Lunaro Rework Suggestions

[PookieNumnums]

ok, first ill start with this:

we all know that dedicated servers would be great. so lets avoid that aspect of pvp dislike or w/e.

secondly, 

ill refrain from linking my original concepts for what eventually became lunaro since those threads are years upon years upon years old.

instead, based on my experience with lunaro and the game in general i will offer these ideas as options that could in my opinion make lunaro something quite enjoyable. not every suggestion in this thread is going to be something that would make it into a rework if other ideas were included. example: if two things contradict, theyre intended as either/or but not both.

 

When Lunaro was released I was very excited for some noncombat pvp. I had concepted tennododgeballquiddich a few times and bugged steve on twitter for it or something like it. When I saw the Lunaro teaser boy was I HYPE! More hype than i think ive been for anything up to that point, the only thing rivaling that excitement since was probably the Tennocon Railjack reveal. 

 

In the video you can see that the operators are chilling with their warframes. On their left shoulders are a little flag, that i assumed would imply which team they were on (obviously all on the same team here).

I was a bit disappointed when the operators were not involved with Lunaro, quite so to be honest. I really wanted Lunaro to become big. And in all honesty, I thought it would. Just look at how well rocketleague has done over the years. Anyhow, with that little intro out of the way; on to the rework suggestions.

 

Movement

1: Increase the parkour velocity of warframes.

2: Remove shoulder checking, slapping balls out of players hands, and press right click to vacuum arcata.

3: Give dash/roll a cool down

4: Give us the option to play in warframe vs, or operator vs (perfect opportunity to improve operator movement)(chair fatigue should have worn off by now, can we run plz? kthnx)

 

Gameplay

1: Instead of 1 lunaro and 6 players fighting over it, Give each team 1 Lunaro per player (about half the size or so) (ball spawning totem)

2: with shoulder check and ball slapping removed, Charged shots would be 'hold throw to charge' and knockdowns would go from 'dash into ball and hit player' to 'peg player with a charged throw'

3: with hold to vacuum removed, a catch button / animation would take its place. press to catch at the right moment. catching a charged throw would maintain charge, ball would become their team color, and they would drop their first ball which would teleport back to their spawning totem

4: Passing a charged throw to a team member can add 1 point to a scored goal. The tradeoff is, if the pass isnt caught properly the receiving player takes a substantial knockdown / respawn timer penalty of 3 to 5 seconds. 

5: If an opposing team member is pegged with a charged throw, that player takes a 3 to 5 second respawn penalty. 

 

Arenas

1: Arenas should be multi level, facilitating the use of parkour. This would be a great opportunity to reintroduce wall running. (no, i dont want to remove bullet jump. or wall cling. just change the current wall-whatever it is (hop?bounce?tra-la-la?) to a run animation that doesnt require you to look at less than a 45degree angle in order to avoid jumping off said wall. 

     - i.e. you hold space to stay on wall and can look any direction you want. letting go of space (or whatever your button for jump is, [console players, i c u] )would bullet jump off into that direction.

2: Goals should not be stationary.  Goals should move back and forth, or even spin slowly.

3: Goals should not be stationary (2). A goal should change its position within the arena after every score. 

4: Goals are not team-based. Any player can score from any goal.

5: Goals should not be one size fits all: There should be 3 different goals at all times. Large, Medium, and Small, for 1, 2 and 3 points respectively. 

6: Parkour Bonuses: Scoring goals from certain points or during certain maneuvers should lend extra points to a scored goal. 

     - i.e. if you score a goal during an aimglide you would get +1 points to that goal. if you score from a wall run +2 for that goal. if you chain wall runs and score from an aimglide out of a wall run, +4. if you pass during a wall run and it is successful... you get the point, i hope.

 

 

Dojos

1: customizable lunaro courts for our dojos. cuz why not. 

 

[Nogaren]

So what do you dislike about the current version of lunaro and its core mechanics? The one thing that'll make lunaro better for me is to revert it back to pre-chimera prologue where many of the current bugs got introduced.

[PookieNumnums]

11 hours ago, Eragon said:

So what do you dislike about the current version of lunaro and its core mechanics? The one thing that'll make lunaro better for me is to revert it back to pre-chimera prologue where many of the current bugs got introduced.

The current mechanics promote ball hog style gameplay, a race to get the ball and score,  spam swatting, a race to disarm the opponent, doesnt accent parkour, and has a few techniques that are both hard to learn and use for the general player. 

Also it lacks any real variety to the game play which when you watch high skill players go at it its just a back and forth of the same basic movements and when you put one against someone with less experience knowledge and ability the gap between them is huge.

[Nogaren]

Huge skill gap is expected espescially when there's no ranking system.

Mind clarifying on which techniques you think are hard? I seen a bunch of people learn dribbling after showing and explaining to them once.

There's a lot of variety in the unstable shots you can perform (albeit some players would spam the same 2-3 shots). If you want me to link you a video or something feel free to ask. Otherwise the only points I agree with you on are the ballhog situation and e-spam.

