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THE STEEL PATH! Upcoming 'Hard Mode'.


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Ah yes, thank you for the Unique rewards I can finally add more new decoration to my Orbiter! now i can flex hard on my clan Mates truly what i needed thank you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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I hope this is aimed at players like me who are gravitating away from WF because of lack of challenge. If thats the case though the fact DE specifically aren't looking at the endgame experience makes me wonder what this is actually about.

Would I appreciate harder missions and unique rewards? Absolutely.

Having gotten them will I stay around to repeat them? Probably not.

Will this fix any of the issues regarding overpowered Tenno / unbalanced mods / overabundance of resources including (but not limited to) endo, nano spores, credits, reactors, exilus adapters and more? Clearly not unless you do another Grendel style "you cant use most mods" and the missions all require resource built keys. (and would I enjoy that? I actually really would, yes!)

So yeah it sounds fun for a week- but speaking as someone who has enough resources and blueprints to build then deploy a small legion of Oberons, I'm crying out for an endgame here and it's dissapointing to see DE not even want to have a go at it when paying attention to the late game. I could, for the record, still use an arbitrarily large (pun somewhat intended) supply of Kuva. +Damage, +Multishot, +Crit%/x, -Zoom/+Recoil is a very rare roll after all.

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17 hours ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

If DE is watching/reading REMOVE the rewards I don't care. I am a point of the game where unless its new I don't need it even if u hand out plat per hour. All I want is Hard enemies to use my builds and knowledge against. These HARD enemies cannot be provided with the current scaling,people are going against Level 9999 Demolyst Enemies with various melees tankfacing thanks to the (in my opinion) unnecessary and poor mechanic cold shield gating.

Hope you still be saying that after a while, cause most of the people who says stuff like this will later complain about it not ''rewarding'' and so why would they run it? once they tested their strength and ''skill'' and the cycle will continue. I really hope  that you actually mean that and would always play this mod without getting any rewards from it. Even tho our opinions may differ. i will always respect someone who stick to his own words rather than begin a Hypocrite.

Btw if you're hoping for this to be actually challenging then you're in for a massive disappointment. 

Edited by Koga.
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4 hours ago, IGN_Maverick said:

If rewards are not appealing, I won't be interested to play it more than 1-2 times. Simple as that.

oh no don't say that, the tryhard ''pros'' gonna crucifix  you for stating your opinion on the internet 

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I don't care if this is actually hard or not, that ship sailed like hour 3,000 of playing this game and my 5,000th or so overall forma, and in my opinion, that's perfectly fine, I didn't want a mode with an enemy level boost for the challenge, I wanted it so I can cut out a middleman of easy enemies and for a efficiency boost on farming.

My main interest is in this: How will the rewards scale in compensation for the extra enemy level? Will relics dropped be radiant like in ESO or x3 like with disruption credit drops? Can we do Steel Arbitrations, fissures, and even sorties? Because if we're doing harder enemies it shouldn't be just for the sake of doing harder enemies, I'm gonna attempt to do this from start to finish just for the mastery but I'd like some life beyond that which doesn't involve .0001% drop chance of a cosmetic nobody will see.

If we're jumping straight into the deep end, it should feel like we're getting the amount of rewards we would have gotten if we started in the shallow side of the pool first, because there will be a dilemma here that people will be like "why would I play this if I get less rewards for more effort?" 40 minutes of easy mode is 40 minutes of rewards, this should not be the case for 40 minutes of hard mode, hard mode should be like opening up sony vegas and snipping off the first 40 minutes of footage you recorded with a chance at your footage being erased if you screw up, which means you start at a baseline of theoretical 40 minutes of rewards and go from there, and to do that there would either be a multiplier on rotation rewards or relics dropped would be radiant like in ESO.

IIRC I can count on one hand the times I've gotten someone on my orbiter, cosmetics that aren't syandanas/armor/skins/sigils/etc. that can get directly put on the warframe might as well be snake oil to me in terms of their value as rewards. 

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Il y a 17 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

What it isn’t:

 

- intended to be associated with the nebulous ‘end game’ topic.
 

 

While it's very commendable that you don't just do a level 100 pass and call it endgame, it would also be very welcome if you started working on this nebulous endgame topic. It's been seven years now, and once you pass a certain power treshold it's hard to feel challenged 🙂

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i realy hope the rewards are nice. its a bit frustrating right now, even if u sit for Over an Hour in a game you still get less rewards then 5 minute index...

