wukong, Ivara, Garuda... they all are atm better off using other melee weapons then their 4, which is ok, but kinda wastes their 4th ability. Maybe i will make another thread on exalted weapons in general, now back to this one.

So heres my idea for this one: Dont make him draw and use his exalted blade. Instead, make him ram it into the ground, and project a buff aura, that gives a buff to melee weapons for you and teammates in the aura, at a constant energy drain. This buff being, either sending out energy waves like his 4 does right now, or just massivley increasing melee range, so youre able to hit enemies way outside this buff circle. Could even work with his Chromatic Blade augment, just give the elemental buff to the other weapons too. Maybe the initial strike can push enemies away (since his 3 would pull them in now), and he can recall it at any time by pressing 4 again. When the sword hits enemies on its way back, it could deal massive damage, it would be tricky to use, but give a worthwhile reward for using it.

The main reason i came up with those changes is, that id love to use Umbra with his signature weapon Skiajati... but he just almost never has to use it, in almost every mission his 4 is just on constantly. And i find that a bit sad. Same with Wukong, IF you wanna use his staff and build it for dmg, you probably wont use your normal melee weapon, at least not much.

So in my mind one way of making him use his Skiajati, or any other melee weapon, is to not make him use his exalted blade at all time, but make it buff other melee weapons, and itself can still be used for his 1 slash.

I know, those changes arent perfect, or even thought through, i just wrote this out of my mind. But id still love to hear comments on this, positive or negative. I just wrote what would make me use Excalibur a lot more again, probably even main him. He is strong right now, but in my eyes not for the right reasons. I like using multible, if possible all, skills a warframe has to offer, insead of just using one which also replaces your melee weapon, and just destroys everything. But, that could be just me. Lemme know what you think. Also, sorry for writing this much, but as you can maybe tell, since i came back to this game a few weeks ago, i really care for it now. Id really love to see it get as good as it can.

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Very interesting post. As an Excalibur Umbra user, I think you have some good points and some points I disagree with. Here are my general thoughts on Excalibur:

  1. I, for one, like his 4 as is. It fits his theme and it has it's place. Since it consumes energy, I find myself using my melee when I am energy starved or possibly hit with something that just drains my energy at higher levels. Falling back on a solid melee will save your life in those situational moments.
  2. I think his 3 has some use and could use a slight bump. Unless you are using the augment that increases Melee Damage after hitting enemies with his 3, the use of it is limited to blinding enemies, which his 2 does better to me.
  3. I think the 2 is fine as is. Speaking from an Umbra perspective, it stuns enemies and strips Sentients of their resistances. Makes it less necessary to carry the Paracesis and gives me more loadout flexibility.
  4. His one needs some love in my opinion. It's usefulness to me declines as you get into higher content.

My overall recommendations for Excalibur is to buff the lesser used abilities a lad to the point that they have more utility and someone just relying on his 4.

Like you, I am also open to feedback and discussion around Excal/Excal Umbra. 😀

 

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-06-15 at 2:42 AM, Avrael_Asgard said:

right now he only exists on his 4

Not true since Melee 3.0. Exalted Blade is inferior to regular melee thanks to:

- limited access to mods (especially the best ones);

- not being able to damage ability-proof enemies;

- energy cost;

- frequent deactivations in higher-level infested and corpus missions.

With follow-through mechanics and reworked combos added with Melee 3.0, Exalted Blade has lost its advantage over regular melee yet kept all the bad stuff.

On 2020-06-15 at 2:42 AM, Avrael_Asgard said:

i would love to get rid of this skill entirely

Replacing Excalibur's ultimate with a melee buffing ability is a good idea (though I don't think it should be stationary), but there's no need to get rid of the sword. It can receive Garuda Talons treatment which means you can use it as a regular melee if no melee weapon is equipped. This comes with no energy cost, no wave projectiles and full modding capacity.

On 2020-06-15 at 2:42 AM, Avrael_Asgard said:

The 3

Good idea overall. IMO Radial Javelin could also get damage reduction functionality depending on number of enemies hit by the ability. Just like Furious Javelin augment works for melee damage.

By the way, currently Radial Javelin, despite being bad on itself, is the only ability that allows Excalibur to stand out as a damage dealing frame. Thanks to Furious Javelin augment that multiplies your total melee damage.

RF4Vt6q.jpg

Edited by Xaero

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I almost never use his 4. Don't even bother with the augment for it, really. My normal melee does the job, also allows me to be more versatile overall. I can also just shoot enemies far away from me, instead of wasting energy on lazor sword beams.

Don't use his 1 much for the same reason. I don't care about its invul window because operator mode, blind, rolls, bullet jump and blocking exist. Its too limited to be of use.

His 3 is only worthwhile because of the augment for it. Still get more joy out of racking up crazy bonuses from it than from his 1 or 4.

His 2 is great CC, gives finishers and even more melee damage. Ever since devs made it so that finishers have a separate button it became even better.

Good ideas for the most part, easy to implement. Too bad excals potential is limited by his own image. Can't have a frame to be too "difficult" lmao

 

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On 2020-06-14 at 6:42 PM, Avrael_Asgard said:

Now, i would change it somewhat like this: You can only use it on a target, so youre guaranteed to hit it. If you press 1 just once it will hit only one enemie in a quick sweep as a gap closer, but if you hold it, it will continue to slash between enemies in the area, for an energy drain per enemie. This would serve the same function as it does now, but... better, and with more options in my eyes.

