Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Sickle_Slayer]

3 minutes ago, -CM-Stormxdragon said:

Actually one of the first comments was a complaint about wasted formas. And that entire group of warframe are all ones with exalted weps that due to the nature of xoris could get extremely powerful, overpowered in fact - so yes those warframe shouldn't be able to use that combination not as it is.

Again, missing the point. The person even said as much that yes, it's overpowered. That doesn't mean they should make the weapon nearly unuseable by those frames.

They could literally make it so it works like a regular melee for them, or use Any other mechanic to make sure they aren't benefiting from the Xoris' inifite combo mechanic. But as of now, their 'fix' is literally harmful to those frames if they want to use it.

[stegmaier]

In this case, Im agree Xoris is OP.  Im not agree changing/releasing process about this!
Im seriously worring about this changing process makes players leaving from game. 

Take more more care players Emotional Problem.

1.OP is not responsibility of players.  It is your responsibility, DE!

How about discuss with players if you need to change about OP weapons? 
"Xoris is OP.   Let me know any idea to innate stat about Xoris instead of Unlimited Combo time?"  thread would be welcome.

2. Why do you make Overpower weapons to NoPower weapon everytime?  

 

[(XBOX)Kore207589]

Jesus I wish you guys would just leave S*** alone. If you wouldn't neuter every cool thing that shows up with the weapons/frames you drop, you might trip over the carpet and fall into some fun, diverse gameplay. God knows it the only way THAT will ever happen since it appears you want to literally carbon copy damge output with every synergy we can put our hands on. 

[Spudney]

Strongly disagree with this. There is already a stupid meta with stat stick weapons, just let us have this definitive answer

[iSiawPrime]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’

Guess it’s back to “Naramon or you’re doing it wrong”.

I’m surprised the Xoris is overpowered when it deals less damage than the alternatives. Apparently a QoL weapon is too good for this game.

 

[Drachnyn]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb WaifuJanna:

what u want to kill 3 frames??

 

The Riven Statstick is the only reason those frames even playable mid/high level. Stop try to destroy Khora/Gara... they rarely see play anyways.

Rivens were never supposed to affect warframe abilities. If the abilites cant be good without a riven then they need a buff. Defending lootbox mods is not the way to go. All the xoris did was make this kind of damage accessible without rivens. I know the riven school yard delinquint gang doesnt like their toxic market to be dealt with but DE needs to remove warframe rivens once and for all.

[nooneyouknow13]

Just let us mod these abilities directly. Stat stick skills already feel terrible, and favor weapons with augments and rivens far too much. Xoris was actually already a weaker choice than Naramon's power spike and a rivened stat stick as it was.

Just rip the band aid off, let us mod stat stick abilities directly, and let us use acolyte mods and set bonuses on exalted weapons.

[Stormxdragon]

25 minutes ago, Sickle_Slayer said:

Again, missing the point. The person even said as much that yes, it's overpowered. That doesn't mean they should make the weapon nearly unuseable by those frames.

They could literally make it so it works like a regular melee for them, or use Any other mechanic to make sure they aren't benefiting from the Xoris' inifite combo mechanic. But as of now, their 'fix' is literally harmful to those frames if they want to use it.

I'm not missing the point, it's yet another tantrum because people don't like a nerf that was so utterly obvious and needed. It is just another melee weapon of whi h there are a wide variety to choose from 

[(XBOX)Sexy Paydaybar]

This solution/nerf makes the melee utterly useless as a khora main. I am SO GLAD I didn't waste forma on it because I was going to go all out on this weapon today. Even going as far as to buying an over priced riven for it that now would start with a .5 dispo because I knew how this would give me an alternative to combo duration mods and the naramon combo counter passive. 

I enjoy tactical frames that can survive when casting their abilities frequently such as mag, nova, vauban, and khora to name a few of my most used frames.

An efficient khora whipclaw is what I build for because she is the the only defensive frame that can deal directional damage to a crowd of enemies without some huge casting time while on the move. Sidenote: Yea I was a vauban main for before she existed and he was all crowd control and no damage at the time.

This nerf destroys the use of having a combo counter when using her whipclaw frequently.

Think of a better solution please instead of these quick fixes with no real thought on gameplay such the khora venari heal incident.

If the uniqueness is the problem then how about providing Melee exlius mod slots with a Legendary MOD  or Melee arcane slot upgrade (that fuctions like equipping a catalyst) with a legendary arcane that would give the same to similar benefit. Meaningful mods, arcanes and/or upgrades worthy of being in a future raid drop table. Kuva raids, Rail Jack raids, Void raids....WHEN?

tl:dr Forget this nerf. The infinite combo provided an alternative to combo duration mods and naramon combo counter passive for warframe combo counter abilities and should remain in the game as such.

[TheMasterSwordMaster976]

5 hours ago, kerespup said:

Any player with a good head on their shoulders would have realized how broken the Xoris interaction was and would have realized it would be nerfed.

if this is the case then why in the holy name of Pablo did Xoris make it past the design phase with this mechanic in the first place?

