Would you be OK with DE reducing Kuva costs if you could no longer trade rolled Rivens?

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

To make it less rng why not let us lock in stats after so many rolls.  The catch being once you lock in stats the riven is bound to you.

So after 20 rolls lock a stat in. 25 rolls after lock a second. 30 rolls after a third. 40 rolls after lock a fourth negative stat to boost the other 3.

Maybe if you wait x days the kuva costs can go down.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I dont see the ability to trade rivens, either way, as a "problem" that needs "fixing". 

I do see other problems with the riven system.

 

1) the insane layers of RNG to even get a *good* roll, let alone "God roll". You can roll a riven once and strike gold or roll it 100 times and have nothing to show for it. 

 

2) the dispo system. I guess it will get better now that they stopped introducing new weapons at 1 but still. The fact that even if i bend over backwards to get a decent riven for a particular weapon that time investment could be invalidated. 

 

3) because "God rolls" are meant to be the exception and not the norm the game isn't designed around that so if you DO happen to have a good roll its likely to be over powered as S#&$.

 

4) honorable mention and maybe this should be its own thread but everyone seems to know about "the riven mafia". All they really did/do is look for the best rivens they could find, buy them from ignorant players who don't know what people will actually pay for them, then turn around and flip them for huge profits. There are people who do nothing in this game but sit in trade chat looking to flip rivens and theyre able to make thousands of plat doing so because there's no in game explanation or guide to how good any given roll actually is or what it might be worth. 

Not to mention the SWEET profit for you and DE an-, *cough* i mean just buy the best riven mod in the game for insane price and win becaus- *ahem* i mean whatever, it's too profitable to stop anyway. Nothing will be done so no need to protect this garbage but don't worry, i don't expect you will stop.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Been wanting lock in stats but unable to trade rivens with locked in stats for a while, but do they do anything with the riven reroll economy?  Nope just still the same years later and complete garbage.  Got CC CD Damage too bad your negative is multishot.  Or it's a weapon meant for corpus with innate magnetic damage and you get -corpus.  Such an awful system I just don't care for the rivens anymore especially with nerfs as well.  Dumping hundreds of thousands of kuva into a riven that gets nerfed is pointless and a huge waste of time.  

[hippokrene]

I've never traded Riven and I have no idea what this Kuva crap is for.

So... yes, I would be okay.

[Chicken-Biryani]

Yes it can work if... They make it so that only UNROLLED rivens can be sold. 

[Ikusias]

Riven trading is an issue due to the rampant scamming that it encourages, with sellers boasting about ripping off morons and newbies by paying few plats for rivens that end resold over 1k.

no one at De ever dared to critique the situation

[Acos]

I would "nerf" Riven Trading by changing up the formula so that every Riven starts unrolled with no stats at all; You unlock the thing and figure out what item it is for & can trade it to other players if you wish. Once you pump some Kuva into it, however, it becomes bound to you. 

I'd be okay with reducing Kuva costs a bit; seems like added grind on top of your RNG that could be eased up. 

[(XBOX)Deputy Facepain]

What if there was a roll count bonus, and after a set amount of rolls, you basically get to pick your stats. Say every 30 rolls, you can pick a stat, and it’s now locked into the riven. It would still take quite a bit of work to roll a riven to what you want. but at least you could be working towards a goal, and not just rolling the dice indefinitely. 

[kgabor]

Eh, i would be fine with just adding Kuva to Hard mode as a reward/drop from enemies.

If some poor trader wants to waste hours to days to make a profit from riven rolling, let them, the market is pretty much dead anyways otherwise, so at least they can still get plats that way f2p, no one forces anyone to buy their rivens, so i'm not in for killing this market.

If anything, a riven popularity list could be added to the codex to give people who don't know about extrenal sites showing that a clue about their estimated value. (It could refer to manually updated external sites owned or rented/hired by DE, if there would be any)

Imo. small amounts of Kuva dropping from every enemy in Hard mode, affected by loot drop multipliers would give more than enough Kuva for rolling decent stat rivens just by playing and farming it passively.

[Hypernaut1]

I don't get this logic. Let's kill something that players are obviously interested in and value highly, even though it's not even needed? 

The prices of Rivens tells DE that people love Rivens. You guys that are jealous over riven prices are the minority. Clearly. 

 

[Acos]

36 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't get this logic. Let's kill something that players are obviously interested in and value highly, even though it's not even needed? 

