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Blaze Artillery:

How about we give it 20-30 ammo base effected by duration mods, scaling damage, increase cost to 100, no duration it stays till empty, recasting calls it back to your hip and maybe refunds based on ammo spent and it takes 20-30 ammo to achieve max damage multiplier, like .25% per shot. Perhaps even to encourage use of her 4 refund ammo to the artillery spent during anchor while maintaining the damage counter. Have her ability bar display the ammo count

Alternate idea for the multiplier is each successive shot to an enemy increases damage by 100% effected by strength

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34 minutes ago, ebrl said:

Notice that doubling the rate at which turrets gain damage and increasing base duration by 50% means that in a very simple test scenario of a single enemy being hit for the entire duration, a single turret does about 3.7x more damage during its lifetime, for an average of 2.46x sustained damage compared to current values. And these values go up if turrets are hitting more than one enemy per shot.

yeah.. but still this is not what the majority desires from this skill..

the potential damage could also be easily 3x if you just give it 3x the duration... which is a way more balanced AND enjoyable approach..

  • Like 1

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20 hours ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

Her 4 should just rewind whenever, holding the ability rewinds further but drains more energy, instead of having to anchor

Seems hard to implement. Lots of save data to record and constantly delete to save space, but also a fantastic idea if they figure it out

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Perfect. 1 more second is all Protea's 2 need to be amazing.  The multiplier buff is a nice cherry on top of the pie

 

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21 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Some Changes

Here i thought you were going to make the "Time-Manipulation Warframe" have more than 1 time-related skill...

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21 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Our goal here is to improve efficacy, usability, and logic of Grenade Fan! 

Shield satellite duration replenish would be nice,

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The easiest way to fix protea's damage would've been to make her abilities scale with enemy levels. At minimum make her Grenade Fan scale like Vauban does. As for Blaze Artillery, you could make it so it is moddable as a rifle/sentinel rifle.

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2 minutes ago, Greystrun said:

Shield satellite duration replenish would be nice,

I think 1 person would suck up all the nades replenishing that half second loss between steps

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38 minutes ago, (PS4)ZeKingIII said:

The easiest way to fix protea's damage would've been to make her abilities scale with enemy levels. At minimum make her Grenade Fan scale like Vauban does. As for Blaze Artillery, you could make it so it is moddable as a rifle/sentinel rifle.

That does actually make sense to me as you could tune it to specific runs and have it scalable as well. Sort of like exalted weapons in my view of it and since its duration based and not energy does make this seem like a viable option.

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Posted (edited)

Why not make the 4 do true damage instead of making 3 seconds of invulnerability ?

Equinox and garuda make true damage, its strong, not broken, why not Protea ?

Don't be afraid of making powerful warframes, and if they are too broken, nerf them then. Do like Nidus, it was a bit op when it come out, he was a bit nerfed, and now it is a good frame funny to play and efficient in meta.

Just remember actually some frames are really powerful, but it not broke the game, because you are "op" in the game.

Edited by _Xokra_

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A step in the right direction, but more work needs to be done.

Currently, the only real way to min-max her is to build around hitting her 4 and them spamming grenades or turrets as much as possible in the time frame and refunding energy. It feels very clunky and I think its because the damage the turrets do and the damage the temporal anchor does and its range are mediocre.

Blaze Artillery still needs more work to be anything comparable to just using mesa or a "meta" primary/secondary weapon.

Issues:
- You need to spam turrets for it to effective and its still worse than just using weapons.
- The duration/shots system is terrible.
     - If its shots based, the duration should be much longer
     - I would much rather it not be shots based and just have a duration (8-10 seconds at max rank so the increasing damage per hit doesn't scale too out of control)

Ideas:
- Allow blaze artillery to be charged for additional affects
     - Option A: Triples the duration and shot maximum for 4x the cost
     - Option B: Deploys 3 turrets in a fan for triple the cost

If feels like the gameplay design behind protea was confused about what they actually wanted her to do/be good at and what roles she fills or if she brings something new to the table.

I want to like her a lot, but right now she still feels very clunky.

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23 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Temporal Anchor

  • Protea is now invulnerable for the first 3 seconds of Temporal Anchor (i.e on cast, to prevent casting animation deaths).

