No Extra Life - To make "Hard Mode" truly Hard, adding real risk of failure

[Bakaguya-sama]

When's the last time anyone ever failed a normal mission due to dying, as in losing all their lives?  

Everyone get 3 lives to begin with. Arcanes can bring that up to 5. And reviving  is also risk free thanks to spolier mode.  It's like... virtually impossible to lose all of them in normal circumstances.  

Beyond simply making mobs higher level, there's an opportunity here to revise the Revive mechanic, to add actual challenge to gameplay and having a real risk of mission failure. And I don't mean making it instant failure if someone die, but... let's make dying a bit more punishing.   

Of course, Arbi's revive mechanic is rather clumsy, and doesn't work for non-endurance mission types.

So simple suggestions for "The Iron Path":  

1. No self-revive. No extra lives. Revive is done exclusively by allies.

2. Cannot revive allies in spoiler form Void mode. No invulnerability while reviving.  

3 (Optional) Each arcane increase revive timer by 10 seconds.  

There. I think this should be a happy medium for everyone.  

[Chewarette]

They've removed it for Arbis, they won't put it back here. Plus, this doesn't give credits to skilled people, it just incentivize people to just use the immortal warframes and never risk playing a squishy Warframe. That's not the good way to go here.

[KenthNisshoku]

I can imagine squad members in hard mode fissures leaving the squad when they die and squad members not reviving each other to avoid risking themselves... (not gonna revive someone in an ospreys or napalms aoe)

And your suggestions just make hard mode a hassle to play and limit the warframe options... (an entire squad of wukongs inaros' rhinos or any kind of tanky frame)

 

[BlackCat500]

They already said in the main article that it wasn't going to be an endgame. That's still something they're trying to figure out how to implement I'm sure.

[HoustonDragon]

The Arbitrations style revive is a nice challenge, since there's higher risk for teammates carrying the items to be able to res. There are too many quirks in an online MMO, particularly with latency issues, that can lead to getting squished.

[Liam]

They wont put back something they removed from arbitrations into this. So good luck. 

[Rawbeard]

it's a video game, there is no real risk of failure.

also being punishing is not the same as being difficult, so... I don't know, git gud or something

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

I mean, a quick glance at the Steel Path announcement thread would have instantly voided the reason for this thread to exist...

This is the reason why Rebb felt the need to also include "what it isn't".

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Yes, bring back Sanctuary and Shelter mods era back. Make CC Frames and Recruiting more relevant and decrease amount of AFK players. 

[GKP_light]

"No self-revive."

no. i want the hard mod to be hard, not punitive. i don't like the arbitration for this.

 

And to make the hard mod hard, it need to have some deffense nerf in this mode :

-reduce the maximal adaptation to 60% damage reduction (insted of 90% in normal mode)

-cap the healing to 300HP + 15% of the maximum HP of the warframe per 2 secondes. cap the shield generation to 300 shield + 15% of the maximum shield of the warframe per 2 secondes. (it is because with some mods, like Life Strike or Capacitance, we can be invincible)

(and multiply the HP and Shield of the ennemis by 2.5)

Edited June 26, 2020 by GKP_light

[Thrymm]

No thank you.

Please, no artificial or modifiers at all, just plain old pure increased difficulty level.  Which appears to be exactly what's being considered.

Modifiers and cheap cop out mechanics are the bane of this games existence.  If a greater difficulty can't be accomplished within the base game mechanics, then change the base game mechanics until it can.

[(XBOX)DA ZACHYZACHY]

I just want increased level, and new enemies. I know the second one isn’t coming, but there’s always room down the line for hard mode to have some unique enemies and rewards.

[TheNeonGod]

Companions should still have a down time or have a timer when they are going get revived. Also those extra revives feels like cheating, making it not harder at all but more frustrating instead. I mean lot of people practiced how to survive and adapt to any situation or even used tank frames to defy death, especially with shield-gating.  

Edited June 26, 2020 by TheNeonGod

[Aldain]

How to make Hard Mode "Just play Inaros LUL" in one easy step.

[Voltage]

The game has gotten so watered down and dumbed down that this idea wouldn't work. As a few people have said, this will just be "play Inaros" mode if you gave dying some consequences.

[(XBOX)DA ZACHYZACHY]

5 hours ago, (XB1)DOMPATRIOT said:

Lol, every frame is inmortal

Not really. Shield gating only helped frames with shield regeneration abilities. It’s still easy to be killed with most frames.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Tanky Frames, Inaros, lol. Love to enter Excavation Arby with 2x Inaros and Rhino, while they are alive min 1 Excavator is already destroyed.

[kevoisvevo]

all i see around me are invisible faces

nuking places, tanky faces

same and old for the daily arbritrations 

going nowhere, going nowhere

 

[kgabor]

38 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

all i see around me are invisible faces

nuking places, tanky faces

same and old for the daily arbritrations 

going nowhere, going nowhere

 

I find this kinda funny and kinda sad.

It's a meta world.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

I love Dark/Demon's Souls but this is not that kind of game. Fear of dying just limits the choice of frames to the tankiest ones.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Again, just to be clear, this is what DE said: 

On 2020-06-25 at 6:01 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

What it isn’t:
❌ - intended to be associated with the nebulous ‘end game’ topic.
❌ - overly complicated in its goal to simply provide higher level content and some exclusive rewards.
❌ - tiered. We are providing one 100+ level pass to be cognizant of matchmaking for our first iteration. 

Do not try to make Hard Mode something it isn't.

Maybe later, if Hard Mode ends up not being any kind of 'hard' then what this may do is actually convince DE to figure out how to make Warframe actually have Difficulty without nerfing the players.

[Drachnyn]

At some point peopke should understand that not every annoying restriction makes enjoyable difficulty.

Currently on the test cluster have the armor or shield enhancements from sorties (depending on faction) and double health. So enemies are far tankier than their level indicates.

Realisically people only cry about the removal of the really annoying mechanics or bullet sponges because it gated out other people. If the modifiers stay then a lot of people will notice that their builds are not enough for steel path. 

Steel path is gear check, this time going above what the levels indicate makes sense though.

[Tenno_Cobra]

I think they should revisit nightmare mode and give it a steel path variation, with only one life available. That way people can opt in if they want the added challenge.

And i'm fine with Steel Path being hard and requiring optimised build. Finally there might be a reason to pursue multi forma builds and rivens... So sick of being essentially immortal and oneshotting eveyone in the starchart.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Tenno_Cobra

[Urlan]

We have arbitration. I think some folk implied Arbitration would be available in the toggled starchart, you could run that and have the desired trait.

[hippokrene]

On 2020-06-26 at 6:32 AM, Bakaguya-sama said:

When's the last time anyone ever failed a normal mission due to dying, as in losing all their lives? 

All the damn time. And the best part is that losing a mission means losing all your rewards as well. It's such an awesome feeling to pour a ton of time and effort into something, only to get nothing in return.