Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Astro_BS-AS said:

Guys.... be real. We all saw the Hard Mode PTS .... almost everyone trying to clear with ease the missions where using that stupid Khora Build that it´s just "press a button and everything in a 15m radius dies" .... IT´S NOT FUN to play like that. And I´m a 6 year everyday player. 

It wasn´t a good interaction. It was a BROKEN interaction. And I´m glad they´re fixing it. 

Just an opinion. Feel free to disagree

I wish we still had the applause-like. I would send you one. Also.. it was much MUCH more than 15m 😄

[Jarriaga]

41 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Well, that way of using it is entirely unrelated to the discussion at hand and it's also not getting changed. So the only case you could make with that statement as proof is that Xoris is overused, but it's not for the reasons that are getting nerfed, and that's not what you've been saying the entire time.

I had amended my post before your response to add:  Of course this has nothing to do with Khora in particular, but it goes to show that the Xoris usage stands out by itself because of said trait.

41 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Or it shows that it's Khora that's really strong, not Xoris, and the weapon merely had the misfortune of bringing that into spotlight. Kinda like a person happening upon a crime scene and then getting accused of being the murderer.

With the difference being that historically, any build that is shown to be effective by content creators is replicated to end by people who think that it's a new build or the best choice. This further pushes usage, artificially or not. The rest had existed before. So what is new? Xoris. That's the outlier.

34 minutes ago, Oorel said:

Unless I'm missing some detail about your argument, all you seem to be saying here is that Khora is strong, her 1 is strong. Nothing to do with Xoris what-so-ever. A High combo counter while using Khora's 1 is extremely strong, sure. The reason you out-damage saryn is that it counts your killing blows, saryn has relatively low DoT damage and a fully charged Khora kills with hits well over a million damage.

You wont need Naramon + duration mods either. Xoris is a lesser option to rivens or specialised augment mods as well. all Xoris offers is QoL.

It serves to exemplify why Xoris is so desirable because it pushes such builds even more by not having to invest the tiniest amount in combo duration and instead use:

- Steel Charge over Swift Momentum.

- Zenurik over Naramon (Infinite energy).

- Another damage mod over Drifting Contact/Body Count.

Xoris is QoL, but it's the kind of QoL that is so desirable that it stands out even within the context of it being a new weapon. DE don't like it when people flock to one thing. Catchmoon. Kuva Bramma. Xoris. The next thing afterward. What takes the hit is the new thing as that is the outlier. This was easy to predict.

[eboomer]

This is multiple levels of stupid.  Xoris was NOT the only one worth using - others have WAY higher riven dispositions, or other passives that are really useful (Mire and Fraggor Prime being good examples).  And Naramon Power Spike exists, so the Xoris just allowed you to use a non-melee weapon for more than 3 seconds without losing all your damage, and without runing Naramon.  This REDUCES build diversity.

But EVEN IF we accept your false claim that it has been "use Xoris or you're doing it wrong", now it is "if you use the Xoris, you're stupid."  Which is no better.

[RAZORLIGHT]

3 minutes ago, kerespup said:

Someone explained it better earlier, but basically the reason why this went under the radar is that even though DE does test and play their game, they don't min-max. This interaction was actually discovered and showcased on streams and videos by the content creators, and that's when it spread like wildfire and came under DE's radar.

Then they should hire more or better testers... remember this wasnt the first time!

[--PG--papa]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Astro_BS-AS said:

Guys.... be real. We all saw the Hard Mode PTS .... almost everyone trying to clear with ease the missions where using that stupid Khora Build that it´s just "press a button and everything in a 15m radius dies" .... IT´S NOT FUN to play like that. And I´m a 6 year everyday player. 

It wasn´t a good interaction. It was a BROKEN interaction. And I´m glad they´re fixing it. 

Just an opinion. Feel free to disagree

i really agree 

but atleast they should respect player inventment and give the inventment back atleast i think they can do atleast that much i think

[operative-verona]

3 hours ago, ImaybeAorange said:

aahh yes more power stealing thx

because we definitely don't have enough of it

[kerespup]

1 minute ago, RAZORLIGHT said:

Then they should hire more or better testers... remember this wasnt the first time!

Let's face it, even bigger developers like Riot Games, Bethesda and Blizzard still have gamebreaking bugs and issues that are way more benign than this that gets through their even bigger nets, heck, League recently just had a big exploit that ruined Ranked Games for everyone. Some things only get discovered when it hits the live builds.

Game development isn't a walk in the park.

