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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


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I think the nerf is justice but it shouldn't of been as harsh as it was.

 

Instead of losing all the combo in the first ability you should lose say 2x combo. So if you are at 12x combo, you are now at 10x and 8x etc.

This means you still can use the Xoris well, and keep the fact that you can't build up combo with abilities means you would have to balance using the Xoris and abilities. This would've been fair and not as harsh for using an ability. Idk my opinion, this means you slowly lose small amounts damage compared to all of your built up combo.

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13 минут назад, DoveCannon сказал:

27.5.4 - 28.0.7

Garuda's Talons are still unaffected by Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds, and the Gladiator set bonus. All of these are still equippable with no effect or set effect.

Exalted melee weapons are still unaffected by the Gladiator set bonus. These set mods are still equippable with no set effect.

 

and this is bullsht. -____-   

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4 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Giving the Xoris combo duration kills the intended design for the Granum Void, which in turn affects The Deadlock Protocol quest. The idea of an infinite combo duration weapon opens the door for some cool builds, but we don't want the Xoris to be the only way to play.

Then remove combo duration entirely. That's literally why the Xoris was used in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, Kylo. said:

In what alternate universe have you been the past 5 years?

One in which you can hold LMB to effortlessly delete any enemies within any content worth playing while also being effectively invincible? Jeez, dunno.

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Posted (edited)

I can understand the nerf for actual exalted melees, the interaction is pretty strong there (although one could argue that exalted melees desperately need something of that sort right now. Aside from Serene Storm, they're really nothing stellar)

However.

It is absolutely unwarranted for abilities like landslide and whipclaw. Xoris isn't the best option for them. A rivened high disposition weapon, or at the very least one with a damage improving augment, is always the better option. All that Xoris offered there was convenience.

The limitation of choice caused by Xoris is really an illusion here. For abilities, the choice is already limited by more impactful reason. In actuality Xoris was an expansion of choice by offering a weaker, but still compelling from a QoL perspective alternative. For exalted weapons, their whole thing is replacing your existing weapon, already rendering its choice meaningless all on their own.

Edited by vFlitz
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I think this is rather excesive, let alone innefective given how Corrupt Charge exists and will likely conflict with the script managing this interaction. How about making the exalted/ability consume 1 combo stack per hit/cast? this way the player would enjoy the huge power spike it provides for a very short while but still be able to manage their playstile if desired.

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So as far as I can tell, this means if I have a 12x combo, and punch something once with atlas, that goes away??

If so, I do not like this. I'm not a heavy melee user. I don't like it very much. But it has utility, and punching stuff can be fun (as an example). So, if I want to get some quick invulnerability, I want to apply a lot of dmg quickly because guns just aren't as strong, sadly, etc. I can end up losing my entire combo. And the main reason I do is the way the Xoris interacts with these abilities not making a lot of sense. That's not a great solution, IMO.

What would make more sense is to apply the same rules to the 1st ability melees as what was intended for exalted abilities: blood rush and gladiator combo+crit chance scaling just doesn't work. So, if I punch a couple times, I don't lose my combo I worked hard to build up for my "just in case" situations, but I don't get a massive payoff on the frame power cause of some weird mechanic. If this is "too much" of a nerf, then consider making these mods apply to frame abilities at a fixed rate or ratio, for example, 25% effectiveness (100% CC becomes 25%CC), or just "always the base rate * 2", etc. 

Something like that would solve the "xoris is always the answer if you're using a frame with melee abilities", wouldn't punish someone for throwing a punch or two in their mission by requiring them to rebuild an entire combo, and I think overall would be better for the game. 

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I think the issue here runs a bit deeper than the Xoris, and what happened is that the Xoris has just put it in a prominent display...
The Heavy attack should NOT be charging with combos... Not the way its implemented right now... Because nothing is funnier than charging up your weapon, only for there to be a shortage of enemies, and by bye heavy attacks.

I'd suggest, sure use the combo counter to charge it, but keep the charge until spent with heavy attacks. Separate Charge from the combo counter in terms of decay and numbers. The promiscuity between systems then forces these weird exceptions as announced here... All because its inherently bad design for mixing these two.
Also it forces weird choices, because in most cases because of blood rush players won't want to use heavy attacks most of the time, its just limiting in all aspects of the game, from the development of new weapons to the players choice.

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16 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Probably not as you need to get the Riven first, while this weapon was handed out to everyone. There is still a lot of RNG involved to get that setup.

This literally does not matter in any sort of capacity. DE has stated from day 1 of Rivens that they would not impact Warframes or Warframe abilities in any way, with special mention given to Exalted weapons. All I'm asking for is a bit of consistency and the complete and total annihilation of Rivens, but that will come later.

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9 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

It's our mistake that the infinite combo resulted in these scenarios, and I understand why there is frustration around it. As said above, we didn't want to make an overwhelming nerf to Warframe abilities/Exalted weapons across the board, so we decided to only change the interaction with Xoris directly. 

