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THE STEEL PATH! Upcoming 'Hard Mode'.


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il y a 1 minute, --Q--FSK41 a dit :

Wrong there,i don't care about rewards at all. Hell even if u take relics away from me without giving me what is in it (like a ,,pay'' ) do it. I only want some hard enemies to go against nothing more nothing less. Rewards? I don't care. I would pay every of my 43000 plat to  get the OLD enemy scaling back.

You missed understand me, my point was : i don't want to do a lvl 10 mission anymore, so let me do ALL missions at lvl 100+

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1 minute ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

If DE is watching/reading REMOVE the rewards I don't care. I am a point of the game where unless its new I don't need it even if u hand out plat per hour. All I want is Hard enemies to use my builds and knowledge against. These HARD enemies cannot be provided with the current scaling,people are going against Level 9999 Demolyst Enemies with various melees tankfacing thanks to the (in my opinion) unnecessary and poor mechanic cold shield gating.

That is all fine and dandy but scaling rewards doesnt remove that option for you. It is however an incentive for others because several people do not see inflated levels on basic enemies as hard content. For most of us it just means less efficiency since the TTK is naturally longer versus higher level enemies.

If we were talking actual mechanics that changed enemy behavior into being interesting, challenging and rewarding just by fighting them, then I'd agree that there would be no need for more rewards. But uhm... WF isnt that game. WF is the reason why the US never found WMDs in Iraq, since they all teleported here through void magic.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb TrysLi:

You missed understand me, my point was : i don't want to do a lvl 10 mission anymore, so let me do ALL missions at lvl 100+

I am sorry if u misunderstood you there then.

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40 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

1818622534_image(22).png.97b26c6bd1dbdd9
THE STEEL PATH:

Teshin has an opportunity for Tenno who have proven themselves. Those who have completed the Solar Map will be invited to unlock THE STEEL PATH from Teshin in a future update.

The details of THE STEEL PATH are as follows. These are not complete Patch Notes. We wanted to give everyone a chance to review details on The Steel Path in a very simple Dev Workshop. Just over 1000 Tenno will be playing these changes over the weekend for practical feedback. 


What it is:
 Higher Difficulty Series of content that rewards exclusive cosmetic decorations, emotes, and mastery.
An extra layer of opportunity for players to use their powerful gear to take on threats at a higher level without having to wait in missions for long periods of time.
 A way to engage with some better scaling Affinity and Mod Rewards.


What is isn’t:
- intended to be associated with the nebulous ‘end game’ topic.
- overly complicated in its goal to simply provide higher level content and some exclusive rewards.
- tiered. We are providing one 100+ level pass to be cognizant of matchmaking for our first iteration. 

If you have unlocked all missions in game can enter our Test Cluster Key Lottery here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1203250-public-test-cluster-opt-in-key-lottery-2/

 

*cracks knuckles* Bring it on.

Edited by (NSW)Glaive-012
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7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Still a very odd thing not to mention when they took the time to clarify there's mastery, affinity adjustments, and mod drop chance adjustments.

I'm not asking for a dropdown table of scaling drop chances per node. But the omission of any mention of it when other things were highlighted feels intentional.

Well, I'm only going by what was said in the past as well as what was said in here, and then making my own conclusions based off of that. If they never mentioned it because it's not there, then fine. If they didn't mention it because they simply chose not to say it in this specific post, then okay. I'm just going to take things at face value and not be worried about it (though, I understand your concern and it's a fair one).

Edited by (NSW)MasterJ93
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+100 is WAY too low - That's like Sortie / Arb level.

People looking for a Hard Mode want around +1,000 - To start. Zens videos for example show builds and strategies to clear level 10,000 enemies. Calling something "Hard" and setting the level to 1/100th that is... Somewhat of an insult to the player base.