This invulnerability window is an important add based on all the ways players have used Temporal Anchor thus far - that key survivability reaction should include invulnerability. 

We look forward to your feedback on these changes after they are live! 

Her 4's range seems to have the same issue Baruuk's Lull had when he first came out. If enemies are at a different elevation (like literally just down a ramp sometimes) it won't effect them unless you're airborne or something. It feels over dependent on Line Of Sight.

Also a 4 augment that causes the AoE to occur at the anchor would be nice. Or one that gives the AoE a viral proc

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Posted (edited)
il y a 7 minutes, Mr.Holyroller a dit :

A step in the right direction, but more work needs to be done.

Currently, the only real way to min-max her is to build around hitting her 4 and them spamming grenades or turrets as much as possible in the time frame and refunding energy. It feels very clunky and I think its because the damage the turrets do and the damage the temporal anchor does and its range are mediocre.

Blaze Artillery still needs more work to be anything comparable to just using mesa or a "meta" primary/secondary weapon.

Issues:
- You need to spam turrets for it to effective and its still worse than just using weapons.
- The duration/shots system is terrible.
     - If its shots based, the duration should be much longer
     - I would much rather it not be shots based and just have a duration (8-10 seconds at max rank so the increasing damage per hit doesn't scale too out of control)

Ideas:
- Allow blaze artillery to be charged for additional affects
     - Option A: Triples the duration and shot maximum for 4x the cost
     - Option B: Deploys 3 turrets in a fan for triple the cost

If feels like the gameplay design behind protea was confused about what they actually wanted her to do/be good at and what roles she fills or if she brings something new to the table.

I want to like her a lot, but right now she still feels very clunky.

Well, right now Blaze is worse than Vauban's nail turrets, so removing shots, and having it scale with ennemy level AND still keeping the combo while capping it at a fixed value, while also increasing a lot the duration (10 seconds) would be a lot more useful.

Like I said in another post, they should not be afraid of making her op, since every single warframe is litterally way over the top when you play normal content ennemies.
I get that they don't want to see proteas in every games, but right now, she does not have any identity.

Edited by Maryph

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2 minutes ago, Maryph said:

Well, right now Blaze is worse than Vauban's nail turrets, so removing shots, and having it scale with ennemy level AND still keeping the combo while capping it at a fixed value, while also increasing a lot the duration (10 seconds) would be a lot more useful.

Like I said in another post, they should not be afraid of making her op, since every single warframe is litterally way over the top when you play normal content ennemies.

Yeah id love if it was just duration based and capped at like 10x or something

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2 hours ago, (XB1)A Hades Satyr said:

I think 1 person would suck up all the nades replenishing that half second loss between steps

This is somewhat manageable, you know... Said person could have some self control to not pick everything up, or Protea could simply recast it in an other place.

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On 2020-06-18 at 8:54 PM, Voltage said:

Most of these changes aren't negative in spirit, but they aren't enough (seeing other comments and such).

Please let her take advantage of Volt's shield buffs. This is anti-synergenic for honestly no reason as other Warframes do benefit from this interaction, and it's just silly not to allow Protea to as well. This reminds me of the time that it was decided that Mesa can't use Arcane Velocity anymore and people responded accordingly...

THIS! setting up a series of abilities consisting of a shield and a turret together sees warframes working together which is exactly what needs to happen more!!!! 

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On 2020-06-18 at 8:51 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Grenade Fan

  • Increased Duration of both grenades by 3 seconds.
  • Increased Range of both grenades at max rank from 4 to 5 meters.
    • For Shield Satellite, this applies to the grenade pickup Range.
  • Increased Shield Satellite grenade count from 3 to 4 to accommodate max Squad sizes.
  • Increased visibility FX on available Shield Satellite grenades to aid in differentiating between the two grenades.
  • Doubled the Damage of the Shrapnel Vortex grenade.
  • Fixed Protea's Grenade Fan/ Shield Satellites appearing giant while using Archwing.

Our goal here is to improve efficacy, usability, and logic of Grenade Fan! 

