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Please do something about khora's whipclaw


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Just now, Traumtulpe said:

You should edit the Wiki then, it says:

"While captured, enemies are strangled by the chains taking 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 damage per second and receive 200% damage from weapons and abilities. In addition, captured enemies have a raised Threat Level, become susceptible to friendly fire, and taunt their former allies into attacking them."

And the wiki states this:

Spoiler

Whipclaw inflicts 200% damage against enemies affected by Ensnare130xDark Ensnare.

And this

Spoiler

If at least one enemy captured by Strangledome130xDark Strangledome is hit by Whipclaw, all other enemies in the same dome will each receive 50% total damage. Additionally, Whipclaw's Critical Chance and Status Chance will reroll on each enemy separately.

 

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Just now, Traumtulpe said:

What part of "200% damage from weapons and abilities" do you not understand?

I've tried it out quickly, and it does not look to be the case for Whipclaw, i may have to correct my correction.

I need more sample size however.

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14 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Enemies affected take double damage, Nullifiers shoot enemies held inside (they become targets for their allies), which is essentially what a Radiation proc does. Extra loot is also nice for energy orbs.

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Seems Whipclaw itself is not affected by the 2x Damage multiplier, that being said it does look like Strangledome does give a 2x multiplier to gun damage.
Once again i have to stress the sample size is terrible so their may be errors.

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2 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Seems Whipclaw itself is not affected by the 2x Damage multiplier

Try it with 2 enemies; If Whipclaw is affected you'd expect one of them to take 100% damage, and the other 200% (relative to the damage without the dome).

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12 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Are you really too daft to read the Wiki?

OK, I see your quote in the Strangledome section. I stand corrected about it not being present. If you want to personally attack me, I can ask the same of you: Did you read the Whipclaw section carefully? Does it state that synergy anywhere beyond Ensare? It's not even listed under the "Misc" portion of the ability (2x for Ensare, 50% Strangledome damage distribution). As far as I know, there is no 2x damage for Strangledome'd enemies. Just Ensare.

I guess we'll have to test this out to figure out which section is right.

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1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Try it with 2 enemies; If Whipclaw is affected you'd expect one of them to take 100% damage, and the other 200% (relative to the damage without the dome).

No the result is the same.

The initial target does not get a 2x multiplier.
And the shared damage is only 50%, even worse it does look like whatever is considered the first target will not self damage for the added +50% that is supposed to spread, this probably to prevent her from doing a exponential damage with the amount of foes.

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2 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

[...]

I suspect that Whipclaw hits the dome itself, not the enemies for some reason. Since enemies not directly hit are supposed to receive 100% damage, which they both do.

That 4k damage is Venari, I guess? Can't really tell.

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1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

I suspect that Whipclaw hits the dome itself, not the enemies for some reason. Since enemies not directly hit are supposed to receive 100% damage, which they both do.

That 4k damage is Venari, I guess? Can't really tell.

No, the 7454 Is Whipclaw.

The 4034 Is 50% Whipclaw distributed damage, for some reason rounding very weirdly.

And it act more that when you hit the "dome", it will consider one foe to be hit, that foe will not get the additional +50% Shared damage, but everyone else will get the Whipclaw damage and the 50% Shared damage.

What i am not sure is why it is rounding to 4034, i think we can all agree that 4034 is not half of 7454. 
I have tried it with two foes, with six foes and nineteen foes. All show the same value.

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8 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

7454

Damage distribution is supposed to be 50% of 200%, so 100% of "no dome" damage. Which, by the looks of it, it is.

If the enemy you actually hit while domed takes 100% + ~50% damage, that is just weird behavior.

Actually, I consider it possible that some of the mods are not applied correctly to part of the main targets damage (due to weird coding by DE). You might want to try again without any mods / ability strength, and see whether that makes a difference. If it doesn't I have no explanation either.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Damage distribution is supposed to be 50% of 200%, so 100% of "no dome" damage. Which, by the looks of it, it is.

If the enemy you actually hit while domed takes 100% + ~50% damage, that is just weird behavior.

No, Enemies get hit 7454 When there is no Strangledome present.
When there is a Strangledome present they still only get hit for 7454.


Strangledome does not multiplie Whipclaw damage.

That part of the testing is very clear, what i am a bit perplexed at is the 4034 being "half" of 7454. 
The only thing i can think of is that the damage distribution with ISP and elemental vs enemy Shield / Health type, and doing some quick calculation does support this.

