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Saryn Buff?


-NTB-Cris0407
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Saryn is strong no doubt, but her main drawback is she does everything slower than other nuke frames and makes up for that in raw weapon damage output/status procs. 
 

People for whatever reason might hate it but a miasma that makes all enemies in the area very vulnerable to damage sounds like something saryn should do.

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6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:
  • Toxic Lash's damage reduction deleted.

That is just an extremely silly thing to claim. Do you even know what damage reduction you are refering to?

It was a redundant mechanic of the skill since it is now a free mechanic to all melee. This "damage reduction" was fully tied to block only, which you back then had to manually use while lash was active. Now you have 100% damage reduction when you face the enemy (based on angle) with your melee drawn.

Then you ignore the buffs she has recieved, like Miasma increasing spore damage by x4 instead of x2. Aswell as making her unique among "ult spam AoE frames" by reducing her miasma cost by 25% naturally.

But yeah, lets focus on the game wide changes and call them nerfs for a specific frame.

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2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It was a redundant mechanic of the skill since it is now a free mechanic to all melee. This "damage reduction" was fully tied to block only, which you back then had to manually use while lash was active. Now you have 100% damage reduction when you face the enemy (based on angle) with your melee drawn.

Then you ignore the buffs she has recieved, like Miasma increasing spore damage by x4 instead of x2.

Not at all. With Toxic Lash active, Saryn had 90% damage reduction from frontal enemies while attacking. You no longer block damage while attacking at all. It was very nice with the Redeemer Prime; Shoot while mantaining 90% DR and healing via Healing Return.

Miasma does not increase Spore's damage by the way (aside from the Viral proc).

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29 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:
  • Toxic Lash's damage reduction deleted.

both previously and now, exclusively when Blocking, which before meant holding Block (and not attacking). but now that's anytime Melee is in your hand(and still not attacking, though now Blocking can interrupt literally anything else we're doing for some godawful reason).
but since we get 100%DR for holding Melee in our hand, there's no point in Toxic Lash being able to add 90% onto our existing Block value(since Blocking was globally capped to 90%) since it's already 100%.

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Then you ignore the buffs she has recieved, like Miasma increasing spore damage by x4 instead of x2.

to be fair the Damage of Miasma was reduced in trade for the Multiplier on Spores being increased because Digital Extremes didn't like that people were using Miasma to Kill Defense Waves. more of a psychological change than an actual one, not really any different now perse, but it was something written as a nerf in the Changelog so people stopped doing it.

Edited by taiiat
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2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Not at all. With Toxic Lash active, Saryn had 90% damage reduction from frontal enemies while attacking. You no longer block damage while attacking at all. It was very nice with the Redeemer Prime; Shoot while mantaining 90% DR and healing via Healing Return.

Miasma does not increase Spore's damage by the way (aside from the Viral proc).

No it has always been about active block on her, hence several complaints over her old lash mechanic. It was a bonus in addition to the normal block value. Excal is the only frame that has ever had passive blocking. You may have used the mod that granted auto block.

Miasma does inscrease spore damage on any effected target in addition to the viral proc. Nothing changed when the new viral status was added.

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1 minute ago, taiiat said:

which before meant holding Block (and not attacking). but now that's anytime Melee is in your hand(and still not attacking, though now Blocking can interrupt literally anything else we're doing for some godawful reason).

You could block damage while attacking before. Trust me. What you could not do, is block while casting - which you can do now.

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Miasma does inscrease spore damage on any effected target in addition to the viral proc.

No, Miasma does more damage to targets affected by Spores. It does not increase Spores damage. The "buff" to 4x you believe it to be was actually a nerf - the damage to spored enemies stayed the same, damage to non spored enemies got cut in half.

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4 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

No, Miasma does more damage to targets affected by Spores. It does not increase Spores damage. The "buff" to 4x you believe it to be was actually a nerf - the damage to spored enemies stayed the same, damage to non spored enemies got cut in half.

True, I was thinking backwards. Yeah spores buff miasma, not the otherway around.