I would instead suggest the classic Slash dash but with 500 damage, a combo mechanic (like Rhino and Atlas, x2 and x4 damage with increased efficiency) and it benefits from your melee mods (just like Atlas and Khora) with also a guaranteed slash proc since well, you're dashing through enemies with a sword, it just makes sense that you make them bleed.

The classic Slash Dash was basically sending Excalibur quickly in a straight line with a huge attack radius around him, being able to cut through multiple groups in just a single cast, I'm not saying your changes are bad, but that would still keep the current Slash Dash as a terrible ability for the shockingly low amount of damage and lack of crit chance and status chance, (to be precise; 0% status and critical chance) with also the terrible target mechanic that it has which is based on your line of sight, and most of the times it doesn't even work.

I guess it's also worth nothing that this will still work as a gap closer, it will specially work even better for mobility and will also still work as a panic button since I don't see a reason to take the temporal godmode away from it, Atlas has it too after all.

On 2020-06-14 at 6:42 PM, Avrael_Asgard said:

2. The blind is actually his second best skill and i dont know how to improve it much further, so imo that can stay as it is.

I would say his first, Exalted Blade is absolute garbage since literally every other weapon can do what Exalted Blade does, but way better, that was the case even before the melee 3.0 changes but the amount of fanboys that there were for Excal completely nullified any sort of criticism towards it.

 

On 2020-06-14 at 6:42 PM, Avrael_Asgard said:

4. Now, for this one... i know this is the bread and butter of excalibur right now, and the almost only reason of using him imo. But i would love to get rid of this skill entirely.

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, PARTY TIME!


Not even kidding, I would love to get rid of this ability, absolutely disintegrate it out of existence, this is gonna be a bit of a rant so y'all should avoid it, it will not bring too many constructive things, It's just me complaining about my terrible experience with Excalibur since Exalted blade was implemented. (and it might be fun to read for some people I guess)

Spoiler

 

I seriously cannot stand anymore the sound of this ability, it's so shockingly annoying and tedious after a few minutes, it really gets into my nerves, that sounds and those absolutely useless combos, all the melees have combos that go from gaps closers to good CC, increased damage, guaranteed status procs, and Exalted Blade? It's just spam the hell out of that thing, the combos have virtually no difference whatsoever, it's just all frontal attacks with different damage %.

I feel like the Devs really have a crush on Excalibur because not only they gave and still give him a saturated amount of skins but also they gave him the most overpowered melee for the time, they nerfed melee back in the day getting rid of hitting enemies through walls and Excalibur STILL HAS TO THIS DAY 40 METERS OF INFINITE PUNCHTHROUGH.

Everyone, and I mean it, literally EVERYONE was playing Excalibur back then when his rework arrived and they still played him more than anyone else, the stats themselves showed that the most played Warframe in the whole god damn game was EXCALIBUR, just because he had a little ridiculous sword that did little to nothing compared to the regular guns or other warframes, I still don't know how can SO MANY PEOPLE WHITE KNIGHT THIS WARFRAME SO BADLY.

None of the Excal fanboys can take even the slightest amount of criticism and this ability is one of the main reasons; "HURR YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE EXCALIBUR BECAUSE EXALTED BLADE THIS AND EXALTED BLADE THE OTHER, YOU'RE JUST A COMPLETE IGNORANT"

Oh it's also worth noting that the rest of the Exalted Melee warframes have worse combo stats ON PURPOSE BY THE WAY just to make Excalibur outshine artificially just like how DE has been trying for YEARS.

Valkyr? every combo has default damage, Baruuk? Same, Wukong? Exalted got nerfed and combos do a miserable amount of damage, OH BUT EXCALIBUR, OUR LITTLE POSTER BOY, WE'LL GIVE HIM 200% EXTRA DAMAGE ON MOST COMBOS THAT ALSO CAN AFFECT HIS WAVES, not only that but Excalibur's waves work with Condition Overload, and SERENE STORM DOESN'T, that is not a coincidence, that is absolutely on purpose.

I swear to the lord I can't stand Excaliblades anymore and until this things gets completely, but COMPLETELY REWORKED or deleted, I will not play online matches. It's not a "now" thing, I literally got so tired of carrying and babysitting these excaliburs for so many years that I just went full hermit mode and since years I've been religiously playing solo, with the only exceptions being playing with 2 friends, the Sacrifice didn't helped on absolutely anything, look I appreciate Umbra's story, BUT ALL I WANT TO DO IS SELL HIM, I prefer a slot for another 10 times more fun and powerful warframe than being forced to keep MY MOST DESPISED WARFRAME, I WANT TO DELETE UMBRA SO BADLY.

 

Unless they give a complete revisit to Exalted Blade and make it an actual worth using melee with actual purpose more than just being a silly "pewpew sword" then I absolutely agree that Exalted Blade should no longer exist, I would legit be the happiest person in the whole game if that happened.

What makes Baruuk's Exalted shine over other melee weapons is that it has 20 meters on range with a huge AoE and extremely good stats, further brutalized with the augment, that's something that a normal melee cannot do, see what I mean? Exalted blade being just pew pew has nothing to offer, I can just bring a Lacera or a Gunblade and absolutely overshadow Exalted Blade in any way possible without even making the best build in the whole world.

