MR Tests: Stop punishing players for there playstyle

[(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

MR testing is a joke.

It's an artificial way to force you NOT to power level through the entire game.

You have to stop, beat a stupidly broken test, before you can move on gaining more mastery/daily cap levels/ and access to better gear and frames.

It needs to be removed. This game has been out so long, wrgaf if someone want's to power level all the way to the end?

I don't. Most of this game is trivial BS that just makes the game drag arse.

People want to get to end game/late game features.

NOT BE STUCK on some stupid test!

Hell, the game is so dead on the low end most days, you can run for hours before anybody joins you on a mission/survival/defense, or what not. That is, unless you got a huge friends list, and who may/may not want to assist you.

There are not that many low levels left in game playing the "STAR CHART".

For a coop game, unless my friends are on, it's 90% solo play most days....

Not good when you know the mission is a mf'er, and really need help to get through it.

Just saying, MR's should be removed.

Only the "elitist" gaf about them anymore.

It’s not that bad. I think the test are good because they make leveling up more meaningful and rewarding.plus you only really need to like mr 15 or 16 to unlock everything in the game otherwise their just their to show off that you got a lot of stuff and to look cool with a new emblem.

[(PSN)JohnWickHitman]

18 hours ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

It’s not that bad. I think the test are good because they make leveling up more meaningful and rewarding.plus you only really need to like mr 15 or 16 to unlock everything in the game otherwise their just their to show off that you got a lot of stuff and to look cool with a new emblem.

And reaching that point requires making the game a J-O-B.

I'm not about to "Level" weapons I don't want to use, frames that I dislike to move up.

I'm here for fun, escape from R/L BS. This isn't a J-O-B to me.

All of it should be removed, MR testing and Mastery rank.

Allow straight up leveling, reach level 30 on gear(keep forma set up), mastery turned into faster xp gains and move on up. Instead of stopping at MR 30, turn it into pure Levels, out to 50, and give a tiny perk each level up. Oh, lets say, + x armor, hp, shield, energy, damage buffing and speed increases. Alternate each time you level up. You get 2, then next level up another 2, so on so forth.

This system IMO is outdated..

Game is fun, but the grind is becoming unbearably BORING!

Fix it already!

[ES-Flinter]

@(PS4)JohnWickHitmanThe Master system is outdated. But it's until now the only solution to prevent newcomer from never learning.

Like I already told in an other thread with the same topic. Someone who don't know the basic steahlt mechanics will hardly survive if he lost his energy, because of an magnetic proc or if he is inside a nullifer bubble. Someone who can't do basic parcour elements will fall behind and if he dies nobody is going to revive him, behamse he is to far away.

Actually it can also be said that the weapon are a reward for leaning the game and investing time in it. Why should someone get rewarded with one of the strongest weapon, if he isn't interested enough to learn some core mechanics?

17 hours ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

-snip-

Warframe is 90% farming. If you don't like it you should really think if Warframe is the right game for you. Otherwise you can just do it like me. Play if you want to play and gind if you want to grind. It takes much longer, but thanks to this I never had to make a pause of Warframe since seven years. (Except for now, but this is the fault of corona. I have now enough time to play more than four hours every day. Before it was only one.)

[GreyDeath789]

To the OP and others expressing frustration with the MR tests...learning the game mechanics isn't a bad thing...which is what the MR tests are suppose to reinforce.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

MR testing is a joke.

It's an artificial way to force you NOT to power level through the entire game.

You have to stop, beat a stupidly broken test, before you can move on gaining more mastery/daily cap levels/ and access to better gear and frames.

It needs to be removed. This game has been out so long, wrgaf if someone want's to power level all the way to the end?

I don't. Most of this game is trivial BS that just makes the game drag arse.

People want to get to end game/late game features.

NOT BE STUCK on some stupid test!

This argument seems old...the "power level" in Warframe you would have to level up warframes, weapons, etc. to gain the affinity...and this claim that the 24 lockout between MR tests is some how forcing the player to wait an excessive amount of time. Certainly at early MR levels it might be a delay but as a player progressing into higher level MR tests the amount of affinity needed becomes the delay doesn't it?

MR 10 - 52500

To get 52500 points would require fulling ranking 18 weapons. Or a mix of the various affinity items.

MR 20 - 102,500

To get 102500 points would require fulling ranking over 34 weapons. Or a mix of items.

Since there are 441 total weapons (some may not be available anymore?) in Warframe (updated total?) it is possible to get 1,323,000 points leveling up all the weapons which would get a player to MR 23...add in the various warframes along the way.

