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[DE]Grineeer

Entry 2 – Oct 15, 2013

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Trading: I hope it will be more friendly towards non-clan players.

Improving Sabotage: fuel rods have a health is OK. But if carrying fuel rods depletes your shields, it only makes Rhino to be a most favorite frame. In fact I think many recent mission updates are biased towards Rhino, e.g. survival mission, dragon keys, ...

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Improving Sabotage: fuel rods have a health is OK. But if carrying fuel rods depletes your shields, it only makes Rhino to be a most favorite frame. In fact I think many recent mission updates are biased towards Rhino, e.g. survival mission, dragon keys, ...

i honestly dont think its possible to unfavorite the rhino unless they just added foot race missions, and even his slow speed can be modded, hes just a well made frame

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hi Scott, i'm not sure what will you do with the Pull,but here is one suggestion, let me pull downed teammates to my feet again ,pretty please, that utility to save downed people from far away was different and gave Mag the unique skill no other frame has

thanks

Well now just pull the enemies off them? 

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I'm disappointed that you decided to allow everyone to trade with each other. WTT spam is most assuredly become an annoyance, something I hoped I'd never see in this game. The only limitation that *could* still prevent that are the fact that its decentralized, not that easy to execute and that you cannot trade multiples of one item for another. I implore you keep the last two limitation in the future, and never increase the number of items for a single trade beyond one.

 

The sabotage mission type sounds interesting as a concept, especially once stealth relevant systems have been improved.

 

i honestly dont think its possible to unfavorite the rhino unless they just added foot race missions, and even his slow speed can be modded, hes just a well made frame

 

Indeed. It's not a problem with the mission type but the fact that Rhinos only drawback can be eliminated at close to zero cost by just putting on another helmet or exploiting the weapon spin momentum + latency bug. Unless these elements aren't balanced/fixed, things won't change.

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Basically, sabotage changes is another nerf to solo play, did I get it right?

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So what kinds of items can be traded?

Materials and Mods are sort of a given...

but what about blueprints? finished parts? Whole (unranked/unforma'd) warfrmes and weapons?

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You say that like it's a bad thing. I know plenty of people that I could have kept playing the game if I'd been able to give to them a handful of mods to stave off boredom from grinding for basic mods.

I have clan mate who reset his account some weeks into u7. Since then he still has not managed to get a split chamber mod despite getting almost every other damn mod in the game (and yes he has been grinding the right missions). Guess what? He'd really appreciate a trading system. As would many other people who have gotten screwed by rng.

and you speak as if that's healthy for a game. that's effectively a Diablo III cash shop, just without the cash. anything you're looking for with mods in Warframe? well, you can get all of them right here. all of them.

that's a potentially dangerous concept for a game that revolves around mods.

 

certainly trading can work, but getting it just right so it doesn't blow the entire game up in a couple weeks is a tricky challenge.

 

if everyone traded to other people what they didn't need or want, every Tenno would be overflowing with everything. that is an issue. 

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Let's see.

 

Trading:

Sounds good so far.

 

New Warframe:

So we will have an official female warrior frame? Sounds like you want to distract people from trying to play Ember as one. Your fault for making her look like one ha. Will be interesting to see what you come up with.

 

New Mission setup:

Ah change, always something good. The leaderboard sounds like a nice bonus for those who are interested in it. Seeing how we allready have clans competing, this sounds like the logical next step.

 

Adding some variation to mission is a good idea. However your focus seems to be rather misplaced.

 

Sorry to be so blunt, but that sounds frustrating and needlessly complicated AS HELL. It's a great idea for special missions during an event, but NOT something you would want to jump in and play for FUN. Especialy since the reward at the end will just be a typcial mission reward. Having to escape with a time limit while the ship is affected by the reactor sounds fun and great, but all that fuel rod business is just adding a massively frustrating element to the game.

 

You allready aknowledged in a livestream that players are frustrated with having to carry datamass in a boxes around being reduced to their secondaries (actualy i don't mind it, but i can understand those who are) and having to be on a goose chase through the level, so why do you now want to add that players have to carry things around in another mission, only now it actualy harms them?!

 

How could you even imagine that the fuel rods draining your shield would be a good addition to the gameplay? Especialy since players are allready deadly depended on their shield because your health can't regenerate without aura, health pickups are next to worthless and your have too many enemies in this game which will eat your exposed health for breakfast if your shield goes down, who will show up once you go beyond Saturn, Jupiter and Uranus. Made only worse by the mind boggeling number of gimick enemies you love to throw at us, .

