phoenix1992 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Crucify me if you want but "back in my day" it wasn't nearly as bad. You could argue that the only grind island that was separate from the main content was conclave or the Void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said: Your SPOILED! What would you do without Google/YT?? Buy the game guide or get help in game. Your generation are way to "entitled/elitist" mentality. Buh Bye! How do you know the person's generation though? And what generation are you exactly? I am 40 this year and my first go to is to google or check for wikis/youtube videos when I am confused by something in any video game. Also, calm down. You are way too angry. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Personally I agree that far too much of Warframe is learned outside of the actual game. I've played many games in my time, some more complex than others, but most of Warframe's complexity comes from one of two places, not explaining jack -clem- in a good fashion and absurd under-the-hood mathematical formulae. Naturally, not every person is a professional video game reviewer who needs the game basically played for them, however the it is also true in that many people don't have the time or patience to learn some of the subtle and borderline hidden nuances of Warframe. One of the major issues in new player retention is pacing and lack of direction, outside of "clear the star chart because reasons" there's very little that outlines a clear "path to success" for players. I could only imagine how overwhelming it must be for new players who suddenly stumble upon PoE or Fortuna with a bunch of MK-1 gear and limited mod capacity. The enemy level system also doesn't do a good job of properly curving to a player, things grow at an exponential rate as levels go up which doesn't give good feedback to the player. The difference between level 1 and 50 Lancers for example is 133.33 eHP vs 10,533.81 which is 79ish times the actual health of the level difference, crank that up to 100 and you have 59k health, 443ish times the base level's health. The point I'm trying to make is that things don't grow in a viewable fashion to the player, it often winds up as "Suddenly I'm doing no damage" and when the recommendation is usually to "Read the Wiki" and not much else, why would anyone be surprised that new players would get frustrated and quit. It's like somebody playing baseball for the first time but having none of the rules explained to them, it doesn't foster any chance for growth because it expects people to know everything already. You can't expect somebody to be able to learn algebra when you haven't even taught them 2 + 2 yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Sumosan13 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said: Your SPOILED! What would you do without Google/YT?? Buy the game guide or get help in game. Your generation are way to "entitled/elitist" mentality. Buh Bye! Heh! I'm 47. Without Google "back in my day", we played the game and learned, read the instruction book, used Prima guides...etc. Also, games back in my day weren't nearly as complex. -1 internet for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, (XB1)Sumosan13 said: Heh! I'm 47. Without Google "back in my day", we played the game and learned, read the instruction book, used Prima guides...etc. Also, games back in my day weren't nearly as complex. -1 internet for you. yea official/unofficlal guides, or call the Nintendo Power line. I remember begging my parents a number of times to let me call their pay by the minute number because I was completely stuck. I'm a bit younger than you, though. Not sure if you got to experience that scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condimentking Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Tbh i ended up writing game tips here and there in message board all over the dojo rooms... . I have these 3 simple rules if i make a guideline for newbies in this game: 1. Clear the Star Chart. 2. Explain how the actual levelling system works in this game. 3. "If ur stuck, call me. So many contents and i don't wanna make u dizzy... ." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFaul Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 New players should be introduced to focus farming as soon as possible /grins evilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix1992 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 minute ago, RFaul said: New players should be introduced to focus farming as soon as possible /grins evilly Evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said: And that is YOUR problem. You SHOULDN'T have to go outside of the game. Angry, LMFAO! You haven't seen me angry, so don't poke the bull, you may not like what you get! BUH BYE Master Race Elitist! What is wrong with you? Are you 15 or something? I can't see an adult posting like that though it isn't impossible. Also, I'm not even remotely frightened by you, I think that is a pretty silly thing. To believe that you getting actually angry (as if you aren't already definitely angry) would make me care or something. Also how is being resourceful my problem? Seems like a good thing to me. And frankly, I haven't played a game in recent years where I didn't do some research on it so that I was prepared and knew what I was doing. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Viveeeh Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said: And that is YOUR problem. You SHOULDN'T have to go outside of the game. Angry, LMFAO! You haven't seen me angry, so don't poke the bull, you may not like what you get! BUH BYE Master Race Elitist! I honestly can't decide if this is a troll account. And I am curious. What does it look like, when you're angry? Oh no, don't misunderstand, I don't want to make you angry. That would be entirely in vain, because we are just practically sending eachother letters and pictures, so we definitely can't see how angry you are. Just describe it. Edited June 18, 2020 by (PS4)Viveeeh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 It is frustrating for new players but it’s way better than it use to be a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelfyrePWH Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Isnt the new player experience bad due to the fact that DE actually wants new players to get lost and buy platinum/use the Market as the 'easiest' way for progression? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Sumosan13 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 16 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said: yea official/unofficlal guides, or call the Nintendo Power line. I remember begging my parents a number of times to let me call their pay by the minute number because I was completely stuck. I'm a bit younger than you, though. Not sure if you got to experience that scam. YES!! I had to get my dad's permission to call and he flipped because of the charges!! LOL I even used billboard systems for my Commodore 64 On topic though... 