[PookieNumnums]

7 hours ago, Eragon said:

Huge skill gap is expected espescially when there's no ranking system.

Mind clarifying on which techniques you think are hard? I seen a bunch of people learn dribbling after showing and explaining to them once.

There's a lot of variety in the unstable shots you can perform (albeit some players would spam the same 2-3 shots). If you want me to link you a video or something feel free to ask. Otherwise the only points I agree with you on are the ballhog situation and e-spam.

Someone taught me how to dribble but i dont see it as something the average joe can pick up so easily. 

Charged shots will go wherever the cursor aims so it can be controlled easily but when youre in the air or in heated exchange between opponents it can be hard to manage. 

If it was based on pegging opponents or hold to throw for charged shots it wouldn't be outside of what we already do.

If there were team based lunaro and one for each player it would present the option to score or attack giving a need for strategic decision making. Even if there was one for each side. 

Also, if there was a catch animation and not vacuum, ball contol and apprehension would be much more fluid and less wonky, where the ball comes at you but due to momentum or movement speed floats around you and to another direction. 

[-Ryuurei-]

TL:DR: Post ended up longer than expected, I don't agree with your ideas, listed some of my own. I made sure to include the why's. No offence meant.

Totally not a thread necro
So basically, you want to make something completely different, then slap the name "Lunaro" on it and just delete what we have now.

Now before I begin answering the stuff you said: I'm aware Lunaro is in a terrible state at the moment, but I'll get to that later.

On 2020-06-29 at 9:28 AM, PookieNumnums said:

The current mechanics promote ball hog style gameplay, a race to get the ball and score,  spam swatting, a race to disarm the opponent, doesnt accent parkour, and has a few techniques that are both hard to learn and use for the general player. 

Also it lacks any real variety to the game play which when you watch high skill players go at it its just a back and forth of the same basic movements and when you put one against someone with less experience knowledge and ability the gap between them is huge.

Have you ever watched a match with more than 2 skilled players? Because when everyone knows what they're doing, people start using this magical thing called the pass button. When the players are even better, they can even forgo the pass, and throw it for the other person to immediately unstable without picking it up first.
It's PvP without stats, there's supposed to be a learning curve and a skill gap. If everyone was completely equal, you could just toss a coin and call it a day.

On 2020-06-30 at 3:18 AM, PookieNumnums said:

Someone taught me how to dribble but i dont see it as something the average joe can pick up so easily. 

Charged shots will go wherever the cursor aims so it can be controlled easily but when youre in the air or in heated exchange between opponents it can be hard to manage. 

If it was based on pegging opponents or hold to throw for charged shots it wouldn't be outside of what we already do.

If there were team based lunaro and one for each player it would present the option to score or attack giving a need for strategic decision making. Even if there was one for each side. 

Also, if there was a catch animation and not vacuum, ball contol and apprehension would be much more fluid and less wonky, where the ball comes at you but due to momentum or movement speed floats around you and to another direction. 

About the average joe being unable to pick up dribbling easily...
Allow me to tell you a tale of Lunaro on release: once upon a time, lunaro was new, had players, was 4v4 (later 3v3 with bugs to become 4v2 half the time) and no special techniques had been developed yet. We moved the ball across the map by lobbing it far and high, and hoping nobody caught it. Time went by, people starting catching the high lobs, and dribbling started being developed and slowly spread. The dribbling then was very rudimentary. A few players then found interesting interactions and developed those (Caorun's straight line floating dribble comes to mind: using the ball to reset his jump close to the ground, effectively zigzagging the ball). Eventually the current dribble was made, but even then it took a while before every active player could use it decently.
What I mean is: a lot of time and effort went into figuring out how to dribble the best way. Sure, it might not be easy to pick up immediately, but at least now there's a concrete example of what to do. It's something that can be learned and practised on your own once you know the basics.

Next, the ball being hard to aim when in the air or when dealing with an opponent: it's supposed to be harder shooting from the air than shooting from neutral/the ground because it's also harder for opponents to deal with. If an opponent is trying to make things difficult for you, and they are, then that means it's working as intended. Again, shooting from the air or while being chased is something you need to learn, as in any PvP setting/sport. Skill is something you obtain, not something you are told/are given. Sincerely: the guy who invented omnidirectional unstable shooting (which again, was NOT immediately viable).

-----------

Now for the main post:

Goals moving or rotating:
Have you even played on steel meridian, perrin sequence or even arbiters maps? The hitboxes on those goals are already messy enough (there is something VERY wrong with the perrin one), now you want them to turn or move as well?
Manoeuvre score bonus:
It's actually better to release aimglide after throwing, since being on the ground quick = you can respond to anything happening quicker, be it running back to defend before the replay starts, or catching a rebound, or checking whoever caught it. Similar things apply to other manoeuvres, you could just do them while the throw is travelling, which makes no sense.
Universal goals + everyone has a ball:
You want this to give people the option to attack or defend strategically. What this will actually do is turn it into a bumrushing game to see who can score faster and more consistently. Everyone will individually rush as fast as humanly possible to get their ball through the nearest hole, with no regard for each other (kinda like warmup mode in a way, warmup mode is VERY messy and it doesn't even have points). We actually have the option to play offensively or defensively already. Source: me, I specialised in goalkeeping, I am that one retired goalkeeper.

