Some ideas on how an Excalibur rework should look like

[Raz0r42]

Hi tenno! I'm an excalibur main and i have an idea on how to rework some of excalibur's abilities. 

(also please keep in mind that these are just some of my ideas that in my opinion seem like a good option)

 

I'll start with his 1st ability which is mainly what i'm going to focus on.

When you toggle the ability on, excalibur goes into a state where the energy flows on him (like when we used to have channelling). While the ability is on it consumes a bit of energy, you dodge map elements easier (stuff like crates for example), and you are able to run vertically and horizontally on walls. If the player jumps off the wall and does a slam attack with the melee, that hit will deal additional damage. Doing so will consume a bit of energy. Doing the same thing with the exalted blade will deal a bit more damage and will also consume more energy. When you're done, you simply toggle the ability off.

 

The other ability that has a problem is his 3rd ability.

His 3rd ability is a cc  skill that does damage. What I think it happened is that when armor scaling became a thing the ability became more like a cc that tickles the enemies for a bit while the damage is so low that you can barely see any difference. This happens even with level 13 enemies. I think there would be 2 options for this one:

First would be to make the ability stronger, which might be a lost cause and I honestly don't know if people want a nuke excalibur.

The second option  would be to make it an ability similar to valkyr's 2. It would also fit excalibur considering he is a melee based frame.

 

I personally don't have a problem with his 2nd and 4th abilities but i belive that his 1st and 3rd really need to be reworked.

Those were some of the ideas I had, If you have any suggestions on how to improve them or simply other ideas I'd be glad to read them!

[Artekkor]

I don't really think that his 1 needs any changes. It works MOSTLY fine, it just needs some scaling power (be affected by melee mods?) and a slightlyy better / more reliable range.
Maybe UI that shows you which enemies you are going to slash dash, because as it is right now i swear its like im taking a gamble on which enemy will be slashed, and which isn't.
Or maybe slash dash could work like Ash's ultimate - mark a certain set of enemies in vicinity to slash them one by one.

The issue with 3rd ability is old as the game. Its a static damage-dealing ability that does NOTHING else, except for that barely noticeble stun - which is also redundant because 2nd ability exists. What it needs is synergy with other abilities and other effects besides damage. Maybe it should deal more damage to enemies that were flashed, or apply some amasing debuffs to them, like hardcore bleeding or major armor stripping.

So the end result could be flash to stun> javelin to strip armor / apply other debuffs > slash dash to finish the job.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

Excalibur is already very powerful since his last rework. While the first ability suggestion sounds cool, it would give this one warframe unique advantages on all main mission maps. Perhaps if it was purely parkour and no damage increase, it could be a viable first ability. Historically first abilities are more specific than the other three. While I would love to see more synergy between his abilities, the truth is we already have an “better” version of Excalibur in Umbra. I have used Excalibur since PS4 launch and love using him, but I think he is strong enough. Further improvements would simply welcome future nerfs.

[Teridax68]

I can agree that Excalibur could benefit from some changes. In this respect I am in partial agreement with the OP:

10 minutes ago, 44TheBlackWolf44 said:

When you toggle the ability on, excalibur goes into a state where the energy flows on him (like when we used to have channelling). While the ability is on it consumes a bit of energy, you dodge map elements easier (stuff like crates for example), and you are able to run vertically and horizontally on walls. If the player jumps off the wall and does a slam attack with the melee, that hit will deal additional damage. Doing so will consume a bit of energy. Doing the same thing with the exalted blade will deal a bit more damage and will also consume more energy. When you're done, you simply toggle the ability off.

I personally don't quite agree with this part for two main reasons: for one, Slash Dash is arguably worth keeping, as it looks cool and has its own function, it just needs improvements to its targeting and possibly its power in order to keep up to date (e.g. by incrementing the melee combo counter for each enemy hit). Second, I'm not sure if the above kind of steroid would be appropriate for Excal, particularly as its multifaceted nature is unlikely to make it digestible to new players: in my opinion, Excalibur is secretly one of the most difficult frames to design for, because his kit needs to be as simple and easy to understand as possible for new players, because he's one of the starter warframes, and the game's poster child.

