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Jarriaga

Would you be OK with DE reducing Kuva costs if you could no longer trade rolled Rivens?

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Posted (edited)

Reading through test cluster posts, I saw someone posting that they are against increased Kuva in hard mode because more Kuva means indirect profit by increasing your Riven roll frequency, thus in turn increasing your chances of rolling a high-value Riven for sale. This is an argument that is 100% centered around Riven dealers taking a scattershot approach that hurts non-dealers as well.

So if the argument is "More Riven profits if Kuva is scaled or boosted", then what if DE made rolled Rivens non-tradable? That way you can't make plat out of hard mode Kuva by increasing your chances of rolling something as said roll will only be able to be used by you.

And if that sounds extreme, then what if hard mode Kuva nodes introduced a new "Refined Kuva" resource? Refined Kuva lets you roll a Riven at half the normal Kuva requirement, but if you do, you can't trade that Riven anymore. That way there is no increase in Kuva for dealers and they keep the ability to trade rolled Rivens, but they can't profit off of Hard mode Kuva as using said Kuva is an opt-in choice.

Punishing players who want to roll their own Rivens because of a Riven trading mafia is not the way to go in my opinion. 

Poll added> https://linkto.run/p/C5BKFXYQ

Edited by Jarriaga
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If Riven trading was to be canned, the whole system would need an overhaul due the whole RNG layer.

But I want to think the devteam will not balance resource gains around Riven traders, because otherwise it'd be a failure of their own design.

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1 minute ago, NightmareT12 said:

If Riven trading was to be canned, the whole system would need an overhaul due the whole RNG layer.

But I want to think the devteam will not balance resource gains around Riven traders, because otherwise it'd be a failure of their own design.

What about the "Refined Kuva" solution? It would allow for the current system to stay as it is for dealers, but it would boost the rate for those who roll for themselves.

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If rivens are made to where they can't be traded then some kind of stat locking system should be the reason.  Boosters give double kuva which in turn allows more rolls.

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Making kuva more available will reduce the feel bad factor that goes hand in hand with rolling.   That's a good thing.

It will also mean god tier rivens become cheaper as there will be more of them.  Also a good thing.

In short, more kuva good.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

It will also mean god tier rivens become cheaper as there will be more of them.  Also a good thing.

Not with what I'm proposing unless said God Riven was unveiled as a God Riven from the start without rolling. 

And Refined Kuva would prevent you from trading said Riven if you got it by rolling.

Edited by Jarriaga

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)thowed said:

If rivens are made to where they can't be traded then some kind of stat locking system should be the reason. 

I think a stat-locking mechanism would actually increase Kuva costs. When something is set and straight-forward, the up-front cost tends to be significantly higher than RNG.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)thowed said:

Boosters give double kuva which in turn allows more rolls.

Which is why some people don't want it boosted for hard mode since it would then be boosted by boosters even further. But this in turn hurts those not trading. Hence the proposed Refined Kuva solution: Opt-in to decrease your costs, but can't trade that Riven anymore.

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Posted (edited)

I don't see a good reason to reduce it,

I am not fond of Riven trading to begin with and consider it one of greatest mistakes DE made. Additionally, people often don't get just how complex entire Riven system must be, so nope, I disagree with any Kuva reduction for re-rolls or more Riven mod capacity.

Edited by CoreXCZ
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Posted (edited)

I'd buy a stat lock system that also locks you out from trading the riven the moment you lock a stat. It would likely require work to implement. Say if you have a +3 -1 riven you should be able to lock the 1-3 positives and reroll the negative, resulting in either a new negative or the removal of it (which would reduce the other 3 stat roll ranges. Same as you should be able lock the 1-3 positives on a riven that doesnt have a negative in order to get a negative to increase the 1-3 positives.

edit: I wouldnt mind if such a process would cost me more kuva in return.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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46 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Reading through test cluster posts, I saw someone posting that they are against increased Kuva in hard mode because more Kuva means indirect profit by increasing your Riven roll frequency, thus in turn increasing your chances of rolling a high-value Riven for sale. This is an argument that is 100% centered around Riven dealers taking a scattershot approach that hurts non-dealers as well.

So if the argument is "More Riven profits if Kuva is scaled or boosted", then what if DE made rolled Rivens non-tradable? That way you can't make plat out of hard mode Kuva by increasing your chances of rolling something as said roll will only be able to be used by you.

And if that sounds extreme, then what if hard mode Kuva nodes introduced a new "Refined Kuva" resource? Refined Kuva lets you roll a Riven at half the normal Kuva requirement, but if you do, you can't trade that Riven anymore. That way there is no increase in Kuva for dealers and they keep the ability to trade rolled Rivens, but they can't profit off of Hard mode Kuva as using said Kuva is an opt-in choice.

Punishing players who want to roll their own Rivens because of a Riven trading mafia is not the way to go in my opinion. 

Poll added> https://linkto.run/p/C5BKFXYQ

Hard and resounding NO

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8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'd buy a stat lock system that also locks you out from trading the riven the moment you lock a stat. It would likely require work to implement. Say if you have a +3 -1 riven you should be able to lock the 1-3 positives and reroll the negative, resulting in either a new negative or the removal of it (which would reduce the other 3 stat roll ranges. Same as you should be able lock the 1-3 positives on a riven that doesnt have a negative in order to get a negative to increase the 1-3 positives.

edit: I wouldnt mind if such a process would cost me more kuva in return.