Fun facts:
Roll already has a cooldown, you can't instantly spam it, nor does it make you invincible, it just moves you.
You can already look around while wallhopping, you just need to know how to use your movement inputs to keep going where you want to.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Now for my take on what Lunaro is, it's current state and the fixes/changes needed.

What is Lunaro?
A ball game, with 1 ball, 2 teams, 2 goals and a crapload of speed.

What's wrong with it?
Ever since the melee and projectile changes during the Chimera update, dribbling is a lot less consistent, the check range is wrong (even after they brought it back down, checks are STILL wrong), the DElay is too long (0.5s means you can phase through your own throw if you're going too fast, even as host), you can be knocked down by unstables even when reflecting them with your own check (game: "you hit the ball, so it flies away, but the ball also hit you, even though I just said it didn't"), passes can bounce off the person throwing them, completely disabling the homing functionality (this is something you can account for with position though), ball-guard STILL makes people randomly immune to the stun from checks, instead of ONLY protecting you from dropping the ball once.

Which of these issues should be fixed/take priority:
first of all: revert the entire state back to pre-Chimera, so the original check is back, and dribbling works right again.
DElay reduction would be nice, but it's acceptable as is, just annoying from time to time.
Getting knocked down by an unstable you hit should not happen, simple fix: give knockdown immunity to anyone currently using a check, so even if the ball goes through them, it won't knock them down.
FIX CHECK IMMUNITY: ball-guard SHOULD NOT give immunity to the stun portion of a check, only it's ability to dislodge the ball. As it did originally before it broke long, long ago.

Other nice things: more syndicate maps, one with goals high in the air maybe, or one with really tall or a lot of pillars, one with one goal in the middle, but only one side works for each team, and the "zones" are joined to form a circle around it, etc. These are just ideas.

Extra background info about me: played Lunaro actively since release, until they completely broke it after Chimera. I am the very first successful  goalkeeper of Lunaro, and among other things, I figured out you could aim not just up and down, but in any which direction, and then figured out how to make it work (originally with the rolling kick move of all things, before "the option" turned out to be easier, hence why it wasn't immediately viable). Oh I also won the second tournament hosted by Steampoweredcid, and placed third? I think? in the first one. I currently refuse to touch Lunaro on accounts of it not being the game I loved playing anymore, though I still vividly remember how it works, and I try to keep up with the new stuff people made up (like the check roll-cancel shenanigans).

[khazlol]

The problem as i see it.

It's a ball game slapped on top of a high speed third person shooter.

[Loxyen]

On 2020-08-25 at 1:51 PM, khazlol said:

The problem as i see it.

It's a ball game slapped on top of a high speed third person shooter.

Thats not really the problem. Despite it had other issues than now at launch, the first week was a bliss to play as an example. For me the check protection combined with lag and the weird coding on the ball interactions simply break my incentive to play now.

[khazlol]

20 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

Thats not really the problem. Despite it had other issues than now at launch, the first week was a bliss to play as an example. For me the check protection combined with lag and the weird coding on the ball interactions simply break my incentive to play now.

which are problems that come from exactly what i said.

[Loxyen]

On 2020-09-05 at 1:37 PM, khazlol said:

which are problems that come from exactly what i said.

not really since these were issues that did not occur at launch

[khazlol]

21 hours ago, Loxyen said:

not really since these were issues that did not occur at launch

again, that is why, its when they make changes to the core game all those tagged on features break.

 

[Loxyen]

a ball game slapped on top of a high speed third person shooter =/= when they make changes to the core game all those tagged on features break

It just dosen't essentially presuppose that. It simply depends on your coding... which Warframe is known for having a spaghetti one in this case.

[Xarteros]

I'm just going to carpetbomb my opinion in here and say that I'd really like a muck-about Lunaro field in Cetus and maybe the other city zones, where players can pick up balls and chuck them around. It gives players something to do while they wait for friends to join in to their squad, and it makes people see a bit of appeal in playing the proper mode

Plus, clan dojo Lunaro arenas <3 add a terminal for queuing in for a round, and suddenly big clans or the featured Dojos become hotspots of practice and play

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

I am a retired player and as much as I want to see the game fail for never giving its veterans any good content to bite into I object to this. Lunaro was beyond dead when I played with even less players then normal conclave and I could never get in a match of it to begin with, and you want them to rework something probably less then 1% of the player base plays? Even as a hater of the game since the lich update I would not want them to put any time or development resources into a husk of a game mode like lunaro or even conclave in general. Let it die and stay dead for the better of the saps who still play the game for the PvE stuff like it was always meant to be played for, leave dead dogs to lie...