We need more fear in Warframe....

[CrimsonSpawn]

Perhaps, one of the first captura I ever took... anyways, was going through some old pics and found this. So I just started wondering, when was the last time warframe content was actually... scary? I mean, like genuine fear, not... holy shoot look at all these intrinsics i gotta grind for. I mean the kind of fear, where you'd rather run to extraction (RIP gustrag 3) than have to confront the problem? And i don't mean, well i could do it but too much of a hassle. I mean, i got a MK! braton, vanilla excal (unmoded) and the lights just started flickering. While you could argue that that sensation is never really going to be felt by more experienced and engaged players; they'll read up on the wiki; check the tutorials or always have some invincible builds. You could also say, "Why force your player base to experience something like being a newb again" (cause that's the only time lights flickering meant something). Well, i say,,"its when you feel like a newb at something; overcoming it; mastering it, feels hundred times more satisfying". However, content has been more in lined with punishing players than making them afraid. You should be afraid of getting the wrong order of requim mods, cause then the lich will kill you (bane style) but to be fair, they did somewhat fix that. Also, to those players who liked the animation, i did too, but you have to admit that it was punishing you for something upto to RNG. I mean, if you had to figure out the correct order by solving some riddles or using some brain cells, then i can get it. Also, punishment is a very usefull tool in certain circumstances: is very good in forcing players towards correct means of playing.. but creating a fearful experience is something else entirely and has a completely different effect. And i just think in warframe, where literally any weapon and frame can achieve significant mastery over the content... things like the overall experience we have matters more. And in that aspect, this game is significantly lacking in the fear factor.

When i looked at the image, i mean... imagine you see a warframe in game... lose its mind, go berserk... and ends up killing its tenno (forget about the lore for a sec) just picture it. Now come to the realization that this could happen to you. At any time... any mission.. any moment....

And that is the kind of fear i need, to feel mortal and completely defenseless against the very tools that I have built and grown to love (deep inside i'll always be an Excalibur) are suddenly unreliable and now even killing their operator.

Keep in mind, you never really have to die... just seeing tenno around you actually die is enough to build some serious suspense. Finally, thanks for reading till the end, just had this on my mind of the past day or two and needed to write it down somewhere.. thought here would be good enough. Also... even though it may seem as such, this post had nothing to do with the stalker.. the stalker sigil had just dropped for me at the time and I wanted to see how his stuff would look in captura. Please feel free to reply and leave your own thoughts. Game mechanics and lore can be so messy, plus you can literally explain anything away with the secret space sauce 😉, so yeah... Again, thx 🙂

[(PSN)drollive96]

The only time I felt fear was in the chains of Harrow quest

[CrimsonSpawn]

Just now, (PS4)drollive96 said:

The only time I felt fear was in the chains of Harrow quest

i honestly almost S#&$ my pants, when i saw the first blood splatter... but after that, it was just a glorified simarus target quest (complete with kinetic traps)

[(PSN)drollive96]

Just now, CrimsonSpawn said:

i honestly almost S#&$ my pants, when i saw the first blood splatter... but after that, it was just a glorified simarus target quest (complete with kinetic traps)

The first part of the quest was kind of scary but yeah the rest wasnt

[Nez-Kal]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

The first part of the quest was kind of scary but yeah the rest wasnt

Hey, Kiddo.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

Honestly, I originally thought we'd go the Arkham route by instilling fear into our humanoid enemies, but Warframe really does need to capitalize on the horror aesthetic. Chains of Harrow had a neat atmosphere that should be replicated. The perfect way to do that is through the Infested via body horror. Active transformation processes on full display would be a decent start. There's an intensity that Warframe lacks due to the power fantasy aspect people keep raving about.

[CrimsonSpawn]

1 minute ago, (PS4)IndianChiefJeff said:

Honestly, I originally thought we'd go the Arkham route by instilling fear into our humanoid enemies, but Warframe really does need to capitalize on the horror aesthetic. Chains of Harrow had a neat atmosphere that should be replicated. The perfect way to do that is through the Infested via body horror. Active transformation processes on full display would be a decent start. There's an intensity that Warframe lacks due to the power fantasy aspect people keep raving about.

