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DNexus

Shawzin & Mandachord improvement

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Hi i'm Youtuber DNexus, i make a lot of mandachord and shawzin songs and today i wanna talk about them, some suggestions for the future that will enhance experience a lot.

SHAWZIN
1. make shawzin public in small area around user in Dojo and Public relay/cetus/fortuna
2. add new function for Whammy, in most conditions we never actually use it, this new function will down half tone immediately. so in a single scale we got play more tones without sounding weird.
3. decrease default shawzin "shamisen" echco and increase Nelumbo shawzin's volume a bit.
4. Universal shawzin codes, not only for PC, also for consoles and switch.
5. add keys functions for each scales (C D F E Ab G ...), current shawzin running all in C key, so this function allow us to choose which key in this scale, solve the tones range problem!!
6. add slots to save songs like mandachord.
7. Metronome can select different tempos (current is same as mandachord 120 bpm)

What i don't agree from community's suggestions:
add more strings, add more tones (no you don't lol, current shawzin already has difficulty to play, that won't help at all) i gave solution in suggest 5.


MANDACHORD
1. Remove mandachord duration with seconds, instead runs with cycles/repeatings in a certain duration% range, like repeat 2 times, 4 times, 8 times...kinda like Nova's slowness % with her duration build, so Octavia's abilities will no longer runs with Seconds (but in abilities UI it still count seconds for easier observing), but Cycles instead
2. give a small range for mandachord to adjust Tempo (BPM), current 120bpm will be default mandachord, can make a range (popular using) to adjust tempo for example we can adjust it between 80-150bpm. ( seems this will conflict the 1. change but it's fair, because for slower song you get buff harder and mandachord runs longer, for faster song you get buff easier and mdanchord runs shorter)
3. MORE INSTRUMENTS ( @Buff00n had post about which types of instruments to add)
4. add 2 more tones in Melody at least (which i believe already been mentioned a lot times from community), just 2, you don't need more tones for most songs to cover, mandachord isn't professional DAW lol

What i don't agree from community's suggestions:
1. Longer mandachord / more zones in mandachord ( 4 zone is the way, stay with it, also trying to run a whole song in single mandachord is not practical at all. solution check suggestion 1. )
2. allow us switch songs in mission ( first, the game system won't allow it since mandachord is bond with arsenal. 2nd, it's unnecessary to run whole songs, in mission you probably never gonna finish it in most condition. 3rd, we OctaviaBand definitely against this idea xD )
3. Ability buff (crouch) with 1st ability (mallet/percussion) instead of melody ( in mission if it's not defense you won't even cast 1st ability, so i don't agree this idea, stay with melody 3rd ability for buffs, it's still the best for easier crouch) 

summary:
MusicFrame is just a small feature in warframe, don't take it like big content, so game experiences comes first, mandachord is a very successful feature for gameplay, it's simple and allow all people able to make music with it, make it too complicated is not what it suppose to be. there might be more good ideas, right now i just drop those according to my experiences and i think they will help a lot to improve user experience without effecting game balance.
Shawzin however is a totally music feature, same method, can't make it too complicated for people to play, it's already relative pro than mandachord, 

Thank you for your time, love you sound team ❤️ peace!  

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Great suggestions, thanks for making this thread!

I would add a Shawzin wish list item for one Shawzin in particular:

8. The Nelumbo is currently flat by about 25 cents.  It's obvious enough when played with other Shawzins or the Mandachord that I've been explicitly re-tuning the Nelumbo audio in my videos.

 

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

1. make shawzin public in small area around user in Dojo and Public relay/cetus/fortuna

It's actually a surprise to me that you can't hear other Shawzins in the relay-like areas, but I guess it makes sense.  Those areas operate with extremely stripped-down network traffic to allow 50 players to be in there at once.  Mandachords are an exception because they aren't real time; you just need to download about 100 bytes of song data.

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

2. add new function for Whammy, in most conditions we never actually use it

Until it's part of the song that you can record and play back, I don't see the whammy bar as anything other than a live-performance flavor enhancer on long notes, which is pretty much how real whammy bars are used.

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

3. decrease default shawzin "shamisen" echco

This is why I've been running the game with echoes turned off since last year.  The built-in long decay with the default Shawzin and Nelumbo sounds is bad enough with sound bleed. 

Maybe the default Shawzin and Nelumbo could be more like the Corbu and Tiamat, where each note cuts off the one before it so that only one note plays at a time?  Unfortunately that would pretty much kill the Shawzin MIDI-bot scene.

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

5. add keys functions for each scales (C D F E Ab G ...), current shawzin running all in C key, so this function allow us to choose which key in this scale, solve the tones range problem!!

Honestly, scales are only something hardcore music nerds like us are going to care about, let alone what key the scale is in.  But if they want to introduce the Shawzin equivalent of a capo then shut up and take my Plat.

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

7. Metronome can select different tempos (current is same as mandachord 120 bpm)

I'm all for this, but there are going to be limitations.  Shawzin recordings aren't as limited as the Mandachord timing-wise, but they are still limited.  Recordings are quantized to 16 "ticks" per second, which means there are only a few tempos that will have a whole number of ticks per beat.  You also have to think about eighth notes, sixteenth notes, and even triplets, which will further restrict the tempos that come out "evenly". 

  • 120 bpm = 8 ticks per beat, meaning it's even all the way down to 32nd notes.  Related tempos like 240 bpm ad 60 bpm are also mostly fine, however, trying to do triplets at these tempos is going to sound off.
  • 160 bpm = 6 ticks per beat, meaning you can handle both 8th notes and 8th note triplets.  Trying to do sixteenth notes at 160 bpm doesn't fit evenly, and sounds off if you listen closely.
  •  96 bpm = 10 ticks per beat, which is okay down to eight notes but sounds really off when divided further than that.

Outside of than those and their divisions/multiples, your options for picking a tempo where things come out evenly drop off fast and only work with very slow songs.  

I dunno, maybe it's not important to most people just playing normally but this is the kind of stuff that bugs me a lot.

 

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

2. give a small range for mandachord to adjust Tempo (BPM), current 120bpm will be default mandachord, can make a range (popular using) to adjust tempo for example we can adjust it between 80-150bpm

I don't think anyone chafes under the fixed Mandachord tempo more than I do, but this would be a train wreck with multiple Octavias in a mission.  I totally understand why the scale and tempo are fixed on something that can play for hours inside a mission. 

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

3. MORE INSTRUMENTS ( @Buff00n had post about which types of instruments to add)

 The Mandachord instrument set concepts mentioned:

Spoiler

 

I'm most interested in Chiptune, but I Piano is easily the #1 request in my experience.

3 hours ago, -DNexus- said:

4. add 2 more tones in Melody at least

Just curious, which two notes?  Personally I've been pining for the high D for a while; it would easily double the number of songs you can do well and give Octavia an actual Octave.

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Thank you for commenting Buff00n, i'm expecting ya! it's good to see your ideas too :3

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Me being the giga-nerd for the shawzin, I have had a fever dream where I wake up and see (something along the lines of) the following in the patch notes for Warframe:

"Shawzin players are now able to enter Performance Mode when they have their shawzin equipped! Performance Mode removes the scale function, and instead allows shawzin players to play each individual key based on what (customizable) keybindings they have set. This means you no longer need to change scales if you want to play a D#min11, you only need to press what keybindings you have set to play each individual note of the chord. In D#min11's case, D#4, F#4, A#4, C#5, F5 and G#5.

It's time to turn the shawzin instrument into a one-man orchestra!"

That was a great dream... and so are these suggestions.

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What about a menu where you can search the song you want to play? just like guitar hero lol.

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