Jump to content

The Deadlock Protocol: Hotfix 28.0.5


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Caius_Fact said:

The Tombfinger/Termor nerf is just an unusually bad judgment call (which I fully expect them to reconsider, based on the feedback in this thread so far), not a pattern of gross mismanagement. I object to an aggrieved rant about DE "doing there best to alienate the player base."

I suppose it can be said that walking in front of speeding car is also a bad judgement call; but it wouldn't be unusual if you have a track record of performing these acts. Maybe if that person is not in control of their mental faculties, it may not be intentional; but still not unusual in the slightest way.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Granum Void enemy count affecting the Exterminate mission objective kill-counts.

If the mission objective is not supposed to progress in the Granum Void, pause Survival life support decay.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Have You changed something in regards to MOA's appearance? I mean specifically MOA made from those brand new parts. Before i restarted the game to apply hotfix my MOA was looking amazing, with really high quality texture. Colours were looking awesome on it, really deep and saturated. Now i logged in after the hotfix, and all that fantastic texture over him is GONE, he is looking like a plastic toy and cannot believe my eyes what happened 😞 I know its not game-breaking issue but i'm missing my gorgeous boi... Just to clarify, everything else is looking as before. Unfortunately i dont have screenshots to show the difference, as i was not expecting something like that may happen

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 2 heures, TheArQu a dit :

Wrong. Fast firing ones have advantage in status application. Which means they can better use viral stacks and their 4,5x damage up

Which is mostly useless on enemies you really need the status for, also a lot of important enemies are completely status-immune (Fortuna spiders, eidolons, arbidrones etc.). Catchmoon and Tombfinger both work better for raw damage and slower-firing versions of rattleguts also can still apply status. I have built several faster-firing kitguns and they really aren't even close to the heavy ones, for one part due to a much lower ability to sustain their damage due to constant reloads, for the other part simply because you don't have to apply status if you can just outright kill your enemies with raw damage, which is pretty much the case right now. The need for status has decreased heavily lately, to the point where I just run crit for all high level activities.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So the Tremor + Catchmoon primary, a full auto plasma shotgun. Awsome idea, right? 
Well..
This thing doesnt have anywhere near enough base damage to warrant this ridiculous recoil.  It's like being inside a giant coctail shaker. That plus the target bouncing all  over  the place from the impact makes it really difficult to get a steady dps.  

Ease up on the recoil or give us a minus recoil mod for shotguns. (so we can actually benefit from that new juicy range)
And most of all, blunderbutt, measly +90% crit? I mean, you just primed a crit shotgun and this is, still, what we have to work with?  😭😭😭

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Caius_Fact said:

I agree. Letting the loudest voices prevail is never a good idea. That's not quite what I meant, though. I ought to be clearer.

My general sense of things was more that the late-game players just assumed that a Bramma nerf was in the pipeline. It was plain as day that it was overperforming relative to other late-game weapons, including other Kuva weapons. I could have been imagining it, but I got the sense that it was borderline crass to bring the Bramma to anything other than a high-level disruption where the insane damage was arguably warranted.

What I was getting at is that it's pretty dubious to paint the Bramma-nerf as some kind of slap in the face to the playerbase. It's something that objectively needed to happen, because the only balanced alternative would have been to introduce or rebalance a slew of weapons to match the Bramma. Between those two choices, scaling back the Bramma was clearly the preferable choice to leaning into the power-creep.

Painting the Bramma-nerf and the Tombfinger-nerf with the same brush feels like crying wolf. Complaining about good changes is a waste of energy that draws attention away from complaints about bad changes.

Oh we totally figured it would be. Stuff like this tends to happen to anything that gets adopted popularity wise by the community as a valid and sought after reward; so yeah we thought that DE and the usual suspects of players/partners would loudly call for its nerfing as happens in every update where such a popularity swing happens - but never too quick as to push away folk willing to spend platinum on those things - in this case, Kuva Bramma was among the last actual additions to the Lich system back in Febuary along with the Kuva Nukor, and Kuva Hind. Lets put it this way, follow the history of folk complaining about "us carrying missile ammo" in our pockets being unrealistic or how the Kulstar was treated with reworks, and the Zarr, you will see the same kinds of threads and the same players usually on the same sides of the debate. So yeah, we thought it was going to get nerfed because we have played long enough and participated in enough threads to know how this kind of deal goes. Experience, a great teacher right? The problem often enough is that such changes are not based on hands-on experience but rather based on usage and popularity charts. Factor in often limited slots, lens for focus, upgrades for the free to play crowd and players in the real game tend to gravitate to new weapons that speak to them and yes, that tends to create huge spikes in usage and popularity charts.

