Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Dariel]

ok... this is just disappointing...
... and I don't even use xoris as a QOL stat stick...

DE, do you even play your own game? QOL popularity is not the same as OP popularity...
Lets nerf all credit cards so you have to go to ATM and withdraw cash again. Credits cards are just too popular QOL upgrades these days

[BladeZerker]

19 hours ago, Cerikus said:

It was convenience for an experienced player, but some youtubers and streamers sold it as the "Solution to everyting" which hindered the balance. I understand why they nerf it.

Glaives as a melee are worth using, if you like the way they work and xoris will continue to be usable.

Using Xoris as a stat stick is NOT using glaive as a weapon.

Nerfing helps to prevent minmaxing fun out of the game. We can be glad, that DE nerf and prevent it.

I have taken a break from Warframe for some time not so long ago and I recommend it if you are frustrated. I hope you will return tho 😉

Just emphasizes my point further.

1. It was a convenience to NOT have to rely on Naramon as a crutch because the game suddenly ran out of enemies. The Xoris compared to other weapons is lackluster and lacks the room and wave clear. It was however viable to be used in conjuction with exalted abilites. I like the way glaives work and combo, I just wouldn't rely on them when there are superior options available such as zaws, greatswords, etc etc.

2. I was NOT using it as a stat stick, more like an all-round slot filler; it gave me the style of using both melee and gun, the Xoris looks sick when wielded and it changed how Khora for example held the one-handed pistol which allowed me to see more of the actual firing instead of the camera and shoulderpad blocking the pistol. (I use Vetala shoulder plates)

Also, using OTHER weapons as stat-sticks is OK then?

It also allowed me to use zenurik in-case I messed up (combo efficiency without having to waste a mod slot for it), which essentially provided me with a energy regen passive, a bolt of lightning for CC and a vacuum for enemies.

3. Nerfing, in more cases than others has served no purpose other than remove viable options, such as the needless Excalibur nerf, the vaccum nerf, the complete decimation of the Arca Plasmor and the cringe way they tried to justify it on stream etc. Not all users min-max. Even if they do, it doesn't affect me in any way. I don't play the way others play anyway. And them min-maxing and being efficient is a lot better than not.

4. DE not having the foresight and ability to comprehend why this is a useless nerf and serves 0 purpose other than creating a roundabout way of utilizing a unique weapon that gave us as players options rather than nudging us towards high-end stat-stick for damage-lacking exalted abilities just shows how out of touch they are and that they don't play their own game.

5. I am not frustrated despite the tone of this post. I truly don't understand why they don't invest time in making the AI smarter, better equipped instead of just resorting to these cheap, vanilla Diablo III-style way of balancing. It seems so counter-intuitive and it's both lazy and needlessly complicated.

[(PSN)ChampBeat]

Can I have my forma back at least lol

[Electric.Sheep]

1 hour ago, KelkSwiftlan said:

The Xoris didn't exactly made exalted weapons put out "overwhelming" damage output. High-dispo melee's with God-rolled rivens do. Incorrect statement basically.

 

Again, this is a lie. I choose, "CHOOSE" to use the Xoris over other meta statstick melee of choice because I wanted flexibility. I. WANTED. FLEXIBILITY. 

 

In addition to my earlier post, there are some more you can do instead of nerfing the crap out of Xoris, a glaive weapons, GLAIE weapons that are basically unused aside from mastery fodder.

1. Boost exalted weapons damage output. They are EXALTED weapons, and they're outdamaged by REGULAR weapons.

2. Allow exalted weapons full use of all mods. Bloodrush, Weeping Wounds, Gladiator set mods, etc.

3. Give exalted weapons infinite combo duration. Or initial combo count.

 

I agree with Brozime's statement that this is another knee-jerk reaction and a failure on DE to understand their players. Like how Venari's healing stance got nerfed due to an "accidental" "oversight".

hey thanks for saving the trouble of having to post this myself. here's a bump tho, in the very off chance the people who designed the game but don't play it, see it and actually approach its content objectively

[(PSN)nerdlegend]

I don't understand this change, given how exalted weapons work with rivens and focus schools. Xoris just stops us from having riven exclusive build with combo timers to keep track of. Xoris was QoL convenience, gave less damage compared to everything else.  Nothing new going on, so need to nerf rivens having any impact or change combo how it works. Also need review what mods are can be used on exalted weapons. 

