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Posted (edited)

Some good changes in here!

  • Grenade Fan is getting very significant buffs, I'll certainly take a 30% increase in Duration.
  • Blaze Artillery getting cautious buffs is understandable, but going from 0.5x to 1.0x stacking per shot and a 50% increase in duration could be significant. I'll hold off on judgement till it's available in game.
  • Dispensary marker is a no-brainer, still would like to see it be improved for more mobile missions with the ability to carry it around, or reducing duration in favor of increase dispensing speed, something along those lines.
  • I'm sorry, but I don't need to test the Temporal Anchor change to know this solves nothing. Shield Satellite already gives her more than enough survivability and if I need to stay alive I'm gonna press the button that costs 25 energy instead of 100.

 

These are my thoughts on Temporal Anchor from the initial feedback thread

 

Issues:

·         Rewinding back to your previous position is often a downside, especially in the more mobile missions previously mentioned.

·         Implosion range is too small given how little room for Range mods Protea seems to have.

·         Implosion damage is incredibly difficult to stack outside of abusing high damage guns, and far too difficult to stack with abilities.

·         Cancelling the ability to prevent rewinding results in 100 energy spent doing absolutely nothing.

Suggestions:

·         Cancelling the ability refunds the full energy cost. (This would give a way out of situations that would punish you for using the ability.)

·         Small increase in Implosion Range. (ex. From 15m to 20m)

·         Allow abilities to add 100% of damage dealt to the Implosion’s damage counter. (This allows abilities to shine for stacking damage while keeping guns in check.)

·         Give Protea a Speed/Parkour Boost after rewinding to help make up for distance lost to said rewind.

 

The above suggestions are small fixes that would help turn Temporal Anchor from something the player would ask “Why would I use this?” to “Why not?” Or….. we could go with a more complicated, more fun option. I think I know of a way to better integrate the ability into Protea’s theme and mechanics, make it worth the 100 energy cost even without the time-rewind gimmick, and potentially take the place of some buffs for the rest of Protea’s kit. Just after setting the Temporal Anchor, Protea can activate an unstable overclock that significantly boosts herself and her abilities. The overclock would become the reason for the implosion at the end, with the time rewind saving her from oblivion. This would allow Temporal Anchor to be something the player wants to proactively use, help give it a purpose in those more mobile missions, and further develop the theme of the ability to mesh with the rest of Protea’s kit. The ability description and stats wouldn’t need too much updating, as the benefits could be listed in the Tips section on the Abilities page. This is my preferred way to improve the ability.

Suggestions for the overclock benefits (For simplicity’s sake, these are all unaffected by Mods)

·         Protea could see various buffs to QoL stats such as Sprint Speed, Parkour Velocity, and/or Casting Speed (Casting Speed is my #1 ask), to help encourage the spam all the things mentality the ability was designed for. (This is surprisingly not encroaching on Gauss’s turf, as he does not gain any of these stats from any of his abilities.)

·         Protea’s passive could be enhanced, giving her more strength or other stats from it.

·         Grenade Fan could allow 5 grenades to be thrown per cast, increase tick rate/shield charge rate by a flat amount, and/or allow multiple satellites to be held by Tenno.

·         Blaze Artillery could allow more turrets to be placed simultaneously, its number of charges and fire rate could be increased (meaning it would last the same amount of time, but shoot faster and stack up a higher dmg multiplier), and/or have its damage multiplier increased by a greater amount per hit.

·         Dispensary could allow multiple caches to be placed, allow drops of different types simultaneously, and/or dispense pickups at a significantly increased rate.

Edited by Brawlatron
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These sound rly good. Maybe you could place down multiple dispensers?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, FelisImpurrator said:

What point? Level 200? 300? Endurance isn't the focus of balance in this game. I would say, perhaps consider getting over it. It might be nice on her 1, but it's hardly necessary.

Hard mode is coming, so those levels or even beyond may seems in reach of the usual 20-30 minute runs. That is why we are begging for scaling damage. 

Edited by DrivaMain
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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

 

  • Protea is now invulnerable for the first 3 seconds of Temporal Anchor (i.e on cast, to prevent casting animation deaths).