With that on mind, Exalted Blade would need something that makes it actually worth using, not just raising the number because that's gonna be cheap and is not gonna fix anything, maybe give it actual good combos with huge C waves surrounding Excalibur on every swing that can hit crowds close to him, there's no reason to have 40 meters waves, Excalibur is suppose to be a SWORDSMAN, NOT A TURRET.

But if a change like that isn't done then yeah, throw Exalted Blade to the garbage, please for the love of God.

There's also a good suggestion that I got on a post that I did criticizing Excalibur:

Combined with that suggestion that I gave, the huge C waves surrounding him for better crowd control when he's close other enemies, there was also a good synergy for his heavy attack since that's a thing, depending on the Combo accumulated (x2, x6, x12, you know) if you do a heavy attack, Excalibur will slam Exalted Blade on the ground creating a massive shockwave that increases it's range and damage BASED ON THE COMBO, so at 0 combo the shockwave will be microscopic and harmless, or will just deal around x1.5 the damage of Exalted Blade, while fully charge would be like a 30 meters shockwave with a massive damage increase and a huge area, similar to my Slash Dash suggestion.

This gif below is pretty much the idea that this person gave me, and I feel like not only will it make Exalted Blade a melee actually worth using, but it will also have stuff that other melees can't compare themselves against.

Saber's_Excalibur.gif

Of course to prevent the terrible problem that I've always had with Excalibur which is everyone exploiting the hell out of Exalted Blade and having it activated for entire hours, instead of energy based, it should be based on a specific meter kind of like Baruuk, but this meter is charged based on the usage of his other 3 abilities, and it also charges if he does melee kills (Excluding Exalted Blade's kills of course, otherwise it's gonna be an infinite loop) to also promote a melee playstyle that will give a rightfully payoff, again, just like Baruuk.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)Havok21Zero said:

Very interesting post. As an Excalibur Umbra user, I think you have some good points and some points I disagree with. Here are my general thoughts on Excalibur:

  1. I, for one, like his 4 as is. It fits his theme and it has it's place. Since it consumes energy, I find myself using my melee when I am energy starved or possibly hit with something that just drains my energy at higher levels. Falling back on a solid melee will save your life in those situational moments.
  2. I think his 3 has some use and could use a slight bump. Unless you are using the augment that increases Melee Damage after hitting enemies with his 3, the use of it is limited to blinding enemies, which his 2 does better to me.
  3. I think the 2 is fine as is. Speaking from an Umbra perspective, it stuns enemies and strips Sentients of their resistances. Makes it less necessary to carry the Paracesis and gives me more loadout flexibility.
  4. His one needs some love in my opinion. It's usefulness to me declines as you get into higher content.

My overall recommendations for Excalibur is to buff the lesser used abilities a lad to the point that they have more utility and someone just relying on his 4.

Like you, I am also open to feedback and discussion around Excal/Excal Umbra. 😀

 

I'm not sure if a small bump will fix Radial Javelin, it's usage is really limited and as the OP mentioned, it only works on super low levels, that being bellow level 30 and if they aren't Grineers, I feel like instead it should be changed for something new, it's just silly that a swordsman has an ability based on... shooting more swords.

This is a suggestion that I had for a new Radial Javelin that I feel would fit better and will also promote a melee playstyle, since Excalibur was always suppose to be a melee frame.(straight up copied from my Excal post)

Quote

Probably make the ability work similarly to Baruuk's 3rd ability, but in this case make the swords (I still don't know why they call them Javelins) spin around Excalibur and anyone that gets close to him will be hit by every individual sword spinning, they can also break but killing with melee will regen a sword, and every sword should give damage reduction stacked to 90%, and how about 95% against melee attacks? also every hit by each sword will add 1 combo to your melee, this would be an extremely good offense and defense at the same time, also activating again Radial Javelin should launch your current swords against the enemies for no extra cost with also double damage, meaning 2000 damage for each sword, or maybe 2500, 3000, it really depends on how much damage it can scale so it doesn't become overpowered.

That would promote the role of being a "swordsman" since your maximum potential should be the melee with swords, you can attack from a long range but your true potential will always be melee.

And his 4th, Exalted Blade I think that it needs a lot of changes, I left a reply before that pretty much showcases my opinion about Exalted Blade and how it should change, 40 meters of infintie punchthrough waves that have a massive falloff and are reduced to a microscopic bean is just absolutely unnecessary and doesn't fit at all with the Swordsman theme, besides it promotes more like a turret playstyle instead of a melee one, which again, is what Excalibur is suppose to be, a Swordsman, not the alternative of a gun by using Exalted Blade like a turret over a melee weapon.

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Exalted blade imo should stay. Whatever changes made to excalibur should keep one thing in mind. Excalibur is a starter frame, his kit should be easy to understand and use. Exalted blade or exalted weapons in general is good for newbies that have yet to got better weapons/mods. 
Though, that doesn't mean Excalibur can't have a buff. Just it has to stick to his description to be easy and beginner friendly

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1 hour ago, Amadurim said:

Exalted blade imo should stay. Whatever changes made to excalibur should keep one thing in mind. Excalibur is a starter frame, his kit should be easy to understand and use. Exalted blade or exalted weapons in general is good for newbies that have yet to got better weapons/mods. 
Though, that doesn't mean Excalibur can't have a buff. Just it has to stick to his description to be easy and beginner friendly

Doesn't matter if he is starter or not. Volt is also a starter but currently he is the best eidolon killer and a fantastic eso clearing nuke by himself.