 

Why does it seem like your idea of adding "challenge" to the game actualy seems to boil down to adding more "annoyance"? Rollers (stagger), Shield Lancers (knockdown), Scorpions (knockdown), any heavy Grineer (knockdown), Ancient Disrupters (knockdown + shield and energy drain), Toxic Ancient (knockdown + GIMME A HUG!!!), Runners (knockdown), Exploders (stagger), Shield Ospreys/Drones, Leech Ospreys, Shockwave Moa (knockdown), Engineer (see Shield Osprey), Railgun Moa (stagger). Almost half of all enemy types are pure annoyance with their gimicks rather than true challenge to a players skills or a teams teamwork.

 

Okay you say that players can drop the rods to regain their shield. But that brings us straight back to the point where you recently changed the stamina system. Once again speedy space ninjas would be FORCED to slow down and take a break in the middle of a mission to regain something. It's counter intuitive to the theme of this game. The other alternative you mentiod is using team work so one can be protected by the others, but once again you fail to take the number of gimick enemies into account which can befall said unlucky carrier.

 

Why can't it just be about having to get two keys from two engineers in order to open the reactor. This way players would need to go from A to B and C and from there to D. Boom! Having to go through more of the level.

 

It reminds me to that one Left 4 Dead mode where everyone has to carry fuel to a car. Only we are not a bunch of survivors trying to escape a zombie apocalypse. We are a bunch of futuristic assassins with techno-organic power suits.

 

Also how come you once again seem to take your aim at a mission type that nobody really complained about? First you changed Raid, claiming it was the least played mission type (something my own experience in the last 6 month tell me otherwise), while leaving Rescue with it's brain dead hostage and Theft with it's goose chase data mass carrying untouched?

Didn't you said yourself that these missions would need an overhaul asap? So why leave them alone and focus on a mission type people are okay with?

I'm sorry but what comes next? Change extermination so players will have to pick up each killed enemies and bring them back to the start to dispose their bodies?

 

Why can't you instead focus on trying to make stealth gameplay more rewarding. We are ninjas, we have a right to be rewarded for trying to be stealthy.

 

Again, i welcome your idea for making missions more different and adding elements which affect the levels based on your actions, but the fuel rod carrying should go back to the drawing board. Please focus on Rescue and Data Theft first before you try to re-invent the wheel with Sabotage.

 

Warframe changes:

Ember - Again looking forward to what ideas you might have for her abilities to make her more diverse while staying close to her close combat caster gameplay and fire theme.

 

Trinity - Yep Link could be a bit more protective.

 

Mag - Maybe you should make enemies slowed down after they stand up again, in enchange for not having such a high damage?

 

 

Hope Loki and his inability to cloak his Sentinel are on that list aswell.

 

Great post!

Hope mr. Grineer read it and  not get offended, but have some food for thought.

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Awesome to see you write here again!

Trading sounds awesome so far, as does the Berserker frame.

About the Rods, well, that would surely make the reactor sabotages even less liked by me. Hope the mission is going to be smooth and dynamic. And that you won't cut off Trin/Mag from restoring the carriers' shield.

Besides, doing it like that will prevent making a simple multipart objective out of them (because I still hope there will be those).

Then, there's the always-awesome "find and destroy mining machines"... Could use to have an organizing defence force near those machines, that's all.

Glad to hear Megan is doing her job so well, I never had a doubt in her! Really hope you take all feedback in consideration, even if it means that Trinity will take a while to get another fix. And, pretty please, look at the usecase of the frame before tweaking them, k?

Edited by GTG3000

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I dont think we need trading like this.  I`m affraid that some dude will come join the game and start spamming since the trading system is so opened.

 

so there will be opened trading system, ppl dont need to farm to get the things.  spam chat, get it, and done.  i think trading system should be more closed like squad based or somthing like that 

Edited by [DE]Megan
cultural remark

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and you speak as if that's healthy for a game. that's effectively a Diablo III cash shop, just without the cash. anything you're looking for with mods in Warframe? well, you can get all of them right here. all of them.

that's a potentially dangerous concept for a game that revolves around mods.