This invulnerability window is an important add based on all the ways players have used Temporal Anchor thus far - that key survivability reaction should include invulnerability. 

We look forward to your feedback on these changes after they are live! 

Can we get a second of invulnerability at the END of Temporal Anchor? I find myself dying every time I go back to it because of the animation lock, and the forced knockdown if you 'die' during the ability.

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Posted (edited)

Also needed changes:
1) More visible shields pickups (from Grenade Fan), usually no one or 1 ally get them because they simply don't see on the floor.
Possible fix - add a synergy: if you aim at Dispenser and cast Genade Fan - Dispenser will also "throw" shields at closest ally at next Dispenser's proc.

2) Show Blaze Artillery max number of turrents (it's 3.) in abilities page (and maybe on right down part of the interface in-mission along with remaining duration of each).

3) Less base Duration for Dispensary (15 seconds would be fine) but more frequent procs.

4) Temporal Anchor should give small duration of invulnerability at the end.

 

PLEASE, FIX PETS NOT GAINING INVULNERABILITY AFTER THEIR REVIVE. It's impossible to play with not-sentinel companion in Jackal's fight because they instantly die right after rev. Also could "hide" pets into some room so they won't die every second.

Edited by Muxailo
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36 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Unless you can make time record without actually having it record then no you would still be recording constantly even if you're replacing 10 seconds with 10 seconds constantly. So while holding 10 seconds of stored time it has to record the next ten then dump and replace the previous 10 while recording the next. Instead of one stream of time, you would be holding two at a time, make that three if you really want to get technical. 

So unless you can come up with a game code to do it I doubt it will change.

That's how the boss works during the quest tho

When you deplete one of Protea's health bars, she always rewinds around 10 seconds, no matter for how long you've fought her, meaning that script was running during the whole fight with you, & even with the dozens of Granum enemies spawning at once, there's no problem with the memory being overused

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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:
  • Increased visibility FX on available Shield Satellite grenades to aid in differentiating between the two grenades.

Ugh! The shield VFX is already obnoxious, if the caster chose even just a semi-bright colour. I'm not a fan of your recent penchant for filling our screens with bright particle effects. It only gives an incentive to avoid playing with others.

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Change to Protea’s dispenser should be Considered like wisps motes. Perhaps the ability to place different types of dispensers and permanent like wisp?

I think taking away the ability for “artillery” to be synergies with volt is silly. And It should scale like flechette orb like Vauban.

Temporal anchor is kinda awkward, and I wish it was just a rewind of previous positioning, without all the anchor part

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there is an issue i have, the shield grenade also take pickups for companions, would it be possible to make it so if a player walk over a shield grenade, thier companion get it as well without taking another grenade? and vice versa as well, if pet pick the grenade then owner get the shield applied to as well.

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Posted (edited)

These sound amazing! Thanks for the changes! She's the most fun frame that's been released in awhile. My only disappointment about these changes is nothing is improved with the casting of her 1st ability, it feels a bit sluggish or delayed to cast due to the jump animation that has to happen with it, also wish this ability was one handed, part of what makes Vauban abilities great to use. And I think keeping the ammo stat for the 2 would be better since the number correlates to how high the damage ramps up. Oh and I do feel her 4 is her weakest ability, I wish it had some movement speed buff put into it or more range on the implosion, it's kind of difficult to assess what's getting hit by it and for how much.

Edited by -Penitence-

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ailia_Grimm:

Her 4 should just rewind whenever, holding the ability rewinds further but drains more energy, instead of having to anchor

Sounds like Prince of Persian now but i would prefer such aswell depsite not able ot try her yet but from what i seen.

Less micomangement overall on frames DE, please.

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I'm surprised to see such changes so quickly since Protea still feels more usable than, say, Grendel... But I'll gladly take them.

I'm also surprised to see how many people deem these changes insufficient. Not every frame can be the new Saryn or Mesa...

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1 час назад, [DE]Megan сказал:
  • Increased Duration of Blaze Artillery by 1 second, and doubled the Damage multiplier to compete against higher level enemies. Duration will now show in Arsenal stats instead of the maximum number of shots.