The prices of Rivens tells DE that people love Rivens. You guys that are jealous over riven prices are the minority. Clearly. 

 

The argument for reducing the Riven trade goes as such: Does DE have a moral obligation to prevent players from spending hours upon hours farming their game for "god-tier" Riven to then sell to another player for 1,000+ Platinum (which is a rough equivalent of about $50.00, although not really given the frequency of Platinum discounts), which could be argued as a form of pay to win? Is it okay for DE to profit off the situation they created, and is it fair to the "free to play" players to be at a unique disadvantage unless they shell out $50.00 or spend as much time playing RNG lottery? 

This thread assumes that it isn't okay to expect players to play Riven Lottery RNG or otherwise shell out 50 to 100 USD for an in-game advantage, and attempts to find solutions to an apparent problem. 

Elaborate on your perceived minority; It has not been my experience that players enjoy spending 1000's of platinum on the Rivens & I'm curious as to why you think they do? Rivens are priced the way they are due to their rarity, not because people just really like spending platinum on things. 

[TheKazz91]

I would be ok with them increasing kuva costs if they gave us some way to lock in the stats we wanted when we rolled them rather than it being an endless crap shoot.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Acos said:

The argument for reducing the Riven trade goes as such: Does DE have a moral obligation to prevent players from spending hours upon hours farming their game for "god-tier" Riven to then sell to another player for 1,000+ Platinum (which is a rough equivalent of about $50.00, although not really given the frequency of Platinum discounts), which could be argued as a form of pay to win? Is it okay for DE to profit off the situation they created, and is it fair to the "free to play" players to be at a unique disadvantage unless they shell out $50.00 or spend as much time playing RNG lottery? 

This thread assumes that it isn't okay to expect players to play Riven Lottery RNG or otherwise shell out 50 to 100 USD for an in-game advantage, and attempts to find solutions to an apparent problem. 

Elaborate on your perceived minority; It has not been my experience that players enjoy spending 1000's of platinum on the Rivens & I'm curious as to why you think they do? Rivens are priced the way they are due to their rarity, not because people just really like spending platinum on things. 

No one forces a player to spend 1000p on a riven. Not the content, DE or difficulty. So yeah, I assume that anyone that spends 1000p on a riven is doing it mainly out of luxury. It does not need to be regulated. 

Not only that, those Rivens that go for 1000p are for weapons that are already powerful with just a few forma, so even less reason to need a riven at that price. Expensive Rivens are pure luxury. 

So the argument is..."I hate seeing people trade for lots of plat. DE, kill the market and make it easier for me to get God roll Rivens or get rid of the system entirely because I can't get what I want" 

Those who are complaining are in the minority because clearly, Rivens are one of the most popular items in this game. The devs even talked about the metrics showing that. 

I hear more complaints about trade envy than anything. Often disguised as critiques on the system. 

[Acos]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No one forces a player to spend 1000p on a riven. Not the content, DE or difficulty. So yeah, I assume that anyone that spends 1000p on a riven is doing it mainly out of luxury. It does not need to be regulated. 

Not only that, those Rivens that go for 1000p are for weapons that are already powerful with just a few forma, so even less reason to need a riven at that price. Expensive Rivens are pure luxury. 

So the argument is..."I hate seeing people trade for lots of plat. DE, kill the market and make it easier for me to get God roll Rivens or get rid of the system entirely because I can't get what I want" 

Those who are complaining are in the minority because clearly, Rivens are one of the most popular items in this game. The devs even talked about the metrics showing that. 

I hear more complaints about trade envy than anything. Often disguised as critiques on the system. 

I agree that Rivens are mostly superfluous; You don't need nearly the level of power available to us right now to adequately complete content. I'd even argue that the game is more fun when you reign it in, but that's a different conversation. 

I mostly disagree with your assessment that because a system is popular, people complaining about the system are a vocal minority that should be ignored. That is... a really stupid assessment of any similar situation, frankly. 

I don't agree with the presumption that DE has a moral obligation to do anything about it either though; If someone who values their time more than their money (which is the same thing in the grand scheme of things) wants to spend 1000 platinum on some video game crap, then its' probably fine. The situation approaches pay to win when alternative measures for interacting with the system become unrealistic, and I don't personally think that's the case... anymore; Kuva is pretty abundant with a lot of variety in its' acquisition. The amount of grind necessary to something is always a matter of personal opinion, of course. 