10 minutes ago, 44TheBlackWolf44 said:

First would be to make the ability stronger, which might be a lost cause and I honestly don't know if people want a nuke excalibur.

I think this could actually be a viable avenue with the right mechanic. This is something that's been suggested before, but the core principle could be: make Radial Javelin a melee heavy attack, and have it consume the melee combo multiplier to multiply its own damage. Not only could the ability thus scale with melee mods (from Excal's Exalted Blade), melee stealth bonuses (including the bonus against blinded enemies, so there'd be synergy with his 2), and so on, the ability would allow Excal to become a solid nuker if he spends a lot of time meleeing, without him being able to spam the thing either for the same high damage each time. At that point it would probably be worth altering his Exalted Blade so that its waves also increment the melee combo counter (currently they don't), for full synergy, but even without that it could still potentially work on him.

[Raz0r42]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

Excalibur is already very powerful since his last rework. While the first ability suggestion sounds cool, it would give this one warframe unique advantages on all main mission maps. Perhaps if it was purely parkour and no damage increase, it could be a viable first ability. Historically first abilities are more specific than the other three. While I would love to see more synergy between his abilities, the truth is we already have an “better” version of Excalibur in Umbra. I have used Excalibur since PS4 launch and love using him, but I think he is strong enough. Further improvements would simply welcome future nerfs.

I agree, especially with the fact that excalibur is a very powerfull frame. What i don't like is the fact that this power comes only from its 4 (and a bit from his 2). As you said, more synergy between his abilities would really help.

[Raz0r42]

7 hours ago, Artekkor said:

I don't really think that his 1 needs any changes. It works MOSTLY fine, it just needs some scaling power (be affected by melee mods?) and a slightlyy better / more reliable range.
Maybe UI that shows you which enemies you are going to slash dash, because as it is right now i swear its like im taking a gamble on which enemy will be slashed, and which isn't.
Or maybe slash dash could work like Ash's ultimate - mark a certain set of enemies in vicinity to slash them one by one.

The issue with 3rd ability is old as the game. Its a static damage-dealing ability that does NOTHING else, except for that barely noticeble stun - which is also redundant because 2nd ability exists. What it needs is synergy with other abilities and other effects besides damage. Maybe it should deal more damage to enemies that were flashed, or apply some amasing debuffs to them, like hardcore bleeding or major armor stripping.

So the end result could be flash to stun> javelin to strip armor / apply other debuffs > slash dash to finish the job.

Well yes that also sounds good but if his 1 would be to stay the same then we really need more control over it (or as you said, maybe something that shows us which enemies are going to be hit). But as it is right now, at least in my opinion, its animation is very clunky and just breaks your flow (especially if you miss your target)

 

[Raz0r42]

7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Slash Dash is arguably worth keeping, as it looks cool and has its own function, it just needs improvements to its targeting and possibly its power in order to keep up to date

Well Slash Dash should look cool. In reality it doesnt look that great. But if they improve it the way you mentioned and also make it look like we all think it should look like then I'd be glad to have it

[nooneyouknow13]

15 hours ago, Artekkor said:

it just needs some scaling power (be affected by melee mods?

It already is, which show how bad of a damage skill it is. It's the lowest damage stat stick skill in the game, and can't crit or cause status. Before melee 3.0, the ability seemed fine because exalted blade scaled damage with the melee combo counter, and hid how weak slash dash actually was. Now the waves don't scale with combo, so the abilities terrible base damage is a huge issue. If Slash Dash inherited Exalted Blade's damage types, and had the same crit, crit multi and status, it'd go a long way to bringing it back in line with where it was.

 

Radial Javelin pretty much isn't salvageable at this point. I'd like to see Excal's swordsmanship passive increase block angle by 20 degrees for affected weapons, EB increased to a block angle of 160 degrees before the passive so it'd be 180 after, and replace his 3 with a skill that doubled your block angle and allowed for small health recovery on block.

 

Also, at least until Vor's Prize is removed/reworked, Excal cannot have a non-damaging 1st skill.