I'm really sorry, but this change makes me go:

Что означает KEKW? (RU)

I mean, I get it that you don't want to overbuff her. But adding 1 more second will turn this ability from 2 base seconds to 3 base seconds, which is still an incredibly short duration. Negative duration Vauban has more. And he does a lot more damage thanks to his built-in synergy, which Protea doesn't have. And then there's damage and its scaling. "Each consecutive hit adds X %" is just an outright bad idea. Combined with tiny duration it becomes horrible. And what's funny, in the same amount of time it takes to cast one turret things like Kuva Orgis, Kuva Chakkhurr, Kuva Bramma, Kuva Tonkor or any other decent AOE weapon will deal more damage than this turret during its full duration. Just from DPS standpoint this ability is a straight up decrease in overall DPS and doubling it's damage multiplier and adding one more second to its duration won't solve anything.

So what's the point of it in its current state? It can't lock out an approach like Vauban's Bastille+Flechette orb can. It can't DPS like anything else, in fact it's a net DPS decrease. It's an energy sink, because you have to spam cast it. Why does it exist?

 

I also would like to address Temporal Anchor and say that it's annoying in most situations and you should either disable rewinding to cast location on manual ability disable, or on ability time out. Otherwise it doesn't have any conceivable place in this game's meta. It's a band aid on an overall bad kit design and efficiency.

C'mon, guys, you can do better. You nailed it with the WIsp, you almost nailed it with Gauss and Grendel, but this time it a huge swing and a miss.

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47 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Well, it would only be a developer problem if the man who designed the Frame deems it one enough to change his design on it. Regardless of what people think Protea should be, its his Frame and he can design her how it wants to. Regardless they are listening to constructive feedback in the appropriate channels, and well if yours doesn't get chosen don't cry over the milk that was never spilled. Or was it?

people like you are the reason revenant still sucks
hope DE sees this bro

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2 minutes ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

That's how the boss works during the quest tho

When you deplete one of Protea's health bars, she always rewinds around 10 seconds, no matter for how long you've fought her, meaning that script was running during the whole fight with you, & even with the dozens of Granum enemies spawning at once, there's no problem with the memory being overused

The fight in the Granum Void is scripted the ability there does not work the same way as it does in regular gameplay. This is how the fight works as you drop her health once X criteria is met she will activate she will then run around giving you time to Xoris her to stop the heal from occurring. She will then rewind back to the start where the ability is activated regardless. You have to do this 4 times in the fight each time you interrupt the rewind she loses 1 bar of health. 

It looks like the ability is running constantly but its not, the heal on her health and when she is visually moving around are two seperate things. Ill link a video below so you can see what I mean. Will be my last post here it's late and I need sleep. 

 

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Megan a dit :

As we pass our 7 day mark since the launch of The Deadlock Protocol on PC, our hands are busy at work making changes based on great player feedback! We hope to provide Protea with both visual improvements as well as touching on some Ability mechanic improvements. We’re aiming to slip this in before Console Cert as well so our Console Tenno can enjoy an improved version of Protea!


Grenade Fan

  • Increased Duration of both grenades by 3 seconds.
  • Increased Range of both grenades at max rank from 4 to 5 meters.
    • For Shield Satellite, this applies to the grenade pickup Range.
  • Increased Shield Satellite grenade count from 3 to 4 to accommodate max Squad sizes.
  • Increased visibility FX on available Shield Satellite grenades to aid in differentiating between the two grenades.
  • Doubled the Damage of the Shrapnel Vortex grenade.
  • Fixed Protea's Grenade Fan/ Shield Satellites appearing giant while using Archwing.

Our goal here is to improve efficacy, usability, and logic of Grenade Fan! 

Blaze Artillery

  • Increased Duration of Blaze Artillery by 1 second, and doubled the Damage multiplier to compete against higher level enemies. Duration will now show in Arsenal stats instead of the maximum number of shots.
  • Protea’s Blaze Artillery will now shoot through Volt’s Shield, but won't benefit from its buffs.
  • Fixed Protea’s Blaze Artillery not targeting ragdolled enemies. 