As far as Power creep goes, many players and even up and coming designers tend to get the usage wrong. With "power creep" in a real usage, you have to judge the gear by its predecessors you know, what it creeps from; which in this case is something that is the "vanilla" version of it; as well as its peers or similar "tier" of power. Now with players, level up wise, we have a power plateau, we don't actually get stronger after a point, and only do so by changing the bases, or by being given access to a more powerful version of the same progression mod. In this case, Gimmicks like Conditionals, while assuredly powerful in their own right as they have to be to be usable; they are not progression but things that are blank slots unless you play a particular way. This is what we tend to call a meta-influencer. Essentially what we do in this case is give incentive for playing a certain way, and if the players play that way its exceptable, if they don't then the meta that the designers seek isn't yet achieved, and either it can be nerfing alternatives or pushing the conditionals some more. As they are empty or weaker than normal progression unless used in that particular playstyle. This isn't just a Warframe deal, if you would like to learn much more about the subject, or see it in action, I highly recommend the books and writings of Mark Rosewater of Wizards of the Coast R&D even if you don't agree with his take-away, they are insightful lessons in game design and theory. I highly recommend reading about how the push by Wizards R&D during Onslaught and Mirrodin led to their standard formats becoming wastelands tournament side with really only a few meta pushed deck archetypes being considered viable. The only true example of power creep we really have so far in Warframe, are how primes (mods and gear) and the variant weapons are often treated. In a way, knowing as you do now about player power plateau, I hope you can see why such slow increases are required for a game's health.

I don't paint the folk clamoring for nerfs to be Crying wolf, I know them to be instigators that having been heavily engaged in those threads; just don't like seeing things used by folk they consider rabble. That is why one of the arguments that kept coming up was that lower mastery players shouldn't even be able to fight liches after War Within; not due to you know the Liches being quite capable of beating a player up if unprepared - which I actually thought one player meant once, congratulating them for trying to look out for newer players just trying to rush the chart - but that isn't what they meant. The player and a few others in the same thread just felt that when you see the low master players trying to get something because the partners and community are saying it strong, it loses its luster and elite-ness. Another repeated call was for the mastery lock on the weapon to lock the weapon in the foundry until the player is able, since the player is accessing a higher tier of weapon than mastery might indicate they are ready for. That would assume that the quest weapons or event weapons, or buying gear cared about mastery, or that mastery actually reflected player skill; which it doesn't.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Could someone please link or quote in which patch was the ability to kill errant spectres(particularly in zenith granum void) made much harder, not to mention their capacity to now kill me in a few seconds? Because for the life of me i cant find it in any of the hotfix notes. I just wish to know, because it only came as a rather frustrating surprise as I was well able to do zenith granum void without too much of a struggle just a day or two ago, now it seems to be nigh impossible. Also the standing received per captive freed in zenith granum void does not appear to reward me the 900 per captive, instead i only get 300 per captive (or did I misread or misunderstand something?).

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Tombfinger

  • Charge time decreased from 0.8secs to 0.5secs with Brash Grip.
  • Charge time increased from 0.8secs to 1.1secs with Steadyslam Grip.
  • Charge time increased from 0.8secs to 1.4secs with Tremor Grip.

After farming the resources for my TF, Tremor and Splat, spending the credits, slamming 5 Forma, running the SO to level...………. DE INCREASES the charge time for the Tremor????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF is this? Is this supposedly a good thing? Perhaps I am missing the advantage here. Could a veteran make this make sense, please.  Still can't extract during AW missions on Syrtis, Host Migration during SO/ESO is BROKEN..... You lose the cast abilities or when entering a new zone, leeches and nullifiers are already draining my energy making it impossible for me to cast abilities on a lot of my frames. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Eenbeen said:

Could someone please link or quote in which patch was the ability to kill errant spectres(particularly in zenith granum void) made much harder, not to mention their capacity to now kill me in a few seconds? Because for the life of me i cant find it in any of the hotfix notes. I just wish to know, because it only came as a rather frustrating surprise as I was well able to do zenith granum void without too much of a struggle just a day or two ago, now it seems to be nigh impossible. Also the standing received per captive freed in zenith granum void does not appear to reward me the 900 per captive, instead i only get 300 per captive (or did I misread or misunderstand something?).

I didn't see a line of that, but some players had noticed that the specters did less damage and took less damage from clients and hosts, this could have been normalized by having all take the damage and all do the decreased damage to specters.