Assuming a player has all the weapons and plays 24x7 that would mean (no MR test 24 hour lockout) it could be possible to "power level" to MR 23 in under 5 days. (15 minutes to max a weapon). Probably faster since leveling 3 weapons at a time could make this even faster.

In PoE apparently players can level from 1 to over 90 in about 4 hours if they have the items they need to help and they know exactly the path to setup for skills, etc...which any new player to the game would probably not know unless they find a guide/video showing them how to setup the builds for the "power level" run.

In WoW apparently players can level from 1 to 120 in either 12 hours with the right setup to around 54 hours with the 'right items'...

To reach MR 29 in Warframe without MR tests it takes a total of 2,102,500 points which means all weapons, all warframes, and most of the rest of the things...Kubrows, Kavats, MOAs, sentinels, etc. to have enough points.

In all three cases if a player new to the game levels up as fast as possible (no blocks to the progression) it makes me wonder how knowledgeable they are with the game? Being MR 29 with 336 (14 days played?) hours would be 'impressive' to see but would the player know how to actually play Warframe? I mean standing around in Hydron for most of the 336 hours to "power level" means they have little actual experience in missions like spy, etc. Yet the hope is they have cleared the star chart during those 336 hours...even if "friends" carry them through the missions.

The numbers for PoE and WoW talk about a player leveling up an alt which implies the player has spent time playing the game and wants to play another type of character or "box" multiple characters...

In other threads where people complain about the lockout someone suggested letting players pay platinum to skip the MR lockout or the test entirely (I forget the exact suggestion)...but assumes the player has platinum...which means either a friend gives them platinum or they buy it from DE.

In the end, "power level" to the "end game' in Warframe means the player is probably not really capable of even having builds that are useful in "end game" content.

If a player fails an MR test (they are "stupid easy" according to some) doesn't that sort of say that the player needs to learn the game mechanic better (or not have "bad luck" during the test)?

And on the topic of Warframe having "been out so long"...hehe...it is only seven years old.

EverQuest Mar 1999

• Introduced "heroic characters" that start at level 85 in Mar 2014...15 years after the game came out...

EVE Online May 2003

• An incredibly hard game to "level" up quickly and apparently it would take 25 years to 'max' every skill or spend over $21k USD for 'injectors'

WoW Nov 2004

PoE Oct 2013

Warframe Mar 2013

This desire to skip actually playing the game for Warframe is a silly argument given it doesn't take years to level up like it can on some games...

45 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

Hell, the game is so dead on the low end most days, you can run for hours before anybody joins you on a mission/survival/defense, or what not. That is, unless you got a huge friends list, and who may/may not want to assist you.

There are not that many low levels left in game playing the "STAR CHART".

For a coop game, unless my friends are on, it's 90% solo play most days....

Not good when you know the mission is a mf'er, and really need help to get through it.

Just saying, MR's should be removed.

Only the "elitist" gaf about them anymore.

The inability to find squads may be PS/4 thing...PC seems to have little issue getting groups in public...except perhaps RJ in the early morning hours US.

And most of Warframe can be done solo...unless the player doesn't know how to make builds, leverage abilities, etc because all they have done is get "power level" help from friends.

Why is it an "elitist" thing when someone suggests that passing the MR tests demonstrates the player has learned that game mechanic?

45 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

And FYI, testing has run off more players than it's kept.

I know 6 of my friends left by MR3. They wanted to level up, NOT be tested every time, fail, and have to wait 24 BS hrs to continue leveling.

REMOVE MR TESTING!

REMOVE MR TESTING!

If your friends failed MR tests at MR 3 perhaps they didn't learn the mechanics of Warframe well enough...and didn't bother to do the practice option on the MR tests?

Oh and this is at least the second time you have mentioned not being able to "continue leveling"...and while the 24 hour lockout does prevent a player from gaining a new MR level it does not prevent them from getting the affinity for higher MRs. So if a new player fails an MR test and is getting "power level" help...that player can keep getting more affinity while waiting for the next test window...and maybe while they are at it they can learn the skill(s) needed for the test they failed.

The OP and this post don't like the 'delay' because everything must be given to the player in hours? Days at the most?  Well, I guess there are games for those that want to just get to the max level quickly...just not sure what the point is of a game is if you are at the top in a few days...oh wait the point is to make threads about a lack of content!

 

[GreyDeath789]

1 hour ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

And reaching that point requires making the game a J-O-B.

What is your opinion of people that start a new job and expect to be made the CEO in six months?

[VoidArkhangel]

MR tests were designed to prove that you know the game's basics, if you can't pass a test then you missed something.

The majority of tests will not be acording to your playstyle because they will be everything else but a test.

