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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


[DE]Megan

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2 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Did you even read the original post? The interaction of this something with some frames was nerfed, not the something itself.

i did, and Xoris is nerfed, but, it's interaction is only with the mentioned abilities, why even bother nerfing it? Idk what people says about this but i don't like Glaives as a melee weapon, so i don't use it (often) even with frames like Atlas or Baruuk.
DE is so stubborn to buff something and yet, nerf like the game depends on it.

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2 minutes ago, Amadurim said:

i did, and Xoris is nerfed, but, it's interaction is only with the mentioned abilities, why even bother nerfing it? Idk what people says about this but i don't like Glaives as a melee weapon, so i don't use it (often) even with frames like Atlas or Baruuk.
DE is so stubborn to buff something and yet, nerf like the game depends on it.

Agree!

some players just willingly swallow everything that is thrown at them, and those who do not agree "did not understand the original post"

I think you should keep it just like everyone who disagrees with unwanted changes, the interaction was fun, there is no hell to nerf something to take away the fun, it's a game, the idea was to have fun, no?

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I don't like this change specifically for non-channeled melee abilities (whipclaw for example), the Xoris while powerful was by no means the "best" melee statstick for exalted weapons in every situation. If your Warframes exalted weapon is efficient enough, or you aren't primarily using an exalted so you can save energy but would still like to use one you can run the Naramon which can partially or completely ignore your combo drain. If you want or need more damage running weapons with higher riven dispositions is an option, and the Venka Prime's boosted combo cap will help out if you don't have a decent riven. In game modes like ESO where your melee combo gets reset whenever you go through the conduit melee's with increased base combo like the Furax Wraith and Fragor Prime are helpful giving you strong opening damage. Overall I don't think the Xoris was anywhere near overpowered, while it was a very useful effect and will incidentally boost damage due to you not requiring combo mods other melee's are still useful in many scenarios. If you're going to kill the ability to hold combo on the Xoris for those abilities it would be odd not to kill other melee interactions with exalted abilities like with the Venka Prime, Rivens and innate combo modifiers like with the Fragor Prime and while I don't wish for that to happen I'd like to wonder why just this and not all of the above?

A few side notes; Slash Dash functions in the same manner as Landslide and Whipclaw but has pathetic damage output, will it also be affected by these changes? If so... ouch? and will we be able to see how mods affect abilities like Whipclaw and Landslide in the future, as it is currently it is completely trial and error to find out what mods actually boost their damage output. (Things like Condition Overload and faction damage not working for example)

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so we cant have fun interactions with abilities but my "Press E" to win Nikana build is just fine thanks to Condition Overload + Weeping Wounds? I don't get it you add something fun and then yank it away only to leave the most broken mods available in the game untouched so Melee will forever be the best dmg dealer...

Stop "fixing" things for once and let players have thier fun, trying to appease every single person is why there continues to be no enjoyable end game content for long term players let alone the end of all PVP in the game because who wants to play that mess nowadays....

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I don't think the Xoris was OP, it was just trendy.

I kind of understand that an overused weapon gets "re-balanced" though. Still, i think the way it is done is a bit over the top as it totally makes the xoris useless as a stat stick which is a bit sad. I would rather have preferred a fix that would have put it more in line with other usual stat-sticks (which actually are quite few, so in a way the xoris was bringing some diversity).

The infinite combo was nicely convenient but you can manage your combo otherwise (using Naramon or combo duration mods) with other stat sticks. I sure felt a bit lazy when using it rather than my jaw sword or mire stat sticks but the numbers i obtained while using it were not something i could not get with these weapons. I can probably even do more damage with the jaw or the mire but in most cases it was just overkill anyway and i preferred the convenience over the raw damage.
Most of the complains i have seen about the Xoris were mostly that it was making Khora or Baruuk OP and i felt that these comments were mostly made out of ignorance. You could do damage with theses frame before. Khora was doing millions of damage thanks to the accumulating whipclaw augment. But, since some popular streamers/youtubers made some video about Khora (with or without the Xoris), some tends to think she suddenly became OP. The number you get with Khora are also not just a "press whiplash to win" button, you have to work for it: cleverly build your stat sticks (which then become mostly useless as a melee), building your combo counter and not letting it drop, also using your other abilities to regroup mobs etc.. ...Xoris did not just made it possible, it just removed the combo management part. 
So the nerf to the Xoris will not change so much to me. I will still do good damages with Khora while some will think that she is back to "just a farming frame". But i am a bit sad because i feel this weapon is getting nerfed for the wrong reasons.  