My official opinion on this is a sturdy "eh~". It could certainly be improved. It probably won't be. 

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I'd rather they give players complete or mostly complete control over their Riven outcomes and just get rid of the ability to trade rivens completely.  Riven market is disgusting and has had horrible ripple effects on the player market since their inclusion.  I'd rather they just be scrapped entirely for something that's actually well designed.  But you know.  That's not going to happen.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No one forces a player to spend 1000p on a riven. Not the content, DE or difficulty. So yeah, I assume that anyone that spends 1000p on a riven is doing it mainly out of luxury. It does not need to be regulated. 

That's a poor argument.  No one forces people to spend hundreds of dollars on loot boxes in video games.  They still have a negative impact on game design and customer perspective.  Rivens are essentially farmable skinner boxes that have a lasting effect on the player market as a whole.  That's bad.

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Not only that, those Rivens that go for 1000p are for weapons that are already powerful with just a few forma, so even less reason to need a riven at that price. Expensive Rivens are pure luxury. 

Price is dictated completely on the individual.  Someone who really likes bows might spend a lot of plat for a perfectly rolled diakyu riven despite it not being a super strong/meta weapon.  rivens can make or break certain builds at best and at worst they make non viable weapons viable.  It doesn't really matter what the going rate is for specifics here.  The issue is what they are by design and that they are tradable.

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So the argument is..."I hate seeing people trade for lots of plat. DE, kill the market and make it easier for me to get God roll Rivens or get rid of the system entirely because I can't get what I want"

No the argument is rivens are poorly designed because they're so reliant on RNG and because rivens have the potential to have a huge impact on a players gameplay it creates a vicious cycle of supply and demand which effectively changes how much a single platinum is worth.  Which impacts the rest of the market.

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Those who are complaining are in the minority because clearly, Rivens are one of the most popular items in this game. The devs even talked about the metrics showing that. 

I hear more complaints about trade envy than anything. Often disguised as critiques on the system. 

Popularity doesn't equate to good design or enjoyment.  Burger king and mcdonalds are highly popular burger chain resturants across the world.  They're food is terrible quality wise and terrible for you health wise.  Rivens being popular doesn't mean they're good for the game.

[(PSN)Ragology]

Maybe if their were a system involved, like a machine that made your riven perma flagged as "untradeable" and then kuva costs for that riven will be discounted. I like being able to get rivens and roll them for my clan mates, and them for me. Making them all untradeable would really hurt, especially when I unveil rivens for weapons I have no interest in.

[sitfesz]

On 2020-06-30 at 2:07 PM, Jarriaga said:

Would you be OK with DE reducing Kuva costs if you could no longer trade rolled Rivens?

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yess

As long as they don't make a riven auction house where I don't have to set and type in tons of stats, I'm against riven trading. I won't buy either.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

As an answer to the title, personally no I wouldn't be alright with that. I don't even use rivens, I do however roll them and sell them, and selling is a big part of it for me. Why would I keep rolling a riven at lower costs of kuva only to not be able to sell it?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2020-06-30 at 6:19 PM, (PS4)Yggranya said:

Not to mention the SWEET profit for you and DE an-, *cough* i mean just buy the best riven mod in the game for insane price and win becaus- *ahem* i mean whatever, it's too profitable to stop anyway. Nothing will be done so no need to protect this garbage but don't worry, i don't expect you will stop.

Who said anything about profit for me?

[kwlingo]

On 2020-06-30 at 7:07 AM, Jarriaga said:

So if the argument is "More Riven profits if Kuva is scaled or boosted", then what if DE made rolled Rivens non-tradable? That way you can't make plat out of hard mode Kuva by increasing your chances of rolling something as said roll will only be able to be used by you.

Actually this would be great idea. It would even out the cost for Rivens and everyone would have to do their own RNG. Similar to how special weapons only being able to be traded only if they have not been ranked or moded. 

They onky down fall is that DE may lose money from player buying thousand Plat bundles for what it is now.

[Angwah]

6 hours ago, kwlingo said:

They onky down fall is that DE may lose money from player buying thousand Plat bundles for what it is now.

Nah. Not if DE does this right.

Lets say we have this event, called, errr, Crimson Kuva Spear. You have to grind one or two badly designed missions. After approximately three hours you get to pick a bonus for your riven. You can pick a third bonus if you also take your choice of negative, so 9 hours to craft your perfect riven. 