I just did the zenuka today, kuva siphon... and i thought, we should feel bad for the frames that went into making the zanuka hunter... but we don't. While, yes, its pretty old. Even when the trailer for Alad came it, the excal getting... slashed or phased or whatever... didn't really seem all that alarming. And with the second dream, our warframes are basically tools. While the sacrifice did add some human element to them, but only showed umbra's past.... So i was thinking... imagine Alad made a zanuka out of the people of Fortuna or maybe even out of some of the... already damaged ppl of fortuna... *coughs Rud Zudd *coughs. Now that would actually make it a difficult choice to kill this brand of zanuka hunters.

[CrimsonSpawn]

7 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Hey, Kiddo.

cheap jump scares, that i'll have you know, only catch me off guard, when they show up

[Joezone619]

they do. when kuva lichs released i was disappointed they dont ACTUALLY hunt you down and appear in normal mission... you know.... LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TOO!!!!

[kgabor]

I get the impression this is probably the direction they wanted to go with Ghouls and Nox.

In reality, despite being butt ugly, these units don't manage to be scary because of how weak they are compared to the warframes.

Stalker? Gets oneshot from kiddo mode from complete invulnerability.

Manics don't rush at you directly and often just run around to get shot, not sure if this is intentional and an attempt to balance them or it's just that their AI is horrible.

Infested look goofy, the Ancients might look kinda creepy at first if you're a beginner, but as soon as you learn to mod, they are jokes.

Scaled up Ratels are hands down the scariest things in this game, or at least that's how it was before shieldgating. 😂

And Rollers with their staggerlocks.

It's a good thing we got our op mining lasers to counter them.

Anyways, like said we can't have that without some difficulty.

Sortie Lephantis might be close, because of the Derelict tileset atmosphere, but that bossfight is also a faceroll, unless you solo it with no meta gear and it gets old quick if you have it figured out. (though often a bugged mess and not worth the time anyways)

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

If we want to talk about fear and horror DE shound make a game where you play as a corpus crewman on a ship that was hit by the infestation. *cough* Dead Space *cough*

[CrimsonSpawn]

42 minutes ago, kgabor said:

I get the impression this is probably the direction they wanted to go with Ghouls and Nox.

In reality, despite being butt ugly, these units don't manage to be scary because of how weak they are compared to the warframes.

Stalker? Gets oneshot from kiddo mode from complete invulnerability.

Manics don't rush at you directly and often just run around to get shot, not sure if this is intentional and an attempt to balance them or it's just that their AI is horrible.

Infested look goofy, the Ancients might look kinda creepy at first if you're a beginner, but as soon as you learn to mod, they are jokes.

Scaled up Ratels are hands down the scariest things in this game, or at least that's how it was before shieldgating. 😂

And Rollers with their staggerlocks.

It's a good thing we got our op mining lasers to counter them.

Anyways, like said we can't have that without some difficulty.

Sortie Lephantis might be close, because of the Derelict tileset atmosphere, but that bossfight is also a faceroll, unless you solo it with no meta gear and it gets old quick if you have it figured out. (though often a bugged mess and not worth the time anyways)

Its cause of the power we have with our warframes... were literally the most powerful faction... the only way we are going to feel raw fear, is when we lose our tools or we lose our imortality... imagine a kuva lich stealing the weapons you bring into the mission and using them against you... and with each iteration that you defeat them... they just steal the S#&$ you used to kill them, again... now that would be a really annoying and eventually fearful thing to fight (half way through writing, i remembered that was the original plan with the liches... to have them steal your S#&$)

[CrimsonSpawn]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

If we want to talk about fear and horror DE shound make a game where you play as a corpus crewman on a ship that was hit by the infestation. *cough* Dead Space *cough*

I could see this game mode replacing PVP in a heartbeat

[Steel_Rook]

13 hours ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

"its when you feel like a newb at something; overcoming it; mastering it, feels hundred times more satisfying"

Strongly disagree with this statement. You know the last time I felt like a "newb?" When earning Grendel last year. It didn't feel satisfying. It felt cheap, cheesy and cheating. It was the same game with the same rules, except all my stats sucked. It didn't inspire in me a feeling of "Holy S#&$! This was tough! But man, we fought hard!" Nope. It inspired in me a sense of "OK, that's an hour of my life I'm not getting back, but at least I have Grendel now." The only real result was experiencing Warframe at its worst, most tedious and most unrewarding. You overestimate people's fight-or-flight response in regards to video games. Younger or less experienced players might have that response. For me, it's usually one of resignation. "Guess I'll die, then."

