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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


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16 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

Yeah, let's use saryn, a frame that even devs (Pablo, i think) call problematic and thinking about nerfing, as a justification of mesa not being OP. Hey, why won't we just skip all this fuss and jump straight to octavia instead?

I can use a bad example to make my point look more valid too, you know. Compare mesa to excal, who btw is worse in pretty much every way possible yet is getting a third nerf already over these five years while mesa gets no nerfs whatsoever, and tell me how mesa is balanced.

Pablo said that in the context of ESO... Because yeah, unlike most frames Saryn can do most of its damage from its #1, which makes Saryn PERFECT for ESO. Outside ESO, she's crap in low lvl maps (well at least using spores, because you can't) and meh on mid-tier maps. Saryn is strong because she's basically the only Warframe that actively stacks damage.

Equinox is a close second to Saryin in ESO, for much the same reason, she can also stack damage, which means it can scale with enemies.

Basically, those two should be examples to emulate, not to Nerf. Honestly, DE still shows issues understanding how their game is played in a lot of ways, and tend to balance for 1-60 which means that all except the very few frames that stack damage, or that have some exploitable gimmick, end up falling out at higher levels.
And this change is another one that shows a narrow view from devs... It would be best to detach combo counter decay from the heavy attacks.

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So the intended interaction for the Xoris now is to build it up and use only 1 usage of an ability that scales with it? Abilities that are made to be spammed? You didn't think to nerf numbers, or idk make other warframe abilities scale in unique ways so they can also rise up to the same kind of damage potential? You have several warframe abilities that scale on just ability strength that feel completely outdated, and here you are nerfing a great weapon that had the potential to elevate the frames that could use it to a level that made them very attractive for other players to play.

I'm no game designer, but it seems to me that the Xoris is useless now. Why use it as a regular melee weapon when other weapons work better with just drifting contact as a way to extend combo duration? There are a lot of situations where you are capable of building and holding long combos with regular weapons. It's a very easy melee weapon to use and that is appealing, but with practice you have a whole arsenal of other weapons that can do better than the Xoris. The Xoris excelled at buffing warframe abilities and thats what people were gravitating towards. Instead of taking that away from people who found genuine enjoyment in that playstyle, perhaps find solutions that don't immediately gut it??

A few ideas I'd suggest are either make the Xoris itself have its combo counter decay instead of simply going away after the combo duration ends. Or perhaps nerf the numbers of how much that combo counter can affect Warframe abilities while still making it an attractive stat stick. And like I suggested before, I would very much like to see ALL WARFRAMES that have some kind of damaging ability where the primary focus of it is its damage, to actually scale off of something other than ability strength.

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17 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Giving the Xoris combo duration kills the intended design for the Granum Void, which in turn affects The Deadlock Protocol quest. The idea of an infinite combo duration weapon opens the door for some cool builds, but we don't want the Xoris to be the only way to play.

Why not decide on, and commit to a consistent and proper universal game system decision? Rather than have another weird conditional setting that isn't explained or displayed in-game, why not just say that melee warframe abilities are simply treated as heavy attacks and that exalted weapons override the combo duration of the equipped melee with their own combo duration when active?

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Please, please, PLEASE reconsider this. What the Xoris did isn't create this oppressive "Xoris or you're doing it wrong" meta. It did the exact opposite - It gave us more options. Because even though the Xoris has infinite combo duration, it's still, much, much, much less powerful than other stat sticks. Literally the current meta was - Melee weapon with 5/5 riven dispo and syndicate mod, and that's because it gives us HUGE damage numbers. The Xoris doesn't have access to these, making it less powerful. However, this came with the benefit of never having to worry about your combo counter ever- and that was a huge quality of life update for frames that have spammable melee-affected abilities like Khora or Atlas.

The Xoris gave us an additional option with these abilities - Do much less damage but never worry about combo, or do a huge amount of damage at the cost of combo Decay. This essentially gave more options to break free from the current meta, and was such a nice change. Nerfing the Xoris is counterproductive to what you want to achieve, because all this is gonna do is bring back the Syndicate-mod +5/5 riven dispo melee meta, the opposite of what you want.

Edited by VocaSeiza
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i don't know if it is possible but having the Xoris behave with warframe abilities as if it has an build-in drifting contact, body count or power spike would, in my opinion, make it more or less on part with other stat sticks (less damage since it does not have an associated syndicate mod but gaining an utility to compensate). With the planned changes it would become totally useless as a stat stick.