 

certainly trading can work, but getting it just right so it doesn't blow the entire game up in a couple weeks is a tricky challenge.

 

if everyone traded to other people what they didn't need or want, every Tenno would be overflowing with everything. that is an issue. 

Bahahaha.  If the loot had anywhere near the depth and variety that Diablo has you might have a point.  The difference is that they're all the same mods for each person and leveling up many mods takes at least as much time as it takes to get them.  The fact that many of the mods are so incredibly basic and eventually necessary, it makes it more of a pain than any kind of proper grind.

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only problem i see is the trading bit

to be honest im against it

like some posts above it allready said that same thing if trading will be applied into the game we are gonna see

 

1. Region chat getting spammed 

2. people scamming new players

3. people are gonna wanna trade/ sell items for platinum ( trade thru steamwallet or any other way for a prepay card )

 

it is gonna destroy the friendly community we have now and get replaced by botprograms spamming the chat like in any other free to play game

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Very nice. Those Sabotage changes sound really good. As does the addition of scoring for all mission types. It's great to hear these.

 

Trade does worry me, but I hope you're able to handle it well. I know the community wants it, but it can bring a lot of problems with it.

 

Thanks for the update. :)

Edited by UltimaHiryuu

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Thanks for the update. The clarifications really help to know how things will work here in the upcoming future. As always great work too all of you there. Keep it going! ~Stotiger

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On Missions

No offence the Sabotage sounds interesting in concept but inst it really just a reverse survival (in essence, X to Y to Z to nth and extract), or a deception/spy with depleting resource.  I mean you go from point X to point Y to point Z with a depleting resource, and take them all to point K.  The longer you do it the harder it gets.  I thought the aim was to make the missions more distinct, not more similar, not every one of them needs difficulity tiering.

 

While scoring is nice too (and fun for events and the special occurances), isnt that just fostering competition in what is essentially a game thats meant to be about working togeather.

 

On Trading

Allot of people seem to forget the plan is for it to be like for like (we also dont know if there are any additional costs involved), so you need to have something of value to trade for something of value. 

Given everyone wants rares, not everyone is just going to want to give them away for some crappy rare they dont need.  Sure you may do that for friends or (close) clanmates, but unlikely to do it for just any random player that asks for it.

Either way though the items you trade still have to be found or earned to make it into the pool of things people can trade.

Edited by Loswaith

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I Happy to hear than I will be able to trade with everyone, not only with my clanmates.

Improving Sabotage
• Your mission is to destroy the reactor as usual, how you accomplish this will be changed.
• Fuel rods located through the mission need to be sabotaged and delivered to the reactor.
• Carrying the fuel rods depletes your shields, you may need to drop them to recharge or switch between players.
• Fuel rods have a health - if you are carrying one you see its health; if you are hit a % of damage goes to the fuel rod. Don't be carrying it when it goes off!

Sounds like this new mode will be annoying as hell if you try to do it alone. I have some questions

1. What happen if fuel rod take too much damage? Player will be instakilled or what?

2. Is there any ways to repare rods?

3. How enemies will react on dropped fuel rod? Will they try to destroy it or something else?

And about that Oxygen Hunt mode (you call it Survival). Are you planning to replace it with True Survival?

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Good to see these entries are being continued. 

 

I'm very excited about trading, hopefully I can finally trade away some of the many blueprints I have been collecting. I really hope that we will be able to trade blueprints and Prime weapon parts, otherwise trading will be a big disappointment for me. 

 

While I welcome new content, I'd rather see some of the older Warframes getting proper skill overhauls. It's good to hear that Ember will already be getting the treatment but I'm sad to see that Volt is still being ignored. Come on, guys! People have complained and given a ton of suggestions for a very long time, it's about time Volt got the attention he deserves. 

 

As for mission type overhauls, I guess I'll have to play the updated mission type myself, before I give any opinion on it. It does sound like it will be a lot more involved, I hope it won't get old as fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ummm, this will probably get washed away with the tide of comments before and after, but I question why certain mission types are just being completely killed off.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I like the new mission layouts - Survival is fun beans! But it killed off Raid. Now old Sabotage is being killed off for a bigger, more complicated version.

 

Here's the thing - we have a ton of in-game locations. Wouldn't be surprised if there are over 100 nodes in the current Solar system. The missions you guys decided to cut are the simple, straightforward mission types that most of us were weaned on in our early levels. Simple mission objectives gave us some time to get to grips with important mechanics while still moving forward. 