If you don't want to get better at everything then how are you supposed to learn or even enjoy anything? Yes, the mr tests need a rework but the players who think that everything must adapt to them and not vice versa also need a rework.

[SMT5002]

В 26.06.2020 в 05:33, VoidArkhangel сказал:

MR tests were designed to prove that you know the game's basics, if you can't pass a test then you missed something.

Basics do not remove your abilities, companions and weapons. By the time people reach sorties which do, they can have Ivara, mana tablets and Zenurik.

 

If not remove  mastery tests completely, then make practice an actual practice instead of the test but with infinite fails per day. I don't want to load into relay and then start the mission anew every time when I fail to pass the last room.

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

Am 16.6.2020 um 05:10 schrieb KimikoLastchance:

i am looking directly at the Rank 9 test. Stelth is but one style of play and its in general a very boring one with plenty of risks it is also just one tool in a expansive toolbox warframe provides to us as players.  it is also a tool that some players choose to ignore as they do not find it fun. and choose to go in guns and skills blazing and use overwhelming force to overcome a issue which is a more active enjoyable play style for people who approach the game that way.

than we come to this Stealth killing test I personally do not enjoy stealth game play never use it, to mee it feels like its more dependent on dumb luck than any sort of skill  hate being forced to. its no secret these tests are REQUIRED to unlock further progression in the game. last time i looked playing a video game is supposed to be fun than why force people to do things that they do not find fun to progress. and to make matters worse i experienced a loss of turn in this test because the NPC seen me at the same time i was delivering the killing blow

Ultimately a Dead NPC is a dead NPC why does it matter so much how i made them "Lifeus interruptus" tat we have to be tested on it before we can hold better weapons in our hands ? i understand the you must have leveled so many things to progress but these tests just suck

mastery ranks are to prove you have managed a certain level of knowledge/ability.. nothing else, nothing more...

maybe some are a little annoying - like the small stealth test - but thats nothing what is so hard someone can't managed that... 

having an option to overwelm that system just make it useless (or better: more useless as it already is...)

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Unless they fixed the buggyness and ai hyper awareness. The test is a pain. Doable but a pain.

The game requires at times players to change their loadout to achieve a goal.

I suggest gunblades with banshee or glaives for the test.

[OmegaVoid]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

Unless they fixed the buggyness and ai hyper awareness. The test is a pain. Doable but a pain.

I checked a couple of months back, and they'd fixed the hyper-awareness. Unless it got borked again, enemies are back to being half-blind.

My old route through the MR19 test works again, which it totally didn't while the AI was hawk-eyed.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

38 minutes ago, OmegaVoid said:

I checked a couple of months back, and they'd fixed the hyper-awareness. Unless it got borked again, enemies are back to being half-blind.

My old route through the MR19 test works again, which it totally didn't while the AI was hawk-eyed.

Thats good to know. I wonder if mr 19 will let me snipe them from the start with a gunblade still. Or if thats still buggy.

[Twilight-Knight]

This game is NOT for OP, and especially not for the guy name JohnWichHitman , an insect look up to a giant and it's adrenaline went insane.
Current MR is terrible and inappropriate due to the idea of farming Mastery Rank, a title which saying NOTHING about you except the fact you are a high rank master but you stupidly bleedout or the things you use is too mechanic with the mission.

[(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn]

Mr is a bad system I think it makes the items you achieve as only mr fodder rather then the game showing the appreciation and value of achieving the item itself. It makes the player ruch to get to that level rather then having enjoyment with said item they achieved. But hey I buy into to the mr system and I’m trying to get to mr24 so I’m a hypocrite lol.

[Pizzarugi]

On 2020-06-16 at 12:36 AM, taiiat said:

that's the point of Mastery Tests. to test you on the various aspects of the game that are useful, important, and/or required for Players to do everything in the game.

What, exactly, is in the game that requires stealth? Please don't answer with spy, because anyone with enough experience can just bulldoze through the security screens and hack the consoles before the data gets scrubbed. Same with rescue, especially in sorties.

I'd get your point if stealth was required in some missions, but it's just not the case. You can beat the game entirely by throwing caution to the wind and go in guns blazing. It isn't useful or important either.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

What, exactly, is in the game that requires stealth? Please don't answer with spy, because anyone with enough experience can just bulldoze through the security screens and hack the consoles before the data gets scrubbed. Same with rescue, especially in sorties.

