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Jarriaga

What we know of hard mode

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13 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I am sadly not in the test cluster. I am basing my opinion from watching streams for those who are. Kuva missions are not bugged. The enemies scale normally with +100, but they award the same amount of Kuva as in normal mode. 

I haven't seen bugs during Streams that are not also present in normal mode, only some placeholder labels.

I think It will be ready to ship next week.

This mode is more or less is just tweaking the numbers. I don't see this is a huge work on the dev side.

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5 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

This mode is more or less is just tweaking the numbers. I don't see this is a huge work on the dev side.

To be fair, it's exactly what they announced they would do back on May 8th. This is why I'm mostly happy, as I had rather low expectations to begin with.

My only problem with it is Kuva scaling. It's a raw deal vs. normal mode.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

You do realize that hard mode has Kuva Siphons and Floods, don't you?

I did not, no! Cool! Looking forward to kuva flood on hard mode then 🙂

You may want to toggle back, but I won't 😛 

Edited by Angwah

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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Those things go hand in hand in every single loot-based game I've ever played. They give you reasons to move on to hard mode and never look back. Here, the most arguably important resource in the entire game (Kuva) punishes you for attempting to even farm it (Kuva Disruption starting at level 140 with 2x armor and health modifier while awarding 350 Kuva per C rotation).

That is a problem that will make people choose and compare rather than migrate. 

Good thing to me, since that means it's not forced and make you never look back at normal mission. I can visit hard mode if I want to see if my build can wreck level 140 with 2x armor/shield/health as fast as I kill level 40 and back to normal mode to relax

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7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So why did they add resource chance, mod chance boosters and mastery then? It will be a more efficient place (possibly) for basic materials. The whole "testing your build" thing is kind of a dead reason right now since DE has proven that wasnt the intent by adding those rewards or reward increasing things.

Now we need to get DE to understand their own game and the flaws with the planned boosters.

Another thing. If it was because of "without spending hours to reach that level", then why is it applied to the whole chart and not just endless?

Because I'm sure there are people outside this forum that keep asking to get more resources because "harder means more drops" and DE made it as compensation when they don't even have any use to that resources.

I'm sure once this mode is released I'll see complaints about leechers and people who expect to get carried through and complain when their public game leave early

And why the whole chart? Because not everyone want to fight higher level through endless missions

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7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Kuva is the most important resource in the entire game and hard mode is mandatory for progression.

And this is why I see people who chase kuva like I see a drug addict. You just can't get enough and keep wanting more to the point I'm sure you would even do a real life crime if that means a passive 5k kuva/second in your account to roll riven mods

And what makes it mandatory when it's just higher number?

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So on the one hand we have people complaining there are insufficient rewards for hard mode, and on the other hand we have people complaining rewards will make hard mode (in their words) non-optional.

Usually you might expect this is a difference in opinion between two different groups of people, but in this thread they are the same people!

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Posted (edited)
vor 4 Stunden schrieb (PS4)DoctorWho_90250:

If you despise how affinity is handled then play solo. 

I mostly do. That doesn't change that the issue still exists. Thank you for you absolutely meaningless, empty and dumb response that you didn't think about a second before typing it out and posting it. I'll never get back the clicks and seconds i wasted to read it. Never.

Edited by (PS4)Deeceem
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6 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

That would make WF the only loot-based game ever that tells you "Go back to normal; it's better". You don't seem to have an issue with all other resources getting boosted in hard mode. Why do you hate it so much as to single it out?

Hey, warframe itself is probably the only game that isn't in the mold of any game. OP power to break the universe to dust, no rarity/star/rating based gear, super fast movement instead of slow, asthmatic character running through the place, etc

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, 844448 said:

And what makes it mandatory when it's just higher number?

27,501 mastery lost if you don't complete it. Good on you if you don't see mastery as required. Me and many others see anything with mastery as mandatory for completion. Same as intrinsics. Same as MR fodder weapons. 

Edited by Jarriaga

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Hey, warframe itself is probably the only game that isn't in the mold of any game. OP power to break the universe to dust, no rarity/star/rating based gear, super fast movement instead of slow, asthmatic character running through the place, etc

Oh, I see. Obtuse uniqueness for the sake of obtuse uniqueness with obtuse uniqueness winning over practicality, function and/or consistency. 

Wonderful. May obtuse uniqueness continue to guide any and all decisions tied to anything you may find interest in.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Posted (edited)

Suggestion: after another 4 hours of reading forum here and there, why not DE gives exclusive reward in steel path ? And in steel path there will be a new reward system that can influence the original gameplay? 

Explanation: To be honest, even though increase resources or not, it still won't attract players to play it for challenge. New system needs to be implemented 

Example:

 

A, Reward in new modding system.