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, eboomer said:

This is multiple levels of stupid.  Xoris was NOT the only one worth using - others have WAY higher riven dispositions, or other passives that are really useful (Mire and Fraggor Prime being good examples).  And Naramon Power Spike exists, so the Xoris just allowed you to use a non-melee weapon for more than 3 seconds without losing all your damage, and without runing Naramon.  This REDUCES build diversity.

But EVEN IF we accept your false claim that it has been "use Xoris or you're doing it wrong", now it is "if you use the Xoris, you're stupid."  Which is no better.

Having higher riven disposition does not counter the reality of why Xoris was used. Most people don't interact with Rivens.
Naramon Power Spike exists yes. But getting it is much more difficult and it still does not counter the reality of why Xoris was used.

"if you use the Xoris, you're stupid." - you are 100% right it will be this way.
But what is better ? 
You have to use 1 weapon or you are stupid.
OR
You cannot use 1 weapon, if you do you are stupid.

[CrimsonBladeZeta]

 

Listen to this guy, DE, you will know how funny and pointless you are.

[vFlitz]

1 minute ago, kerespup said:

Someone explained it better earlier, but basically the reason why this went under the radar is that even though DE does test and play their game, they don't min-max. This interaction was actually discovered and showcased on streams and videos by the content creators, and that's when it spread like wildfire and came under DE's radar.

In Khora's and Atlas' case, anyone who knows how statsticks function could have figured it out. And statsticks as a mechanic are so old that DE has no business not knowing about them. Just as it was inconceivable no one at DE thought that perhaps grips for primary tombfinger should affect charge rate or else the damage ones will be overwhelmingly superior, and yet we still had to go through that getting patched in later, after many people built, gilded, potatoed and formad their tombfingers.

As for the gladiator  interaction with exalted melee, that admittedly was a less well-known mechanic.  But it only exists as we know it today because DE changed it to be this way a few months back. Mind, it was an undocumented change, not listed in the patch notes, and we don't know the cause for it. Gladiator mod used to apply to exalteds based on their own combo counters, not the counter of the normal melee that's running in the background. Have they forgotten that they made the change, or simply failed to make the connection? Regardless, it was something that was, at some point, within their capacity to know, and yet here we are.

[Talinthis]

so the TLDR of the TLDR is it resets whenever you cast the ability? so you can raise exalted combo with the Xoris i guess if i understand. this info really needs to be in the game. how is anybody supposed to know of this exception if they dont see this exact set of patch notes?

[EchoesOfRain]

Or, you know, maybe just get rid of stat sticks altogether? I don't mean that come come off as rude, but that was the whole reason exalted weapons became moddable separately, isn't it? Except that you left out abilities such as Landslide, Whipclaw, Shattered Lash, etc, thus continuing the issue that is stat-sticks. This just seems like doubling down on the issue rather than fixing it

[TKDancer]

8 minutes ago, akots said:

Cannot call Xoris awful, just a bit inferior .... Keep in mind, you have to try and aim for the head and equip the right mods depending on the fraction.

forced slash explosions with corrupt charge is a one shot for pretty much everything around level 100 without the need for building up combo or combo efficiency mod/zenurik node to keep it from instantly going to 0

[RAZORLIGHT]

12 minutes ago, kerespup said:

Let's face it, even bigger developers like Riot Games, Bethesda and Blizzard still have gamebreaking bugs and issues that are way more benign than this that gets through their even bigger nets, heck, League recently just had a big exploit that ruined Ranked Games for everyone. Some things only get discovered when it hits the live builds.

Game development isn't a walk in the park.

You forget one thing, this exact same situation happened multiple times now, thats not compareable to bugs.

Check out the video @CrimsonBladeZeta posted, makes these changes even more rediculous.

[ArcusVeles]

Exalted abilities already have no weapon diversity, as other people have said.  Xoris just added another, more convenient, more accessible option.  You either build around these abilities or you don't use them at all (except in the case of the ones that are already extremely powerful).

I think y'all could/should have learned more about the whole exalted weapon dynamic and given it a more serious set of changes while this easily accessible (MR4) crutch kept them feeling better for people without access to other esoteric interactions (certain weapons, Focus schools, etc.) and very rare riven rolls.  Ultimately, I hope you rethink the whole combo system entirely, since weapons reliant on it feel like absolute garbage without it (and this goes 10x so for exalteds where the ability's base damage scales with the multiplier too) and losing all your stacks all the time because you decide to do anything other than constantly spam that one melee key is a huge downer.

[Jarriaga]

13 minutes ago, CrimsonBladeZeta said:

 

Listen to this guy, DE, you will know how funny and pointless you are.

1) The game is not balanced around Rivens. Never has, never will, and their existence will never be used as a barometer for how melee-based abilities are allowed to scale. Not everyone has a Riven for the Mire or Jaw sword. Everyone gets a Xoris.

