Would you be OK with DE reducing Kuva costs if you could no longer trade rolled Rivens?

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, -Kittens- said:

As of the last update 85% of all armors come in a layered version, and by EoL that number will be 100%.

they're definitely getting there, yeah. though isn't it only special themed sets that have layered options available? everything else ('the normal stuff') seems to not as far as i've been able to tell.
and getting there too slow for my tastes though, so i manually set Overlays for the stuff i want to not have to deal with it.

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What weapons DEPEND on Rivens?

the primary category of that, are Weapons created around a theme that are unable to do so reliably or 'correctly' because of certain Stats being set to too paranoid a level, and the only way the Player can do something about fixing that is generally Rivens.

[-Kittens-]

9 minutes ago, taiiat said:

isn't it only special themed sets that have layered options available? everything else

All of world including elders and the first "season" of iceborne are now layered, and again the rest will be by the end of the game's active dev term.

[-AncientWarrior-]

I think the OP has a good point but it should be general not based on hard mode.  Now I sell a lot of rivens, why .. so I can get the ones I really want and with a riven limit etc you need to turn them over due to the high cost of RNG rolls.  If the Kuva costs were reduced as someone else said with a system of "lock-stats with a transmuter" type item, I wouldnt need to sell rivens and I am real happy about that as its really a pain in the butt rolling RNG.  I really want to roll my favourite weapon rivens to get the best stats I can .. if this kind of system was implemented it would be great for most players who only want to get the best they can out of the game, not grofit plat.  I roll rivens to increase my smashing good times :) dont really care about plat as it can come from other areas in the game which covers anything I want to purchase anyway.

[taiiat]

30 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

All of world including elders and the first "season" of iceborne are now layered, and again the rest will be by the end of the game's active dev term.

okay, after scouring the internet for a while outside of the game i was able to somewhat comprehend how/where Layered Armor is. i'll stick to doing it manually because of the ridiculous hoops Players still have to jump through in order to use the system.
i.e. you still have to play the game for an extensive amount of time without having the layering that you want, in order to be given the apparently holy privilege of being able to layer things.

instead of something normal like, once you Craft the Armor/Weapon you can use it in layering.
they basically create the Stats vs Cosmetics issue even despite having the solution in place for it.

[-Kittens-]

The extensive isn't all that extensive, certainly not to the level of current subject at hand. Parts for the lower three tiers drop like pinata candy and once you have endgame gear the "rare" armor also drops like candy aside from Event Uniques (Saafi, AT Kulve, AT Nergi, and the rarest, USJ, which only drops twice a year) and even OG AT's go down in about 5-7 minutes with Enlightened/Evolved weapons.

The only caveat is specific monsters hang in specific areas of the guiding lands, but again if you have access to any weapon from Savage Jho and upwards, it takes ten minutes at most to get the monster in question into a net to raise that area of the GL to get access to which monster you want, and the crafting recipe for layered is actually generally half what the actual armor build recipes call for, as long as it's not a Unique.

You want same level of fancyness here and you're literally paying for it one way or another.

 

[Angwah]

7 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So... Just ignore Rivens if you hate them so much? How do other people enjoying Rivens affect you? That's the beauty of this game, you get to choose what you participate in for the most part. Rivens are just one system that's there if you are interested in it. You don't need it. It's purely optional and not a requirement in any way.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you if you are going to insist it takes 100 million kuva to get a good roll. That's ridiculous. I have over 100 Rivens and I've never taken more than 20 rolls to get something good enough to replace a standard mod. The "God roll" is supposed to be rare. It's supposed to give players something to chase. Not only that, it's a luxury. There is absolutely no need for a "God roll" riven. 

There is progression. Your Rivens become better over time because you get to select the better roll. ( A good change DE made to the system) My Riven collection today is stronger than when I started. I'm not going to buy into your hyperbole. It's random when you may get a better roll, but you will definitely get something that makes a weapon better over time.

Yes, Rivens are ok. Rivens reinvigorated the game at a time when vets truly had nothing to do. It's self sustaining content that's been here for years and players are still trading like crazy. The late game doesn't require Rivens at all. Warframe doesn't even have an endgame. You get items and rank them. That's all there is to Warframe. It's lateral progression after a certain point. MR is about completion, not power.  

If you regulate your late gameplay to playing the market, that's your choice. For me, after earning 10k plat I rarely look to the market at all. Late game Warframe is really just about completing your own personal to do list. 