Edited by Reelix
typo
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I hope there won't be a 30 frame lock like on ESO so I can actually take advantage of the higher affinity in these missions while formaing my frames for the umpteenth time.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb SneakyErvin:

That is all fine and dandy but scaling rewards doesnt remove that option for you. It is however an incentive for others because several people do not see inflated levels on basic enemies as hard content. For most of us it just means less efficiency since the TTK is naturally longer versus higher level enemies.

If we were talking actual mechanics that changed enemy behavior into being interesting, challenging and rewarding just by fighting them, then I'd agree that there would be no need for more rewards. But uhm... WF isnt that game. WF is the reason why the US never found WMDs in Iraq, since they all teleported here through void magic.

No behaviour DOES not matter at all. People say Numbers don't make a difference in challenge,but it does. If the enemy smart but dies if I cough at him he does no pose ANY threat. I can understand why DE made the enemy scaling EASY (AF) on all levels in the Star chart but can we have the OLD scaling back in ONE MODE at least that is literally supposed to be ,,hard mode''.

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Gerade eben schrieb Reelix:

+100 is WAY too low - That's like Sortie / Arb level.

People looking for a Hard Mode want around +1,000 - To start. Zens videos for example show examples of builds and strategies to clean level 10,000 enemies. Calling something "Hard" and setting the level to 1/100th that is... Somewhat of an insult to the player base.

Zen showed something all vets know,they destroyed the little challenge endurance proposed. Enemy scaling was nerfed so ridiculous. A level 9999 Ancient had around 500M HP before the Update and now has 430k. That is pathethic. We need the OLD scaling back to call it hard otherwise they can start at level 9999 and we ll laugh at it

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40 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

1818622534_image(22).png.97b26c6bd1dbdd9
THE STEEL PATH:

Teshin has an opportunity for Tenno who have proven themselves. Those who have completed the Solar Map will be invited to unlock THE STEEL PATH from Teshin in a future update.

The details of THE STEEL PATH are as follows. These are not complete Patch Notes. We wanted to give everyone a chance to review details on The Steel Path in a very simple Dev Workshop. Just over 1000 Tenno will be playing these changes over the weekend for practical feedback. 


What it is:
 Higher Difficulty Series of content that rewards exclusive cosmetic decorations, emotes, and mastery.
An extra layer of opportunity for players to use their powerful gear to take on threats at a higher level without having to wait in missions for long periods of time.
 A way to engage with some better scaling Affinity and Mod Rewards.

Wait,does this mean we will see mr30? If nothing else beong able to revisit the old maps and have to push will be interesting. Then again it all depends on if the enemies will all be power and status immune.because if so you are gonna drive inaros useage up and then oh look you suddenly nerf him because you skewed the game to favor us taking a big bag of health instead of using our powers.

 

Assuming that does not happen? I am looking forward to this.

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One hope I have for this is that it's a way to take the missions we're already running (ie Void Fissures, Kuva Siphon/Flood, Sorties, Invasions, or even Syndicate Missions) and amp up the difficulty. *Maybe* increase the rewards for doing so, too? Like extra Void Traces, Kuva, Standing, etc. For Invasions, it could count as extra mission completions. For Sorties, it could have reward percentages skewed towards the rare rewards. 

The biggest thing is: it'd be nice to be able to turn up the difficulty when doing anything in Warframe. It'd help with any feelings of content getting stale.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Morasain:

I hope there won't be a 30 frame lock like on ESO so I can actually take advantage of the higher affinity in these missions while formaing my frames for the umpteenth time.

Is that all you think about? Leveling? I don't think this mode is for you then. This is supposed to be a mode where you push your limits,try out your minmaxed builds etc. not leech affinity.I suppose Hydron is your desired location mate.