Our goal here is to keep the spirit of the rapid fire Artillery alive, with just a bit more punch. We will monitor for feedback after this change as well. 

Dispensary

  • Protea’s Dispensary location is now displayed on the minimap in the form of the Ability icon.
    • Similar to Wisp’s Reservoirs! 

Temporal Anchor

  • Protea is now invulnerable for the first 3 seconds of Temporal Anchor (i.e on cast, to prevent casting animation deaths).

This invulnerability window is an important add based on all the ways players have used Temporal Anchor thus far - that key survivability reaction should include invulnerability. 

We look forward to your feedback on these changes after they are live! 

I would increase the range of and Duration of the grenade even more tbh. 

The artillery change seems pretty nice, but I think you should let it be affected by buffs in general.  Also make it scale with enemy level. Stop fearing "scaling" damage. 

Dispensary still need to be able to put more than 1 for "mobile" mission

Temporal Anchor is still a mess of an ability.. Increase the range of explosion. Let us "deanchor" ourself to unleash a nuke 

Edited by MunsuLight
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3 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Sounds like Prince of Persian now but i would prefer such aswell depsite not able ot try her yet but from what i seen.

Less micomangement overall on frames DE, please.

Well in a game like warframe where you need to react quickly, having to place an anchor & anticipate what the enemy is going to do isn't good

Imagine getting grabbed by an ancient or a scorpion or just getting knockdowned by a fire eximus, instead of having to go through that slow a$$ animation that they implemented not long ago, you could instead hold the ability for a sec or two to quickly rewind where you were & get back into action in an instant

Other exemple (even if way less useful), since this ability isn't very good since we always tend go forward, I tried to use it for a spy, instead I got forced to be rewound before arriving to the final console because I didn't know when I was going to get to it. But with this change you can just hack the final console & then rewind

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, rachjumper said:

people like you are the reason revenant still sucks
hope DE sees this bro

Well I'm glad you think so. And I'm sure they will, they have been quite good reading feedback lately. Now I really must be going so thank you for the salt bro, I'll use it on my popcorn later. 

P.s. This is my last post.

Edited by Magus_Tahir
Much P.S.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

The fight in the Granum Void is scripted the ability there does not work the same way as it does in regular gameplay. This is how the fight works as you drop her health once X criteria is met she will activate she will then run around giving you time to Xoris her to stop the heal from occurring. She will then rewind back to the start where the ability is activated regardless. You have to do this 4 times in the fight each time you interrupt the rewind she loses 1 bar of health. 

It looks like the ability is running constantly but its not, the heal on her health and when she is visually moving around are two seperate things. Ill link a video below so you can see what I mean. Will be my last post here it's late and I need sleep.

Ok true, but like @Marine027 said, a game like Prince of Persia can do it, you can rewind whenever you want, so why not warframe?

Edited by Ailia_Grimm

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On her Grenade Fan, it would be nice if the forced hop was removed.

Would be a nice improvement overall just even having that minor adjustment.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Protea’s Blaze Artillery will now shoot through Volt’s Shield, but won't benefit from its buffs.

Yea I can already feel eidolon meta getting nerfed into the ground because 'lol we can't let you use these tools like that' and nerf everything in eidolo hunts.

Other than that? Changes look like a step in the right direction.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Protea’s Blaze Artillery will now shoot through Volt’s Shield, but won't benefit from its buffs.

what's the problem with gaining its buffs? the damaged type change and crit buffs are fine, nearly every friendly projectile is affected by volts shield like that and it's not like blaze artillery should have any exception to that. its also not like there's always gonna be a volt in a proteas squad, and if there is then it's just team coordination.

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Love the changes, Excited for them to go live

Spoiler

(please let me keep my massive 'nades....)

 

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I just re-tested it and it took me about the same amount of time to kill 8 level 175 Corrupted Heavy Gunners with my Kuva Bramma as it took me to cast 3 turrets. And to achieve same result you have to cast 10 of them. I highly doubt doubling damage multiplier will bridge that gap. Maybe quadrupling can.

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