2) He flat out starts his video by admitting that the Xoris was making people lazy because they didn't have to invest much on it for the benefit (At the 0:48 mark).

3) He laughs sarcastically while reading the opening post of this thread at the part DE say what their design intentions were. So this guy has no respect towards what DE set out to do, what they tried to do, or how to get back on track on what they wanted to do. He only cares about what he can do while implying DE are not being sincere.

Extreme min-maxers like him are people DE shouldn't listen to either.

[ValinorAtani]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

Greetings, Tenno!

Thank you!

See guys, those kind of actions/patches/lack of knowledge and vision are the reason I deleted the game completely from my SSD and my opinion of DE turned from "Shut up and take my money" to "Why did I even support them with my money in the past".

[Cerikus]

For everybody complaing here I have these suggestions:

1) go watch Shy's stream with Rebecca. You can then maybe understand, how gamedevelopment works and that it's easier to nerf a weapon then redo the whole game. If that video is not enough watch literally any other video about dealing with game development and upkeeping a game.
Better solution would be of course more exhalted weapons or some kind of rework, but that doesn't come overnight)

2) The genereral refund policy in the whole civilized world is that when you use the thing you buy, your refung policy is gonne. If you got Xoris, put catalyst and forma into it and played with it a bunch, you used it, therefore you don't deserve the things back. Sorry.

[Cerikus]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

1) The game is not balanced around Rivens. Never has, never will, and their existence will never be used as a barometer for how melee-based abilities are allowed to scale. Not everyone has a Riven for the Mire or Jaw sword. Everyone gets a Xoris.

2) He flat out starts his video by admitting that the Xoris was making people lazy because they didn't have to invest much on it for the benefit (At the 0:48 mark).

Extreme min-maxers like him are people DE shouldn't listen to either.

Yes, exactly what I think. 100%

[Cerikus]

2 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

See guys, those kind of actions/patches/lack of knowledge and vision are the reason I deleted the game completely from my SSD and my opinion of DE turned from "Shut up and take my money" to "Why did I even support them with my money in the past".

Why are you here then? If you are not even playing?

[Kaiune]

So can I have my forma and potato back please? This thing is mediocre at best outside this mechanic.

[elevate]

rip red crit baruuk

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, TwistedBOLT_ said:

What the xoris did: Allowed you to go not naramon or Swift momentum.
What it didn't do: Increase your damage. It just makes gameplay less clunky.
The balance for the thing came from the fact that you were unable to use good riven mods as the dispo is and should have stayed bad instead of nerfing the weapon itself.

The true fix should have been to simply make exalted weapons to scale with their own combo instead of the gladiator set buffing your exalted weapon by reading your normal melees combo.

But oh well, I can't say I didn't see it coming.

That's why I was surprised that there was a ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ thing going on.

[ValinorAtani]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Cerikus:

Why are you here then? If you are not even playing?

Easy, to let DE know why some of their whales are gone. My opinion doesnt matter anyway. Maybe it helps that someone in the sleepy DE-HQ wakes up for the rest who are still staying here to get a better game out of it.

[kerespup]

5 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

1) The game is not balanced around Rivens. Never has, never will, and their existence will never be used as a barometer for how melee-based abilities are allowed to scale. Not everyone has a Riven for the Mire or Jaw sword. Everyone gets a Xoris.

2) He flat out starts his video by admitting that the Xoris was making people lazy because they didn't have to invest much on it for the benefit (At the 0:48 mark).

3) He laughs sarcastically while reading the opening post of this thread at the part DE say what their design intentions were. So this guy has no respect towards what DE set out to do, what they tried to do, or how to get back on track on what they wanted to do. He only cares about what he can do while implying DE are not being sincere.

Extreme min-maxers like him are people DE shouldn't listen to either.

Min-maxxers should never be the basis for anything, but they do serve as a clear idea of what can be considered gamebreaking.

4 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

For everybody complaing here I have these suggestions:

1) go watch Shy's stream with Rebecca. You can then maybe understand, how gamedevelopment works and that it's easier to nerf a weapon then redo the whole game. If that video is not enough watch literally any other video about dealing with game development and upkeeping a game.
Better solution would be of course more exhalted weapons or some kind of rework, but that doesn't come overnight)

2) The genereral refund policy in the whole civilized world is that when you use the thing you buy, your refung policy is gonne. If you got Xoris, put catalyst and forma into it and played with it a bunch, you used it, therefore you don't deserve the things back. Sorry.

A lot of people really think that game design and development is a walk in the park, think they know better and refuse to educate themselves. They should really try to listen.