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6 minutes ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

Even starting at level 9999 would not be sufficient,a level 9999 Ancient has laughable 440k HP after the (in my opinion worst update) aka the scaling change. This will not be hard mode it will not pose any threat to us not even a test,i cant spawn an enemy in my Simulacrum (level 170) that withstands attacks from a serious melee with a serious build longer than 2 or 3 seconds. Please enable the OLD scaling in this mode to make it truly a HARD mode

Wouldn't matter. Armor bypass is stronger now due to the changes to Viral's damage multiplier working on slash procs and melee 2.9 plus the status buffs made forcing powerful procs easier. Even if scaling was returned to the old exponential growth of EHP due to health and armor it wouldn't make the game harder, just restrict it more to weapons that can reliably proc slash against armor and not change anywhere else. If you want a solution to the difficulty question you best start looking outside of scaling as the solution as people with proper builds were able to nuke max level enemies before the scaling changes and that capability would only be enhanced now. Scaling will always be a question of math not skill.

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I am so glad there is a lore integration for the "hard mode" project. I hope it means we get to hear from Teshin a little more.

As for the rewards, there's only one thing I would remind you of. The Eidolon Lens, a requirement for the highest tear of your most important long term system, drops from a single mission on a single node in the game. By all means, make it an extremely rare drop but PLEASE, PLEASE make it drop from more places so we don't have to grind the 5th bounty in POE for 3 hours to get one. The steel path is a perfect chance to mitigate this. 

 

Edited by Amebot
typos lol
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1 minute ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

No behaviour DOES not matter at all. People say Numbers don't make a difference in challenge,but it does. If the enemy smart but dies if I cough at him he does no pose ANY threat. I can understand why DE made the enemy scaling EASY (AF) on all levels in the Star chart but can we have the OLD scaling back in ONE MODE at least that is literally supposed to be ,,hard mode''.

But it is just sponges and 1HK mechanics in the end. Which just results in a dice roll outcome with no actual real challenge. The way WF is set up we cant have real challenge in the game. Kinda like there is no real challenge in D3 either, just more HP and damage resulting in random deaths. Atleast D3 has ever scaling rewards tied to their system.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb xRufus7x:

Wouldn't matter. Armor bypass is stronger now due to the changes to Viral's damage multiplier working on slash procs and melee 2.9 plus the status buffs made forcing powerful procs easier. Even if scaling was returned to the old exponential growth of EHP due to health and armor it wouldn't make the game harder, just restrict it more to weapons that can reliably proc slash against armor and not change anywhere else. If you want a solution to the difficulty question you best start looking outside of scaling as the solution as people with proper builds were able to nuke max level enemies before the scaling changes and that capability would only be enhanced now. Scaling will always be a question of math not skill.

It was always and will always be possible to kill enemies at high level with slash procs that are buffed by mods and other things such as viral. It is in the nature of Slash as it bypasses armour,the old scaling would help because now any melee can kill most level 9999 far to easy,its like I cough at them and they die,also giving a cap to shield gating or at least something like a extending timer so you it looses reliability over time (for example needs 10 seconds cooldown and gives 0.1 seconds protection after u used it 100 times) would make the game harder over time.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

But it is just sponges and 1HK mechanics in the end. Which just results in a dice roll outcome with no actual real challenge. The way WF is set up we cant have real challenge in the game. Kinda like there is no real challenge in D3 either, just more HP and damage resulting in random deaths. Atleast D3 has ever scaling rewards tied to their system.

sponges are part of challenge like I reasoned before,without HP they pose no threat no matter  how smart they are.

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Bullet sponges are important, however with the amount of things that can bypass scaling and also scale themselves, no amount of stats will make things "hard" in Warframe.

They need to severely weaken us in some way to have real difficulty; no amount of stats or AI on enemies will change this.

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9 minutes ago, Reelix said:

+100 is WAY too low - That's like Sortie / Arb level.

People looking for a Hard Mode want around +1,000 - To start. Zens videos for example show builds and strategies to clear level 10,000 enemies. Calling something "Hard" and setting the level to 1/100th that is... Somewhat of an insult to the player base.

IMO, you are way overestimating the percentage of the playerbase interested in that type of content. A substantial portion of the playerbase struggles with sorties,arbitrations, and liches as it is. More importantly, DE is better served by starting low. They can add other tiers later.