Actually, the same applies to the Wolf of Saturn Six. Here I am, playing a low-level Warframe with S#&$ weapons to level up when the Wolf shows up. Is it scary? Am I nervous? No, I'm just frustrated. I know I can't kill him, so I might as well just let him kill me and get it over with. Oh, but it gets worse. I'm an "Inaros Main," so often I'd be playing Inaros whom the Wolf could never kill even if I went AFK, but with terrible weapons with which I couldn't kill him. My only real option, then, is to abort the mission. Man, so tense! Well, I suppose I could pull out my Imperator Vandal and trade damage with him for 15 minutes, but that's not scary either. Again - he can't kill me.

And while we're on the subject, I personally didn't find the Chains of Harrow quest "scary," either. Warframe is not a horror game. I can't die, and I'm carrying enough weapons to take over a small country. What could possibly show up that's going to threaten me? I suppose the game could cheese me with some invincible spectre who chases me through the levels (which the Chains of Harrow did), but again - it can't kill me and I can easily outrun it. I suppose it can cheese me by removing my Warframe entirely and forcing me to fight with my unupgraded Operator (which Chains of Harrow did), but the result of that is boring tedium. The final Operator fight involved me failing into success. I'd spawn, shoot a little, die, respawn, shoot a little, die, repeat. You can't die as your Operator in Warframe due to how the system is designed. Losing your Operator returns it to your Warframe which doesn't exist, so the only thing the mission can do is keep respawning you at full health. A dark mission that's devoid of enemies is not scary - not once you realise it's empty, anyway.

"Fear" in video games exists only when you want it to exist. It exists when you go in there wanting to be scared. Because unlike real life or even a movie in theatres, you have the ultimate saving throw: Alt+F4. Scared of the game? Quit and don't play it. That safety net fundamentally undermines any kind of horror. And, with modern gaming, you have another safety net, a well - "the wiki." Scared of a thing? Pause the game (or die and restart), Alt-Tab to the Wiki, figure out exactly how the thing works, cheese it. Trying to force fear into Warframe isn't going to work. The playerbase, by and large, doesn't want it. This game works best as a power fantasy, not as a disempowering horror experience.

[CrimsonSpawn]

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Strongly disagree with this statement. You know the last time I felt like a "newb?" When earning Grendel last year. It didn't feel satisfying. It felt cheap, cheesy and cheating. It was the same game with the same rules, except all my stats sucked. It didn't inspire in me a feeling of "Holy S#&$! This was tough! But man, we fought hard!" Nope. It inspired in me a sense of "OK, that's an hour of my life I'm not getting back, but at least I have Grendel now." The only real result was experiencing Warframe at its worst, most tedious and most unrewarding. You overestimate people's fight-or-flight response in regards to video games. Younger or less experienced players might have that response. For me, it's usually one of resignation. "Guess I'll die, then."

Actually, the same applies to the Wolf of Saturn Six. Here I am, playing a low-level Warframe with S#&$ weapons to level up when the Wolf shows up. Is it scary? Am I nervous? No, I'm just frustrated. I know I can't kill him, so I might as well just let him kill me and get it over with. Oh, but it gets worse. I'm an "Inaros Main," so often I'd be playing Inaros whom the Wolf could never kill even if I went AFK, but with terrible weapons with which I couldn't kill him. My only real option, then, is to abort the mission. Man, so tense! Well, I suppose I could pull out my Imperator Vandal and trade damage with him for 15 minutes, but that's not scary either. Again - he can't kill me.

And while we're on the subject, I personally didn't find the Chains of Harrow quest "scary," either. Warframe is not a horror game. I can't die, and I'm carrying enough weapons to take over a small country. What could possibly show up that's going to threaten me? I suppose the game could cheese me with some invincible spectre who chases me through the levels (which the Chains of Harrow did), but again - it can't kill me and I can easily outrun it. I suppose it can cheese me by removing my Warframe entirely and forcing me to fight with my unupgraded Operator (which Chains of Harrow did), but the result of that is boring tedium. The final Operator fight involved me failing into success. I'd spawn, shoot a little, die, respawn, shoot a little, die, repeat. You can't die as your Operator in Warframe due to how the system is designed. Losing your Operator returns it to your Warframe which doesn't exist, so the only thing the mission can do is keep respawning you at full health. A dark mission that's devoid of enemies is not scary - not once you realise it's empty, anyway.