[nooneyouknow13]

15 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

(e.g. by incrementing the melee combo counter for each enemy hit).

It already does this. The augment just adds extra hits.

[Xaero]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

Excalibur is already very powerful since his last rework.

The only very powerful thing about Excalibur is the augment for Radial Javelin. And this power is pretty much pointless since Excal doesn't have enough survivability to make use of it.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

8 hours ago, Xaero said:

The only very powerful thing about Excalibur is the augment for Radial Javelin. And this power is pretty much pointless since Excal doesn't have enough survivability to make use of it.

I think if someone has a hard time surviving with Excalibur it is user error as his abilities give him strong control and damage output. I have yet to find a mission where Excalibur couldn’t get the job done, at least in his Umbra state.

[Xaero]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

I think if someone has a hard time surviving with Excalibur it is user error as his abilities give him strong control and damage output. I have yet to find a mission where Excalibur couldn’t get the job done, at least in his Umbra state.

It seems you aren't aware of Furious Javelin potential. I'm talking about these damage numbers:

At the enemy levels where FJ could be useful Excal will just get one-shotted.

[kevoisvevo]

9 hours ago, Xaero said:

The only very powerful thing about Excalibur is the augment for Radial Javelin. And this power is pretty much pointless since Excal doesn't have enough survivability to make use of it.

Furious javelin ain't too useful though. You an just replace it with arcane fury. I think all his augments are trash except for his 2nd augment which increases finisher damage by 300%. As for survivability he can always use arcanes like arcane ultimatum, adaptation, quick thinking. He can survival lvl 400+ when modded well. Problem is he is just a one trick blind spam pony

Edited June 24, 2020 by kevoisvevo

[Xaero]

43 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

Furious javelin ain't too useful though.

It's not just "not too useful", it's completely pointless, though very powerful.

43 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

You an just replace it with arcane fury.

No you can't. Arcane Fury stacks additively. Furious Javelin stacks multiplicatively. That means Furious Javelin, unlike Arcane Fury, multiplies your total damage output.

45 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

I think all his augments are trash except for his 2nd augment which increases finisher damage by 300%.

And what do you need finishers for? Melee in its current state obliterates everything with just normal attacks. The only augment that allows Excal to stand out as a damage dealer warframe is Furious Javelin, though you'll never need its buff in normal gameplay.

49 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

As for survivability he can always use arcanes like arcane ultimatum, adaptation, quick thinking. He can survival lvl 400+ when modded well. Problem is he is just a one trick blind spam pony

Spamming blind/finishers brings down his killing effectiveness a lot. It's a bad crutch. Now if Radial Javelin gave damage reduction based on number of enemies hit (the same way FJ works but with DR instead of dmg), that would be a very nice addition.

[hefirey]

if slash dash gave temporary invincibility after ability ends it would be great too, I mean while in slash dash you can get up close but once it ends you cant deal much damage nor quickly strategically retreat. If de could give an augment to slash dash that gave additional invincibility per enemy hit by slash dash that would make Excalibur much more useful, the invincibility doesn't stack, and resets once slash dash is reapplied. 

[ShortCat]

18 hours ago, Xaero said:

Now if Radial Javelin gave damage reduction based on number of enemies hit (the same way FJ works but with DR instead of dmg), that would be a very nice addition.

If you need Excalibur with a DR - play Gauss. You will get your DR in his #2 and scaling melee damage in his #2 and #4.

Excal can be made beefy enough to survive lvl 150-200 enemies. After that, even a DR skill is not enough to face tank enemies. However, Radial Blind works at all lvls. If CC is not enough, you can combine it with Arcane Trickery and become immortal invisible. We already had this discussion: Excal does not lack survivability options, you just don't like the way to play them.

[(PSN)fdsc77]

Even some minor changes like maybe giving Slash Dash some more damage, more range and a larger hitbox (since the chain has a tendency of whiffing half the damn time) and giving Radial Javelin level scaling (similar to the scaling given to Vauban's Flechette Orbs in the buff he received after his rework) would make the abilities have at least some uses at higher levels.