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2 minutes ago, AltairFerenc said:

not gonna lie as a Nyx main I really got upset when I saw this post

So you main a Warframe that can be literally invincible, and are upset you don't deal as much damage as a Warframe that has no damage reduction whatsoever.

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You know what, I'm on this dude's side. Saryn definitely needs a buff. After playing a few days of Explosive Ledger Mirage, and killing everything right as they spawn before the enemies can even appear as a blip on the Saryn's radar, I always felt sorry for poor Saryn players and how they never get to do anything.

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Just now, Traumtulpe said:

So you main a Warframe that can be literally invincible, and are upset you don't deal as much damage as a Warframe that has no damage reduction whatsoever.

All warframes are more or less invincible since shield gating was added. I honestly cant remember the last time I gimped my movement and clear speed with Nyx in order to be invulnerable since shield gate got added. Saryn is all about popping a molt if shields drop to zero, which in most builds gives her another shield gate through augur mods and some breathing room as the molt gets focused.

WF is about killing, being able to be invincible and static or extremely slow doesnt add much in the end.

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Just now, (NSW)Reason said:

You know what, I'm on this dude's side. Saryn definitely needs a buff. After playing a few days of Explosive Ledger Mirage, and killing everything right as they spawn before the enemies can even appear as a blip on the Saryn's radar, I always felt sorry for poor Saryn players and how they never get to do anything.

Explosive Mirage doesnt scale well though. It eventually dies off. She's just the new Quake or WoF star chart hero that can do sorties with the same build.

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1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

So you main a Warframe that can be literally invincible, and are upset you don't deal as much damage as a Warframe that has no damage reduction whatsoever.

yeah because either stuck in place or move like a snail, abosrb is a panic button when you are seconds to die nothign else, mind control doesn't matter unless it's an anchient healer or shield drone and they don't scale at all(that shooting thing is bs I only use it so they can die when the durration runs out) 100% armor strip is nice on bolts but it's only 6 enemies and the targeting is so awful that multiple can hit 1 enemy or just fly into nothingness
Chaos is useless in public since the room is dead before it even finished casting(and locks you into place because why not)
Abosrb is a joke damage wise, it only abosrb 10% of the incomoing damage because after every 1k damage it drains 10(or so) bonus energy just because while equinox who has a similar storing damage mechanic doesn't has any restrictions at all, has a bigger range and doesn't have to be in the center of attention to make the ability work,
Also the passive is a joke "reduced threath level" wtf is even that? nyx can only be played in solo basicly wich makes it useless since you are alone, and absorb just nullifies the passive but still doesn't forces them to attack you,
Sure you can jump around with specific melee weapons with assimilate but that still doesn't makes it a good ability at allsince you just sacrificed durration and range for efficiny so you don't run out of energy in every 3 second in high levels because of that pointless bonus energy drain

while saryn can just cast spore wait a bit, cast miasma and everything is dead

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6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

So you don't like Nyx at all and consider all of her abilities, and her passive, to be awful.

Why "main" her then?

The fact that I love her doesn't negates the fact that she is bad, rahetalius mained vauben while he was bad and asked for a rework for years saying the problems with him. I can love and main a frame while acknowledgeing the problems of it

 I enjoy her playstyle but it can be only played solo wich negates the passive, that is a joke in public too anyway.

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32 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You could block damage while attacking before.

no, you could not. Blocking was disabled as soon as you pressed the attack button and Reflex Guard always had the downside of Autoblocking cancelling your attempts to do things.
it's exactly why Blocking and things that benefitted to or from Blocking were hyperniche - a war of attrition that you always lose because the Enemy has way more Health than you do so you still have to Kill the Enemy anyways, making Blocking borderline useless except for gap closing.

lying to me isn't going to get me to agree with what you want.
targeted the wrong person for that.

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The only change I'd ever make to Saryn is not having her stacks get ****ing deleted for losing your last spore for 0.2 seconds. Because of this, she's literally useless anywhere outside of ESO or a rare handful of nodes (under specific conditions) that have a high enough mob density and respawn rate to let it work and do it's thing. It's frustrating having minutes of build up lost in 5 seconds because of a lull in spawns. 