80 min survival should give 1,5 million credits atleast and not 150k. lol

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Now that we are going to play at higher levels, there could be escalated tactics employed by the AI. Paragon Lancers. Paragon Bombardiers. They could deploy drones. How about enemies x3 taller with vulnerable and invulnerable parts, with ways to heal. 

Edited by Burosan
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14 hours ago, (XB1)Graysmog said:

Maybe DE should just take fifty pages out of the eighty page Destiny 2 Enemy Design Handbook.

- Weaker units are quite pitiful until they gang up on you, but most have a special attack that deals quite a bit more damage than normal. This is sort of already in the game with Thralls from Liches, so the baseline is there, just pump up the numbers.

- Tougher units now have a special shield that explodes outwards when using the damage type they're weak to. So you destroy a Grineer Heavy Gunners Shield with Radiation, causing them to blow up and deal damage to surrounding enemies. This would add more of an incentive towards using the right element on the right enemy, but would be more of an additional thing, until DE adds "Super Hard" mode or something that forces you to bring the right element to even deal damage to the Shield at all.

- Eximi stay roughly the same, but now gain additional bonuses. Some outright ignore CC and become incredibly resilient, others gain a shield that completely heals them and makes them invulnerable if you fail to kill them fast enough, some just consistently heal the damage they take over time and heal faster if you're not damaging them, the list goes on.

- Extremely tough units are now eligible to be Eximi, with all of the previous changes. Yes, that does translate to Juggernaut Eximi, and bosses.

- Using the wrong elemental combos is now heavily punished, making units take normal damage from the correct elements but 90% from the incorrect elements.

- Grineer now receive their own nullifer-esque options. You can easily rip the drones from LoR and slap them into regular missions, making them small Ability denial tools that can easily be taken out with a shot or two. Just give the Grineer something man, I mean, why not make the Seeker useful too by having each drone attached decrease your Power Strength by 10% or something?

- Enemy units now have more universal use across the board. Have the Commander turn fellow Grineer into Eximi if he sticks around for too long, give the Infested some "landmine" creatures that pop up and explode (spawning from the Leaping Thrasher, which along with the Undying Flyer, is now found in regular missions), the list goes on.

- Throw in some more interesting mission modifiers that really change how you play, and what enemy variations you deal with. Maybe Headshots deal 100% more damage, but Body Shots deal 90% less, making you favor Precision weapons. You can make it so Critical Hits can only occur on Headshots, or have Status Damage severely decreased but Status Proc Chance severely increased, maybe even make it so you need to get a Parazon kill every so often or you suffer consequences. Actual, serious modifiers that will actually make players try something else out in order to succeed.

I'm afraid that if DE really wants to add difficulty to the game, it's basically going to involve a massive gameplay overhaul, for both enemies and ourselves.

Very good ideas and yeah an overhaul for both us and enemies would probably be needed, and imo it is really long overdue. The idea of bringing the right element can be seen in Borderlands, where using the wrong element higher up deals very little damage, unless of course you also bring slag in some way. Something similar could be seen here, we do afterall have 3 weapon slots in each loadout plus the frame, so mixing and matching wouldnt be that much to ask for.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Koga.:

oh no don't say that, the tryhard ''pros'' gonna crucifix  you for stating your opinion on the internet 

Indeed

Edited by --Q--FSK41
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I said it once and i`ll say it again, I think you should have the option to choose the enemy level you want to play at like the simulacrum and I should also include other missions like syndicates, kuva lich missions. This would make it a whole lot more fun,to play due to it giving ppl a reason to play. If it`s not like this, I will only be playing it for the rewards ( if they are any good) and once I get them I`ll never play it again, and that`s something you don`t want ppl to do.

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20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes, but just being sponges doesnt add any challenge, it adds tedium.

Yes. And very much so. If the enemies can't kill you anyway, adding millions of hitpoints is just pointless (couldn't resist that one...).

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WF needs other things, more units similar to arbi drones etc. that halt our mindless AoE killing along with targeted nerfs to the outlier AoE frames.

Partly agree. Yes, 'hard mode' could (and should) have mechanisms that shut down popular endurance setups, otherwise it will be anything but hard and the mindless toobers will flock to the toober-solutions. Not much fun in that. These kind of mechanisms have been tried in other modes (ESO, Disruption, sorties, arbi) with some success and some failure (they have simply produced gamemode-specific meta instead of the normal ones).