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Why not just reduce the max combo of the Xoris when using Exalted Weapons? You would be trading Damage and Critical Chance for the utility of not having to use +Combo Duration or Naramon

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

I mean I didn't like using it at all when I got it but the fact that things like this is getting nerfed due to the idea of "restricting player choice" meanwhile frames like Saryn and Mesa singlehandedly dominate the DPS frame roles and go untouched for years bothers me.

Especially since the Xoris wasn't even the best statstick nonetheless a good melee weapon...

Xoris wasnt even touched...the only thing that changed it's how it interacted with some warframes abilities, again, if u didnt use it, why does it bother you, i used it, it's fun, but doesnt bother me this change, and Saryn and Mesa are mainly dps'ers, how you go on about "making changes"? would it be "nerfs"? they did in fact changed saryn not so long ago, but what bothers you, is that they are top damage dealers on most missions, and here's a fact...you always going to have a glass canon frame, that dominates the damage, face it.

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1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

Pablo said that in the context of ESO... Because yeah, unlike most frames Saryn can do most of its damage from its #1, which makes Saryn PERFECT for ESO. Outside ESO, she's crap in low lvl maps (well at least using spores, because you can't) and meh on mid-tier maps. Saryn is strong because she's basically the only Warframe that actively stacks damage.

Equinox is a close second to Saryin in ESO, for much the same reason, she can also stack damage, which means it can scale with enemies.

Basically, those two should be examples to emulate, not to Nerf. Honestly, DE still shows issues understanding how their game is played in a lot of ways, and tend to balance for 1-60 which means that all except the very few frames that stack damage, or that have some exploitable gimmick, end up falling out at higher levels.
And this change is another one that shows a narrow view from devs... It would be best to detach combo counter decay from the heavy attacks.

Not to mention i remember some people insta leaving when there was no saryn...yeah, i wonder what would happen, if people would demand a nerf to saryn...and mesa is pretty much self explanatory, mesa is literally a glass canon without her 3rd ability, why would u nerf mesa...but good points there.

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I can't understand why I keep playing this game anymore. Every single thing that something is fun or cool to use is just nerfed to the ground. I'm so tired of building the stuff that I think is fun or cool and some time later that thing is nerfed, i have lost the account of how much times that something that i like is nerfed, so much time, so many formas, so many potatos and plat wasted for what? This game is becoming a huge waste of my time. I'm mr 29 now, i want to know, why are you trying to kill the fun in this game? So much time building the weapons for nothing! im really tired of that, maybe is just time to move to another game, some game that fun is allowed...

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vor 32 Minuten schrieb Zentun.:

I can't understand why I keep playing this game anymore. Every single thing that something is fun or cool to use is just nerfed to the ground. I'm so tired of building the stuff that I think is fun or cool and some time later that thing is nerfed, i have lost the account of how much times that something that i like is nerfed, so much time, so many formas, so many potatos and plat wasted for what? This game is becoming a huge waste of my time. I'm mr 29 now, i want to know, why are you trying to kill the fun in this game? So much time building the weapons for nothing! im really tired of that, maybe is just time to move to another game, some game that fun is allowed...

This. 
Most weapons NEVER recovered of DE's stupid nerfs policy. 

Rip Xoris, another good weapon that became fodder. 

Edited by Zeniistar
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I absolutely disagree "The design intention behind the infinite combo mechanic was predominantly added for the Granum Void’s charged throw moments, to allow you to retain your charges until you were ready". 
It is impossible that you did not think that we were going to seek and apply all the potential uses of this weapon, including on the Exalted / Gladiator etc.
"However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon (...)
...was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon. Sry Meg, you are gamers by being dev, I do not believe in this nice post.

We are far from beta, you are better than ever, you pay attention to feedback (not all unfortunately -nerf this nerf that from noob or no brain, no endless gamer, just "smart"gamer using 3 sames builds on 3 frames. ..).


I react to this post, because I consider that it is in bad faith: to give us a weapon with these characteristics "without having thought that ..", it is a joke.


It's impossible not to have seen what we can do with this developing weapon -change beta tester, without laughing-.