[WaifuJanna]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Drachnyn:

Rivens were never supposed to affect warframe abilities. If the abilites cant be good without a riven then they need a buff. Defending lootbox mods is not the way to go. All the xoris did was make this kind of damage accessible without rivens. I know the riven school yard delinquint gang doesnt like their toxic market to be dealt with but DE needs to remove warframe rivens once and for all.

How you want to balance an abillity that is good/usable lategame and NOT super broken early game?

It should work exactly like it is right now and every frame should have abillitys that scale with weapons so you have usefull stuff midgame too.

 

No riven/statstick -> even with 200% Strength the abillity deal 8-10k dmg and is only good early game <level 40 mobs
Riven/statstick -> alows the abillity to be usefull midgame <level 80 mobs (my gara wall make 70k dmg for example) [oneshotting any mob (except Nox/Sentinels) <level 50 and all squishi mobs < 90]

 

as a gara main i have created a sheet to calculate the dmg:

Current system with MY statstick/riven: ~70k DMG ult

 

Your Suggestion without Riven:  ~35k DMG ult  You would struggle at mobs level 40... and cant even make some StarChart content...

Your Suggestion without Statstick at all: 2,7k DMG ult... You cant even beat level 20 mobs.... Better vendor gara and play Saryn like 99% of community...

 

 

Without Stat-sticks "Caster Frames" would be unplayable mid/lategame. And not everyone wants to play a Meele "E" spamm frame.... Some people like to use abilitys and even spam them.  Goodluck killing level 60 enemys with Ember, Banshee, Volt Ult.... they dont have statsticks.....

 

If you played Gara in a "no melee weapon sortie" you will understand what i am talkint about ... you cannot kill a single monster, 1,2,4 No dmg at all. So you can only survive (tank) but cant kill anything... So yeah, Gara would be DEAD without statstick.

 

[Stahlta]

Back to jaw sword I guess 😂

[TrueGrit2496]

I suppose we should be looking forward to something like this in the future then.

Quote

Greetings, Tenno!

Within The War Within Quest brought the new Riven Mods. Capable of extremely powerful stats that would adjust to the power of the weapon it is for. The design intention was to breath new life into older weapons while offering a more customizable approach to modding others. This new mechanic opened up new builds as well as opportunities to min max certain weapons, which is great!

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with Riven Mods, and the conversation of ‘Riven or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice. This was our oversight, our mistake, and we apologize for the time it took to formulate a plan and address this. So let’s break down our plans:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved, or the dispositions that amplify the issue (Amphis, Ether Daggers, Cronus, Dark Sword, Dual Skana, Heat Sword, plasma sword) , as doing so isn’t fair as it’s a reaction to the effects of a single Mod Slot. In turn, we have planned to only change the interactions with the Rivens directly. 

 Riven’s extreme stats directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay as it is always active when equipped. This problem is further exacerbated by Rivens scaling with Warframe Abilities that are amplified by your Melee Combo multiplier (Ash Blade Storm, Atlas Landslide, and Khora Whipclaw), and even more so when equipped with Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds.

The solution: The change coming with The Next Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons no longer scale off of any equipped Riven mod. As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a subset of subpar weapons that require a massive amount of investment, to get the optimal stats,  for indisputable best performance invalidates all others options and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole. 

I don't always play exalted melee warframes for their exalted melee. I played valkyr because she was tanky and could turn slower melee weapons into a blender, Wukong for his speed and versatility,and  baruuk as defy 2.0. The introduction of the xoris was the first time i took Baruuk seriously, i re-forma'd my wukong to focus on iron staff, and I was going to be reworking a Valkyr build tonight.

Now, i dont think ill play baruuk again anytime soon, i will be better off reverting my wukong build; and im no longer going to look at revamping my Valkyr, Excalibur, Khora, Atlas, and Ash. Instead of playing different warframes, I will go back to the 2-3 I am comfortable with. instead of a utility melee weapon on some frames, i will use the reaper prime on almost everything. 

I can't say im surprised that your stated goal with this change will conflict with how I looked at the introduction of the xoris, i just hope you eventually fix exalted melee so that it it does not depend on stat sticks or passives to be fun and effective.

[Sickle_Slayer]

5 minutes ago, -CM-Stormxdragon said:

I'm not missing the point, it's yet another tantrum because people don't like a nerf that was so utterly obvious and needed. It is just another melee weapon of whi h there are a wide variety to choose from 

Not missing the point? When you quote someone, don't even address what they Actually said, and entierly disreguard what they have to say. Then continue on to complain about other people who are complaining about something entierly different from the person you quoted 🙃

But sure, you didn't miss the point.

[iHeuksal]

Then give us our formas back which we have invested into Xoris.

