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[DE]Grineeer

Entry 2 – Oct 15, 2013

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While I am excited by the contents of the OP - I am even more excited by the simple fact that we're finally starting to get a bit of regular insight into what DE is busy doing.

 

 

Trading sounds irritating to be totally honest. Also I hope there are some serious restrictions because as many have already stated, trading ruins the point of this game. With no real point besides, grinding to get weapons and frames, trading ruins that. 

 

 

I second this. I don't want another mission type where I'm stuck using my secondary, yet I can two hand my melee.... Logical fail.

 

I have to admit, that is a side of the datamass missions that I don't like. Being restricted to secondaries only isn't a serious handicap (though it is annoying that you only weild one of your dual sidearms, couldn't we perhaps, carry the 'mass on our backs?). Having the entire team limited to secondaries and melee only might get a bit...irksome.

 

 

As for trading, I'm not really in agreement with you here KingKeif - Tenno looking to trade will (likely) - need a good stockpile of mods, credits?, resources? or components? - before they can realistically hope to trade for anything worthwhile. The only way to get those still is with hours invested in the game (or platinum for the lazy <_<) - so it won't be so much removing the grind - as removing the irritation of grinding for five hours to get parts you have no interest in. Trading seems like a potential 'fix' for RNG, as one can simply trade resources they have no need of - for those they're trying to get. Though of course, over time certain wares could come to be more valuable than others - which would limit the free exchange. Maybe there could be some sort of 'Lotus's Warehouse' - an artificial 3rd party that you could sell your wares too for a discount price, if no one is willing to buy them. 

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Wow, lots of awesome news. I'm really liking the new Sabotage mission, sounds fun and different from all the "Go to Point A, do B, Extract" that we have, which is one of the main reasons everyone plays Survival and Defense. 

 

However, I suggest the points rewarded correlate to the rewards given, so that more points equal better/more rewards. This will promote team play even more and actually give a reason to go for higher points for those of us who don't care about Leaderboards. 

 

Still, awesome post, can't wait to hear more!

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4 - forgot to leave it in the quote but, if the Fuel Rods deplete our shields, how much is that? 100%? 1%? should we expect to 'need' to put this down all the time, or is it simply to lower your long term battle survivability while carrying the Fuel Rod? will Rhino be the end all for this? Iron Skin is a free health bar on top of your two health bars as it is, will that make it trivially easy to just walk through rooms without the Fuel Rod taking damage?

more food for thought.

 

overall, i'm glad that the concept of the mission isn't being thrown out, only how it's presented and operates. and making it more engaging.

 

Perhaps instead of simply draining our sheilds - the rods have an effect similar to mag's bullet attractor - and actually bend enemy projectiles towards them (or whoevers carrying them) - somewhat addressing the issue of Rhino's inherent advantage. 

 

Of course that dosn't address the problem of shuttering game flow by encouraging you to stop - drop and shoot so to speak. 

 

 

Also I'm somewhat worried what effect this will have on the Grineer in particular - who already spam so much fire its ridiculous. Will carrying fuel rods become some kind of death sentence? We still don't have a fix for dodging / rolling to avoid fire - or enemies being more than just insta-headshot aimbotters - so adding an item that drains our health/sheilds still feels a bit like DE is getting ahead of themselves. 

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These are always a fantastic read, I hope you keep 'em coming.

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Glad to see that Mag's pull is getting looked at.  I really hope that they go back to the "set things up" power it was with Pull V2 rather than trying to be a straight damage ability it is now.

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However, I suggest the points rewarded correlate to the rewards given, so that more points equal better/more rewards. This will promote team play even more and actually give a reason to go for higher points for those of us who don't care about Leaderboards. 

 

Good idea - but I'm still waiting for news on the whole 'Synergy' system that we caught word of monthes ago and havn't seen hide or hair of since. 

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No volt? This frame is still complete trash with nothing to offer but a few gimmicks. Speed for rushing, something DE seems to loathe with a passion anyway, and shield for flux rifle/synapse/embolist/shotguns. Even then, electric shield was recently stealth nerfed, very much diminishing its overall effectiveness. Shock is near useless and Overload is a massive load of crap. Why don't you focus on fixing the frame that generates multiple new threads every single day and that everyone knows is the worse frame in the game by a long shot.

He's said before that he will be taking a look at Shock / Overload. Other than that, he mentioned in the OP that he was reviewing the latest batch of changes, not anything new at this moment. Give it time. :\

 

Also, really excited to hear that sabotage is getting a lookover. Hopefully it will feel a bit more exciting. I share some of the sentiments about carrying things, but that really comes from a bad taste in the mouth due to having to run around for 15+ minutes in the current spy missions, or 30+ if it's a secondary objective. Yuck.

Edited by DroppedaBeat

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I sure hope we can carry these fuel rods on our backs or belt.

It would allow us to have our hands free for whatever weapons we want to use.

 

Alternatively, why not make these things heavy so the Tenno needs both hands and can't fight at all, instead relying only on movement and acrobatics? That might make me use those acrobatic and heavy impact mods.

