Thoughts on Rivens in WF.

[StormWolf1337]

I had an interaction with a new player that kinda changed my perception on Rivens quite a bit. So I was helping him grind some Plastids, I was explaining builds and tricks and we eventually get to rivens.

I link a set of Godly ones and his reaction is "Holy sh*t, are those cheats/cheat mods?" and I couldn't really say no. I explained that since it's PVE then it doesn't count as much since the better you do would mean a faster/more efficient mission and that getting stats that could be considered 'cheats' to a degree takes a lot of investment. It was a lot of semantics that I went through justifying the investment to a new player but I could only end by telling him not to worry about em since he was a long while away from Sorties and such.

I realize though that to a new player it's like staring into an endless abyss of things to do to manage the riven systems and the stats can look cheat-like without a better understanding of a weapon's mechanics. As a regular player it's not as bad for me even if the Kuva RNG does make you wanna put a bullet into your own head sometimes lol, but I can understand a new player looking at rivens as an exploit.

Still though that comparison does stick with me, "cheat mods". Thoughts?

Edited June 19, 2020 by StormWolf1337

[CoefficientOfCool]

Great end-game time sink for all the players unwilling or unable to step away.

[StormWolf1337]

5 minutes ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

Great end-game time sink for all the players unwilling or unable to step away.

True.. That Kuva slot machine is like an addiction/disease heh

[Yakhul]

Cheats ehh? never thought someone would see em that way, but is interesting. Well, if you consider the fact that only a few players have this so called "god tier" rivens that have the best of the best cause RNGesus blessed em somehow, normally they are selling em. This rivens, normally for weapons that possess a disposition of 4/5 or 5/5 can make a weapon no one cares about, top tier. They are sold for ridiculous amount of platinum, aka, money.

You see where i am getting? Some cheaters will buy cheats from websites for stupid amounts of money, just to be able to "be good" at one or many games.
Newbies with their starter weapons that have a disposition of 5/5 will see rivens as cheats to "beat the game" and will unfortunately, open their wallet to the riven mafia.

But that's just a random thought i had in regards of the opinion of a new player calling rivens "Cheat mods"

[phoenix1992]

Well yeah, rivens are cheat mods.

[Traumtulpe]

Even better, they are cheats that you can buy with money. And they expire after some time, so you have to keep buying new ones (dispositions get nerfed, new weapons are meta).

Honestly, it was quite ugly when new "flavor of the month" weapons had high riven dispositions.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

People just aren't used to a game like this. Neither was I. 

Every game and online MMO had well established boundaries and rules beforehand:

You can never really jump too high and run too fast, the stat increases from the step-ladder gear system give you small increases over time as you collect a shoulder piece here, a belt there....

You start out with a basic bronze sword, a fire spell that's single target. Later on the spell turns into an AOE, but it's a small AOE in front of you that kills 4 dudes. Stunning.....

But warframes different, and nowadays a lot of games are. They're adding way more freedom of movement. Kind of expanding the sandbox if you will.

When I was younger, I thought dynasty warriors and GTA were like.... the PINNACLE of gaming. They put you in a huge arena to do absolutely whatever you wanted.

And in a way, warframe kinda reminds me of that old feeling of "whatever it is, do it". Its very Wild West in the sense that, "We don't know if its allowed, but who cares....everything else is all over the place have fun."

Melee mods being tied to abilities (Khora, gara), being able to teleport across an entire open world map (nova, wisp), aim bot AI that works for you (wukong), multiple complete area-denial abilities (Nyx, Equinox). And the list goes on.

I personally got the experience of finally farming for Magus Lockdown just to see it nerfed, but that's ok lol, because the rest of the entire games arsenal is entirely OP. 

I. Love. Warframe. 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

18 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Even better, they are cheats that you can buy with money. And they expire after some time, so you have to keep buying new ones (dispositions get nerfed, new weapons are meta).

Honestly, it was quite ugly when new "flavor of the month" weapons had high riven dispositions.

Or you could just use your stockpiled plat from selling the many random In-game items.....No actual money involved.

[Marvelous_A]

It's the ultimate sink, time sink, credit sink, endo sink, resource sink, plat sink. All for overkill damage that's not actually needed in the first place.

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Or you could just use your stockpiled plat from selling the many random In-game items.....No actual money involved.

So the plat just magically appeared in your stockpile? No, someone bought it, payed money for it.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Oh, and to answer the question: they're not cheat mods, no more than Berserker is a cheat mod (better than a Primed mod, and no one says anything).....

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

It's the ultimate sink, time sink, credit sink, endo sink, resource sink, plat sink. All for overkill damage that's not actually needed in the first place.

So basically, every frame and weapon after the originals?

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Oh, and to answer the question: they're not cheat mods, no more than Berserker is a cheat mod (better than a Primed mod, and no one says anything).....

That's a logical and factological fallacy.

Berserker is good if you have the time and range to ramp up.
A riven that comes with +Speed + Range + Damage - Finisher and takes one mod slot will always be better (example of a riven).
 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

So the plat just magically appeared in your stockpile? No, someone bought it, payed money for it.