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I think giving slash dash an augment of one second of invincibility per enemy hit and resets when slash dash is used again. that would make it much easier.

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14 hours ago, Amadurim said:

Exalted blade imo should stay. Whatever changes made to excalibur should keep one thing in mind. Excalibur is a starter frame, his kit should be easy to understand and use. Exalted blade or exalted weapons in general is good for newbies that have yet to got better weapons/mods. 
Though, that doesn't mean Excalibur can't have a buff. Just it has to stick to his description to be easy and beginner friendly

Mag is also shockingly easy to understand and she's an excellent warframe for beginners and advanced players, I've seen starter players with Mags being so extremely useful for the team despite their level.

Exalted Blade is just the alternative of a melee but more silly and overrated, it shouldn't stay, and if it does, it should be changed to be an actual good melee that is well balanced than just a gun, what a starter ends up learning with Excalibur is "Exploit the hell out of Exalted Blade and nothing else".

Literally, every single person that suggest something about Excalibur to a starter will always be "Exalted blade this, exalted blade the other" and all of that, can you imagine teaching a beginner that all the warframes are press 4 to win? Excalibur is a terrible example in his current state all "thanks" to Exalted Blade.

10 hours ago, hefirey said:

I think giving slash dash an augment of one second of invincibility per enemy hit and resets when slash dash is used again. that would make it much easier.

Don't suggest augments for a rework, that's gonna be just a band aid and Slash Dash will have that augment as mandatory, making it only work with said augment, what Slash Dash needs is a complete change, the old Slash Dash was 10 times better than the current one.

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First of all, i didnt not expect this many comments, and positive ones at that. I counted on getting absolutley stomped on for daring to even mention sweet baby excalibur.

I didnt know that his 1 had an older version, that sounds also really good if that would come back. I cant imagine why they changed that, it sounds so much more useful. Also i like the idea of his 3 being changed to blades cloaking him for resistance, reminds me of skills in other mmos, which isnt a bad thing. It would make sense to give a melee frame dmg reduction, theres no reason not to if mesa has it for instance, while not even being near enemies normally. I still would like that when you activate it again, the blades hit enemies around you and drag them to you, something to get enemies to you would be very useful for a melee frame.

 

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10 minutes ago, Avrael_Asgard said:

First of all, i didnt not expect this many comments, and positive ones at that. I counted on getting absolutley stomped on for daring to even mention sweet baby excalibur.

I didnt know that his 1 had an older version, that sounds also really good if that would come back. I cant imagine why they changed that, it sounds so much more useful. Also i like the idea of his 3 being changed to blades cloaking him for resistance, reminds me of skills in other mmos, which isnt a bad thing. It would make sense to give a melee frame dmg reduction, theres no reason not to if mesa has it for instance, while not even being near enemies normally. I still would like that when you activate it again, the blades hit enemies around you and drag them to you, something to get enemies to you would be very useful for a melee frame.

 

Oh man I actually thought about that, the swords revolving around you but now combining it with your idea of the swords pulling enemies, the swords will revolve around you with the ideas that I gave but also combined with the possibility of pulling enemies. If you launch the swords, enemies hit by them are vacuumed really hard against you, while the stun lasts, you'll be able to quickly kill them with your melee or the upgraded Exalted Blade for charging further your combo for the giant shockwave, that's perfect.

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You cannot get rid of excals 4 because it's his signature ability, part of the lore, featured in trailers and images, has an augment for it, etc, etc. Sometimes people do't really think stuff through. 

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2 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

You cannot get rid of excals 4 because it's his signature ability, part of the lore, featured in trailers and images, has an augment for it, etc, etc. Sometimes people do't really think stuff through. 

Is not really part of the lore, it has nothing to do with it, it's just a silly gun blade that can be used to camp as a turret, it is absolutely possible to get rid of it because of how useless it is, and if you are talking about the thing appearing once in the new war cutscene, then that can be easily edited for something better.

Having an augment doesn't give it a super shield neither, that would be absurd. Ember also had augments and 3 of her abilities were drastically changed, guess what, the augments were optimized too.

Exalted blade has always been and it still is a terrible Exalted weapon that has been extremely overrated over the years making anyone think that criticizing it is a sign of ignorance, when in reality that would be far from the truth, completely getting rid of Exalted Blade would be honestly my biggest dream in the whole game (Not even kidding), and if DE still wants to keep the overrated thing, the least they can do is completely rework it into an actual good exalted melee that has a purpose, good usage and specially IT ISN'T EXPLOITABLE.

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I mean on top of slash dash still having invincibility it gives extra invincibility per each enemy hit once slash dash is finished,

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9 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

You cannot get rid of excals 4 because it's his signature ability, part of the lore, featured in trailers and images, has an augment for it, etc, etc. Sometimes people do't really think stuff through. 

Exalted Blade still stays as the visual part of the rest of his kit though. And there's no need to delete the blade completely, it could work like Garuda Talons (with some tweaks of course). This way the lore stays untouched, trailers still depict the real thing, and augment can always be reworked to fit the new ultimate ability.