Anyway, sounds fun and lets us explore the maps a little more.

 

Looking forward to the quirky female bruiser. Sound very promising. Time to get a crossfit girl into this game. :D

 

Trading sounds fair if not a little contrived but the intentions seem good. We'll see.

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Carrying stuff? That's exactly what I hate about Spy/Deception. Weren't those getting reworked just to get rid of this stuff?

 

I am dissapoint.

who said you where going to be limited to sidearms? maybe you can finally put it on your back

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I know a lot of people are making comments about the new ideas revealed in the post (and rightly so - there is a lot to think about when it comes to the info about the new mode), I would like to ask about the (continuous?) development of the one that has already been introduced, namely: Survival.

 

Mission Types:
We mentioned on Livestream 10 (?) that we have begun to re-work some of the mission types in the game. You saw the first new mission type (Survival) in Update 10. We are ramping up our efforts to get these re-work/additions out in a faster manner. 

 

Is Survival still 'on the table' when it comes to possible improvements or are all efforts now redirected into the development of new mission types?

 

I am sure everyone knows what I mean - the extraction requirements. A lot of players (me included ) feel that we have moved from one 'less than ideal' system to another when it comes to extraction in survival. In the previous system players that did not want to play past 5 minutes could extract everyone simply by going to extraction... But now, after the changes, we are often 'forced' to play a mission much longer than we would like to, simply because it is virtually impossible to end it if even one of the players wants to push on. 

 

A much more elegant solution would be to allow players to extract at will - leaving less and less players to fight the mobs as mission progresses, and in such way leaving the option to fight and get more rewards to everyone separately. 

 

Bottom line: Is survival still being looked at or are we in a 'what you see is what you get, so suck it up and stop complaining' situation? :)

 

PS - Thanks for all the news! They look great!

Edited by Daeron8246
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WOOT I was hoping you'd let us trade with peeps we invite in :D

 

Sabotage missions sound like they may be fun, a bit favoring rushers but that is ok esp given the escalating spawns...hmm could be a complete and total S#&amp;&#036; show so I'm looking forward to it :)

 

Leave. Trinity. Alone. 

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I swear my topic on Mission Depth is having an effect on future developments. This is a good thing, though.

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"This is just a small set of the stuff that needs a look at for frames – more to come."

Sorry I didn't call out Volt specifically but he is part of the bigger list.

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I'm not sure I like the sound of the new mode.  Carrying objects means dependence on secondaries, which isn't much fun, IMHO.  Being tied to a weapon other you don't care for, while simultaneously losing your shields sounds aggravating.  Then you factor in that you're also tied to an explosive device....I'm not sure that sounds fun.  It certainly sounds like it's going to favor certain frames - Rhino/Ironskin, Loki/Ash/Invisibility.  But any frame with low health and high shields is going to be frustrating.

 

I'm more concerned about extraction though.  Last night I played a survival run with 3 randoms.  One of them decided to be uncooperative when we went to extraction, and we all eventually died because the air ran out and we got swarmed while waiting for him.  It was just cores to me, but focus had been a reward.  The level 2 mastery guy who was cooperating clearly needed it, and lost it through no fault of his own. 

 

Extraction mechanics that give you less time for doing well really seem like they'll have issues when players have different priorities.  Smells like trouble.

Edited by Phatose
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Mag was my first warframe, and now I have a Mag Prime to play with. However, I'm the first to say that Pull is quite OP. Recommend limiting the max number of enemies affected. Crush has an awesome animation effect, but it takes too long to cast. How about in addition to doing damage, crush actually crushes the enemy armor making it useless i.e. set armor = 0.

 

Ember: Playing Ember now in preparation for the new prime version. Overheat should be a mostly defensive skill. Ember already has quite low health and shields. Perhaps increase overheat duration and damage resistance (add a max 75% cap). Melee attackers still take fire damage.

 

Trading: Been waiting for this a long time. I like the ideas for this so far. However, can you please add the ability to outright give away stuff to other players?

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-snips-

Let's see.

 

Trading:

Sounds good so far.

 

New Warframe:

So we will have an official female warrior frame? Sounds like you want to distract people from trying to play Ember as one. Your fault for making her look like one ha. Will be interesting to see what you come up with.

 

New Mission setup:

Ah change, always something good. The leaderboard sounds like a nice bonus for those who are interested in it. Seeing how we allready have clans competing, this sounds like the logical next step.

 

Adding some variation to mission is a good idea. However your focus seems to be rather misplaced.

 

Sorry to be so blunt, but that sounds frustrating and needlessly complicated AS HELL. It's a great idea for special missions during an event, but NOT something you would want to jump in and play for FUN. Especialy since the reward at the end will just be a typcial mission reward. Having to escape with a time limit while the ship is affected by the reactor sounds fun and great, but all that fuel rod business is just adding a massively frustrating element to the game.

 

You allready aknowledged in a livestream that players are frustrated with having to carry datamass in a boxes around being reduced to their secondaries (actualy i don't mind it, but i can understand those who are) and having to be on a goose chase through the level, so why do you now want to add that players have to carry things around in another mission, only now it actualy harms them?!