You guys can never make up your minds, aren't you? Stop luring us to new content and nerfing them right away. This is bloody annoying 😠

[Drachnyn]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb WaifuJanna:

How you want to balance an abillity that is good/usable lategame and NOT super broken early game?

It should work exactly like it is right now and every frame should have abillitys that scale with weapons so you have usefull stuff midgame too.

 

No riven/statstick -> even with 200% Strength the abillity deal 8-10k dmg and is only good early game <level 40 mobs
Riven/statstick -> alows the abillity to be usefull midgame <level 80 mobs (my gara wall make 70k dmg for example) [oneshotting any mob (except Nox/Sentinels) <level 50 and all squishi mobs < 90]

 

as a gara main i have created a sheet to calculate the dmg:

Current system with MY statstick/riven: ~70k DMG ult

 

Your Suggestion without Riven:  ~35k DMG ult  You would struggle at mobs level 40... and cant even make some StarChart content...

Your Suggestion without Statstick at all: 2,7k DMG ult... You cant even beat level 20 mobs.... Better vendor gara and play Saryn like 99% of community...

 

 

Without Stat-sticks "Caster Frames" would be unplayable mid/lategame. And not everyone wants to play a Meele "E" spamm frame.... Some people like to use abilitys and even spam them.  Goodluck killing level 60 enemys with Ember, Banshee, Volt Ult.... they dont have statsticks.....

 

If only there was a way for DE to make a scaling modifier in an abilities damage calculation like vauban has. Sadly such thing does not exist in the game. /s

[Stormxdragon]

I got the point and I disregarded it. The weapon had the capacity to be overpowered so it got nerfed - while your going on and on about your point try grasping that one. We can argue all day about who's not getting who's point but the fact is this nerf should have seen coming a mile off. 

[ForcestormX]

Honestly, feels like a missed opportunity to do real work in exchange for the cheap option. I feel that either an ability should be moddable directly or only via frame mods, but not via stat sticks. Here you were faced with a golden chance to take all the nonexalted statstick abilities in the game and finally choose to either port the exalted weapon functionality to them or just rebalance the stats while removing the wonky and unclear interactions, and the choice was neither. Xoris was the first time I actually bothered to statstick because it took combo out of the equation, and now it's right back to square one on the relevant frames, only I don't have any rivens. After all the talk about increasing clarity in communicating game stats, this probably leaves nobody happy. It'd be worth delaying Steel Path or at least freezing some features until this was addressed, too.

Too bad.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

the only reason xoris was required for the exalted ultimates (exalted blade, valkyrs talons, ect) was because the old interaction with the gladiator mod set was broken.

Please return the functionality of exalted melee weapons benefiting from the gladiator mod set through their own combo counter

[nooneyouknow13]

7 hours ago, Katinka said:

I would've been quite annoyed if a weapon I'm not even using cost me the Gladiator set on my Valkyr build's Hysteria.

You already lost that a month ago. The only time the gladiator set affects exalted weapons right now is if you built the bonus with a normal melee weapon before activating it, and you'd lose the bonus when that combo timed out anyway. Xoris brought the bonus back for a couple of weeks, but once this goes live it'll be more or less gone again.

[(XBOX)L0RDPH03N1X95]

@[DE]Megan @[DE]Rebecca

Why not just let these Abilities be able to be modable and remove the function of Melee becoming a Stat Stick. 

[Katinka]

1 minute ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You already lost that a month ago. The only time the gladiator set affects exalted weapons right now is if you built the bonus with a normal melee weapon before activating it, and you'd lose the bonus when that combo timed out anyway.

Yeah, I've been made aware of that already and am disappointed.

[Husbandry]

8 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

So what your saying is that we should just throw out the Xoris and the 3-5 forma we put on it?

Gee, thanks for the heads up.

Be glad that you didn't buy a riven for it.

 

Also... I can't say I'll like this change. It was nice not being tied to naramon to keep combo up.

 

[dimerapis]

I suggest Instead of resetting the combo counter, a change that reduces the combo counter by a small amount only for reference abilities.(Ex. 1 decrease for per hit)
The performance is good at the beginning, but it gradually becomes weaker and needs to be recharged.

Players will be able to take advantage of the characteristics of Xoris to accumulate combo counters and create cycles and options to consume with abilities.

It's too much nerf to reset the combo counter. If this continues, no one will touch the new content.

[Sickle_Slayer]

20 minutes ago, -CM-Stormxdragon said:

I got the point and I disregarded it. The weapon had the capacity to be overpowered so it got nerfed - while your going on and on about your point try grasping that one. We can argue all day about who's not getting who's point but the fact is this nerf should have seen coming a mile off. 

Lol you act as if I was defendind a mechanic was clearly OP, and saying that the nerf wasn't justified. I Know it was justified. And the fact that it would be getting a nerf isn't the point of contention.

What IS contended, is that they're not only going to nerf it so it's on equal terms with any other melee. But they're going beyond that and making it detrimental. They're making it the ONLY melee that won't be useable for an entire category of warframes.