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I don't like excal very much, he hurts me more than the enemies lol

 

His exalted blade isn't bad, but that is all that he got... Actually his other skills are good, but irrelevant, thanks to exalted blade.

U can build for the first 3 skills or the fourth, use all skills is pointless (at least it is how i see it).

But the problem with the first 3 skills is that they are kind of wierd and the 3 is very slow (it has a very good augment).

 

A simple solution would be twik some of the first 3 skills or make the fourth more impactfull and fun to use, also give him a bit more health and armor should work too.

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-06-14 at 11:42 PM, Avrael_Asgard said:

First of all, dont take this too seriously, im just a normal player with a limited understanding of most things in the game, i just wanted to make a list of things i think could improve Excalibur, since right now he only exists on his 4, like many other frames.

I know he is the mascot of warframe, and very important to everyone, talking about changes for him wont sit right with everyone and would have to be done right, but this is my feedback, so ye. I will just make a point for all of his skills:

1. His 1 is very unreliable and pretty much never used, maybe as a bad gap closer. Everyone can see that it doesnt work right, sometimes it hits one enemie, sometimes multible... sometimes none, even in big groups. It also is pretty slow if you decide to use it, and when it hits multible enemies, can become a death trap.

Now, i would change it somewhat like this: You can only use it on a target, so youre guaranteed to hit it. If you press 1 just once it will hit only one enemie in a quick sweep as a gap closer, but if you hold it, it will continue to slash between enemies in the area, for an energy drain per enemie. This would serve the same function as it does now, but... better, and with more options in my eyes.

2. The blind is actually his second best skill and i dont know how to improve it much further, so imo that can stay as it is.

3. The 3 is at least as underwhelming as his 1, it also serves the almost same purpose, hitting multible enemies for very little damage. On very low levels it will stick enemies to walls, which is... fun i guess, but extremly unnessecary. On even medium levels it will do absolutley nothing but stun enemies a little bit. In which case youre better of using his 2. This skill is imo never worth using in normal gameplay.

My idea for a change would be, first of all make the animation quicker, and after enemies got hit by the javilin, when excalibur rips his sword out of the ground, it pulls all enemies hit by javilins towards him into melee range, just not from extremly far away. Which would make sense for THE melee frame. Kinda like Nidus 2, but centered on him.

4. Now, for this one... i know this is the bread and butter of excalibur right now, and the almost only reason of using him imo. But i would love to get rid of this skill entirely.

I like the idea of some frames having their own weapons they can summon and use, but... this game has enough weapons, almost all of them worth using, and sadly, almost always better to use then exalted weapons, because of mod limitations, energy drain etc. Excaliburs is i think the best exalted weapon in the game, because its actually strong. Wukong, Ivara, Garuda... they all are atm better off using other melee weapons then their 4, which is ok, but kinda wastes their 4th ability. Maybe i will make another thread on exalted weapons in general, now back to this one.

So heres my idea for this one: Dont make him draw and use his exalted blade. Instead, make him ram it into the ground, and project a buff aura, that gives a buff to melee weapons for you and teammates in the aura, at a constant energy drain. This buff being, either sending out energy waves like his 4 does right now, or just massivley increasing melee range, so youre able to hit enemies way outside this buff circle. Could even work with his Chromatic Blade augment, just give the elemental buff to the other weapons too. Maybe the initial strike can push enemies away (since his 3 would pull them in now), and he can recall it at any time by pressing 4 again. When the sword hits enemies on its way back, it could deal massive damage, it would be tricky to use, but give a worthwhile reward for using it.

The main reason i came up with those changes is, that id love to use Umbra with his signature weapon Skiajati... but he just almost never has to use it, in almost every mission his 4 is just on constantly. And i find that a bit sad. Same with Wukong, IF you wanna use his staff and build it for dmg, you probably wont use your normal melee weapon, at least not much.

So in my mind one way of making him use his Skiajati, or any other melee weapon, is to not make him use his exalted blade at all time, but make it buff other melee weapons, and itself can still be used for his 1 slash.

I know, those changes arent perfect, or even thought through, i just wrote this out of my mind. But id still love to hear comments on this, positive or negative. I just wrote what would make me use Excalibur a lot more again, probably even main him. He is strong right now, but in my eyes not for the right reasons. I like using multible, if possible all, skills a warframe has to offer, insead of just using one which also replaces your melee weapon, and just destroys everything. But, that could be just me. Lemme know what you think. Also, sorry for writing this much, but as you can maybe tell, since i came back to this game a few weeks ago, i really care for it now. Id really love to see it get as good as it can.

Getting rid of his exalted blade is a terrible idea, as a founder and long time player, Excalibur is one of my favourite warframes of all time and chosen starter, I would be real pissed off were you to do this and I am sure many else would be, he is well known for the exalted sword iconography and having it removed would only take away what made him so cool and fun in the first place.

It's the best part of Excal and only needs a few tweaks if it's having issues with range or utility, since it's damage is fine. What I would do instead is reduce or remove the damage dropoff, like it had in the past before its nerfs and make the wave size based off 50% of melee range and also remove the useless blind on slide attack, that only exists to drain extra energy. Outside his 4th however there are some good ideas here.