 

How could you even imagine that the fuel rods draining your shield would be a good addition to the gameplay? Especialy since players are allready deadly depended on their shield because your health can't regenerate without aura, health pickups are next to worthless and your have too many enemies in this game which will eat your exposed health for breakfast if your shield goes down, who will show up once you go beyond Saturn, Jupiter and Uranus. Made only worse by the mind boggeling number of gimick enemies you love to throw at us, .

 

Why does it seem like your idea of adding "challenge" to the game actualy seems to boil down to adding more "annoyance"? Rollers (stagger), Shield Lancers (knockdown), Scorpions (knockdown), any heavy Grineer (knockdown), Ancient Disrupters (knockdown + shield and energy drain), Toxic Ancient (knockdown + GIMME A HUG!!!), Runners (knockdown), Exploders (stagger), Shield Ospreys/Drones, Leech Ospreys, Shockwave Moa (knockdown), Engineer (see Shield Osprey), Railgun Moa (stagger). Almost half of all enemy types are pure annoyance with their gimicks rather than true challenge to a players skills or a teams teamwork.

 

Okay you say that players can drop the rods to regain their shield. But that brings us straight back to the point where you recently changed the stamina system. Once again speedy space ninjas would be FORCED to slow down and take a break in the middle of a mission to regain something. It's counter intuitive to the theme of this game. The other alternative you mentiod is using team work so one can be protected by the others, but once again you fail to take the number of gimick enemies into account which can befall said unlucky carrier.

 

Why can't it just be about having to get two keys from two engineers in order to open the reactor. This way players would need to go from A to B and C and from there to D. Boom! Having to go through more of the level.

 

It reminds me to that one Left 4 Dead mode where everyone has to carry fuel to a car. Only we are not a bunch of survivors trying to escape a zombie apocalypse. We are a bunch of futuristic assassins with techno-organic power suits.

 

Also how come you once again seem to take your aim at a mission type that nobody really complained about? First you changed Raid, claiming it was the least played mission type (something my own experience in the last 6 month tell me otherwise), while leaving Rescue with it's brain dead hostage and Theft with it's goose chase data mass carrying untouched?

Didn't you said yourself that these missions would need an overhaul asap? So why leave them alone and focus on a mission type people are okay with?

I'm sorry but what comes next? Change extermination so players will have to pick up each killed enemies and bring them back to the start to dispose their bodies?

 

Why can't you instead focus on trying to make stealth gameplay more rewarding. We are ninjas, we have a right to be rewarded for trying to be stealthy.

 

Again, i welcome your idea for making missions more different and adding elements which affect the levels based on your actions, but the fuel rod carrying should go back to the drawing board. Please focus on Rescue and Data Theft first before you try to re-invent the wheel with Sabotage.

 

Warframe changes:

Ember - Again looking forward to what ideas you might have for her abilities to make her more diverse while staying close to her close combat caster gameplay and fire theme.

 

Trinity - Yep Link could be a bit more protective.

 

Mag - Maybe you should make enemies slowed down after they stand up again, in enchange for not having such a high damage?

 

"This is just a small set of the stuff that needs a look at for frames – more to come."

Sorry I didn't call out Volt specifically but he is part of the bigger list.

 

Hope Loki and his inability to cloak his Sentinel are on that list aswell.

Edited by Othergrunty
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• Carrying the fuel rods depletes your shields, you may need to drop them to recharge or switch between players.

 

Scott, we need to have a talk about your current draining shield fad.

 

Please.

 

For those confused, I'm referring to something he posted in the Design Council with the whole "fad" thing.

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Why can't it just be about having to get two keys from two engineers in order to open the reactor. This way players would need to go from A to B and C and from there to D. Boom! Having to go through more of the level.

 

Your idea sounds nice.

 

The new Sabotage mode does seem a bit overcomplicated, but again this is workshop material not end product.

 

Honestly it sounds like something that should be placed on outer rim planets. I would love to see missions get progressively harder as you head to the outer system, rather than just staying the same with mob level increases.

 

So for instance using your idea, on Venus you might be required to obtain 2 keys to unlock the door to reactor, while later in the game when you get to Pluto you may need to obtain 2 keys (now from bosses), locate the injector fuel rods, all in a situation where the base starts on high alert.

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taiiat, on 15 Oct 2013 - 4:10 PM, said:

i'm still very concerned about trading. and since Trading is going to be so open, even if only like for like, i still am afraid this will instantly totally invalidate all of the items in the game, and they will be trivially easy to get. need a Multishot mod? well that guy over there will just give you one because he has plenty of them anyways.

that's a scary thought, that playing the game could be almost entirely invalidated. be very careful about that.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I know plenty of people that I could have kept playing the game if I'd been able to give to them a handful of mods to stave off boredom from grinding for basic mods.

I have clan mate who reset his account some weeks into u7. Since then he still has not managed to get a split chamber mod despite getting almost every other damn mod in the game (and yes he has been grinding the right missions). Guess what? He'd really appreciate a trading system. As would many other people who have gotten screwed by rng.

Edited by Aggh
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