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19 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved, or the Mods that amplify the issue (Blood Rush / Weeping Wounds / Gladiator Mod Set), as doing so isn’t fair as it’s a reaction to a single weapon

Funny, cause thats EXACTLY what you did with all AOE weapons because of the bramma, and now we are stuck with self-stagger on weapons that never had self-damage before, even on AMPs. 👎

By your own admission you should undo all this self-stagger nonsense and revert all changes to AOE weapons that never had any self-damage to them to begin with.

Edited by IIAc3sII
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1 hour ago, Xkorpitron said:

Xoris wasnt even touched...the only thing that changed it's how it interacted with some warframes abilities, again, if u didnt use it, why does it bother you, i used it, it's fun, but doesnt bother me this change, and Saryn and Mesa are mainly dps'ers, how you go on about "making changes"? would it be "nerfs"? they did in fact changed saryn not so long ago, but what bothers you, is that they are top damage dealers on most missions, and here's a fact...you always going to have a glass canon frame, that dominates the damage, face it.

Technically, Xoris essentially not being useable with certain abilities is it being touched because now nobody has any real reason to use it except for the new activity which even then people would just bring Mesa. It's only real use and niche is gone all because of a misunderstanding of DE's misplaced sense of balancing. I've USED the Xoris and it sucks just as a melee weapon.

And who's exactly the glass cannon frame here, both Mesa and Saryn can tank a good amount of damage when built properly on top nuking rooms, Face it.

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

 

And who's exactly the glass cannon frame here, both Mesa and Saryn can tank a good amount of damage when built properly on top nuking rooms, Face it.

Yeah, it's funny to see a frame like mesa being called a glass cannon when it has better survivability than excal - an actual melee frame who has to get in distance to do damage, and as aa result takes more damage in the process.

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Then why don't you take that little step forward and make a personal mod slot even for the non exalted abilities that take power from the mods in the melee weapon (Ash bladestorm, Atlas landslide, ecc...)? I'm tired of aving to bring a weapon that i don't want to use just because without that the power of the ability goes down by a looooot. 

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vor 57 Minuten schrieb IIAc3sII:

Funny, cause thats EXACTLY what you did with all AOE weapons because of the bramma, and now we are stuck with self-stagger on weapons that never had self-damage before, even on AMPs. 👎

By your own admission you should undo all this self-stagger nonsense and revert all changes to AOE weapons that never had any self-damage to them to begin with.

Dont waste your energy. They are stubborn to death to admit that they did something wrong especially as an overreaction or a lack of knowledge of their own game. Those kind of reaction "nerfs" (even if justified in case of the Bramma, which needed it, the rest what they changed was pure BS) will be the new golden Standard for DE. No Fun allowed. The answer of DE will be the usual one as well: Its our Vision-Bla Bla. Just leave if you dont like how we're doing the game. We right everytime and only want your money you unfaithful casual.

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Sooo, where can i get my formas back?

To be frank, the only reason Xoris became "the Statstick" is because the hole interaction of certain abilities of meele weapons was a bit.... intersting to begin with.

IF you want to have an equl playing field, take out the interaction altogether and just balance the abilities by themselves.

Edited by dasgrinser
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7 hours ago, Magus_Tahir said:

I'm not advocating one way or the other. I don't use Rivens all that much if at all. Regardless of how one feels about the system stating logical reasoning in explaining obvious design choices is a scholarly discussion not a revolutionary one. So cool your heels and calm your language, also you misspelled improved.

If you want to push your anti Riven agenda go start your own threads in the Feedback section instead of hiding in other people's shadows for cover its poor taste.

I am not Anti Riven I am Pro- Warframe not being dogS#&$- if that is too rough for you, well all I can tell you sit and spin.

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2 hours ago, Zentun. said:

I can't understand why I keep playing this game anymore. Every single thing that something is fun or cool to use is just nerfed to the ground. I'm so tired of building the stuff that I think is fun or cool and some time later that thing is nerfed, i have lost the account of how much times that something that i like is nerfed, so much time, so many formas, so many potatos and plat wasted for what? This game is becoming a huge waste of my time. I'm mr 29 now, i want to know, why are you trying to kill the fun in this game? So much time building the weapons for nothing! im really tired of that, maybe is just time to move to another game, some game that fun is allowed...

Totally agreed and couldn't have said it better myself.  I posted earlier in this thread with my disappointment in this latest nerf.  Am MR29 as well and am disheartened with spending lots of time and resources on something only for it to be ripped out of my hands by the fun police.  I've decided to take a break from Warframe as well, which makes me very sad..... but enough is enough 😞

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