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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


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Idk dude you could have done the same thing but better if you brought a 5 disposition weapon and just pop out of your exalted blade every once in a while to hit them, all Xoris is is removing that annoyance.

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the xoris nerf doesn't make sense, people were using the xoris because it was a convinient tool in our arsenal, the xoris had you having the ability to more conviniently make builds around warframe abilities that centered around the melee combo multiplier without caring about the damage going back down if the melee combo resets, these builds have been in the game for MOUNTHS, they only seen such a great resurgence now because the xoris offered a playstyle convinince that said "you don't have to worry about this little timer anymore for your damage" and yes, that's all they needed to do to make people use them, surprise, having a thing be convinient is FUN no one likes to manage timers that sometimes aren't even in your control because the game can have periods of time where it litrelly doesn't spawn enemies to upkeep your multiplier and it's a feelbad to know spawns can #*!% your damage over.

moreover, the stated "problem" by DE was that the xoris made abilities do "overwhelming damage", that, is objectively untrue, as combo DURATION does not affect our damage directly, rather it lets us keep the bonus's of having our combos maxed out, and we already had access to that via combo duration mods and/or naramon, all xoris could have possibly done to increase our actual damage was releasing 1 mod slot on a stat stick build which doesn't add much considering it doesn't have an augment or the riven dispo to fill up that slot with something immensely powerful which for some reason also work on those abilities, realistically even now it actually has lower damage output then most actually good stat sticks which use a busted riven to replace 2 mod slots with stats greater then what you'd use on them anyway and more then fill up the last mod slots it's actually using, (example, amphis that has great dispo using a riven with crit damage, crit chance and melee damage would replace orgen shatter, sacrificial steel, and spoiled strike respectively with straight up better stats and have 2 mod slots remaining that can be filled up with more damage and a combo duration mod to compensate) and even without a riven we could either use naramon to do the exact same thing as the xoris, but again, less conviniently because we'd loss the energy aconemy we get from zenurik, and if we're not doing that we loss just 1 mod slot for drifting contact and call it a day because we don't loss that much damage from that either way. this means even now we have access to builds that make these abilities abjectively more powerful then the xoris but slightly less covinent which also straight up destroys the wrong perspective of 'if you're not using the xoris you're doing it wrong' and so nerfing the xoris does less then nothing, it demorelizes the playerbase making us think "why can't we have anything fun?".

i also want to mention that the builds taking advantege of the gladiator set on warframes like baruuk, which we could do anyway just by using all the combo duration mods on our melee and use naramon then we get basically the same thing as the xoris only we once in like 10 minutes need to go out of the exulted ability to refresh the combo to max, why we've seen a spike of people using the xoris for it? because using the naramon tactic is #*!%ing inconvinent. not to mention we wouldn't be needing to use this tactic or bother with it in the first place if we could just use blood rush and weeping wounds on our exulted weapons and they could build combo on the wave exulted and it's stupid we still can't as nowadays even a regular melee can compete with the exulted melee and they NEED to be powerful for us to bother with them.

tl;dr DE needs to stop nerfing things based on usage without understanding why people are using it and actually try and understand why they're used and if it's actually bad for the game before taking action, if something is used a lot it doesn't neccesarily mean it's overtuned, it can just mean it's FUN and people LIKE IT so they USE IT. and panicing and releasing a nerf that not only doesn't accomplish any of the stated intentions but demorilizes the community can only make it worse

as for solutions for DE to not repeat the same mistake, YOU LITERALLY HAVE A PARTNER DISCORD YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS IN, if you have a cool idea for a weapon you can just ask your partners if that seems op or what they would do with it, and if you don't like the answer don't #*!%ing release it in the first place. and if you already released it and you see it's used a lot, ASK WHY and understand if it really needs a nerf.

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

I think you're exaggerating, the infinite combo will always be there just won't work with abilities. Yeah it kinda sucks but it won't kill the weapon nor will it kill those specific warframes that benefited from the infinite combo

Im not exagerating. Why would you use xoris? Theres alot of better weapons so taking away this ability will make this weapon useless. I would rather use stronger weapons. This is the only reason to use this weapon and they are removing it.