2 hours ago, AngelfyrePWH said: Isnt the new player experience bad due to the fact that DE actually wants new players to get lost and buy platinum/use the Market as the 'easiest' way for progression? I'm speculating but I don't think so. DE has shown to be one of the better companies out there as far as monetization (they disabled a feature long ago because it was a slot-machine type mechanic and people were using it too much, can't remember the specifics though) Being an old programmer, I think it probably comes down to dev time. There's enough in the tutorial to get going as I stated before but would be pretty time consuming to re-do things for new players every time some new mechanic or change is introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroKein Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Elitist I love it. This make my day xD At first I actually actively helping new players answering question in game, help them with missions (especially arching mission what other ppl ignoring) and answering question but that is something you would know if you actually met me in game. And now let me share with you little secret: Google will redirect you to warframe wiki and you can get properly answered your question, get lore and lot of things around specific item On Youtube you can type magic words new players guide warframe 2020. And you get 30 min videos with explaining everything you need to know till end game. If encouraging new players to actively google and watch things to help them seek answer faster and sometimes more effectively then going through many pages on forum and maybe get answer they wanted well yes I do great job and I am elitist. No my fellow Tenno you just supporting one thing make game easier to let newbies get everything on spot and don't let them using some brain power. And now please, please give me one example of complex game that will teach you everything and you never ever look outside of it to get an answer Edited June 18, 2020 by BroKein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroKein Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 17 hours ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said: Your SPOILED! What would you do without Google/YT?? Buy the game guide or get help in game. Your generation are way to "entitled/elitist" mentality. Buh Bye! My generation remember dial up connection and getting information from encyclopaedia. So yes I will survive without google and youtube but everyone in right mind will use internet to seek answer faster and effectively . And my mental state is probably in better shape then yours my fellow Tenno. If you wanna talk about something more personal we are here to listen and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroKein Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, AngelfyrePWH said: Isnt the new player experience bad due to the fact that DE actually wants new players to get lost and buy platinum/use the Market as the 'easiest' way for progression? Honestly DE is on first place company so they have to look for some profit on other hand. As was mention once they realise they implement loot box mechanics they immediately remove it. I personally love work of DE they made for us whole new word but sometimes they have great idea and don't know how to properly deliver it and I think thats the reason why new players are lost. Or maybe because devs are actually hard core warfare players and don't realise that modding and other stuff can new players confuse xD xD In the end we as a community should address this issue with our take on tutorial. So I waiting for idea how to make new tutorial story line or remake Vors prize Edited June 18, 2020 by BroKein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ForNoPurpose Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I wonder how many players quit early on due to the current trade systems, or lack of. If you dont want to sit in TC or use WF market your only options to gets slots is buying plat, at which point the game is no longer f2p. One every several months from nightwave isnt enough, ultimately everyone has to spend plat eventually. I am 100% sure there have been plenty who saw whats in game and said "nope" and immediately left the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroKein Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said: I wonder how many players quit early on due to the current trade systems, or lack of. If you dont want to sit in TC or use WF market your only options to gets slots is buying plat, at which point the game is no longer f2p. One every several months from nightwave isnt enough, ultimately everyone has to spend plat eventually. I am 100% sure there have been plenty who saw whats in game and said "nope" and immediately left the game. I think it’s depend on nature of that person. If he is up to grind than he stay if not he left. Usually if I send someone to WF market they are surprised how “easy” they can get some plat. and again DE is also company they have to make some coins. So I having the idea that direct Plat auction system will make people spend less real plat xD and i am still good buying slots everyday and do some relics to make plat for it;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky5hift Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) I agree that progression in this game is pretty overwhelming to new players unfortunately DE seems to be married to the whole mastery rank system. You could argue that not having a clear cut progression system allows for greater player freedom but its honestly a double-edged sword. Players shouldn't have to have a tab leading to the wiki open in order to understand the game. I think if a game requires that you do this then it is fundamentally flawed in terms of guiding players. Edited June 18, 2020 by Tricky5hift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nslay Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Yep, Jackal (its rework) being on the 2nd planet a new player encounters... yeah, this probably isn't going to help new players stay. It's a great boss fight otherwise! Well, I'll have to try it at non-Sortie levels with a barely modded Excalibur and barely modded Braton just to see. I will try later today! The MR 9 and MR 19 tests as they currently are will not help player retention either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I had a great time as a new player. Dunno, maybe I'm weird. Everything was new. I could tell there was a lot to learn and a hella lotta content to get through, but I didn't feel I had to do it all at once. I could tell this game had enough stuff to keep me going for ages, and it has, nearly 3.5k hours so far and there's still stuff I've not done. I enjoyed the learning process. Having to work things out made everything feel more rewarding when I finally achieved something. The wiki was my friend, and still is. I didn't approach the game as if it was a $60, 50 hour, complete the levels and that's it type of game. It was obvious it was gonna take a long time to get anywhere and that was the appeal, longevity. Maybe it's because I'm a bit older (late 40s), but I'm not impatient and don't want things handed to me. I understand the concept of working towards a goal. And I know the biggest goals are best achieved when broken down into smaller ones. Could the NPE do with some help, yeah. But I'm not for hand holding or simplifying the game to the point players lose the sense of achievement in having to work things out for themselves either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitmanRonin Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 16 hours ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said: And that is YOUR problem. You SHOULDN'T have to go outside of the game. Angry, LMFAO! You haven't seen me angry, so don't poke the bull, you may not like what you get! BUH BYE Master Race Elitist! You still haven't explained why going outside of the game for help is an issue. it's like saying you shouldn't have to go outside of school to get help get all the help from your teachers. Some people dont explain things well so you go look for a source that explains better than what u heard from the people in game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroKein Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Totally agree with Hyperion Rexx in every point. But trend is different since that and we have to move on and make more friendly approach for new players otherwise we end up having same people do some thing forever. I don't think that mastery rank is bad but need changes especially in first 10 ranks. MR1 - Basic stuff, movement system etc. MR2 - Crafting system and how to obtain material MR3 - Modding MR4 - Relics hunting etc. It can still show the progress but be more focused on first few steps. Or make different tutorial story line and I will find good inspiration in first comics. You don't have to be necessary attacked by Vor on start but be awaken get to different Ostron village and step by step by guided by new Quill or any other NPC. And as in comics you can get later attacked by Vor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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