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17 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Cosmetics are nice but MR will push min maxers through it. Also, lore wise, Teshin is about pushing the Tenno to their limits to improve their combat readiness so it makes sense.See also Conclave which provides next to no standard progression but has a lot of fancy cosmetic trophy items tied to it.

You get mastery rank for the current nodes, its pretty piddly to be frank. Teshin is about having us do things that are to push us in being better warriors, how is doing this anything related to that? Conclave provides progression albeit weak and non-productive within its own context despite being malus mods. Honestly, I had just hoped more from his characterization since War Within. I do agree that the min-maxers will push through it, as will folk like myself that just play more, but I see no reason for this to be its own thing, when Arbitration is right there and cosmetics could be acquired from their Vitus shop if it doesn't offer some actual method for betterment.

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5 minutes ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

sponges are part of challenge like I reasoned before,without HP they pose no threat no matter  how smart they are.

Yes, but just being sponges doesnt add any challenge, it adds tedium. WF needs other things, more units similar to arbi drones etc. that halt our mindless AoE killing along with targeted nerfs to the outlier AoE frames. Scaling between enemy hp and enemy damage should also be seperated so we get rid of the old bullet hell while giving DE the option to better tweak the TTL of mobs. Increased TTL innately adds to increased damage since large group encounters result in mobs living longer thus outputting more damage, making them a bigger threat over time.

The old scaling is trash and not a solution for more challenging content.

edit: Another thing they can do to scale content is making mobs more and more restistant to status effects, much like how it works with bosses. So at higher levels mobs might only be open to 1 stack of certain effects. DE has alot of options they can juggle with that can be pinpoint focused to specific content of the game without having to make game sweeping changes that effect everything.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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Unclear what this means:

Quote

 - tiered. We are providing one 100+ level pass to be cognizant of matchmaking for our first iteration. 

I guess my main questions is: Can a player taxi a friend(s) to Hard Mode Mission if they don't have every node completed? Or will they be locked out in an arbitration situation? I am personally worried that some clan-members or friends cannot join me on Hard Mode runs if they don't have the starchart completely mastered.

 

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3 hours ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

Even starting at level 9999 would not be sufficient,a level 9999 Ancient has laughable 440k HP after the (in my opinion worst update) aka the scaling change. This will not be hard mode it will not pose any threat to us not even a test,i cant spawn an enemy in my Simulacrum (level 170) that withstands attacks from a serious melee with a serious build longer than 2 or 3 seconds. Please enable the OLD scaling in this mode to make it truly a HARD mode

pump the breaks compadre

hold on

You have to understand that most players, even pre lvl 5 lich missions, need help so that the missions don't drag on, you can see this because they will look or host murmur farm, if they don't host and simply jump into a mission, it's likely they may end up alone, there are players that want the gamemode similar to arbitration, sorties and lich missions, but they can't handle them

The game obviously punishes you from doing, missions will take more time, you use more time in recruit chat, you get less, you farm less and the grind increases, a snowball effect

You can see this because they are unable to kill, don't understand objectives or worse, made no improvements into making garantees that the mission succeed.

Your kill count isn't amazing and there can be several reasons for that, maybe the teams are constantly to competitive, maybe you chosen not to kill, maybe you support others, maybe there is difficulty in killing them *wink wink*

Regardless, you put effort in completing missions right? at 75% completion rate and an insane 20% quit rate i find that maybe you are asking something way above the competence of the general playerbase, including you.

Remember, the game has been becoming easier, you can self revive, parkour improved, operator mode exists, others can revive you in arbitrations, riven mods exist, warframes are hardly 1 trick pony and often do several things, so you're not suffering the consequences of the old warframe game, you quit 1 in 5 missions and you're far from the minimally acceptable 85% completion, so telling that you need harder content to players who do better is a tad strange.

My sugestion is simple, get consistant good results 1st, with randoms, with clanmates, in solo, with different missions, make sure that any combination that the game trows at you isn't to hard.

Edited by KIREEK
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