 

23 minutes ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

I think you're exaggerating, the infinite combo will always be there just won't work with abilities. Yeah it kinda sucks but it won't kill the weapon nor will it kill those specific warframes that benefited from the infinite combo

 

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*sigh* Xoris is now a useless mastery fodder weapon (after you've farmed the garum void of course) 

Look guys the Xoris isn't doing any new powerful meta stuff, you have not taken into account that these meta synergies have existed for a very long time all that Xoris does is make it more convenient. If you really want to talk about something that actually directly influences the damage of warframe exalted abilities what about stat stick rivens? (jaw sword, mire, skana etc) why does this minor convenience weapon need to be nerfed when there are rivens that directly affect the damage output of these abilities. 

 

Warframe, guys seriously please please please take a step back and re-think your options. 

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The reasons might not be all right, but i agree with the nerf, big builds need at least a price to pay, even if it is through usage inconvinince.

I don't want hard mode to be easily cheesable.

 

Also i won't make the weapon unusable, it can still be used with Zenurik and other frames.

Edited by Silvertap
Complementing other post, not changing the text
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The Xoris is not overpowered and does not limit player choice, it does not trivialize any content. Usage stats do not equate to reasons for nerfs and buffs. I know the devs want people to spend more time in Warframe, and I'm proposing that if they let things be more powerful or flexible, or even just convenient then people would play more. Let's think about the bigger picture here, why is the Xoris so popular? It has synergy with warframe powers that use combo which can be very good. Are any of those powers overpowered with the best build? I'd say no, people used them effectively before and this is just more convenient. The Xoris has a niche in that aspect, like the venka does as well. More choice for players to play the game how they want is good I'd say, so let people use this if they want. I'd say more niche things like this would actually be better for the game.

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28 minutes ago, TomZDooM said:

This is the most bullS#&$ decision I've seen DE making for a looong ass time. Brozime said it well.

Let's hope this gets through to DE. He did a really nice job just showcasing it and explaining the underlying mechanics so that no one needs to get bogged down arguing as if it's just an opinion. They still need to fix interaction between Primary/Secundary/Melee modding & exalted counterparts. And they still need to get rid of the obtrusive thing that stat sticks are. Neither of those has anything to do with Xoris.

Ironically, once they do, Xoris will still be a has-been.

Edited by Koalachan
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1 minute ago, Silvertap said:

Also, his angry is very telling that xoris wasn't as irrelevant as he says.

the point was not that it was irrelevant but it was convenient and not op(like the nerf-notes say)


It's the same case like with catchmoon and it will probably end the same way.

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Just stop. It does not restrict player's choice, I have a riven for the Prova, one of the many god awful weapons YOU WILL NEVER LOOK INTO IT - obviously - that makes it considerably more powerful than my Xoris. Not to mention ever since you gutted CP anyway and any aura mod will do, Swift Momentum was a great choice on all these frames already, not to mention Naramon. All the Xoris did was allow us TO HAVE MORE OPTIONS (imagine that) when it comes to focus schools AND aura mods. It was never the best option and it never will be, it was just a nice thing that makes so I can actually use Steel Charge, Enemy Radar, Energy Siphon or any of the other aura mods or focus schools I'd like.

 

This is NON-SENSICAL. Stop nerfing everything that we find use for. Do you REALLY want to give your competition MORE INCENTIVES to play them instead of you? Your community has long lost it's good will and benefit of the doubt towards you and YOU KNOW THAT, the partner program more than reflects that.

 

Don't do it, you look like autistic people, and I don't mean it in the 'hahaha so funny ur autist' 4chan linguo, You seem to be INCAPABLE of relating to other human beings and how they feel. Would already be a great lost to all the Khora, Ash and Atlas players out there, but it will be an ever bigger punch to the face after they invested forma. Do you not see how is this a problem?

 

Edited by Fujiwuji
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All that Xoris does is remove the need to melee to keep the combo up. Xoris rivens have a 0.5 dispo so the overall damage potential is nothing compared to using an amphis, mire etc stat stick rivens with a 5/5 dispo which stats directly influence warframe damage. Examples like khora whip. 