 

Here's my idea - keep the old mission types. All of them. Tweak them a bit if needed, but USE those simple objectives like "Destroy the Core" and "Grab the relic" for the earlier systems like Mercury.

 

Then, as you progress, you start taking part in larger scale operations (bigger ships=more effort to destroy, in the case of Sabotage), and the simple mission objectives give way to more difficult and complex ones that give better rewards, more credits and exp etc. when completed. This way, the entire game becomes more difficult as you progress to higher levels, rather than just having enemies soak more ammo/damage.

 

I feel that this would help to ease newbies into the game while at the same time providing a wider overall level of variety.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by psyanide
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Improving Sabotage

• Your mission is to destroy the reactor as usual, how you accomplish this will be changed.

• Fuel rods located through the mission need to be sabotaged and delivered to the reactor.

• Carrying the fuel rods depletes your shields, you may need to drop them to recharge or switch between players.

• Fuel rods have a health - if you are carrying one you see its health; if you are hit a % of damage goes to the fuel rod. Don't be carrying it when it goes off!

• One fuel rod must be delivered to the reactor in order to complete the sabotage mission.

• More fuel rods = more points and less time to extract

• Spawning will become more intense over the course of the mission. Reaching its height when the reactor blows up.

Scoring will be determined by number of rods brought to the reactor, and the reactor itself.

• Players have limited time to extract based on number rods used.

• Exploding Hazards when extracting the mission: Flame vents, exploding heat, randomly decompressing the last few zones

 

Sounds interesting but I think we need a for more details being explained.

1) How many of the fuel rods will spawn per mission?

2) Will losing all the fuel rods cause instant failure of the mission? Or does it enable extraction as a fail state? Or does it enable a different option?

3) If a Rhino is carrying one and he has Iron Skin active, does the damage absorbed also go to the fuel rod?

4) How exactly is one the fuel rods carried? You could switch it up and say it straps to a Tenno's back to prevent melee weapons or to the legs to prevent secondary usage. Negating Primaries is a right pain...

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Trading:

Trading will require a clan with a trading post. A little known feature of the Dojo is that you can invite outside people(non clan members) into your clan’s Dojo, so trading with external people will be possible. You won't be required to join a clan in order to trade, you will just have to be invited to a clan dojo - . *(Currently only the host can invite to the dojo, this will be fixed before trading is live.)

 

 

 

Im wondering if outsiders can be invite to Dojo .. so what about Labs and Clan Weapons... Still there is nothing what can prevent clans from players who Join Clan buy schemats and leave clans ... still we dont get nothing what can prevent this system...

 

Witch trading.. what about permissions.. maybe Warlord can give some rights to player who can inv ppl to dojo...

And i want to see what about buying schemats from dojo labs..

 

What about some tools what can prevent from schemats "stealing", why ppl still can buy and leav clan.. and after that they keep whole schemats and still can use Dojo Weapons.

 

--- Scot pls give us some information abut that, realy we players we want to make Clans more important in game, curently realy players dont need clans, even one person can build labs and make all reserch. ---

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Thanks for the update :)

 

tbh. I am expecting quite a lot from the mission reworks. I think they are the #1 promising updates that have been announced so far.

But I am a little worried.

 

Players, like myself, are getting worn out after playing so many Endless / Mobile Defense and Survivl misssion. Since all you do is defeat waves of enemies that get more and more difficult.

The only reason for doing a different mission so far was to progress in the starmap or when going to Derelikt / Orokin Void .

I don't have the data but when looking at hardcore players that try to play in an efficient way (grinding wise) I am sure that Survival missions are the #1 played missions right now.

 

I think the reason for that is the way players are getting rewarded for doing those missions. This is something that I didn't see get addressed by DE. At least I didn't notice you guys talking about it so far and this makes me a little nervous. I wish this would be something to talk about in Entry 3.

I will try to explain precisely why I think this is an important topic to discuss about.

 

 

 

Here you have been talking about Sabotage and how you want to design an interesting game mode with interesting decisions and mechanics. But I am afraid players will still dislike this mode (as much as they dislike Sabotage right now) if we still get rewarded in the same way as before. Which was lacking in my opinion.