"Fear" in video games exists only when you want it to exist. It exists when you go in there wanting to be scared. Because unlike real life or even a movie in theatres, you have the ultimate saving throw: Alt+F4. Scared of the game? Quit and don't play it. That safety net fundamentally undermines any kind of horror. And, with modern gaming, you have another safety net, a well - "the wiki." Scared of a thing? Pause the game (or die and restart), Alt-Tab to the Wiki, figure out exactly how the thing works, cheese it. Trying to force fear into Warframe isn't going to work. The playerbase, by and large, doesn't want it. This game works best as a power fantasy, not as a disempowering horror experience.

You've done what i have and almost many older players in warframe do.... dissolved it to its base numbers. By this thinking, the game is no longer a co-op looter shooter, rather just a mod simulator. I throw in these and these mods... and voila, i get these and these results. This synergies well with that arcane or frame and so on. Which explains why you would be upset if an enemy shows up while your ranking up... but it shouldn't be upsetting, i mean.. you obv haven't build it completely yet, so even if you get killed or fail the mission.. all you lose is time... annoying but not really upsetting, and not at all frightening. Also, i can't really speak on the grendel farm cause i haven't farmed him yet, but yeah.. the reason why it didn't feel satisfying, because no matter how much you raise enemy levels or add conditions to missions; they will not turn you into a newb. Because, honestly by now, even 1000 lvl enemies don't really pose all that much of a challenge (with the right squad). Also, throwing your players into a mission type that isn't really fun.. is also not going to make them afraid of it... they just won't have fun. 

And, yes, i agree... players can easily just quit the game.. but there are certain things called catharsis and suspension of disbelief. And if you wan't warframe players to actually feel afraid.. a higher level enemy or mission conditions will not do (we'll always develop metas and find exploits, because we quite clearly understand how to tackle such a problem)... 

To insight real fear in this game, you either have to go lovecraftian (1 option). Make us play with characters that are not immortal (could be considered a sister game or a side game mode to warframe) or finally... make us suffer real consequences, such as, when a warframe is destroyed, its gone (but it can't be, like it is in the game now... you can't just get one touched by an ancient and lose your 8 forma saryn) No, this would have to be a very long event.. where we are constantly under pressure of losing something we have (not like the fomorian invasion) 

Also, to address the statement you disagree with me on, its does apply in real life and fictional ones. But if your player base work really hard at something.. you can't just nerf it. Or introduce a completely new system, where the things you built previously, don't apply. As, while this will incentivize your players to work and farm the new content.. it also says, "the thing you worked on previously is completely useless now". I mean, its like finding a job and realizing everything you had learned in training or have been developing in your personal time.. is completely useless here. So, it does feel awesome to overcome newer obstacles.. but they cannot be cheap imitations of what your player base have already done, otherwise they'll get bored, and they cannot disregard what the player base have already accomplished... Sry for the really long paragraphs and thank you for your reply, they really show that you care about this game.. Thx for reading 🙂 

Also, 1 edit, this response, "guess i'll die then.." is really numbing. As in you haven't really felt all that alive recently. Take a walk, eat something really psicy.. try feeling some ups and downs.. cause when we start to feel numb.. its when we really die. Keep in mind, i could be wrong (I usually am) but take care of yourself, tenno...

Edited June 15, 2020 by CrimsonSpawn

[Aldain]

There's an easy way to get fear in Warframe...just say the 2 words that make people soil their pants every time.

BALANCE ADJUSTMENTS.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

[CrimsonSpawn]

46 minutes ago, Aldain said:

BALANCE ADJUSTMENTS.

You just go around and cut down my entire post to two words... BRAVO. 

[TheNeonGod]

There's nothing to be afraid unless you're a grineer or corpus grunt tried to run for their lives away from a mesa or other nukeframes. Even with a giant Titania stomping on them and  ragdolling them or put them inside of her guns, exalted pistols and used them as ammo. Even with Ash stalking them and stabbing them from out of nowhere. 

