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9 minutes ago, bencek97 said:

We got Wukong and his clone that is almost immortal and aimbot,

 

thats my point, its not about immortality, every frame has that, (well almost.. banshee)

its about having abilitys already that kill stuff for you alowing you to go "afk" which is a rediculous thought to begin with.. because I never actualyl went AFK because of an ability..

Wukong has an infinte turret/pet that deals millions of damage for 25 energy.

Vauban has a 360° angle instant high damage 25s!!! turret that just doesnt look as cool.

Octavia has a 360° angle infinitly scaling high damage 20s!!! turret/pet 

stuff like this I consider turret like abilitys, and they all are AMAZING! they are SO FUN, so NICELY designed.. and by NO MEANS are overpowered....

 

why beeing so scared to make protea actual fun? if this is exatly what we want??

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10 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

What what ?

to compete with highes dps? what does that even mean? both range, and damage of this ability are completly irrelevant.. the damage will never matter so just increasing the range will not change anything either, especially when you increase the damage by killing everything in range.. by design it is flawed since there won't even be any enemys around because they are all dead because you wanted to scale it..

and EVEN IF there are enemys around, the damage is laughable and doesn't even scratch enemys, it has the same problems ans nyx's absorb, a very poor basic damage type.. make it true damage, slash damage or anything of value, then we can talk about range. and the ability as a whole has nothing to do with dps, so I dont understand that comment.

Edited by SmokinDice
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à l’instant, SmokinDice a dit :

to compete with highes dps? what does that even mean? both range, and damage of this ability are completly irrelevant.. the damage will never matter so just increase the range will not change anything either, especially when you increase the damage by killing everything in range.. by design it is flawed since there won't even be any enemys around because they are all dead because you wanted to scale it..

and EVEN IF there are enemys around, the damage is laughable and doesn'T even scrat enemys, it has the same problems ans nyx's absorb, a very poor basic damage time.. make it true damage, slash damage or anything of value, then we can talk about range. and the ability as a whole has nothing to do with dps, so I dont understand that comment.

Actually, some people doing few millions damage at release would disagree with you about the damage part.

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9 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Actually, some people doing few millions damage at release would disagree with you about the damage part.

the number on screen does not match the damage it acutally does, sure I can create a scenario where I do a million damage. but on a heavy gunner even a million damage is not enough to even scratch it, since it reduces the damage by SO much.. thats the important part, and if you already dealing milions of damge with your weapons, why do you need this thing to deal even more?

so in which realistic scenario this abilitys damage has ever been relevant to you? I doubt any.

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à l’instant, SmokinDice a dit :

the number on screen does not match the damage it acutally does, sure I can create a scenario where I do a million damage. but on a heavy gunner even a million damage is not enough to even scratch it, since it reduces the damage by SO much.. thats the important part, and if you already dealing milions of damge with your weapons, why do you need this thing to deal even more?

so in which realistic scenario this abilitys damage has ever been relevant to you? I doubt any.

I know people doing 3 hours survival and being happy with still having a 30 meters one shot aoe, but yes, of course, they had to stack it with the right tools. But your point would be saying that equinox is a bad dps, because as it scale on enemy killed in range, you HAVE to have the required dps first to stack.

While the difference is important between maim and anchor, maim scale off a flat unmoddable hp pool of enemy killed, becoming probably less ans less powerful versus grineer, while anchor scale on your own damage dealt which may be either ridiclously low or insane as we can do already crazy number with the right tools.

Myself, sure, I found Anchor quite underwhelming dps wise, but mostly for two reasons : first i can't see anything as soon as i recall, and secondly, I think i can't build enough range+++duration++strenght+ on this frame to make it really stronk.

Now considering the double damage buff on grenades and duration buff to turret, I can imagine Anchor becoming as well passively buffed, but the range still suffer.

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Good changes. Still wish attached shield satellites didn't expire until being consumed by a shield gate trigger - as it is, you need to babysit their duration (since you can't refresh them, you need to wait for the current one to expire), unlike, say, Oberon's renewal (which just stays on potentially forever) or Wisp's motes (which can be refreshed at the reservoir, which doesn't expire). I guess the design idea is that Protea is supposed to camp a spot and only move out temporarily with a temporal anchor activated, to then go back when it ends? In which case you just spam shield grenades at your feet to guarantee 100% uptime. But it's still extremely clunky maintenance next to Wisp's motes.