Overall great changes!, I don't see anything else that can be added, maybe a small adjustment

  • If Shield Satellite is casted near hostiles, they get either a Shock or a Magnetic Proc 
  • Grenade's have impact damage if they hit mobs.
  • Shrapnel explodes when it's duration ends, dealing the same damage

 

On 2020-06-18 at 8:51 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Blaze Artillery

  • Increased Duration of Blaze Artillery by 1 second, and doubled the Damage multiplier to compete against higher level enemies. Duration will now show in Arsenal stats instead of the maximum number of shots.
  • Protea’s Blaze Artillery will now shoot through Volt’s Shield, but won't benefit from its buffs.
  • Fixed Protea’s Blaze Artillery not targeting ragdolled enemies. 

Our goal here is to keep the spirit of the rapid fire Artillery alive, with just a bit more punch. We will monitor for feedback after this change as well. 

Overall great changes!, I don't see anything else that can be added, maybe a single change and that be great

  • Allow the turret to scale via level (an simple change) & Allow it to be effected by Warframe's powers (Like Volt's Shield!)

 

On 2020-06-18 at 8:51 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Dispensary

  • Protea’s Dispensary location is now displayed on the minimap in the form of the Ability icon.
    • Similar to Wisp’s Reservoirs! 

Overall a good change, but a few more will be nice!

  • Faster "Spit-Out" time
  • HP/Ammo/Eng are effected by Power Strg (More %)
  • Can be re-cast if one is already out for low cost. (rather then waiting for it to end)

 

On 2020-06-18 at 8:51 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Temporal Anchor

  • Protea is now invulnerable for the first 3 seconds of Temporal Anchor (i.e on cast, to prevent casting animation deaths).

This invulnerability window is an important add based on all the ways players have used Temporal Anchor thus far - that key survivability reaction should include invulnerability. 

Great change, but maybe allow an small window at the end of it as well, when you revert back?, so you don't die right as you come out of it?, Otherwise no need to change this power, unlike people ask for, otherwise it just be a Press to Win button!.

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This is more a thematic thing, but having a 'ghost' protea shooting her guns from her second ability would make it feel way more time themed, like she's splitting the timeline and shooting her guns in a separate timeline.

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On 2020-06-19 at 2:54 AM, Voltage said:

Most of these changes aren't negative in spirit, but they aren't enough (seeing other comments and such).

Please let her take advantage of Volt's shield buffs. This is anti-synergenic for honestly no reason as other Warframes do benefit from this interaction, and it's just silly not to allow Protea to as well. This reminds me of the time that it was decided that Mesa can't use Arcane Velocity anymore and people responded accordingly...

I think it's for the best. Making it gain Volt's shield buff turns its damage type from heat to radiation. Blaze Artillery has 100% status chance. If the damage type changes from heat to radiation, it'll lose the 50% armor strip and stacking dot. It'll significantly reduce its scaling capabilities.

Also Blaze Artillery never had any crit chance to benefit from the bonus crit damage.

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Posted (edited)

There was no mention in removing the Ammo from her 2nd ability... Seriously, remove that, It is completely pointless as if it fires constantly, the Blaze artillery will run out of ammo and dissapear because of duration at the same time.

-- A second suggestion: Remove the duration instead (Or make it really long, like 60 seconds and not affected by duration), and make ammo scale with ability duration, and give it a little bit more ammo. This way, the ability would shift into a pure damage ability, which... I mean, I could just use my weapon, to a Damage support ability, great to put near objectives/choke points. AND, if you need to use it the old way, you can still do it!

Increasing her shield grenade count from 3 to 4 also doesn't help much, since pets AND sentrys can pick up them. We will need to recast the ability, regardless of this change...

-- I would suggest making so protea drops only one shield grenade, that each ally can grab one time. That dropped grenade will dissapear after It's duration ran out, or every ally on the team grabbed it.

Although many youtubers (I don't know why) are ok with her 3rd ability, I think it is also weak... Mainly because that If in a group, the fact that it can only drop 1 of each resources really makes the ability really weak, since the speed at which it dropps resources is pretty slow.

-- I think that making the Dispenser function similar to Health/Ammo/Energy pads that we have as gear would be really good, periodically sending pulses that replenish those resources to all players within range. Something like a pulse every 5 seconds, that replenish 25 energy, health and ammo (Amount of ammo should vary with weapon type). It would be a good solo ability, since It makes it a little bit more efficient in It's job, and It also removes the problem of needing to fight your teammates for the drops (Poor harrow).