[Me.KayOh]

Last time I was genuinely scared in Warframe?

Hummm

Oh. I remember. It was my first meeting with the stalker.

In a void mission.

In 2013.

Those were good times.

I'd love to be scared again, as much as I was back then.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Fear will never happen in Warframe so long as we're borderline gods that OHKO everything. 

[Steel_Rook]

3 hours ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Which explains why you would be upset if an enemy shows up while your ranking up... but it shouldn't be upsetting, i mean.. you obv haven't build it completely yet, so even if you get killed or fail the mission.. all you lose is time... annoying but not really upsetting, and not at all frightening.

Of course. I knew my weapons were trash. It's why I went to a low-level mission - so I could level them up against enemies I could actually hurt. Then the Wolf shows up, and I now need to spend 20 minutes chipping away at his health. I knew the weapons were garbage, which is why I didn't go fighting an end game boss with them. Now contrast this with his dedicated Assassination mission. For that one, I knew I was going to fight the Wolf, so I packed a decent anti-armour weapon. The experience was a lot more positive that time around - because I knew what I was preparing for.

 

3 hours ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

And, yes, i agree... players can easily just quit the game.. but there are certain things called catharsis and suspension of disbelief. And if you wan't warframe players to actually feel afraid.. a higher level enemy or mission conditions will not do (we'll always develop metas and find exploits, because we quite clearly understand how to tackle such a problem)... 

But that's the core problem of your suggestion. In order to "frighten" players, you need said players to play along. I don't want to be frightened, I refuse to play along, so any kind of "frightening" content you design is going to land somewhere between "frustrating" and "screw that" for me. You can't scare me, only waste my time and patience. And no, that's not because I'm brave or anything of the sort. Rather, you can't scare me because I'm not looking to be scared.

The same goes for any other type of gameplay. DE tried to implement fishing and mining because World of Warcraft to give us some non-combat activities, and people almost universally rejected all of it. Some put up with it, some didn't bother. Sure, some people really enjoyed those activities and to each their own. But there's a reason the Exploiter Orb and Tusk Thumpers exist - because forcing people into the standard MMO "medieval villager simulator" gameplay generally doesn't work. People came here for combat, not foraging. Now it stands as an option for those who like it, in addition to the standard combat option. The same applies to story as well, by the way. People who don't care about the narrative are going to ignore it and find long cutscenes disruptive.

If people want to be frightened of Warframe, there are any number of self-imposed challenges which can accomplish this. You're not going to make that happen through game mechanics.

 

3 hours ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

or finally... make us suffer real consequences, such as, when a warframe is destroyed, its gone (but it can't be, like it is in the game now... you can't just get one touched by an ancient and lose your 8 forma saryn) No, this would have to be a very long event.. where we are constantly under pressure of losing something we have (not like the fomorian invasion) 

Yeah, that's not gonna' happen. Ever. Suppose I bought a Prime Access Pack for $80, then went on your theoretical event. I make a mistake, I die, I lose $80's worth of content just like that. How well do you think that's going to go over with people? It doesn't matter how many signposts you put up or how much you warn people. Removing content which some of us have paid real actual money for is a non-starter. Not that games haven't done that, mind you. I remember a fair few "F2P" Battle Royale games back in the day selling you items which you can lose on death. I have fond memories of the late TotalBiscuit exploring The War Z which had similar mechanics. Like in that game, monetisation systems which let you pay not-insignificant money for items then threaten to take those away from you are unpopular. And that was 8 years ago. Do that now, and you can expect Jim Sterling to pick it up next Monday. And he will, given he used to praise DE back when he still talked about video games.

That said, sure. Threatening to delete my Arcane Grace that I paid 1700 Plat for (yeah, I got ripped off) is scary. Of course it is. It's also SUCH bad PR that I can damn near guarantee you'll see an instant drop in concurrent players the moment such an idea is even floated, much less implemented. Look at actual precedent. A few months ago, DE proposed adding "Umbral Upgrades" into the Lua Disruption drop tables. You know, that rental which would upgrade your Warframe to an Umbral status for a week, then it disappears and you have to buy it again? Yeah, that got such extreme backlash (as it should, it is a #*!%ing rental) that DE pulled it and replaced it with Universal Medallions. It simply wouldn't fly.