What I would do instead though is make his blind his first ability and remove slash dash altogether, cause lets be real here its useless and clunky as stated. Then after removing slash dash and replacing it with blind, I would make his 2 your idea for javelin and his third your idea for exaltd blade.

So here is how he would look overall:

 

  • His 1 ability would be Radial Blind,
  • His 2 would be Radial Javelins that pull all enemies within line of sight of Excal to him, just like Nidus Larvae, but centred on himself.
  • His 3 would the melee aura buff, however instead it would be a buff on a timer , he would have blades surrounding him sorta like virgil from DMC, you could have the blades damaging anyone who gets too close, with damage being based of the exalted blade and when recast or the duration expires all blades shoot out, also doing damage based off exalted blade.
  • His 4th would be an improved exalted Blade

 

I think this is a better version of your sugesstions, while keeping what everyone loves him for, his Exalted blade and still reworking and buffing him.

Edited by Sonicbullitt

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11 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

You cannot get rid of excals 4 because it's his signature ability, part of the lore, featured in trailers and images, has an augment for it, etc, etc. Sometimes people do't really think stuff through. 

 

2 hours ago, Xaero said:

Exalted Blade still stays as the visual part of the rest of his kit though. And there's no need to delete the blade completely, it could work like Garuda Talons (with some tweaks of course). This way the lore stays untouched, trailers still depict the real thing, and augment can always be reworked to fit the new ultimate ability.

Ye exactly. I never said delete his exalted blade, just make him not use it as a main melee weapon with his 4 skill. His 3 other skills would still use it (well, also the 4th counting my idea), so it would still make perfect sense that its in videos and lore. He still has it, he still uses it.

@Sonicbullitt I can totally understand that a founder with excalibur prime (i assume) would be against most changes, as i said, its a difficult topic for this frame, as hes the only one that has a version noone can get again. But honestly, the way he is right now, do you, or others, enjoy playing him? The thing i just dont like the most is, you either use your normal melee weapon and ignore his skill, or you just use his skill and ignore his melee. I cant imagine anyone that swaps between both in a mission. I mean you could, but... i just wouldnt do it. At least not until i run out of energy.

But, i just had another idea for a change to his 4. Let him keep the blade as his 4, but remove the energy drain, but make attacks use energy. Kinda like Ivaras bow, which maybe isnt that strong, but id love the idea for using energy on attacks instead of a drain for all exalted weapons. For exalted blade specifically, i would make every attack cost a LOT of energy, like at least 50, but make it extremly strong. So you cant spam it for long, but you can use it for big groups, or tough enemies, like in my opinion it should have been designed. An exalted blade that you just can use 24/7 in a mission that shoots energy waves, but cant reach the damage of a normal melee... just doesnt sound too exalted to me. If i wanted to use a gun, i would use a gun.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Silvertap said:

His exalted blade isn't bad, but that is all that he got... Actually his other skills are good, but irrelevant, thanks to exalted blade.

Really? What's so good about Exalted Blade that makes it outshine the rest of Excalibur's kit and makes using regular melee pointless?

6 hours ago, Silvertap said:

U can build for the first 3 skills or the fourth

You can build in tankiness and slap Furious Javelin and get something like this:

RF4Vt6q.jpg

Yeah, dealing such damage is pointless, but at least you can troll your teammates with 100% dmg in long runs. Exalted Blade, on the other hand, is completely pointless. It's even inferior to regular melee weapons thanks to limited modding, energy cost and being unable to damage ability-proof enemies.

Edited by Xaero
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Avrael_Asgard said:

 

Ye exactly. I never said delete his exalted blade, just make him not use it as a main melee weapon with his 4 skill. His 3 other skills would still use it (well, also the 4th counting my idea), so it would still make perfect sense that its in videos and lore. He still has it, he still uses it.

@Sonicbullitt I can totally understand that a founder with excalibur prime (i assume) would be against most changes, as i said, its a difficult topic for this frame, as hes the only one that has a version noone can get again. But honestly, the way he is right now, do you, or others, enjoy playing him? The thing i just dont like the most is, you either use your normal melee weapon and ignore his skill, or you just use his skill and ignore his melee. I cant imagine anyone that swaps between both in a mission. I mean you could, but... i just wouldnt do it. At least not until i run out of energy.

But, i just had another idea for a change to his 4. Let him keep the blade as his 4, but remove the energy drain, but make attacks use energy. Kinda like Ivaras bow, which maybe isnt that strong, but id love the idea for using energy on attacks instead of a drain for all exalted weapons. For exalted blade specifically, i would make every attack cost a LOT of energy, like at least 50, but make it extremly strong. So you cant spam it for long, but you can use it for big groups, or tough enemies, like in my opinion it should have been designed. An exalted blade that you just can use 24/7 in a mission that shoots energy waves, but cant reach the damage of a normal melee... just doesnt sound too exalted to me. If i wanted to use a gun, i would use a gun.

I'm a lower level founder, so sadly no Prime for me, nevertheless I love Umbra and play with him all the time,he's my go do frame for general content that I don't have to metagame for and a warframe I still enjoy playing even many years later. I disagree with people calling EB weak, just cause melee is pretty good now, it still melts 150+ enemies with chromatic blade in seconds, outside of Mesa's pistols, he has the best exalted weapon. The problem with his exalted weapon is that it lacks range, utility and sometimes damage,specfically with the bladewave damage dropoff, a problem all warframes that aren't Mesa have, yes Ivara's bow sucks too. These problems aren't specfic to Excalibur, but exalted weapons as a whole.