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1 minute ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

No, Enemies get hit 7454 When there is no Strangledome present.
When there is a Strangledome present they still only get hit for 7454.


Strangledome does not multiplie Whipclaw damage.

No, your numbers say that the damage is indeed multiplied by 2.

The damage distributed to targets in the Strangledome is supposed to be 50% of the main target. If Strangledome did not multiply the damage by 2, you would deal half of 7454 to anything not directly hit.

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1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

No, your numbers say that the damage is indeed multiplied by 2.

The damage distributed to targets in the Strangledome is supposed to be 50% of the main target. If Strangledome did not multiply the damage by 2, you would deal half of 7454 to anything not directly hit.

No.

Those are already hit by Whipclaw.

The 7454 you are seeing is Whipclaw dealing direct damage to the target.
The 4034 is the "Shared" Damage from the Strangledome.


This is why the test was done with and without Strangledome to make sure Whipclaw does not have fall off damage in anyway.


There is no 2x Multiplier at all included with only Whipclaw and Strangledome.

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Just now, Hellmaker2004 said:

There is no 2x Multiplier at all included with only Whipclaw and Strangledome.

If this was true you should be able to deal half of 7454 to an enemy inside of Strangledome. You have not demonstrated this.

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14 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

The 7454 you are seeing is Whipclaw dealing direct damage to the target.
The 4034 is the "Shared" Damage from the Strangledome.

To clarify, and please correct me if I am wrong:

I saw the target not directly hit taking 7454 "shared" damage, and the target you aimed at taking 7454+4034 damage - that last part seems bugged, as 2x7454 was the expected result.

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13 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

If this was true you should be able to deal half of 7454 to an enemy inside of Strangledome. You have not demonstrated this.

I mean i posted pictures.

Picture one, no Strangledome.

Whipclaw deals 7454 Against Amalgam Cinder Mechanist.
There are two instances, one for each Amalgam.


Picture two, Strangledome.
Whipclaw deals 7454 Against Amalgam Cinder Mechanist.
There are two instances, one for each Amalgam.

Unknown source deals 4034 Against Amalgam Cinder Mechanist, This only appear when using Whipclaw and Strangledome together.
There is only one instance, on one of the Amalgam.



This part was consistent with testing, i once again tried it with one foe, two foes nineteen foes. And only reason i did not go to twenty foes is due to it starting to modify combo and thus being a hell of a lot harder to look at due to critical strike chance multiplier and critical damage multipliers and combo damage multiplier.


If what you said is true and it does multiplier Whipclaw damge, we should with one foe either see the 7454 become turned into two 7454, or one twice the size, this is not the case.

My understanding when doing some minimal calculation is that the bandit in 4034 being the shared damage, is due to ISP damage vs health types, it does somewhat hold up on a quick calculation.

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1 minute ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

[...]

No. Your standard damage is 7454. Only enemies who are not hit, and suspended by Strangledome, are supposed to receive shared damage. Shared damage is 50%.

Thus, if there was no damage multiplier, hitting a Strangledome with multiple suspended enemies should deal 3727 damage to anything not in Whipclaws small radius.

You never did deal 3727 damage to anything, the lowest damage any one enemy took in your pictures from a single Whipcaw was 7454.

Logical conclusion is: Strangledome does indeed double Whipclaws damage, and shared damage is working as it is supposed to - however, directs hits appear to be buggy.

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1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

No. Your standard damage is 7454. Only enemies who are not hit, and suspended by Strangledome, are supposed to receive shared damage. Shared damage is 50%.

Thus, if there was no damage multiplier, hitting a Strangledome with multiple suspended enemies should deal 3727 damage to anything not in Whipclaws small radius.

You never did deal 3727 damage to anything, the lowest damage any one enemy took in your pictures from a single Whipcaw was 7454.

Logical conclusion is: Strangledome does indeed double Whipclaws damage, and shared damage is working as it is supposed to - however, directs hits appear to be buggy.

No, you are just wrong. And way to focused on the numerical value, something that look to be deviating  due to ISP damage versus Flesh and Shield. I still have to do some more testing before i can conclude it but so far it is heavily leaning into this.


This is what my testing have shown so far in numerical value.

Whipclaw, no Strangledome.
1 Foe = 1 instance of 7454.
2 Foe's = 2 Instances of 7454.
19 Foe's = 19 Instances of 7454.