Ain't gonna happen

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1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Ain't gonna happen

I know, it has less chance of happening than me walking across the rainbow bridge when I die, but one can always dream. 😛 

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What riven system i would like to see.

Rolling rivens

Riven roll is always 1500 kuva. You have two options: roll one stat and be locked with rolling this stat or roll whole riven.

Example.

I got two stats: "- zoom", "+ mag size". I rolled "-zoom" and got "+multishot". After that I can: save what I got, roll "+multishot" for something else, roll whole riven.

Selling rivens

You can trade riven, but you will sell riven with random stats.

Example.

I have Brama riven with cc, cd, zoom and V-polarity. I maxed it and rolled it 69 times. Player who want to buy this riven will get maxed and rolled 69 times Brama riven with V-polarity and random stats.

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Posted (edited)

Ayup, we can dream!

Rivens are a blight. A cluster#*!% of RNG madness and frustration. And as the cherry on top of this mess an unhealthy helping of toxicity and downright criminal fraud due to them being tradeable.

Alas, rivens are also currently the only end-game content left to veterans.

Also, it doesn't completely miss its stated design goal, namely making the weaker weapons strong enough to be worth using. Well, the weapons that already had some potential and so many can't even be saved even with the highest disposition possible. Oh, and you still need that one in bazillion roll to highlight whatever the potential is of that weak weapon as well as cover the weakness it possesses that makes it a high disposition weapon in the first place.

Of course, the aforementioned one in a bazillion roll will also put that lower disposition weapon back in the lead. Solidly in the lead. The gap might be less wide, more so with melee weapons than secondaries and primaries, but still very much present. Too much all in all but that is another matter entirely. 

Anyway, to the OP's question: I would be much more radical. Transmute even once and a riven becomes untradeable. Transmutes can definitely be cheaper, and let the reduction be based on the disposition, yes, on top of getting more stats to put even more focus on what this system was supposed to accomplish: to make the trash weapons competitive. Stat-locking is fine, or even better still, just investing kuva to directly increase whatever stat you wish. Hell, make it like the focus schools with a capacity and depending on the type of weapon all the different stats you can increase so you can play around with different combinations should you wish (and probably spend even more, because it would be fun and it's under your own control so you get what you actually want).

 

Edited by Angwah

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If you lower the kuve cost you lower the market prices.

So it wouldn't make sense.

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2 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

If you lower the kuve cost you lower the market prices.

So it wouldn't make sense.

that's a good thing though

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Posted (edited)

Yep. The riven market is ridiculous, I don't touch it and I don't give a crap what happens to it. I'd much rather be able to roll them for less.

However, I'd also be quite happy with just nuking rivens altogether. They're a godawful cesspit of multi-layered RNG and I despise the entire concept.

Edited by DoomFruit
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Posted (edited)

i would rather they let you lock in some rolls stats with some sort of item like the riven transmuter which then makes the riven untradable.

Edited by Talinthis
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53 minutes ago, nerfinator6 said:

that's a good thing though

It would be good for buyers but it would absolutely brake the game if they don't nerf them in exchange. 

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I don't know that I would want something like this linked into hard mode. A lot of people are going to want to trade rivens and run hard mode, I would not want to give them "useless kuva" and call it a "reward" .. nor, for that matter, exclude people who don't run hard mode from any "for personal use only" improvements in the riven system.

I am definitely all for some kind of option that flags a riven as permanent no-trade in exchange for making rerolling it for personal use only less onerous, whether that's a reduced cost or some kind of stat locking. 

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7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I think a stat-locking mechanism would actually increase Kuva costs. When something is set and straight-forward, the up-front cost tends to be significantly higher than RNG.

Which is why some people don't want it boosted for hard mode since it would then be boosted by boosters even further. But this in turn hurts those not trading. Hence the proposed Refined Kuva solution: Opt-in to decrease your costs, but can't trade that Riven anymore.

I dont see the ability to trade rivens, either way, as a "problem" that needs "fixing". 

I do see other problems with the riven system.

 

1) the insane layers of RNG to even get a *good* roll, let alone "God roll". You can roll a riven once and strike gold or roll it 100 times and have nothing to show for it. 

 

2) the dispo system. I guess it will get better now that they stopped introducing new weapons at 1 but still. The fact that even if i bend over backwards to get a decent riven for a particular weapon that time investment could be invalidated. 

 

3) because "God rolls" are meant to be the exception and not the norm the game isn't designed around that so if you DO happen to have a good roll its likely to be over powered as S#&$.

 

4) honorable mention and maybe this should be its own thread but everyone seems to know about "the riven mafia". All they really did/do is look for the best rivens they could find, buy them from ignorant players who don't know what people will actually pay for them, then turn around and flip them for huge profits. There are people who do nothing in this game but sit in trade chat looking to flip rivens and theyre able to make thousands of plat doing so because there's no in game explanation or guide to how good any given roll actually is or what it might be worth. 

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