The changes I listed take all your changes into account, every single one, I even improved upon some, like the melee damage and range buff you wanted to make his 4th, like I said all EB needs is some tweaks and improvements and it becomes really good, maybe not my specfic changes I listed earlier, but improvement nevertheless. EB stays, it doesn't need signifcant rework to become good just some buffs and tweaks here and there. That said I do like a lot of  your ideas here and a lot of it works, especially if you implemented the changes like I suggested while keeping EB.

I actually like your idea of more powerful waves but with a signifcant cost to energy, in fact I have already thought of some improvements that take your ideas into account for EB as I have been typing. This is just a rough idea I have of how it would function and are more radical changes than previously suggested, so take it with a grain of salt, anyway all that preamble out the way the changes to EB would be as follows :

Exalted Blade: Summon a blade made of pure energy, normal attacks shoot out energy waves dealing 50% of the weapons damage, so actually even less than they do now, a literal halving of its normal wave attack damage, however it no longer drains any energy for any of these regular wave attacks made with the sword. Instead these wave attacks now take into account 50% of the exalted melees range stat and/ or Warframes range stat and thus are larger and hit more enemies, removed damage drop off. (Again these numbers are really rough so bare with me)  Thats just the first part of the changes, the next part is where the fun really begins.

To compensate for the removal of the energy drain, charged/ power attacks now drain a significant amount of energy per charge attack, but have an increased status and crit chance, with 50% flat added to status chance and 100% flat added to crit chance, thats not all either these charge attacks unlike normal attacks take into account both 100% of the warframe's range and melee range stats into account on top of a multiplier to these stats, that increases with power strength. Combos would of course be changed and improved upon to take this into account.

So this leads to massive charge attack waves that drain a lot of energy but deal a lot of damage. As for the jump slam attacks, they shoot out energy bladewaves in all directions on landing, these waves don't have any crazy damage  numbers or range though, just regular exalted waves with a very short range. However the heavy slam that consumes heavy counter doesn't shoot out energy blade waves instead upon landing swords come out of the ground and impale enemies in a radius around it for a short time, keeping them held there as easy prey for Excal to kill.

These are significant changes that I never would expect DE to ever implement, however were I to make radical changes to EB, instead of just a few tweaks, this is along the lines of what I would do. Turn Excal into a complete swordsman, that unleashes huge energy blades with his sword charge attacks, entirely honed in on his sword. Cause lets be real here he hasn't been a "jack of all trades" for years now.

 

 

Edited by Sonicbullitt

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6 hours ago, Avrael_Asgard said:

But, i just had another idea for a change to his 4. Let him keep the blade as his 4, but remove the energy drain, but make attacks use energy. Kinda like Ivaras bow, which maybe isnt that strong, but id love the idea for using energy on attacks instead of a drain for all exalted weapons. For exalted blade specifically, i would make every attack cost a LOT of energy, like at least 50, but make it extremly strong. So you cant spam it for long, but you can use it for big groups, or tough enemies, like in my opinion it should have been designed. An exalted blade that you just can use 24/7 in a mission that shoots energy waves, but cant reach the damage of a normal melee... just doesnt sound too exalted to me. If i wanted to use a gun, i would use a gun.

This is not a bad idea tbh, Exalted Blade was always about exploiting the hell out of it and spamming them waves everywhere with no punishment whatsoever, making it such an ability that couid easily overshadow all of Excal's kit (even Radial Blind since the slide attack is a halved Radial Blind) and from which it had to be nerfed back then, but even with the nerf, it still had super absurd long waves, it just doesn't make sense and it's annoying.

Instead making EB cost energy per attack to compensate the wave abuse would make players think twice about spamming that thing and they would use it the right way, against huge crowds to kill them quickly, of course this should also still come with lots of changes for the blade since it still have generic combos, and the waves could be improved instead of being an absurd 40 meter range thing that has infinite punch through.

44 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

I'm a lower level founder, so sadly no Prime for me, nevertheless I love Umbra and play with him all the time,he's my go do frame for general content that I don't have to metagame for and a warframe I still enjoy playing even many years later. I disagree with people calling EB weak, just cause melee is pretty good now, it still melts 150+ enemies with chromatic blade in seconds, outside of Mesa's pistols, he has the best exalted weapon. The problem with his exalted weapon is that it lacks range, utility and sometimes damage,specfically with the bladewave damage dropoff, a problem all warframes that aren't Mesa have, yes Ivara's bow sucks too. These problems aren't specfic to Excalibur, but exalted weapons as a whole.

Are you really going to disagree that Exalted Blade isn't terrible? come on, slap weeping wounds on Redeemer / Lacera and you literally have Exalted Blade 2.0 with a free Chromatic Blade, that was the case since always but people always loved to overrate that exalted so badly that they always avoided any sort of criticism.

You can surely kill level 100 enemies with that thing, does it make it good though? Doubtful because my little Karyst can also melt them and way faster with a similar build, no energy cost and no annoying sound effects (personal thing), it's just the alternative of a melee weapon, what makes Baruuk's Serene Storm better than other melees and the best exalted melee is the gigantic energy walls, you can't replicate that with melees, instead you can easily replicate with any melee the spammy and annoying W+E of Exalted Blade.