All I'm saying is, why remove a weapon feature that makes this build convenient when there are other melee options that are incredibly more overpowered for dealing with content in hard mode. 

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22 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice. This was our oversight, our mistake, and we apologize for the time it took to formulate a plan and address this.

You should know by know that these statements are factually wrong. An infinite combo counter does not increase any damage output. How could it? Think about it, how can a timer - that became infinite - increase damage? The only thing the Xoris changed was that players don't have to constantly refresh it every 30 secs or so. It's a pure quality of life improvement while at the same time decreasing the actual damage output. That is because there are way better melee weapons which have much higher damage output (literally all weapons with a low riven dispo, that's like 90% of them).

Also "restrictive in terms of player choice" sounds a lot like "how dare you to do that without buying a 10k plat riven first?". Because that's the choice the Xoris gave us. The only thing that's restricting player choice is this proposed "fix".

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I started playing this game just under two weeks ago and have been having an absolute blast with a large portion of the gameplay, and the excitement of putting together a new frame and playing around with it the first time is awesome. I literally finished building Khora yesterday after grinding Sanctuary Onslaught (which, by the way, is probably my least favorite mode in the game) and had been looking around to see what people were doing and building her for, but all I saw was her sitting in a corridor next to a Nekros pressing 4 and shooting stuff. Aside from the occasional 2 to bring stuff together so that a DIFFERENT frame could have fun blowing stuff up, I saw little variation in her use. Eventually I saw "Xoris Khora" and thought, 'wait what? Is that like an Umbra Excal for Khora?' and clicked on the video to see someone ACTUALLY using their 1 to kill stuff other than to just rattle some chains. I got excited again because it would make her so much more rewarding to play and use her abilities than to JUST squat in a cage somewhere begging to the RNG gods for more Orokin cells. I made two builds, cage and whip, dedicating a few forma (which is REALLY expensive for me right now) to the frame and Xoris (which no matter how I use it just feels so much sh****** than literally any sword, kama, or hammer) and got out to actually use the frame and honestly, Khora is just a serious bore to play without Xoris simply because you aren't rewarded for doing anything other subscribing to a hermit playstyle. Maybe it's because I'm a new player and don't have access to a large majority of the weapons/mods and such but she just doesn't make sense to me other than to farm. I can't speak for the other frames on the list in the OP, I feel like restricting players from playing a certain way when you made it easy to get a half of it and an absolutely disgusting time investment for the other half is just downright wrong. If Ember, Seryn, Mesa, and probably a lot more can clear a room with one or two button presses, why stop another frame which takes even longer to get from having the one or two ways to compete with them in that aspect? Rather than nerf one strong thing and leave a dozen others to completely dominate the game, why not give some other frames a chance by leaving that key there for them and use it as a mold to make better, more interesting options for the weaker frames later on? As is stands, there are frames that can do and excel at most of the game, easily at that, while others are stuck in limbo (haha) of one trick ponies IF EVEN that. When have you seen a Wisp in a mission and thought "Why are they here?" while Grendel and Nyx practically don't exist. I don't know, maybe I don't know anything at all and should just get some sleep, but I really wish games would stop trying to force players to play a certain way and let them do what they want. Hell, I don't even know if there's PvP in this game, and if there isn't, then why does it matter?

TLDR: I don't get why you nerf one thing that makes certain frames fun and rewarding, when there are still other frames which already do the thing better with less. Buff the weak to compete with the strong.

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Finally uninstalled this game.This situation has been going on for way too long for me, and i bet you who reads this could not give less of a #*!% that i uninstalled it but i want you to get this straight.

It's been too much, and i don't think i am the only one thinking this,judging by the replies.

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this literally solves nothing and only serves to make the xoris useless

 

just say you want people to keep paying for rivens

 

"restricting player choice" the choice i had before was to get an exalted build without sinking 10k plat now i absolutely have to get a riven again

 

this supposed fix limits options so it doesnt even fix what you set out to do

 

seriously DE if youre gonna "fix weapons" like this at least be nice and refund the forma and catalyst

Edited by Zapats
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You know what i find comedic? People praising DE for objectively poor nerfs. People actively praised them when they ruined the catchmoon. You know whats the most screwed up part about all of this? They nerf weapons people have invested in and give them no refunds, yet won't fix the hemas built cost BECAUSE PEOPLE INVESTED IN IT. Contradiction. Oh also if you're going to nerf the xoris fix rivens working with stat sticks, you won't because you're absolute cowards. 