Also no, people, not every frame needs all of their damage abilities to have enemy scaling, especially slash/bleed abilities.

Edited by ebrl
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6 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

But your point would be saying that equinox is a bad dps, because as it scale on enemy killed in range, you HAVE to have the required dps first to stack.

 

no, because equinox has INFINITE time to stack the damage, it has RELEVANT damage type in slash that actually deals damage. and because of its infinite duration you can unleash it ON DEMAND when there are actual enemys around you.. so it is a COMPLETLY diffrent cup of tea..

 

6 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I think i can't build enough range+++duration++strenght+ on this frame to make it really stronk.

I can.. and honestly it doesn't get much better, regarding her 2 and 4. its sad but its true..

 

6 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I can imagine Anchor becoming as well passively buffed, but the range still suffer.

sure, yes it becomes passivly stronger.. but that doesn't change the fact that it is mechanically bad implemnted and has VERY limited niche uses where it is actually effective in any capacity..

 

by my (and many others) suggested change to make it toggable as well ( much like equinox) and releasable on command, that would make it much better and more in line with other "dps"

Edited by SmokinDice
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1 hour ago, SmokinDice said:

Okay, I missed the comment where they said they change it to duration only. (good, or okay, one of the two possible solutions)

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

I don't think that will be the case, just a buff to duration and a display change from ammo to duration, but while keeping ammo based turrets.

It's why I said " they have to be more clear about stats " in my reply and the person I have replied was also confused about it. The way they have worded the change sounded like ammo is being removed and its getting +1 sec duration buff to current unmodded lifespan ( 2 sec ).

Turret duration is directly tied to the time required to fire all plasma ammo ( unmodded, 6 ammo at 3 shots per second equates to 2 seconds ). I don't know if +1 sec buff translates to firerate or ammo. It can mean 2 things ;

  • Base ammo is increased from 6 to 9, so it can shoot 3 ammo per sec for 3 sec. 
  • Base ammo is kept at 6 but firerate is reduced from 3 to 2 ammo per sec, so turret still shoots for 3 sec.

It made more sense to think that ammo is removed ( one of simplest changes, other is being duration limit removal ) and turrets became fully duration based since ammo stat is being removed and replaced by duration stat.

 

Edited by Aeon94
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il y a 2 minutes, Aeon94 a dit :

Base ammo is increased from 6 to 9, so it can shoot 3 ammo per sec for 3 sec.

Base ammo is kept at 6 but firerate is reduced from 3 to 2 ammo per sec, so turret still shoots for 3 sec.

Or base ammo is kept at 6, fire rate is kept at 3/s, and duration is improved by one second.

I think it's pretty clear.

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14 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Or base ammo is kept at 6, fire rate is kept at 3/s, and duration is improved by one second.

I think it's pretty clear.

again, what?

thats not how it works, it doesn't make sense what you just said, since right now it fire those 6 shots it has in exactly this 2 second time frame.. so Aeon94 is absolutly right in their assumptions.

 

the way I undersatnd it now is it just doesn't show ammo anymore, but instead a measily duration of 3 seconds.. I think in those 3 seconds it will be able to fire, at most, 9 shots. because otherwise it would be a nerf as well. and I THINK DE might be smarter than this. ^^

Edited by SmokinDice
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8 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Or base ammo is kept at 6, fire rate is kept at 3/s, and duration is improved by one second.

I think it's pretty clear.

12 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

Turret duration is directly tied to the time required to fire all plasma ammo ( unmodded, 6 ammo at 3 shots per second equates to 2 seconds )

You can't keep 6 ammo and 3 ammo/sec firerate and expect it to last for 3 sec. It doesn't make sense, unless DE also changed ammo and duration behaviour with this change.

 

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3 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

again, what?

thats not how it works, since right now it fire those 6 shots it has in exactly this 2 second time frame.. so Aeon94 is absolutly right in their assumptions.

 

the way I undersatnd it now it just doesn't show ammo anymore, but instead a measily duration of 3 seconds.. I Ithink it this 3 seconds it will be able to fire, at most, 9 shots. so otherwise it would be a nerf as well. and I THINK DE might be smarter then this. ^^

Exactly! It will be either base ammo buff or firerate nerf.

I will hold my jugdement until we get changes. 🙂

Edited by Aeon94
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13 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Hard mode is coming, so those levels or even beyond may seems in reach of the usual 20-30 minute runs. That is why we are begging for scaling damage. 