Now her 4th ability... In my opinion, It is a very fun ability, compared to her other abilities, but It is still quite weak since It's damage burst is not that great, and you need to anchor it before using.

-- Making it Instantaneous could help a lot with that problem, not only that, but giving the player the option to stop reversing at any moment while he is going back in time would be cool too, since, ya know, It wouldn't be good if I reversed time exactly in a moment where I have 10 energy lol.

 

Now, I say this as a bonus sugestion, since I don't know if this would be OP or not, my opinion is that It could be a double-edged knife. Make her 4th ability also reverse buffs/debuffs/ abilities duration, and remove the AoE damage altogether... It's quite unecessary and doesn't make much sence IMO.

 

 

PS: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE, REWORK NYX! HER ENTIRE KIT, PLEASE!

Edited by lulialmir

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while i do appreciate that DE is buffing protea, i do not think this is going to be enough

her kit has a lot of flaws behind it comparing her to other frames she
her damage is comparably low, the increase on multiplier and slight boost in duration will help this to a degree *though why not use vaubans level scaling it works far better for scaling*
the changes to her shrapnel grenades wont scale, base damage only ever assists in low to mid level content *again why not use vaubans level scaling as it works far better at this*
then again at least it will be a little better for low sortie levels which is all that matters... right?

her survivability is comparably weaker than other frames outside of specific mechanic abuse regarding shield gating mechanics or specific mod synergies with health conversion, equilibrium which are nice *yes technically so long as you can continue throwing grenades every 4s she shouldn't die*

her dispensary while defended by various people and places i do think it is one of the weakest "supportive" abilities in the game *why use her for orbs when you could choose to use hildryn, nezha, wisp, trinity or many other frames with supportive capabilities*

and her 4, this ones a doosie
while i do think the rewind mechanic itself is fine

1: its damage is extremely low when comparing her to other frames with similar effects *equinox's maim absorbs 75% of damage enemies within its radius takes regardless of power strength, whereas protea absorbs  25% of damage her dealt scaling with strength*

2: its pull is extremely inconsistent, it could be bugs within the abilities itself, but it frequently fails to pull enemies within its radius regardless of if its using line of sight code
*i don't know its hard to tell sometimes with the line of sight mechanics* its somewhat reminiscent of mags magnetize before its pull was super buffed

3: there is no reason for it not to have a base minimum damage

4:  it wastes a lot of energy orbs when rewinding back to previous state for obvious reasons

i love protea's gameplay loop but to reiterate, i do not think the changes are enough
these were my general suggestions posted previously

more personal word here
yes i am aware that part of the intent behind her kit it to spam everything as much as possible while her 4 is active, as her rewind doesn't reset powers, but the complete non interaction between her 4's rewind mechanic and her currently active powers has really pushed me into using equilibrium +other synergies to maintain her energy/health to avoid ever having to interact with with her 4th ability, so i do really think having her 4 not rewind her powers is a little misguided, especially since she is a time themed warframe and in her quest itself she is capable of rewinding other entities

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Posted (edited)

(Primed) Flow gives excess energy capacity for Protea.
But spamming Grenade Fan and Blaze Artillery are so boring and inferior than weapons.
I want more exhausting energy option for abilities.

How about chargeable or togglable Blaze Artillery?(like hydroid)

Edited by blue_green

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Thank you very much! That's definitely a (small) step in the right direction.

That said, at this rate, I will honestly wait another 3 or 4 weeks of these tiny changes before considering testing her again.

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-06-18 at 10:51 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Blaze Artillery

  • Increased Duration of Blaze Artillery by 1 second, and doubled the Damage multiplier to compete against higher level enemies. Duration will now show in Arsenal stats instead of the maximum number of shots.
  • Protea’s Blaze Artillery will now shoot through Volt’s Shield, but won't benefit from its buffs.
  • Fixed Protea’s Blaze Artillery not targeting ragdolled enemies. 

Our goal here is to keep the spirit of the rapid fire Artillery alive, with just a bit more punch. We will monitor for feedback after this change as well. 

We should have chance to increase "firing arc". Sometimes it doesn't even shoot nearby enemies! 130 firing arc is too low! Why nobody is talking about firing arc? :((  And it also needs some range because when we put "Narrow Minded" the ability becomes really blind 😞

Edited by midarezakura23

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