Link to post
Share on other sites

wellp.....looks like de gave us all the finger eh?

 

im glad i spent a bunch of hours and a grip of resources obtaining, formaing, and leveling this thing.

another successful endeavor in des never ending campaign against making their game fun.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cha0sWyrM said:

wellp.....looks like de gave us all the finger eh?

 

im glad i spent a bunch of hours and a grip of resources obtaining, formaing, and leveling this thing.

another successful endeavor in des never ending campaign against making their game fun.

I must admit, that is a witty one-liner there ChaosWyrm.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also are errant spectres suppose to scale up from rank 50 spectres to rank 125 spectres as you progress the killcount, because I'm rather certain it didn't do that before today? In zenith void of course.

It may just be, I guess, that something even went wrong before today that made it easier for me to do zenith granum void, I'm just not sure, I was simply just shocked to see I cant do zenith void anymore. So, again, sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gaze is bullcrap. Cause Pistol version has Primed crit modes, has much better Riven dispo, primary gaze has lower range and no chain, also it shoots SLOWER even if it says same 8 firerate. Just check it. Its WORSE in every thing. A primary. Worse than secondary. Why you even created this then??

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Fury said:

Have You changed something in regards to MOA's appearance? I mean specifically MOA made from those brand new parts. Before i restarted the game to apply hotfix my MOA was looking amazing, with really high quality texture. Colours were looking awesome on it, really deep and saturated. Now i logged in after the hotfix, and all that fantastic texture over him is GONE, he is looking like a plastic toy and cannot believe my eyes what happened 😞 I know its not game-breaking issue but i'm missing my gorgeous boi... Just to clarify, everything else is looking as before. Unfortunately i dont have screenshots to show the difference, as i was not expecting something like that may happen

There was something in the patch notes about correcting unintended color behavior with the new components.

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Urlan said:

The problem often enough is that such changes are not based on hands-on experience but rather based on usage and popularity charts.

That's not a terrible way to do it, mind you! I really enjoyed the way Brozime talked about Octavia in his 2020 tier video - "this warframe is overpowered, but no one's using it, so I guess it's not a problem!" And, I mean, he's got a point. "This option is taking over the meta" is a decent working definition for "overpowered." It's even kind of democratic!

The problem, of course, is that something being popular isn't equivalent to "taking over the meta" - Serration is a pretty clear-cut example of that. It's essentially a required inclusion, but that doesn't really hurt the game. That's why you need math, testing, and a robust theory of balance to round out your user analytics.

So yeah, I agree that DE's attention to detail could be a bit better! I don't even think "hands-on experience" is necessarily the issue, here. As I mentioned way back in my initial response, it should have been trivial to see, on paper, why both the original Tombfinger balance and the new balance didn't work. In the first case, all the guns had identical charge-times but different damage outputs, and this afternoon they somehow they ran face-first into the opposite problem - the guns have similar damage outputs and wildly different charge-times.

So yeah, I agree that hands-on experience would be helpful here, but the problem originated well before that. Did nobody think to check the numbers in a spreadsheet? The balance problems should have jumped right off the screen.

Edited by Caius_Fact
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HLixir said:

any plans on changing catchmoon primary mods from shotgun to rifle?

I hope not. I like the shotgun mods on it. Plus, if it switched to rifle, we couldn't skin it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to know Protea changes are in the pipe - She has a very solid core design, just needs a bit of polish to get her to a good place. That aside, could we possibly get a way to release Solaris prisoners in the new tileset without spending a Crown, even if we don't get any Standing for it? It's very annoying that in order to grind for Crowns for other stuff you need to leave them to their fate, often multiple times per mission, and I feel particularly bad about it in Sabotage missions where they wind up stuck on a ship that's about to explode.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mettallus said:

Please look at the falloff on the Stropha gunblade; it is far too short making it a meh weapon.

 

Thx  for all the work

This is a popular opinion but I wholeheartedly disagree. The weapon is essentially a machinegun arca plasmor if built correctly. The community seems to share the misunderstanding that this weapon should be comparable in function to redeemer when, in fact, it is quite different. I've seen multiple youtube people claim the weapon is not very good and then make the assertion that its damage falloff and pathetic damage are to blame when they mod it completely wrong. 

 

You are completely right. The weapon is pretty bad and I think people should avoid using it because it sucks. >.> <.< 

My secret little plasmor sword....

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • [DE]Megan unfeatured, locked and unpinned this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...