Or, instead of removing the WHOLE combo counter, make the affected abilities act as heavy attacks, so we can mitigate it with combo efficiency.

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6 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Giving the Xoris combo duration kills the intended design for the Granum Void, which in turn affects The Deadlock Protocol quest. The idea of an infinite combo duration weapon opens the door for some cool builds, but we don't want the Xoris to be the only way to play.

Are there thoughts on having multiple options in the future for infinite combo duration weapons? For many it seemed to open up a very fun and engaging avenue of play style with several Warframes.

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3 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

One in which you can hold LMB to effortlessly delete any enemies within any content worth playing while also being effectively invincible? Jeez, dunno.

Like Mag and Saryn except Mesa needs LoS?

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Posted (edited)

Khora main here. I'm perfectly OK with this as this is limited to just one weapon and changes nothing about how I build Khora around my Zaw.

I'm actually kinda puzzled about the number of players who seem to think this is a new thing. I guess they only use Zenurik and don't even know Naramon exists. 

Which takes me to:

33 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others

Then please do something about Zenurik, or buff the other 4 schools. Look at your data. You know just how much more usage it gets vs. all other Focus Schools.

Edited by Jarriaga
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I have to note, gladiator set effects also work for diwata and diwata prime, and while in razorwing, your regular melee combo doesn't decay (not just xoris), shame that diwata is fairly powerless, even with a fully stacked gladiator, but that's beside the point.

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Just now, Malziel said:

This literally does not matter in any sort of capacity. DE has stated from day 1 of Rivens that they would not impact Warframes or Warframe abilities in any way, with special mention given to Exalted weapons. All I'm asking for is a bit of consistency and the complete and total annihilation of Rivens, but that will come later.

Add it to the docket. It's not a perfect answer I grant you that however look at how they have been setting criteria for conducting adjustments and then consider my statement on how it was literally handed out to everyone. Some things are easier to fix than others, and the way Rivens work at the moment in conjunction with damage systems is not an easy fix.

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Posted (edited)

So, the Xoris is now the worst weapon instead of one of the better weapons as a stat stick because it can't build/maintain combo at all if you use the affected abilities (and you usually use them quite frequently)? Gotcha. Another gimmicky Glaive it shall be. Saw a change coming from a mile away, but not this one. Back to the usual suspects.

Confused Jim Carrey GIF

Edited by (PS4)Deeceem
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To the people moaning about that nerf.. why? It was obviously going to happen eventually, people must have realised that. Those who are complaining about their formas, you did it of your own volition, you were not forced and you should have known better.

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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Khora main here. I'm perfectly OK with this as this is limited to just one weapon and changes nothing about who I build Khora around my Zaw.

I'm actually kinda puzzled about the number of players who seem to think this is a new think. I guess they only use Zenurik and don't even know Naramon exists. 

Which takes me to:

Then please do something about Zenurik, or buff the other 4 schools. Look at your data. You know just how much more usage it gets vs. all other Focus Schools.

Better hang onto your Naramon then, word in the rumor mill is Focus is getting a revisit. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Mostly because they are turning a blind eye to stat sticks at the moment. 

Clearly not when Xoris gets nerfhammered to the ground when people where having fun. I think the suggestion with limiting the max combo count it has a bit lower would be a better band-aid, but the root problem is not Xoris, it's warframe ability kits not being optimized so you can use all abilities regularly if it wasn't designed to be. Nidus is a perfect example of it done right. Ash is one that was done wrong. I can only speak from experience here though.

 

Ash builds for some stealth duration, and either for shuriken armor stripping because augment, or blade storm, also because augment, and they aren't compatible without compromise, and that headache just sucks, because double augment strips stats...abilities need different stats. Sometimes in such different margins that jack of all trades just fall short, but specializing gets boring as tar when you just use 1-2 abilities, rarely a 3rd and never the last one for any serious reason.

 

Xoris allowed me to use blade storm more, it was fun, not overpowered. Xoris itself isn't wildly strong as a weapon, other weapons can pump out much more damage, and you could just do that and be a room-blender instead of...I don't know, using a warframe a bility because you have them to use them, yes?

 

The only exalted stat-stick attacks that are good is Gara's. Was QOL for the rest. 😕

Edited by Geraion
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Oh great, see what complaining got us? Now every one of them is getting a function removed and they’re even looking into the Gladiator set as well!

Sorry, DE, but it has to be said; Exalted Melee is literally one of the worst melee types to use right now because of all the things that don’t affect them. Unless you’re planning on buffing them more, you can’t just take away one of the only scaling functions that they have. Unlike regular melee these have a Drain cost to them, as well as worse modding options, when the additional cost should make them better performers than their counterparts.

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1 minute ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Better hang onto your Naramon then, word in the rumor mill is Focus is getting a revisit. 

About time. Whatever they do, I just hope that it's not Zenurik vs. everything else again.

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