Oh, of course I have rivens, and yes, I even have good rivens as well. Now, it can take more than 20 rolls to get a riven better a standard mod for your low disposition weapons, I assure you, but indeed, getting to that point of a riven good enough to slot is still within the realm of a gameable system. So, yes, you can get your collection of rivens into a better shape than when you just unveil them, nobody questions that, it is blindingly obvious.

It is going beyond that where the exceedingly low RNG turns it into something you can no longer engage with and the hundreds of millions of kuva come into play. Sure, you definitely do not need it. Actually you get to the point of not needing more power to solo whatever the game can throw at you rather quickly, but on the flip-side, you also quickly get to the point that this mini-game is one of the major pieces of content left and it rapidly turns into rolling against odds lower than 1%. Much, much lower than 1%. This is the point where progress stalls and there is nothing that I, the player, can do at that point to interact with the system beyond gathering an ocean of kuva and start gambling with it. I don't like gambling, plain and simple, and especially not with those odds. 

I am sure that this was a welcome addition for late game way back when, because anything tends to be better than nothing, but that doesn't mean that what we got can not be improved upon. I am hardly alone in finding the riven system flawed.

[Alpha-7]

I doubt DE will allow that kind of a thing to happen.

[Makunogo]

On 2020-06-30 at 8:07 AM, Jarriaga said:

Reading through test cluster posts, I saw someone posting that they are against increased Kuva in hard mode because more Kuva means indirect profit by increasing your Riven roll frequency, thus in turn increasing your chances of rolling a high-value Riven for sale. This is an argument that is 100% centered around Riven dealers taking a scattershot approach that hurts non-dealers as well.

So if the argument is "More Riven profits if Kuva is scaled or boosted", then what if DE made rolled Rivens non-tradable? That way you can't make plat out of hard mode Kuva by increasing your chances of rolling something as said roll will only be able to be used by you.

And if that sounds extreme, then what if hard mode Kuva nodes introduced a new "Refined Kuva" resource? Refined Kuva lets you roll a Riven at half the normal Kuva requirement, but if you do, you can't trade that Riven anymore. That way there is no increase in Kuva for dealers and they keep the ability to trade rolled Rivens, but they can't profit off of Hard mode Kuva as using said Kuva is an opt-in choice.

Punishing players who want to roll their own Rivens because of a Riven trading mafia is not the way to go in my opinion. 

Poll added> https://linkto.run/p/C5BKFXYQ

you know that kuva endless fissures have a scaling amount of kuva. its not much but it adds up over time. 

nobody has an issue with this though?

making rivens untradeable will make all rivens cost more. because this would mean there is less rivens to choose from for buyers. 

 

say we have idk 200 nukor rivens at 300 each. 180 people use this kuva to roll them. now instead of market having 200 nukor rivens.

there is only 20 for sale now.

 you can bet that with a lower supply people will jack up their prices since its an uncontrolled market. people will for sure take advantage of limited amounts or rivens.

just look at the prices of rivens when they get primed. 

now imagine that for most popular rivens.

this would also create a dead resource for a lot of kuva rollers and de-incentive's playing hard mode when they can get kuva for rivens they want to sell

there is nothing wrong with rolling rivens for the sole purpose of selling them nobody keeps all their rivens. but having to double down on kuva farming to do it is 

a step in the wrong direction. as you now have to farm this special kuva for yourself on top of regular kuva for stuff you want to sell. 

kuva farming is already time consuming af. adding a second kuva grind is the last thing anyone would want.

 

punishing players for playing the game does not bode well. hard pass on this idea.

 

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Angwah said:

 

I am sure that this was a welcome addition for late game way back when, because anything tends to be better than nothing, but that doesn't mean that what we got can not be improved upon. I am hardly alone in finding the riven system flawed.

Riven system can definitely be improved. Stats could be more interesting for starters. 

[Angwah]

31 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Riven system can definitely be improved. Stats could be more interesting for starters. 

Sure, more interesting stats would definitely be welcomed. That and more control over the process.

My preferred system would be something like the focus system where I can put in kuva to improve the different stats as I choose, higher disposition gives more, and a capacity stat so I can eventually pick the three positives and 1 negative I am feeling like for a particular load-out, and if I'm willing to put in more time and kuva to unlock more, a different spread of three positives and negative for another load-out.

I wouldn't care if they were tradeable, because yeah, that would definitely be pay-to-skip and that's cool. I wouldn't want to skip it as it would be game content in which I could invest time and effort, with a clear return, and there a truckload of weapons with which it would be fun experimenting.