Hard modE is 3rd sortie and 50 levels after that it’s really no that big of a deal 

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Awesome! 😄

Looking forward to any potential visual effect quality of life changes/improvements, particularly for Temporal Anchor screen desaturation, and both grenades.

And any potential audio change for that percussive drum tap on initial cast of Blaze Artillery (I don't want to play as Octavia's drummer! xD)

Edited by Sailears
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The grenades are Fine The CC combo’d with Slash makes it Strong enough,

this whole make it scale with enemy level , or make everything adapt to enemy weaknesses. Is starting to be a weak argument and nobody is adapting.

like the Rewind you don’t like going back? It’s counter productive? Want to fast forward?

YOU fast forward be tactical know your steps a ahead( which is what people with time manipulation do) move ahead of the crowd go back to it kill rewind to in front of everything.

and boom you fast forward.

people who want to make Protea like Mesa Vauban and Saryn is just holding up progress.

its not gonna happen..

 

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)TrollyThyTrinity said:

be tactical know your steps a ahead( which is what people with time manipulation do)

you know.. just because you play her doesn't make you actually able to see or predict the future right..right? I mean.. you know that right?

 

 you can GUESS your steps ahead from experience, yes. but how often do you really see yourself die in this game in exactly 8 seconds from now?

Edited by SmokinDice
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15 minutes ago, (PS4)TrollyThyTrinity said:

The grenades are Fine The CC combo’d with Slash makes it Strong enough,

this whole make it scale with enemy level , or make everything adapt to enemy weaknesses. Is starting to be a weak argument and nobody is adapting.

like the Rewind you don’t like going back? It’s counter productive? Want to fast forward?

YOU fast forward be tactical know your steps a ahead( which is what people with time manipulation do) move ahead of the crowd go back to it kill rewind to in front of everything.

and boom you fast forward.

people who want to make Protea like Mesa Vauban and Saryn is just holding up progress.

its not gonna happen..

 

You console jockeys shouldn't be here yet. You haven't even experienced the frame personally (unless you have a PC account).  Protea is underwhelming, let me list some of her problems

1. If her 1 doesn't deal enough damage against high level enemies people are not gonna use it. Sure it has CC but the short range isn't gonna cut it. Look at Grendel, all of his abilities scale and does he nuke maps like crazy? No. 

2. Her 2 has 2 annoying mechanics : Limited ammo and short duration. It gimps low duration builds by a lot because at sub 100% duration the turret instantly despawn in less than a few seconds and the miniscule ammo. I am fine if one of the mechanics exist but two?? Come on DE.  That ability will get out scaled after a certain point because armor scaling is a thing.

3. Her 3 costs too much energy, Wisp's motes costs 25 and the buffs it grant overshadows dispensary. 

4. Her 4 requires Line of Sight, yes that sweet 100k damage will be wasted when your enemy managed to hide behind an obstacle as soon as you imploded. Sure I don't mind the line of sight but the lower than average range for an ultimate ability is an added insult to the ability as well. 

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8 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

3. Her 3 costs too much energy, Wisp's motes costs 25 and the buffs it grant overshadows dispensary. 

hahahahahaha... no...

this ability right now is the sole reason to play her.. it is literally the strongest ability in the game probably and resolve all problems anyone could ever have realisticly.. it provides your whole team with infinite energy, ammo and health.. the three MAIN POINTS of ressource management you have to deal with, so I'd say the energy cost does not matter even 0,000001%.. even at 100 energy beeing her ultimate I'd use it!

 

keep in mind I am one of the biggest voices on how she needs to be changed around here..

but 3 is perfect, and its the only ability that works in her favor, with her shield grenades ofcourse when they get their extra duration!

 

please focus on the real problems, which is her turret mainly 90% which would make her instantly viable and fun if they were good.. and then the rest 10% of attention should adress her 4 and redesign it slightly

Edited by SmokinDice
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After spending some time playing Protea, i'm glad to see changes like Blaze Artillery being able to target ragdolled enemies as it was really breaking the potential synergies with "gathering" frames like Vauban, Mag, Nidus ...

In my humble opinion tho', the issue with the turrets aint the damage but the duration. Protea is really fun to play, but the "spamyness" can get tiring pretty quick. In terms of damage, the secret with the current version is to take adventage of the inate punch throug as each enemy it hit will proc the damage multiplier. Using magus lockdown/anomaly or simply thowing a Ferox can lead to clearing 20 heavy gunners level 175 in less than 5 seconds. (Also thowing slash nades in the mix)

That's why i think allowing for more synergies could go a long way. For exemple the same way current artillery cannot fire through Volt Shields, it cannot fire in Mag magnetize wich is a shame considering my previous observation on punch through. I do not get why actively denying the turret to take adventage of Volts shields properties either.

