Do we need a 5th basic element or 4th physical?

[KaffeRausch]

4th physical damage type:
There is no breakthrough yet, the only question is how do you want to do it, you would have to grab the opponent and twist.
The status would then be "total internal damage", but that would be damage that would be immediate and how cuts go through everything.
 

For the 5th element:
Sometimes I think it would be a good idea to add a 5th basic element.
That would give the possibilities fresh * wind * again.

5th element + ice = drowning dot (effect like suffocation in a vacuum)
5th element + electrical = storm cloud mini AoE of Time
5th element + poison = swamp cap (what some infested can).
5th element + fire = penetrating plasma beam.

The 5th element should not be love ok ...
Void, Metal, Warp ... the only question is what could fit or destroy the entire game.

 

 

As a special for a warframe, that would be an idea, right?

[taiiat]

but why, would we have another Damage Type? what purpose would adding another add.

[Dhrekr]

We need neither. We got enough damage types.

[KaffeRausch]

il y a 11 minutes, taiiat a dit :

but why, would we have another Damage Type? what purpose would adding another add.

With new combination options, one could e.g. make an element at Hydro where it makes sense.

This warframe is said to be water, but it does damage to the formwork.

Then some concepts seem to turn in the Kries because they become too similar after all.

But you could also simply make the type of damage and status real for the respective Warframe Exclusive.

Then Hydro would also do water damage with its own weaknesses and strengths in the resistances.

 

 

@Dhrekr

Yes, I am noticing it myself, for many it is already confusing enough.

The element tree would look like this at some point.

Edited June 21, 2020 by KaffeRausch

[Tyreaus]

I think the more commonly cited problem is that we have too many. Some elements have been relegated to the dumpster due in part to crowding—why use Magnetic when 95% of cases can be handled better with Toxin? Treasuerers notwithstanding—and the complexities of the damage table are largely ignored outside of major bosses, and even then, it's mostly Corrosive and Radiation. Not to mention the sad state of affairs of Puncture and Blast...

[taiiat]

32 minutes ago, KaffeRausch said:

With new combination options, one could e.g. make an element at Hydro where it makes sense.
This warframe is said to be water, but it does damage to the formwork.
Then some concepts seem to turn in the Kries because they become too similar after all.
But you could also simply make the type of damage and status real for the respective Warframe Exclusive.
Then Hydro would also do water damage with its own weaknesses and strengths in the resistances.

but why.
how does this make Damage and combat in the game better? what does it accomplish.

we shouldn't add Damage Types just to fill flavortext, flavortext on its own can do that just fine.

 

18 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

I think the more commonly cited problem is that we have too many. Some elements have been relegated to the dumpster due in part to crowding—why use Magnetic when 95% of cases can be handled better with Toxin? Treasuerers notwithstanding—and the complexities of the damage table are largely ignored outside of major bosses, and even then, it's mostly Corrosive and Radiation. Not to mention the sad state of affairs of Puncture and Blast...

i blame much of this to having Stats large enough with Enemies especially now weak enough that what Damage Types you have almost doesn't matter.
whereas before what Damage Types did make a relevant difference and applying your tools the right way did make a relevant difference... and the Damage Types that were not usually desired could have been adjusted to address that...
but now i think we're just stuck in a hole either way since what Damage Types people pick will only make a rudimentary difference.
 

Edited June 21, 2020 by taiiat

[Omega-ZX]

I think... earth or sand as 5th element sounds good.

Effect: lowers accuracy for all factions

Combinations:
sand + heat = glass (heavy bleed effect, 10 stacks +200% of normal slash)
sand + toxin = hallucination (heavy toxin effect, at 10 stacks +200% of normal toxin)
sand + cold = stuck (can stop enemy, at 10 stacks enemy stops moving)
sand + electrizity = polarized (more weapon dmg, at 10 stacks +50%)

Edited June 21, 2020 by Omega-ZX

[Dhrekr]

3 hours ago, KaffeRausch said:

The element tree would look like this at some point.