Actually, here's another example. A friend of mine used to play Lineage 2 back in the dark ages of Korean grindfest MMOs. That game had an upgrade system where you had to roll RNG to see if your item would be upgraded, or break and disappear from your inventory. The more upgrades you put on your item, the higher the failure chance. I took one look at that mechanic and "noped" right out of the game forever, but my friend stuck with it... Up until he lost virtually his entire armour set. Then he ragequit and never looked back. Again - this sort of mechanic is "scary," but it doesn't make for compelling gameplay. It's "scary" in the same way as downloading illegal warez from shady torrent sites in the 90s. Will I get a cool game for free, or will I get a virus which wipes my hard drive and short-circuits my motherboard? Ooh, scary!

Wasting people's time and - worse - wasting people's money is not compelling gameplay.

 

3 hours ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Also, 1 edit, this response, "guess i'll die then.." is really numbing. As in you haven't really felt all that alive recently. Take a walk, eat something really psicy.. try feeling some ups and downs.. cause when we start to feel numb.. its when we really die. Keep in mind, i could be wrong (I usually am) but take care of yourself, tenno...

You drastically misunderstood what I was saying. This isn't a sign of depression. It's me looking at a situation and accurately assessing my options. When the Wolf shows up in my mission and I lack the weapons to kill him, my options are to abort mission or die. Since I don't want to abort mission and lose progress, I choose to die because the revival penalty is smaller in comparison. If you put me in a "frightening" situation, that's going to be my response. "Well, I tried everything I could and it's not working. Guess I'll die." If you then add monetary and time penalties on top of that, you're just making it worse. You're not putting me in a situation of "ZOMG! I'll lose my Inaros!" You're putting me in a siltation of "OK, if I actually lose this, I'm done with the game."

Also, what the hell are you talking about? "Felt alive?" Do you presume I'm going through some kind of midlife crisis? I don't play video games to "feel alive." They're entertainment, a toy I buy for myself because it's fun, because it's funny or because it has compelling mechanics. I spent probably 30 hours in Factorio recently trying to upgrade to Nuclear power. I didn't "feel alive" at any point in the experience, but I don't regret doing any of it. I don't know. When's the last time you "felt alive" while having breakfast or driving to work? When's the last time you "felt alive" watching the news? I don't go out bungee jumping or parachuting. Hell, I don't even play competitive games for the most part. "Feel alive" doesn't enter into it.

Seriously, what even is this? I'm not upset at this, just confused. It sounds like you're trying to psychoanalyse me and project some kind of personal reason why I wouldn't appreciate "fear" in video games, when it really is as simple as I've described it above. Video games as entertainment can't scare me unless they threaten to cost me time and money, at which the issue leaves the field of video games entirely, and enters the field of customer service.

[CrimsonSpawn]

I'm sorry, abit lazy, so forgive me if i don't link everything....

Alright, you can't be scared because your not looking for it (i don't agree with this) but its one of the reasons why you don't really want scary or fearful content in warframe... because it will manifest between "frightening" or "screw that".....

Well, just to reiterate, that type of content is not scary, its just punishing you for doing something wrong. The whole point behind fear is that the threat of something bad is going to happen (exists) and is constantly being loomed over your head (that paper i gotta study for, hope that blood test comes back negative, hope that spider sticks to his corner while i sleep) whether if the threat and consequences actually take place are up to the creator... but the threat of it occurring matters far more than it actually happening.  Kind of like the ticking of a bomb.. (very cliche'd example)

Also, while talking about actual consequences and losing your stuff, your quite right. If you paid for some content and it ended up getting destroyed or lost, due to one simple error (you gave multiple examples), the game would lose quite alot of players... which is why, if you want to properly implement such consequences you have to be smart about it and can't just say, "oh this game tried to do it and it failed" the year was different, players were different and times were different. It would be more productive to look at what went wrong and why it went wrong, when trying to implement or when proposing some similar game mechanic or concept. In the case of Lineage 2 (i'm using the info you mentioned) you can easily tell that they were trying to capture the thrill of the slot machine (you win some, you lose some) but the player base they had... didn't want a slot machine mechanic in their game.. so it probably flopped.