Whipclaw, Strangledome
1 Foe = 1 Instance of 7454.
2 Foe's = 2 Instances of 7454, 1 Instance of 4034.
19 Foe's = 19 Instances of 7454, 18 Instances of 4034.


What is happening is that whenever you are striking the Strangledome, it will only calculate one "Primary" target being hit and then distribute half the damage they took to everyone else, this to prevent the synergy from having a insane exponentially increase.

Now it seems that the target that is considered the "Primary" Target is wonky, but that is it.

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3 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Whipclaw, no Strangledome.
1 Foe = 1 instance of 7454.
2 Foe's = 2 Instances of 7454.
19 Foe's = 19 Instances of 7454.

Whipclaw, Strangledome
1 Foe = 1 Instance of 7454.
2 Foe's = 2 Instances of 7454, 1 Instance of 4034.
19 Foe's = 19 Instances of 7454, 18 Instances of 4034.

You never deal less than 100% damage, while the shared damage is supposed to be 50%. This is explained by the 2x multiplier of Strangledome.

You do not "hit" all 19 foes hanging in your dome, Whipclaw does not have that kind of range.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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4 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You never deal less than 100% damage, while the shared damage is supposed to be 50%. This is explained by the 2x multiplier of Strangledome.

This still does not explain the damage sources in any way at all.

If Strangledome somehow is programed to delete Whipclaw damage, and when doing so calculate enemy health / shield / armor types, take half that damage and double it. We are still left out where the 4034 is coming from.

The 4034 is Whipclaw + Strangledome synergi.
The reason it is higher than half of 7454 is due to Health / Shield / Armor types taking more / less from certain damage types.

I will show this later, right now i have a headache and need to lay down for a min, i already have some testing where i remove all unknown variables and it is behaving exactly like i said, but no need to take my word for it. Il post it later.

Edited by Hellmaker2004
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Picture 1.

Whipclaw, one foe.
One instance of 2315 damage

Spoiler


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Picture 2.

Whipclaw, two foes.
Two instances of 2315 damage.

Spoiler


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Picture 3.
 

Whipclaw + Strangledome, one foe.
One instance of 2315 damage.

Spoiler


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Picture 4.
 

Whipclaw + Strangledome, two foes.
Two instances of 2315 damage, one instance of 1158.

Spoiler


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Picture 5.

Whipclaw + Strangledome, ten foes.
Three instances of 2315 damage, nine instances of 1158.

Spoiler


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Conclusion: Strangledome does not double the initial Whipclaw damage, and it does not double the damage it distribute from Whipclaw + Strangledome synergi, also whatever target is considered the first to be hit, will not be hit by the Strangledome + Whipclaw synergy.

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Posted (edited)

According to picture 5, you are correct. Though picture 4 (enemy not directly hit takes full damage) appears to contradict picture 5 (enemies not directly hit take half damage).

Of note is that picture 5 is the only one where anything takes half damage, and also the only one where you are not standing inside the Strangledome. While it sounds really stupid, from your pictures my impression is this:

  • If you stand inside Strangledome, everyone takes full damage, direct hits cause additional shared damage.
  • If you stand outside Strangledome, everyone takes shared damage, direct hits cause additional full damage.

Anyhow, thanks for your effort.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

According to picture 5, you are correct. Though picture 4 (enemy not directly hit takes full damage) appears to contradict picture 5 (enemies not directly hit take half damage).

Of note is that picture 5 is the only one where anything takes half damage, and also the only one where you are not standing inside the Strangledome. While it sounds really stupid, from your pictures my impression is this:

  • If you stand inside Strangledome, everyone takes full damage, direct hits cause additional shared damage.
  • If you stand outside Strangledome, everyone takes shared damage, direct hits cause additional full damage.

Anyhow, thanks for your effort.

That impression is wrong.

The one takeaway from picture five is that enemies outside of Whipclaw range is not hit by, Whipclaw. That is the only thing that is causing seven out of the ten mobs to only suffer half the damage, 50% of what Whipclaw dealt to the primary target. And i purposelessly did that to showcase that mobs only receive half of the damage Whipclaw does.

There is no weird interaction outside of what Whipclaw consider to be the "primary" target. There is no doubling Whipclaw damage synergy with Strangledome what so ever, if it was we would see deviation on Picture one and three, or two and four.

The numbers all speak for themselves.

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