I'd get your point if stealth was required in some missions, but it's just not the case. You can beat the game entirely by throwing caution to the wind and go in guns blazing. It isn't useful or important either.

you can still get the participation ribbon while not using many of the tools in the game.
let's try this again and maybe you'll read it the second time.

aspects that are useful, important, and/or required.
scan your eyes across it a few extra times if you have to, to make sure that you read all of the words there.

[Pizzarugi]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

aspects that are useful, important, and/or required.
scan your eyes across it a few extra times if you have to, to make sure that you read all of the words there.

Stealth is none of these, but okay.

[taiiat]

3 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Stealth is none of these, but okay.

sounds like your definition of these things is out of context of how they are used in Warframe. i'd expect someone that's been around so long to know how Warframe uses the various tropes in which it contains.

[Pizzarugi]

29 minutes ago, taiiat said:

sounds like your definition of these things is out of context of how they are used in Warframe. i'd expect someone that's been around so long to know how Warframe uses the various tropes in which it contains.

I do. Again, stealth as defined in MR9 test is none of the things you mentioned.

Meanwhile in the rest of the game, you have access to abilities that augment stealth, but is still not the stealth in that MR test. That raw kind of stealth has no purpose in the game and exists purely as a gimmick which you also have to run through as a test. DE could remove it and have enemies always alerted to you, and nothing would be lost.

[taiiat]

19 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

DE could remove it and have enemies always alerted to you, and nothing would be lost.

well, there's no point in me typing anything further, i'm talking to a wall.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb taiiat:

well, there's no point in me typing anything further, i'm talking to a wall.

May I try it? If there's one thing that I know than that the best way to destroy a wall is smashing an other wall against it.😉😉😉

vor 47 Minuten schrieb Pizzarugi:

Meanwhile in the rest of the game, you have access to abilities that augment stealth, but is still not the stealth in that MR test. That raw kind of stealth has no purpose in the game and exists purely as a gimmick which you also have to run through as a test. DE could remove it and have enemies always alerted to you, and nothing would be lost.

If I understand you right you are saying that stealth is an unneeded gimmick ingame. In the most times it faster to just use abilities or go the rough way. I would like to disagree, but you are right. But you forgot something.

Parcour is also just an uneeded gimmick. Why should someone learn to combine all the parcour options if it's faster to use an ability like cloud walker, mach rush, wormhole,... . And let's not forget that we have operators. Void dash make parcour completely irrelevant. Last but not least we also have archwing and k-drives.

Guns are also unneded. Why spending bullets instead of just one hitting the enemy with a sword or an ability. Melee has much higher damage and bigger range compared to guns. The only times where guns are needed is to destroy the button from the fight against Kela de thaym and in the one or other Mr. Test.

I would say DE should just get rid of stealth, parcour and guns. We already have much better and easier options. Actually they can get rid of everything except of wukong. He can play the game for you and make everything irrelevant. 

[Pizzarugi]

42 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Parcour is also just an uneeded gimmick. Why should someone learn to combine all the parcour options if it's faster to use an ability like cloud walker, mach rush, wormhole,... . And let's not forget that we have operators. Void dash make parcour completely irrelevant. Last but not least we also have archwing and k-drives.

While I would agree, there is a difference between stealth and parkour. A lot of tilesets DE has been adding or reworking have been made in such a way as to encourage the use of parkour. Take the gas city as an example, there's some tiles where you need to utilize parkour in order to cross massive gaps (unless you're using a handful of frames). This is of course assuming you also haven't unlocked Operators yet in order to use Void Dash. Even before Parkour 2.0, it still had its uses in climbing up walls to reach hidden locations. The Void tileset utilized this old mechanic to its fullest, going so far as to have obstacle courses which have all been rendered obsolete since the overhaul along with Void Dash. Given enough time, I'm sure DE will overhaul the Void tileset to better utilize the new system.

As for Archwing and K-Drives, those are limited to open-world regions which are meant for traveling large distances. And you can't base parkour being useless by using mobility skills from some frames.

When you look at stealth, however, there is nothing justifying its existence since the beginning. I've been playing this game for as long as we've had founder packs and in none of the missions I've done, there was no tileset or mission that failed if you got spotted by an enemy or were shot at. If DE added a mission or condition where you can't be spotted in any form or the mission instantly fails, just like the MR9 test, that would be a different story.

42 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Guns are also unneded. Why spending bullets instead of just one hitting the enemy with a sword or an ability. Melee has much higher damage and bigger range compared to guns. The only times where guns are needed is to destroy the button from the fight against Kela de thaym and in the one or other Mr. Test.

This is more of an issue on game balance more than anything. If you knew me and the things I often talk about in these forums, you'll find that I'm almost constantly criticizing how absurdly overtuned this game's balance is, specifically around players spamming spin attacks to 1shot large groups of enemies or running press-4-to-win frames to annihilate entire rooms.