For instance, it would be fairly easy to continuously log the warframe abilities most used (in 'hard mode') and randomly shut down an additional one from that "top twenty" list for each rotation, resetting after 20 rotations (or something similar). That would continuously f*ck up the meta's and actually really make it harder, though I suspect a lot of "I want it harder"-players would scream and cry about not being able to cheese their way through the "hard mode" they have been clamoring for. 

AoE killing is not a problem, it is a legit way of dealing damage. While meeting single enemies head on in one-on-one combat might feel chivalrous, that is not really what Warframe is about. I also think the need to clean out the "mass of foot soldiers" and then specifically find a way to drop high-risk targets is a nice dynamic, and it is sort of built in all over the star map (ready to be utilized in "hard mode").

- - -

Scaling rewards would make "hard mode" into a farm, instead of "hard mode". Not a good idea. Rewarding players for taking on tougher enemies is one thing, using "hard mode" to maximize farming is something else altogether.

One reward I really would like to see is a random relic drawn from ALL relics that has ever been in the game (= including vaulted ones), much like getting the extra relic reward every fifth rotation in void fissure missions. Even if there is a chance of getting a "vault-breaking" relic, that in itself would be a chance for newer players to experience something that is otherwise never coming back (unvault relics are generally different than the "originals"). I really think it would feel like a "big thing" getting a F1, or a T1, or anything from the murky past of Warframe. A small "wow!", and we all need those moments. The statistics could be calculated so that the effect on the vault/unvault system would be negligable, and the unvault rotation is anyway heading for problems (more and more warframes, longer and longer intervals between unvaults). Also, this type of concept ("blast from the past") has worked quite well in some collectible game settings (no, not going to mention any specifics).

Edited by Graavarg
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1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

Partly agree. Yes, 'hard mode' could (and should) have mechanisms that shut down popular endurance setups

AoE killing is not a problem, it is a legit way of dealing damage. While meeting single enemies head on in one-on-one combat might feel chivalrous, that is not really what Warframe is about. I also think the need to clean out the "mass of foot soldiers" and then specifically find a way to drop high-risk targets is a nice dynamic, and it is sort of built in all over the star map (ready to be utilized in "hard mode").

Scaling rewards would make "hard mode" into a farm, instead of "hard mode". Not a good idea. Rewarding players for taking on tougher enemies is one thing, using "hard mode" to maximize farming is something else altogether.

 

The first entry is very correct.  In hard mode alot more things than just damage dealing abilities should be countered, so people cant stealth cheese and so on. IMO DE should have probably held back on hard mode until they could actually come up with a solution to counter the cheese tactics and balance several of the frames.

AoE killing itself isnt the problem, the problem is how certain frames are excluded from certain rules that apply to others that are design for and do the exact same thing. Like Saryn and a few other ignoring LoS requirements while the rest of the damage dealing roster needs to follow them, even though the kits are about the same in damage dealing strength. Same goes for AoE weapons ignoring walls etc. They should be changed to work like melee AoE and follow the same rules, same as Baruuk should also follow the rules for cover and walls with his serene storm.

For me the scaling is important so both normal and harder modes are equally rewarding over time. It doesnt have to be a strict improvement, just so that I can estimate to get the same loot per minute in HM as I do in normal. And DE kinda dropped the ball on this since hard mode will reward mastery, so it is no longer an optional place where we just go to take on tougher enemies. They've also said that mod aquisition will be better in hard mode. So I really dont see why other things shouldnt have better aquisition aswell so we can enjoy this mode all out. I will for instance never hit up hard mode if I need kuva or other future rare resources, just as I wont hit it up if I need specific relics or vitus essence, since it will just slow down the rate at which I'll get them vs the time spent.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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4 hours ago, WaifuJanna said:

i realy hope the rewards are nice. its a bit frustrating right now, even if u sit for Over an Hour in a game you still get less rewards then 5 minute index...

80 min survival should give 1,5 million credits atleast and not 150k. lol

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yeah it need to provide better or more rewards because no one is going to do a mode how do not reward you in any way, not even tryhards

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About time we get Uncle Teshin back. I'm imagining Teshin's voice lines...

"Much like T H E   C O N C L A V E, the Steel Path will pit you against the greatest enemy that you will ever face: yourself T H E   C O N C L A V E."

"With the Steel Path, you will learn to steel yourself from those who would attempt to devour you, much like T H E   C O N C L A V E."

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