 

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15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

What you’ll see now is the Critical Chance bonus applying to the first hit on abilities that are intended to scale with regular Melee Combo Multiplier, but then the Melee Combo is reset by the Ability,

 

15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The design intention behind the infinite combo mechanic was predominantly added for the Granum Void’s charged throw moments, to allow you to retain your charges until you were ready

Doesn't this mean the end of the Deadlock Protocol is now broken for any players who haven't read this and don't realise that their choice of frame wipes their Xoris charges?

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26 minutes ago, ZukeZima said:

some players just willingly swallow everything that is thrown at them, and those who do not agree "did not understand the original post"

The lack of comprehension is incredible. Should I bother explaining anything?

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Doesn't this mean the end of the Deadlock Protocol is now broken for any players who haven't read this and don't realise that their choice of frame wipes their Xoris charges?

No. How did you come to this conclusion?

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15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice.
 

The whole idea that player choice for a statstick matters is a non-starter, if you are using a statstick for a melee ability then outside of rivens or a weapon's special function (ie. venka/fragor) it doesnt matter what you use for that statstick. When it makes 0 difference what you choose, because the choice is irrelevant, that is just another form of no choice.

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This indicates the problem of the melee combo counter that if you could not find enemies nearby or forgot to use melees for let's say ten seconds, you lose entire 12x multiplier which takes a long time to build.

Now why don't you make Naramon Power Spike as a default function of the combo counter? 

 

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7 minutes ago, linn4you said:

it´s revised/rework time, great opportunity to remove buffsticks and balance exhalted weapons/abilitys in general
pls don´t miss your chance, the whole buffstick system doesn´t make alot of sense

Players: "It's a great reason to rework abilities, while also buffing weaker exalted weapons in a process, instead of nerfing one weapon that simply highlights already existing problem and call it a day."

 

DE: "Ha-ha nerf go woosh!"

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32 minutes ago, Xaero said:
38 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Doesn't this mean the end of the Deadlock Protocol is now broken for any players who haven't read this and don't realise that their choice of frame wipes their Xoris charges?

No. How did you come to this conclusion?

Because every time they use their frame's abilities the Xoris's charges will reset, though as that isn't documented anywhere but here it's going to hard for them to figure it out.

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1 hour ago, Amadurim said:

i did, and Xoris is nerfed, but, it's interaction is only with the mentioned abilities, why even bother nerfing it? Idk what people says about this but i don't like Glaives as a melee weapon, so i don't use it (often) even with frames like Atlas or Baruuk.
DE is so stubborn to buff something and yet, nerf like the game depends on it.

the fact you said "i dont use it often..." so why are u bothered by it....

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53 minutes ago, Xkorpitron said:

the fact you said "i dont use it often..." so why are u bothered by it....

I mean I didn't like using it at all when I got it but the fact that things like this is getting nerfed due to the idea of "restricting player choice" meanwhile frames like Saryn and Mesa singlehandedly dominate the DPS frame roles and go untouched for years bothers me.

Especially since the Xoris wasn't even the best statstick nonetheless a good melee weapon...

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb TheMasterSwordMaster976:

youre glad to see DE make a weapon completely irrelevant? 👍

It already was bevore. People just overhyped it and thought it's best in slot for every excalted frame. It only was a very small buff for baruuk.

Now people start to think again which weapons are best for every excalted frame and don't stick with medium choice that is only a stat stick and a very bad weapon too.

With other words: yes i'm very happy about this change because people get pushed in the right direction

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16 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

Yeah, let's use saryn, a frame that even devs (Pablo, i think) call problematic and thinking about nerfing, as a justification of mesa not being OP. Hey, why won't we just skip all this fuss and jump straight to octavia instead?

I can use a bad example to make my point look more valid too, you know. Compare mesa to excal, who btw is worse in pretty much every way possible yet is getting a third nerf already over these five years while mesa gets no nerfs whatsoever, and tell me how mesa is balanced.

Pablo said that in the context of ESO... Because yeah, unlike most frames Saryn can do most of its damage from its #1, which makes Saryn PERFECT for ESO. Outside ESO, she's crap in low lvl maps (well at least using spores, because you can't) and meh on mid-tier maps. Saryn is strong because she's basically the only Warframe that actively stacks damage.

Equinox is a close second to Saryin in ESO, for much the same reason, she can also stack damage, which means it can scale with enemies.

Basically, those two should be examples to emulate, not to Nerf. Honestly, DE still shows issues understanding how their game is played in a lot of ways, and tend to balance for 1-60 which means that all except the very few frames that stack damage, or that have some exploitable gimmick, end up falling out at higher levels.
And this change is another one that shows a narrow view from devs... It would be best to detach combo counter decay from the heavy attacks.

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