In regards to here utltimate i must say i didn't found any utiliy for it. Energy is the last of my concerns with Protea as Equilibrium will grants her virtualy infinite energy. Maybe survivability but i didn't exeperienced a case where it was needed.

A crazy idea for the end ... Why not allowing the Blaze Artillery to be modded if we do not bring any primary or secondary (or both). It could add dumb fun to the frame. Making the Artiellery duration based on the frame, we could then influence its behavior with mods like magazine size or damage depending on missions.

Best regards. (excuse my english)

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il y a une heure, Aeon94 a dit :

You can't keep 6 ammo and 3 ammo/sec firerate and expect it to last for 3 sec. It doesn't make sense, unless DE also changed ammo and duration behaviour with this change.

 

 

il y a une heure, SmokinDice a dit :

again, what?

thats not how it works, it doesn't make sense what you just said, since right now it fire those 6 shots it has in exactly this 2 second time frame.. so Aeon94 is absolutly right in their assumptions.

 

the way I undersatnd it now is it just doesn't show ammo anymore, but instead a measily duration of 3 seconds.. I think in those 3 seconds it will be able to fire, at most, 9 shots. because otherwise it would be a nerf as well. and I THINK DE might be smarter than this. ^^

But you could imagine the turret still have 6 base ammo, shooting at 3/s, but lasting longer than its most efficient firerate ; get it ? Meaning it would most likely (more than now) shoot all its bullet and disapear, or else, stay a big longer and have more time to find targets.

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5 minutes ago, 5like said:

After spending some time playing Protea, i'm glad to see changes like Blaze Artillery being able to target ragdolled enemies as it was really breaking the potential synergies with "gathering" frames like Vauban, Mag, Nidus ...

In my humble opinion tho', the issue with the turrets aint the damage but the duration. Protea is really fun to play, but the "spamyness" can get tiring pretty quick. In terms of damage, the secret with the current version is to take adventage of the inate punch throug as each enemy it hit will proc the damage multiplier. Using magus lockdown/anomaly or simply thowing a Ferox can lead to clearing 20 heavy gunners level 175 in less than 5 seconds. (Also thowing slash nades in the mix)

That's why i think allowing for more synergies could go a long way. For exemple the same way current artillery cannot fire through Volt Shields, it cannot fire in Mag magnetize wich is a shame considering my previous observation on punch through. I do not get why actively denying the turret to take adventage of Volts shields properties either.

In regards to here utltimate i must say i didn't found any utiliy for it. Energy is the last of my concerns with Protea as Equilibrium will grants her virtualy infinite energy. Maybe survivability but i didn't exeperienced a case where it was needed.

this is an absolut yes! the best and most well articulated comment so far. aboslutly this!

 

6 minutes ago, 5like said:

A crazy idea for the end ... Why not allowing the Blaze Artillery to be modded if we do not bring any primary or secondary (or both). It could add dumb fun to the frame. Making the Artiellery duration based on the frame, we could then influence its behavior with mods like magazine size or damage depending on missions.

this bit though is a clear no. she doesn't not need that, and the game does not need that, since it would raise more arguments about others frames that we do not need.

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il y a une heure, SmokinDice a dit :

no, because equinox has INFINITE time to stack the damage, it has RELEVANT damage type in slash that actually deals damage. and because of its infinite duration you can unleash it ON DEMAND when there are actual enemys around you.. so it is a COMPLETLY diffrent cup of tea..

Yes, but then, if we have to compare about other stats, Anchor still make you virtually unkillable, and give you back any ressources spent, and now they are adding a invulnerability phase, it's easy to imagine stupid broken build based on fleeting expertise and transcient fortitude to be perma invulnerable, such as the old hildryn low shield trick.

 

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The qol to her 3 and 4 seem fine but 1 and 2 are still going to be a problem.

Just buffing the flat damage values won't make then scale. The only thing that can let them scale is taking a current health % value+ the flat or the same formula you used with vauban and grendel. And imo that % + base should ONLY happen when in tandem with grenade fan. She has little to no synergy with her abilities right now outside of damage being credited towards her 4 she needs more.

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