  • Each time completing endless mission in steel path , there will be a 50% chance to obtain new mod.
    Blank mod which can combine 2/3 warframe mods stats into 1.
  • Only one blank mod can be equip on one Warframe.
  • Each mod are limited for 3 stats given from each faction.
  • Negative blank stat enhancer is an item that can alter the stat of desired mod into negative of the original mod stat.
  • Stat that had been reduced by negative stat enhancer will boost the positive(s).
  • Each blank mod cannot have more than 1 negative stat enhancer.
  • Each mod can be rank up at the cost of endo. 

Each mod stat can only be added through new system from each faction: 

  1. Grineer : Armor / Health 
  2. Corpus : Shield / Duration
  3. Infested : Sprint speed / Range
  4. Corrupted : Energy / Strength 
  5. Sentient : Ability Efficiency  / negative blank stat enhancer

 

It works like the pigments in Tenno lab but no waiting time.
The stat grinding only happens in steel path.
Stat only open up for farming one at a time.

 

Maths things:

In steel path,
Positive stats in one blank mod capped at 99%. (1positive- 99%, 2positives- 50%for each stat, 3positives - 35%for each stat)
Negative stat capped at -50% at all time.   
Regardless the original mod is at 51% or above. Reduced amount will be added into positives evenly. 

In other game modes or normal mode.
The effect will be reduced by 25%. Meaning the stat will be less powerful in normal mode.  

Predicted backlash:

  • Another island content which will not be touched once finished and getting all the good items. 
  • Too grinding as it is hard mode as expected rare drop rate will be lower as in increase in challenges
  • Might not be as logical as it might break the game engine and the core of Warframe. 
  • Flaws in this given idea

That's it for now.

Just a humble Tenno's idea that passing by in forum....

Edited by Aoennor
Brain malfunction
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35 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Oh, I see. Obtuse uniqueness for the sake of obtuse uniqueness with obtuse uniqueness winning over practicality, function and/or consistency. 

Wonderful. May obtuse uniqueness continue to guide any and all decisions tied to anything you may find interest in

Wow

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1 minute ago, Aoennor said:

Wow

For context, he's trying to justify WF's hard mode being worse than normal mode for Kuva (Thus being the only loot-based game I know that actively rewards you more for playing normal mode over hard mode) by throwing around the "WF is just unique" argument.

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4 hours ago, Aadi880 said:

To be fair, you can't expect "progression" to not get increasingly difficult. Doesn't make sense otherwise. As a casual player myself, this seems completely fine.

And those players who are extremely casual don't need mastery points after 16 anyway, really.


There's a difference between progression and difficulty modes.

  • Progression: playing through the game using certain general rules.
  • Difficulty mode: the general rules of the game.

As a casual, I don't want the general rules to change. In hard mode, they change radically. I play Warframe because I like the rules it has.
 

I'm not extremely casual. I'm MR 28. I haven't had to engage in "hardcore" content to get there and I don't want to. Hard mode MR points changes that. Instead of an optional difficulty mode, it becomes content I'm expected to play through. Just like @Jarriaga said.

Within the general ruleset, I should be just as eligible for progression as a person using a different ruleset. With hardmode, I'm not.

I don't like Warframe becoming more of an elitist game.

200.gif

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

throwing around the "WF is just unique" argument.

Well, kinf of out of topic, go back to hard mode stuff. 
Prefer a topic that gives real ideas and discussions. 

Edited by Aoennor

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

I mostly do. That doesn't change that the issue still exists. Thank you for you absolutely meaningless, empty and dumb response that you didn't think about a second before typing it out and posting it. I'll never get back the clicks and seconds i wasted to read it. Never.

Meaningless that you would complain about something that has such a simple solution. Well done. 

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after a few discussions with teammates :

  • "+100lvl" without fissure / kuva liches will be more like a "do once" activity, perhaps appart from fast runs attemps on boss and XP in Saturn\helen (better than hydron with +100 lvl, because of the orokin cells with drop increased)
  • +250lvl with NPCs spawn starting like a "10+ waves / 10min of normal play" (Nox, Eximus, etc) would have been more interesting. At +100lvl it's only a bit harder than sorties, at 250+ you can be 1HKO even with some HP boost, which make casual tanks less effective.
  • about rewards, all endo / credits should have been set to an equivalent of T4, even earth ...
  • no boost of Kuva rewards is also a reason to not play this mode regularly
Citation

Enemies seem to use the 2x armor and shield enhancement sortie modifiers together

perhaps if the "increased armor / increased shield" is true, it can be something to be tested more closely, I wonder if infested have a mutator too

 

 

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4 hours ago, Enialyx said:

Hard mode MR points changes that. Instead of an optional difficulty mode, it becomes content I'm expected to play through.