 

I am sure you are aware of that but it would be great if you could involve us into your thoughts about how you are thinking of rewarding your players for playing different missions.

 

I want to put my thoughts in here.

Playes are always looking for things to loot. These things are XP, Ressources, Credits, Mods, Parts and Blueprints. These are the things that make us choose where we are going to play next. These are the rewards you can give us (so far).

 

Now at one point players will run out of the need to look for loot. Thats when they crafted and collected everything in the game.

Since we get content updates regularly I am simply stating we will never reach that point (some already did but they will most likely come back as soon there is new stuff to loot).

 

Thats why I put lootables into two categories. Constant requirements and limited-requirements.

Limited requirements (LR) are items you have to collect once or twice. Those are Parts,Blueprints and Mods.

Constant requirements (CR) are items that you will always need for something else. Those are XP, Ressources, Credits and Mods as well.

 

The reason why Mods are in both categories is the fact that you can fuse any mod to increase a mods level.

 

 

The first decision players make in my opinion is: Do they want to fulfill their need for LR or CR (not intentionally of cause. This is only a theory).

Based on that decision they go to the Orokin Void or raid Bosses to fulfill LR or any regular mission (including non-Assasination Orokin Derilict Missions) to fulfill CR.

 

The first problem we can notice with this is that playes will stop playing Orokin Void (OV) or Boss missions eventually at some point whereas they will always look for a regular mission to fulfill their need for CR.

Thats why I say that rewards have to be balanced between mission types of regular (non-OV, non-assasination) games.

 

To be more precise: Right now we are getting differen loot depending on in which system we play. In this case it doesn't matter which mission we choose to play. Only which missions and which enemies are present in that system.

 

Now you could say that playes will decide which mission to play based on personal preference (and they will probably stick to that decision until they change their mind).

But you could also say that its not a decision that players are making. Its a calculation! They calculate what mission will reward them most. Thats why I always end up playing that mission where the most enemies spawn in a short period of time (Survival). And thats where this game gets boring for me. Thats where I see a potential failure in the mission reworks attempt.

 

Thats why I am asking to start communicating with us.

In what way do you want to ensure that players are motivated to try out different missions over a long period of time?

How are you planning to reward us for missions that do not spawn lots of enemies in a short period of time?

Will a sucessful stealth mission ever reward the players accordingly?

 

Thanks for reading!

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Ummm, this will probably get washed away with the tide of comments before and after, but I question why certain mission types are just being completely killed off.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I like the new mission layouts - Survival is fun beans! But it killed off Raid. Now old Sabotage is being killed off for a bigger, more complicated version.

 

Here's the thing - we have a ton of in-game locations. Wouldn't be surprised if there are over 100 nodes in the current Solar system. The missions you guys decided to cut are the simple, straightforward mission types that most of us were weaned on in our early levels. Simple mission objectives gave us some time to get to grips with important mechanics while still moving forward. 

 

Here's my idea - keep the old mission types. All of them. Tweak them a bit if needed, but USE those simple objectives like "Destroy the Core" and "Grab the relic" for the earlier systems like Mercury.

 

Then, as you progress, you start taking part in larger scale operations (bigger ships=more effort to destroy, in the case of Sabotage), and the simple mission objectives give way to more difficult and complex ones that give better rewards, more credits and exp etc. when completed. This way, the entire game becomes more difficult as you progress to higher levels, rather than just having enemies soak more ammo/damage.

 

I feel that this would help to ease newbies into the game while at the same time providing a wider overall level of variety.

 

Thoughts?

 

This is a great point. I always wondere why Survival is the first mission players are going to play in the future. Its the most complicated in my opinion.

Thats something that will scare new players away most likely. I remember when I started playing the first mission I played was Exterminate. Straight forward, kill every enemy. It prepared me well for future missions and it gave me a chance to explore minor aspects of the game like controlls, loot and navigation.

 

I can't imagine if I had to get used to the Survival game mode at the same time.

 

Ok, now we have the Tutorial. But I would ensure that new players are getting introduced to the game as smooth as possible.

 

psyanide's suggestion is ensuring exactly that.

 

 

 

We could even explore that idea more and say that there is a basic and advanced mods for every node. You can unlock the advanced missoin type as soon you accomblished the basic one.

 

The Basic mod of Endless Defense would be to survive 5 waves for example. Basic mode of Sabotage would be oldschool sabotage etc.

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