Way back in the day, guns weren't bad compared to abilities, because abilities had limitations set in place such as cooldowns, no Zenurik focus, no Arcane Energize, weak energy pizzas, things that overall presented a limited energy economy to prevent players from spamming an "I win" button. There's also the case one could make about how much of an impact corrupted mods have made in this regard too.

And lest I forget: The enemy armor scaling nerf isn't helping at all. Now that Grineer are just as pathetic as the other factions, guns are even less needed to bypass defenses by melting it down with corrosive.

Poor game balance doesn't make guns a useless gimmick, not when the solution is to actually nerf the problems so they're on equal footing. 😛

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

well, there's no point in me typing anything further, i'm talking to a wall.

What a shame. Perhaps if you invested more of your time actually explaining your arguments instead of making vague insults like "read this again" or "I'd expected more from someone who played so long", you'd get better responses.

I expected better from someone who's posted 27k times. 😛

[DatDarkOne]

18 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

If DE added a mission or condition where you can't be spotted in any form or the mission instantly fails, just like the MR9 test, that would be a different story.

I would truly love it if DE did do just that.  But you as a long time player should already know that the forums will scream bloody murder and bring out pickforks if DE make any change that forces a people to think even a little bit.  

Because they decided to be forgiving and gave an option to not lose rewards for not using Stealth, they allowed players to chose to completely ignore it without any consequences.  This is to try to appeal to "everyone". 

Having said that, I can honestly say that Stealth plays a much larger role in solo play than it does in group play.  People love to spit out the statement "WarFrame is a co-op game".  But in truth WF was designed more as a solo game with the option to co-op.  When you look at it that way, then a lot of the design desicions of the maps, frames, powers, etc start making much more sense.  

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Because they decided to be forgiving and gave an option to not lose rewards for not using Stealth, they allowed players to chose to completely ignore it without any consequences.  This is to try to appeal to "everyone". 

Agreed, and as a consequence, the MR9 test is thrown at you without any warning when you never needed to use it before. This results in a jarring experience that was never practiced prior and will never be practiced again. Most of the other MR tests make sense in the context of the game, but MR9 stands out as something that shouldn't exist.

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Having said that, I can honestly say that Stealth plays a much larger role in solo play than it does in group play.

This I'm not so sure about, even looking at a solo perspective. I can agree that it's pointless in groups since players won't care about completing a mission unnoticed. In solo, most enemies still don't really pose much of a threat that you need to be sneaky, plus it's impossible to do in endless missions unless you run specific frames such as Loki.

[DatDarkOne]

32 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

In solo, most enemies still don't really pose much of a threat that you need to be sneaky,

In solo it makes more since to use stealth as a way to not get overwhelmed (depending on frame being used) by enemies.  Do you have to use it?  No, but it was a viable playstyle alternative to the Leeroy Jenkins style used by most today.  I say was because before DE changed Enemy Detection Awareness, you could use Stealth tactics with any frame without needing to be invisible.  

35 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

plus it's impossible to do in endless missions unless you run specific frames such as Loki.

By the very nature of the objective in Endless missions Stealth playstyle wasn't an option from the get go.  I'm referring to tactical stealth and not invisibility as Stealth.  

Side note: Did you know that it use to be possible to stealth all of the Capture missions and stealth kill the target.  This was up until DE gave the target omniscience to detect you no matter what upon entering the room.  There was no bonus for doing this, but it was fun as hell for me.  😛  

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

Perhaps if you invested more of your time actually explaining your arguments 

If DE added a mission or condition where you can't be spotted in any form or the mission instantly fails, just like the MR9 test, that would be a different story.

it should be a pretty simple concept as to what Stealth is useful for, i make some assumptions when i'm talking to people that i expect know what they're doing.

let's try it this way then - by your description of "how Stealth could be useful" shows that you're ignoring anything that isn't a binary of whether you can complete a Mission or not.
since that's all you consider relevant, in most Missions we almost don't even need Weapons and rarely need Abilities, since Killing Enemies doesn't actually matter to completing the Mission.
Warframe has a lot more to what a Player will want/need to do than just Mission completion, it's a game that features a lot of grinding and other repetition features after all. it should be pretty obvious what Stealth can offer to a Player, and also that in Warframe Stealth isn't Splinter Cell: Space future, that's not what Players must do to take advantage of Stealth in this game, and i would be really surprised if you are as entirely unaware of this as you're making it sound like.
i repeat, Stealth in Warframe is not only useful in trying to roleplay as Splinter Cell.