He doesn't have the best Exalted melee, and he never will if he keeps going like this, even Wukong's can be way better, not because of the damage but because his melee has more utility and different attacks with great crowd control.

I wouldn't suggest just a few tweaks for Exalted Blade, instead giving it more utility and reasons to use it, something that you, me and the op have mentioned so it's all good there, just wanted to say this about Exalted Blade being "the best exalted weapon".

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

This is not a bad idea tbh, Exalted Blade was always about exploiting the hell out of it and spamming them waves everywhere with no punishment whatsoever, making it such an ability that couid easily overshadow all of Excal's kit (even Radial Blind since the slide attack is a halved Radial Blind) and from which it had to be nerfed back then, but even with the nerf, it still had super absurd long waves, it just doesn't make sense and it's annoying.

Instead making EB cost energy per attack to compensate the wave abuse would make players think twice about spamming that thing and they would use it the right way, against huge crowds to kill them quickly, of course this should also still come with lots of changes for the blade since it still have generic combos, and the waves could be improved instead of being an absurd 40 meter range thing that has infinite punch through.

Are you really going to disagree that Exalted Blade isn't terrible? come on, slap weeping wounds on Redeemer / Lacera and you literally have Exalted Blade 2.0 with a free Chromatic Blade, that was the case since always but people always loved to overrate that exalted so badly that they always avoided any sort of criticism.

You can surely kill level 100 enemies with that thing, does it make it good though? Doubtful because my little Karyst can also melt them and way faster with a similar build, no energy cost and no annoying sound effects (personal thing), it's just the alternative of a melee weapon, what makes Baruuk's Serene Storm better than other melees and the best exalted melee is the gigantic energy walls, you can't replicate that with melees, instead you can easily replicate with any melee the spammy and annoying W+E of Exalted Blade.

He doesn't have the best Exalted melee, and he never will if he keeps going like this, even Wukong's can be way better, not because of the damage but because his melee has more utility and different attacks with great crowd control.

I wouldn't suggest just a few tweaks for Exalted Blade, instead giving it more utility and reasons to use it, something that you, me and the op have mentioned so it's all good there, just wanted to say this about Exalted Blade being "the best exalted weapon".

I'll be honest here, I completely forgot about Baruuk and his Serene storm, shows you how much I play him lol. I was wrong when I said it was the best exalted melee, however it's not neccesarily because it lacks in the damage department, but in others as stated, utility and range. I still stand by the fact that it is not the worst exalted weapon currently in game and not as you describe it "terrible," but it could be a lot better for sure. Moving along did you not read the more radical changes I had in mind ? You haven't commented about them at all.

Edited by Sonicbullitt
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4 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

I'll be honest here, I completely forgot about Baruuk and his Serene storm, shows you how much I play him lol. I was wrong when I said it was the best exalted melee, however it's not neccesarily because it lacks in the damage department, but in others as stated, utility and range. I still stand by the fact that it is not the worst exalted weapon currently in game and not as you describe it "terrible," but it could be a lot better for sure. Moving along did you not read the more radical changes I had in mind ? You haven't commented about them at all.

Oh I absolutely read them and I can partially agree with the changes that you and OP are suggesting, it's just that I have nothing to comment about it, is not something that I would 100% agree on but I'm also not going to disagree, I would still prefer my changed for Exalted Blade having more utility and purpose with also huge C waves surrounding Excal that can make him an actual swordsman and a great crowd killer plus the giant shockwave that is built with combo, I just wanted to comment about Exalted Blade being the best exalted weapon.

Currently the worst exalted melees would be Titania's archmelee, Primal Fury and Hysteria, now with augments on consideration, Hysteria would be replaced for Exalted Blade, and that's only because Hysteria is spin to win. (x6 hits of 300% damage each, while all of Hysteria's combos are just a solid 100% damage, making them pointless)

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11 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Oh I absolutely read them and I can partially agree with the changes that you and OP are suggesting, it's just that I have nothing to comment about it, is not something that I would 100% agree on but I'm also not going to disagree, I would still prefer my changed for Exalted Blade having more utility and purpose with also huge C waves surrounding Excal that can make him an actual swordsman and a great crowd killer plus the giant shockwave that is built with combo, I just wanted to comment about Exalted Blade being the best exalted weapon.

Currently the worst exalted melees would be Titania's archmelee, Primal Fury and Hysteria, now with augments on consideration, Hysteria would be replaced for Exalted Blade, and that's only because Hysteria is spin to win. (x6 hits of 300% damage each, while all of Hysteria's combos are just a solid 100% damage, making them pointless)

Ah I see, overall yeah seems we are pretty much in agreement, as of now range stats not affecting wave size, charge attacks being nonexistant in the combos, slide blind being pointless and only existing for extra energy drain, jump attacks basically doing nothing and also have small range. These are the core issues currently affecting EB, and are the issues I would improve upon to stave off the eventual rework Excal needs for a bit longer. Overall though I think getting rid off EB is a bad idea, as a melee weapon it functions perfectly fine, it just needs a rework in it's utility and "exalted" areas. He's not the only frame though with a bad exalted ability and he's certainly not the worst either. His 1 and 3 definetly need signifcant rework and/ or replacement and are things that I think should be changed first, as they are in a worse state than any other ablities he has.

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