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Buff Saryn? Lol Saryn is about the last frame that needs a buff. Saryn is a boarder line S tier frame. Saryn makes other frames bad just because she is an option. Saryn is the frame I use if I am only half playing so I can press 4 every 30 seconds and still deal top damage while I am eating. So no. No buff for Saryn! 

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personally I see saryn as a debuff/buff frame, spreading corrosive and viral in a 50m radius is nutty, and buffing your weapons with toxin and you and allies with corrosive damage is real nice. She's in a good place right now I think, do I say she needs a buff? She's p good where she is, but would like to see a miasma augment, some reason revealing spores came out before it, omegalul. Nerf? Depends on what you think constitutes a nerf, I mean she does what she is supposed to do, I don't think that is a problem. But if you say that she does what she does, while other warframes don't do what they are supposed to do, so that means nerf saryn, I'd argue the logic there but if so I guess if you wanna pull her down it would be to nerf the damage of spores/miasma, her system of spreading corrosive spores, buffing corrosive, buffing toxin, spreading viral(you usually have viral on your weapons anyways, guess it's more like making sure all enemies have viral for low status weapons, and buffing damage of spores themselves) is exactly what she should do.
 

Oh, one thing I would like to see is a change to molt maybe, I find it quite lack luster, sure it's good for augur, but the whole casting at your area, and it's threat level not being that high is kinda underwhelming, when I cast an aggro control skill I expect aggro to be controlled not just some enemies attack the molt while some attack me.

Some suggestions I guess I list(could choose one, could mix em together):

1. Invisibility upon cast this one is prob my favorite one, though turning her into a stealth frame would be the most broken thing, rather make it a thing like skiajati/wukong's 2 augment/shade/stalk, where if you attack(whether it should unstealth upon skill is up for discussion) then it unstealths, so it's more effective as in escape skill, because I shouldn't have to use an escape skill multiple times with an augur set/brief respite to take advantage of shield gating, a rolling guard into an escape invisibility sounds way more practical.

2. Increase threat level this one is p important, when I cast the skill it's more like a, who's closer, the molt or saryn, which if I'm casting it at my location, I am almost always closer to the enemies, so it makes no difference, this would make it so enemies are going to attack the molt. This could also be similar thing to Octavia's resonator, where it charms enemies to only aggro the resonator(or the mallet if it is carrying it), which would be better than it is right now.

3. Explodes upon cast, aoe stun, this is prob least favorite because, literally miasma stuns enemies in a 50m radius, but I mean if the first 2 options are deemed too op(I don't think they are, just would complete saryn's kit, just because she's good doesn't mean she should have a gimped skill) but I mean it's something

 

So pretty much, I acknowledge that that saryn doesn't need a buff in damage, by doing dot to everything in large radius, buffing herself, debuffing enemies, that, may not be as much direct damage as like a khora, but is saryn's identity as a character, which is good. Just to complete her, a miasma augment(I have no ideas for this one, go crazy, don't make it dumb tho) and making molt more effective would complete her and leave no qualms.

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26 minutes ago, ZetekP said:

Oh, one thing I would like to see is a change to molt maybe, I find it quite lack luster, sure it's good for augur, but the whole casting at your area, and it's threat level not being that high is kinda underwhelming, when I cast an aggro control skill I expect aggro to be controlled not just some enemies attack the molt while some attack me.

Molt is among my favorite abilities in the game. It is so amazing now, compared to how it once was. While an increased threat level would be very nice, I believe it would flat out make Molt overpowered.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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Saryn doesn't really need a buff unless it's to shift her away from spores. If I was going to buff her I would put a cap on spores damage, rework her 3 so that the augment is baseline, and figure out something to do with her 2 other than using it for the augment, even if it was just reduce the energy cost. My ideal wishlist would be to make her back into the toxic god she used to be and bring back spreading toxin procs onto enemies as her main source of damage.

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OP makes a valid point. Saryn got an incidental nerf on her 4 with status reworks wich is a design issue. Followed by 2 pages of very out of topic rants.

I read last week that discernment was a masculine trait.

Edited by Galuf
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