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

If people want to be frightened of Warframe, there are any number of self-imposed challenges which can accomplish this. You're not going to make that happen through game mechanics.

I mean, do ppl really feel frightened by challenging themselves to how many hours of endless or just this boss with just this wep or mod?

And you can easily make in game mechanics scary... imagine the requim mods order was based off of things your lich says (or maybe their on the lich's syandana... take your pick.. basically, anything that requires you to figure it out than have to leave it up to RNG) and each time you get the requim wrong, the lich doesn't kill you (because that would be punishing you for doing the exact thing your suppose to) rather takes one of your weapons and now its stolen. Each time you get the order or mod wrong, the lich takes another weapon, slowly begins to take weapons from your arsenal (that you didn't even bring into the mission) then even ends up taking some of your frames.. and why not even mods. The lich even ends up utilizing warframe abilities (from the frames it has stolen) and uses your weapons and builds against you.

Obviously, the only way players would even want to pursue such a system, would be the guarantee that you get it all back once you defeat the lich, and worth it rewards.... like riven stat fixers or fixed kuva intake (amount of kuva is fixed for 1 riven that your rolling)... Also, just thought of rewards off the top of my head, so may not be viable.

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, that's not gonna' happen.

It doesn't matter, these are just ideas floating in the air, you can shoot them down or see how they float... i mean if the real;ly really wise and viable ideas never get implemented; me just thinking some stuff up is probably not gonna get all that much of a chance. So why do it, cause its fun to communicate? i guess?

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

You drastically misunderstood what I was saying.

I apologize, but please don't read too much into that statement.. i just wanted to know if you were ok (and you obviously are) but I've developed the bad habit, in past 2-3 months, of getting alarmed over the tiniest of comments. Again i'm very sorry that i was intruding into your personal life..

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Also, what the hell are you talking about? "Felt alive?"

I obviously didn't mean that you should feel invigorated by playing this game. As you said, they have entertainment value and are an escape. But as human beings our moods are not so simple... we can easily be happy somewhere due to a series of events that happened elsewhere and vice versa sad, angry, or upset. Because you responded quite critically to a statement that i have experienced countless times in my life (the newb thing) in your first comment, i assumed it was probably because you were agitated by something elsewhere. However, on reading you 2nd reply, i realized i was wrong, rather you had experience with some of the ideas that i had proposed for the game. And those experiences were quite negative... so, i want you to know that even after reading those events... i still think it can be implemented in warframe. Simply because, if a good idea has not been implemented correctly, doesn't mean its a bad idea. Also, i am yet to see any kind of example where fear, built simply on the suspense of things getting progressively worse and ultimately arriving at the inevitable conclusion (as previously mentioned) has failed.

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Seriously, what even is this? I'm not upset at this, just confused. It sounds like you're trying to psychoanalyse me and project some kind of personal reason why I wouldn't appreciate "fear" in video games, when it really is as simple as I've described it above. Video games as entertainment can't scare me unless they threaten to cost me time and money, at which the issue leaves the field of video games entirely, and enters the field of customer service.

Don't get confused.. i'm just talking. Video games are meant to create an experience for the consumer. Some may not wan't to experience certain things and that's alright.. but keep in mind, i'm not a developer.. I am the consumer... And i wan't to experience real fear in warframe, not just hassle or risk assessment. And, yes, we can argue over the mechanics and how exactly this fear would manifest itself, but i still want it baby, whether if i actually get it or not is entirely upto the devs and this community as a whole. Not just you or me....

[CrimsonSpawn]

3 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Fear will never happen in Warframe so long as we're borderline gods that OHKO everything. 

Well, make god bleed and you show that he can be killed... or ya know, just throw in some chuthulu every now and then

[CrimsonSpawn]

4 hours ago, Me.KayOh said:

Last time I was genuinely scared in Warframe?

Hummm

Oh. I remember. It was my first meeting with the stalker.

In a void mission.

In 2013.

Those were good times.

I'd love to be scared again, as much as I was back then.

I think it was a Mars mission, when stalker had popped my Rhino's cherry. Ironically, it was because i had just spammed the Jackal... But yeah, I had never really dealt with the Stalker before... but just my bro telling me how Op he was at the time... made me wanna steer clear of him always