Of course, not also are those missions of questionable quality, but there are bugs which sometimes make you lose one or two hours of progress, and you get randomly dropped from your event cluster and the like, so it will be frustrating.

Still, you really believe people will not leap at the opportunity? They sure as hell did it for Arcanes after all. Obviously the bulk of the community did not spend large amounts of platinum to buy them, but they will play to get those items, and Scarlet Spear, even with all the bugs and repitition was a tolerable way of doing so, while Eidolon hunting was not.

Now, let us also say that a booster will speed up this riven crafting process. Think DE will not make more money on that than the few individuals who will buy multiple thousands of platinum to spend on god-roll rivens? Sure, like with Arcanes there is enough of a demand to get the prices so high, but really, why is the supply so low even with that kind of platinum to be made? Might it be because the vast majority deems its acquisition process to be so bad not to be worth the effort, even for those amounts?

[George_PPS]

On 2020-06-30 at 5:07 AM, Jarriaga said:

Reading through test cluster posts, I saw someone posting that they are against increased Kuva in hard mode because more Kuva means indirect profit by increasing your Riven roll frequency, thus in turn increasing your chances of rolling a high-value Riven for sale. This is an argument that is 100% centered around Riven dealers taking a scattershot approach that hurts non-dealers as well.

So if the argument is "More Riven profits if Kuva is scaled or boosted", then what if DE made rolled Rivens non-tradable? That way you can't make plat out of hard mode Kuva by increasing your chances of rolling something as said roll will only be able to be used by you.

And if that sounds extreme, then what if hard mode Kuva nodes introduced a new "Refined Kuva" resource? Refined Kuva lets you roll a Riven at half the normal Kuva requirement, but if you do, you can't trade that Riven anymore. That way there is no increase in Kuva for dealers and they keep the ability to trade rolled Rivens, but they can't profit off of Hard mode Kuva as using said Kuva is an opt-in choice.

Punishing players who want to roll their own Rivens because of a Riven trading mafia is not the way to go in my opinion. 

Poll added> https://linkto.run/p/C5BKFXYQ

Why do you want to limit others trading Rivens that is none of your business if you don’t like it? Why dont you propose DE Tto allow this as an option? This communist mafia thinking is destroying this game. We always need free trade that benefits all! Any trading is better than no trading. 

[Jarriaga]

3 hours ago, George_PPS said:

Why do you want to limit others trading Rivens that is none of your business if you don’t like it? Why dont you propose DE Tto allow this as an option? This communist mafia thinking is destroying this game. We always need free trade that benefits all! Any trading is better than no trading. 

Riven trading is toxic for the game. It is now particularly under fire thanks to the Xoris debacle in which people believe DE are nerfing the Xoris so it doesn't eclipse Rivens stat-tick weapons. 40 pages of people unable to cope with the Xoris nerf because of DE's wording and using Brozime's video to attempt to discredit the intention because Rivens exist and the Xoris is not the "best" stat stick, making DE's argument objectively false.

Never mind that DE's argument was:

On 2020-07-01 at 12:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon

It was not:

On 2020-07-01 at 12:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention

Not to mention that the Refined Kuva or a stack-lock option wouldn't affect those trading until they willingly choose to opt-in.

[Angwah]

4 hours ago, George_PPS said:

Why do you want to limit others trading Rivens that is none of your business if you don’t like it? Why dont you propose DE Tto allow this as an option? This communist mafia thinking is destroying this game. We always need free trade that benefits all! Any trading is better than no trading.

This has nothing to with communist mafia thinking. Just with wanting a system that is not so messed up it produces this particular outcome.

Ok, lets apply math:

Yay, you have unveiled a riven for a primary or secondary! Now you want to roll it into a good riven with 3 positives, one negative, what are your odds?

One in four chance of three positives and one negative, followed getting 1 of 134596 possible combinations, or totalling both of these, 0,0000074% for a specific riven. Would take around 500 million kuva in rerolls to start getting good odds, but as we're playing such low odds and the way probability works, you may never get it. Sure, more than 1 combination might be good enough for you, but seriously, before you start kicking such odds up into an acceptable range where it becomes gameable content instead of a lottery we are getting far from a god-tier riven, or even a particularly good riven.

No, rivens are a thoroughly broken system.