Oh gotcha, yea lol. Well, such is life. Maybe you can start your own charity video game and let me know how it goes! 😄

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

That's a logical and factological fallacy.

Berserker is good if you have the time and range to ramp up.
A riven that comes with +Speed + Range + Damage - Finisher and takes one mod slot will always be better (example of a riven).
 

Even better if you put em both on! 

[phoenix1992]

Just now, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Even better if you put em both on! 

That's not the point.

You are putting on the same level an base mod that has prerequisites vs a base mode that is flat stat increase vs a mod with extreme RNG and platinum value. 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

So the plat just magically appeared in your stockpile? No, someone bought it, payed money for it.

This.

This is my problem with people saying "you don't have to pay, you can just trade for it".

Unless you directly trade your goods for someone else's goods, that platinum was bought by someone, which means it is money in DE's pocket.

And the longer that rivens continue to collect that platinum into the hands of a few, and the more and more the platinum stockpiles of those select few grow, the more and more money other players have to put into DE's pocket in order to keep the market going.

And thus DE profits from the Pareto distribution that Rivens bring.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

This.

This is my problem with people saying "you don't have to pay, you can just trade for it".

Unless you directly trade your goods for someone else's goods, that platinum was bought by someone, which means it is money in DE's pocket.

And the longer that rivens continue to collect that platinum into the hands of a few, and the more and more the platinum stockpiles of those select few grow, the more and more money other players have to put into DE's pocket in order to keep the market going.

And thus DE profits from the Pareto distribution that Rivens bring.

Even if the argument is good, it does not remove the fact that there is an option to "pay directly for it".

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Just now, phoenix1992 said:

Even if the argument is good, it does not remove the fact that there is an option to "pay directly for it".

I'm agreeing with you. Any system with as much rampant inflation as the Riven market only benefits the monopolies (riven mafia) and the money changers (DE).

And disposition nerfs will always hit the end consumer harder than the mafia member, as even if he gets caught with 3-4 now-worthless rivens, there were another 50 he sold in the last few months for insane profits. In fact, the smartest ones probably stop buying the meta rivens and try to empty their stock in the few weeks leading up to the next disposition change, since we all know exactly when those are supposed to happen.

So yeah, it's a crooked system, and the only reason DE allows it is either because it's profitable or because they are incompetent.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

That's not the point.

You are putting on the same level an base mod that has prerequisites vs a base mode that is flat stat increase vs a mod with extreme RNG and platinum value. 

Well it's a good thing they're here, so you don't have to see a buncha threads saying "What's the point of formaing new weapons if I'm just putting the same old mods on?

The game was gonna change no matter what, anyway. 

It was either rivens or simply every update: Hey guys, brand new mods! This ones gonna be stronger than the last! But it has a really rare drop rate so you can either be OP or sell it for a lot of platinum!

[jam2see]

The change to rivens so that they start on a disposition of 0.5 should help stop another situation like the Kuva brama rivens selling for 2k plat then getting nerfed into oblivion, which I appreciate as DE are hurting their own income with that change. I would not mind the riven system if ring was removed from the system. 

As for rivens being a trap for newer players I guess the mr requirements help but I don’t think are enough.

[MysticDragonMage]

its not too far from the mark.

god tier rivens are somtimes worth thousands of platinum and just one thousand platinum costs roughly 50 USD.

just two reasons why they are not exactly cheats is the fact that it is possible to get these rivens for free in game and that new players cant take advantage of these rivens until they progress and forma their weapons a few times.

but those are just two reasons overshadowed by the fact that they provide a ridiculous advantage and they can in fact be bought with real money.

not to mention the RNG for obtaining these rivens feels like they are only given to a selected few that have either the time or money. i hardly have either, so i guess i cant have these cheat mods.

Edited June 19, 2020 by MysticDragonMage

[WindigoTG]

The way mods work in general, giving hundreds of percents of damage out of nowhere without any drawbacks and all, makes mods in general "cheats". Modding system in its current form was breaking any hopes to have any semblance of ballance in the game in half way before rivens were even conceived.

Rivens barely affect anything in the grand scheme of things. Sure, they can make overkill weapons even overkill-ier. So what? It's just a different looking number popping from an already-dead-before-it-even-spawned body. You may say rivens but a cosmetic mod, changing how the numbers look, because other than that, you'd be struggling to see they effect in the actual game. At most rivens only affect the simulacrum warfare.

[(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn]

Don’t know or care for them.Another overly complicated grand.

Edited June 19, 2020 by (NSW)JJA209

[kevoisvevo]

An accident that should have been aborted in the design phase but only led to the rise of riven mafia, powercreep and price gouging. You can already see how many of the players are crying on the new 0.5 dispo begging DE to stick to powercreep. I think it's a good direction that DE is finally now sticking to 0.5 dispo for new weapons. Even the rivin mafia can't sell their tombfinger rivens for more than 500 play now. If they do, they get laughed and bullied off trade chat thankfully.