Now I get why I saw so many MR28 in railjack. TBH I directly helped to farm intrinsics (because I didn't have anything better to do), but not all of them confessed that they play railjack only for mastery points.

If this is the only holdup for hard mode, can they just remove mastery points from hard mode? Would anyone be against this?

I don't know why they even added mastery to hard mode, perhaps they wanted to be nice guys and give players something as a reward, but apparently they can't give rewards because this makes stuff non optional, and they can't not give rewards because no one will play it. We also can not have nice things.

Maybe the optimal approach would be to leave the game as is and won't do anything, but someone is going to complain about something else. They should have made just a button somewhere in UI and list this in changelog without hyping it too much.

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So much drama... Even if this is 'optional' content people  probably still play if there's increased mastery/focus/endo (not everybody grinds hardcore or for peak efficiency). 

 

As to whining about "I don't want to play hard mode and mastery points make me"... Tough! The game has lots of this. I don't wanna kdrive but I will. DE don't need every player to like this or enjoy it, just some of them. This is about the MR20+ enjoying themselves, not about MR8s and still, it's not enough for those who can go lvl 150+ with ease. 

That said I don't see that the star chart will be any less lonely. I think a Teshin randomizer challenge might make sense where you join a public queue or go with a squad and he picks a new hard mode mission. This isn't instead of what they've just done, but in addition. 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

27,501 mastery lost if you don't complete it. Good on you if you don't see mastery as required. Me and many others see anything with mastery as mandatory for completion. Same as intrinsics. Same as MR fodder weapons. 

I'll agree it's mandatory if, and only if, DE stops making new weapons and warframes the moment non-founders can reach MR30, and we've got plenty left to prime (or hell, Umbra.)  Still waiting on them Corpus and infested(?) "liches" and railjack missions too.

Edited by Lost_Cartographer

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Posted (edited)

I... would like to see more clarification on the "Enemies seem to use the 2x armor and shield enhancement sortie modifiers together" thing. In part because I don't think 2x is what the special modifiers for those sorties even DO to begin with; they seem drastically higher than that. The best guess I've seen of someone trying to find out the real modifiers in spite of DE's absolute adamant refusal to be transparent about sortie conditions, lists those bonuses as +300% or 4x. And claims they also had reduced chances of magnetic and corrosive procs. And then the wiki claims that enhanced armor condition ALSO nerfs the effect of corrosive projection. (completely off topic, but only maybe: Shield ospreys in sorties give every enemy they're linked to a flat bonus to elemental resistances. And can stack with multiple of them. Will that also turn out to be present?)

I don't have any issue with enemies in this mode being tougher than just the +100 levels, since the massive enemy scaling nerfs (while still probably for the best) made that kind of a joke. But I do hope that if they have additional enhancements, DE will actually say exactly what they are, instead of just letting players guess "Uhhh it's probably like the sortie conditions. the ones that DE has refused to ever explain the real numbers or exact functions of." But I'm not super optimistic, looking at some of the things DE refuses to explain the real functions of, like Lephantis DR. or now the Treasurer which also seems to have a convoluted DR system meant to screw over some weapons and be a joke against others, without any acknowledgement of it being a thing.

Edited by OvisCaedo
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Can we add "Hard mode is hard" so we can have nerfs for it?

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Posted (edited)

Getting mastery from completing non-trivial missions is FAR better than having to re-forma and re-level kuva weapons gazzilion times (someone do the math how much it costs in formas alone) or the insufferable borefest that is intrinsic grind. Oh yeah and Kdrive - I forgot those were in game lmao.

That is if you care about max mastery at all, which is fairly pointless, once you are done with openworlds and their MR-tied daily caps (which is BTW terrible limitation that really hurts newer players)

Edited by Monolake

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11 hours ago, 844448 said:

Because I'm sure there are people outside this forum that keep asking to get more resources because "harder means more drops" and DE made it as compensation when they don't even have any use to that resources.

I'm sure once this mode is released I'll see complaints about leechers and people who expect to get carried through and complain when their public game leave early

And why the whole chart? Because not everyone want to fight higher level through endless missions

You mean "people outside the clique that just wants it as a "challenge""? It is a very very small portion of the playerbase that will use this mode just for the "challenge" of it.

I'm deffinently going to leave early, since I'll only use it to level stuff after the mastery is obtained from it. So if that means it will take me 5 instead of 10 boosted wave I'll be out after wave 5.

So then it isnt just about the shortcut that several of you claimed. Since it isnt a shortcut if you cant reach the same point manually in the first place. Which is the reason why the whole "it's a shortcut!" argument fails.

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