Thanks for convincing me that I dislike this idea.

 

The system is already difficult enough as is. I have to bring out a flowchart when explaining it to new clanmembers. I don't want to have to take out a f****ng medieval grimoire.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

4 hours ago, KaffeRausch said:

4th physical damage type:
There is no breakthrough yet, the only question is how do you want to do it, you would have to grab the opponent and twist.
The status would then be "total internal damage", but that would be damage that would be immediate and how cuts go through everything.
 

For the 5th element:
Sometimes I think it would be a good idea to add a 5th basic element.
That would give the possibilities fresh * wind * again.

5th element + ice = drowning dot (effect like suffocation in a vacuum)
5th element + electrical = storm cloud mini AoE of Time
5th element + poison = swamp cap (what some infested can).
5th element + fire = penetrating plasma beam.

The 5th element should not be love ok ...
Void, Metal, Warp ... the only question is what could fit or destroy the entire game.

 

 

As a special for a warframe, that would be an idea, right?

Ehhh, wouldn’t work. This isn’t some Pokémon game. Toxic damage is real. You can get sick and die. Fire damage is real, you can get burnt and die. Frost is real, you can become frozen and die. Electricity is real, you can become shocked/electrocuted and die. And if you’re lucky enough to survive any of them, there will be some serious damage to your body, internal or external. 

Wind does nothing. Just pushes you. You can make bullets that burst into flames. You can make bullets that can freeze. Etc. etc. 

Now there is ONE way that air could be used, and that is basically like shooting a compressed air bullet into the enemies that would guarantee death cause the air circulating through the body and reaching the heart will cause it to completely shut down and you die. But DE is not gonna make something like that.

But there is no wind status. Especially from a bullet. Fire literally ignites things. Electricity stuns you. Toxic makes you sick which could throw you off. And ice can make you frozen or at least slow you down. Wind has no effect. Just pushes. 

Then you’re talking about merging them to create some Naruto element fusion or some kind of Yu-Gi-Oh GX elemental hero fusion. That is not how bullet damage works.

Now maybe if your goal was to have synergy between the frame like combining Frost and Ember’s first abilities to creates some massive blast damage, to inspire more teamwork, then you have my vote. But that’s not the direction DE is going with weapon damage. Weapons still try to follow reality while Frames have a little more fantasy involved. 

And there is literally no other physical type damage. You can either apply pressure such as impact. You can cut like slash. And you can penetrate like puncture. But breaking arms and legs and such that is literally a mercy kill/execution. Weapons cannot do that. A bullet cannot do that. 

DE is clearly trying to make the weapons be a little more realistic in how they damage enemies. 
 

 

[(XBOX)SirMilkfiend]

I'd like to make every element useful and powerful first. Like magnetic needs buffs so hard.

That said we already have a 5th element - Void. I'd love for some update after magnetic is made useful to add and rework Void as a mainstream elemental mod that can hybridise with the other elements. 

Void + Cold = Sleep. Relatively weak damage as element type but the procs open to finishers.

Void + Electric = Gravity proc, pulls in other enemies, flying enemies grounded. Combines well with Gas.

Void + Heat = Molecular Prime effect, explosion on death based scaling with health.

Void + Toxin = Damage on afflicted enemies regenerates your ammo, somewhat like the Grakata augment but open to any weapon.

Edited June 23, 2020 by (XB1)SirMilkfiend

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

A lot of naysayers...oh, well.

I like the idea but do agree that adding crossover/combination mechanics do make things unnessessarily complicated. So...

5th Element: Void Damage- because we already have it and it doesn't combine with anything. Also, I like the mini-mag-fields. As a weapon modifier, it could scale off elemental damage instead of the physical elements and ignore Armor.

4th Physical: Gravity (Graviton) Damage- Procs can root in place or "float" enemies. Ignores shields but has a greater status chance versus Armored enemies.