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23 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Greetings, Tenno!

Within The Deadlock Protocol Quest brought the Xoris: a Glaive weapon capable of chaining Melee Combos infinitely. The design intention behind the infinite combo mechanic was predominantly added for the Granum Void’s charged throw moments, to allow you to retain your charges until you were ready. This mechanic opened up new avenues for Melee builds to maximize this infinite Melee Combo Duration, which is great! 

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice. This was our oversight, our mistake, and we apologize for the time it took to formulate a plan and address this. So let’s break down our plans:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved, or the Mods that amplify the issue (Blood Rush / Weeping Wounds / Gladiator Mod Set), as doing so isn’t fair as it’s a reaction to a single weapon. In turn, we have planned to only change the interactions with the Xoris directly. 

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack, or if you die. Thus scaling with Warframe Abilities that are amplified by your Melee Combo multiplier (Ash Blade Storm, Atlas Landslide, and Khora Whipclaw), and even more so when equipped with Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds.

The second issue: The interaction with the Xoris and Gladiator Mod Set for Warframe Exalted weapons. The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe weapons such as Baruuk’s Serene Storm, Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, Valkyr’s Talons and Wukong’s Iron Staff.

The solution: The change coming with The Steel Path Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons reset the Melee Combo Counter ONLY if the Xoris is being used. What you’ll see now is the Critical Chance bonus applying to the first hit on abilities that are intended to scale with regular Melee Combo Multiplier, but then the Melee Combo is reset by the Ability, and does not apply to subsequent hits unless you build it up again with Xoris itself. Exalted Melee ultimates will reset the Xoris' Melee Combo Counter at the time of cast. As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole. 

In conclusion, Warframe Abilities / Exalted Warframe weapons affected by this are:

  • Ash Bladestorm
  • Atlas Landslide
  • Baruuk Serene Storm
  • Excalibur Exalted Blade
  • Khora Whipclaw
  • Valkyr Talons
  • Wukong Iron Staff

 

Special note: Gara’s Shattered Lash will now scale with Melee Combo Counter, to be consistent with Khora Whipclaw and Atlas Landslide. The same Xoris restriction will still apply.

TLDR: Certain Warframe Abilities and Exalted weapons will reset the Melee Combo Counter only if the Xoris is being used.

We’ll be continuing to observe how the Xoris interacts with the above when The Steel Path Update arrives in your hands, and our apologies again for the wait. 

Thank you!

ok, can i have my formas and catalyst back?

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22 hours ago, TwistedBOLT_ said:

What the xoris did: Allowed you to go not naramon or Swift momentum.
What it didn't do: Increase your damage. It just makes gameplay less clunky.
The balance for the thing came from the fact that you were unable to use good riven mods as the dispo is and should have stayed bad instead of nerfing the weapon itself.

The true fix should have been to simply make exalted weapons to scale with their own combo instead of the gladiator set buffing your exalted weapon by reading your normal melees combo.

But oh well, I can't say I didn't see it coming.

Just this and sadly too many people don't see through the nonsense posted here. There is no power increase from using the xoris, just convenience. See brozime's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SlKS9RtIJk

 

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Please DE, the Xoris does NOT „directly amplify the damage of Warframe abilities“. All it does is remove the need to struggle to keep your combo up. Any other weapon can achieve the damage amplifier the Xoris can, just not as conveniently. This change will make it literal garbage, because it will be worse than any other weapon when used with exalted abilities. 
I understand that you don‘t want high damage numbers to be easily achievable because of the upcoming Steel Path, but i highly recommend you review this nerf.

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The player base would greatly appreciate,if you would stop this hypocritical knee-jerk reactions to "powerful" things DE.

A lot of players are getting sick of giving you the benefit of the doubt.The nice guy"We are only human" image can only last you so long.

Pull up from the nose dive

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