Whole change looks well terrible. 

This change should not go ahead at all 

[Zantum]

Do not go through with this nerf on the Zoris. The gimmick can be literally translated into Naramon's combo passive and the Xoris isn't even that powerful to begin with. The post is full of misinformation about what the Xoris actually does. Do not knee jerk nerf the Xoris for a minor convenience gimmick DE. 

[Silvertap]

1 hour ago, vegetosayajin said:

the point was not that it was irrelevant but it was convenient and not op(like the nerf-notes say)


It's the same case like with catchmoon and it will probably end the same way.

Okay, but that is also the point, xoris interaction with the abilities made the already OP abilities convenient, it by it self is HUGE. That is the problem, that is the thing that should be adressed to DE, u can have an OP build, but it must have a price to pay.

[Dyonivan]

2 minutes ago, Silvertap said:

u can have an OP build, but it must have a price to pay.

Nonsense. If that were actually the case, we'd need to Cancel Arcane Energize, Zenurik, Limbo, Saryn, Gara, Octavia, melee in general and a whole horde of convenient OP stuff already in the game.

[Zantum]

2 minutes ago, Silvertap said:

Okay, but that is also the point, xoris interaction with the abilities made the already OP abilities convenient, it by it self is HUGE. That is the problem, that is the thing that should be adressed to DE, u can have an OP build, but it must have a price to pay.

What price? All the Xoris was good for was an infinite combo duration gimmick. It literally replaces Naramon's combo passive which everyone used for frames with exalted weapons anyway, if not +duration mods like Body Count. The Xoris did average damage, it's a weapon of convenience that isn't even the best.

[ZeJagd-Xero]

I mean, why the heck not! You guies have been doing this for a while now. Players start enjoying one thing, BAM, NURF THIS S#&$!

[osairas]

Pls kill the Xoris, so i can delete from inventory. it is worthless w/o the unique no-combo-decay mechanic for pseudo-exalted anyways. You will be save me ton of forma and an inventory slot 🙂 For other people who already spend forma on it maybe refund forma or wtv lol.

[anikaiful]

On 2020-07-01 at 6:58 PM, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

R.I.P., and good riddance 😄

[Silvertap]

2 minutes ago, Dyonivan said:

Nonsense. If that were actually the case, we'd need to Cancel Arcane Energize, Zenurik, Limbo, Saryn, Gara, Octavia, melee in general and a whole horde of convenient OP stuff already in the game.

Well, have u saw how people have been doing Hard Mode? It is a small change, but will have great impact in hard mode, i think. Also we have convenient things in game, and it is already a huge problem, yes.

1 minute ago, Zantum said:

What price? All the Xoris was good for was an infinite combo duration gimmick. It literally replaces Naramon's combo passive which everyone used for frames with exalted weapons anyway, if not +duration mods like Body Count. The Xoris did average damage, it's a weapon of convenience that isn't even the best.

The damage was not nerfed, but the convenience was, otherwise there is no point in been angry, or complain about the nerf. The convenience for too strong builds should be avoided, we already have to much overpower in game, if it could make this overpower not so simple to be used, in my aponion, it would already be a big improvment...

[Silvertap]

2 minutes ago, Dyonivan said:

Nonsense. If that were actually the case, we'd need to Cancel Arcane Energize, Zenurik, Limbo, Saryn, Gara, Octavia, melee in general and a whole horde of convenient OP stuff already in the game.

Well, have u saw how people have been doing Hard Mode? It is a small change, but will have great impact in hard mode, i think. Also we have convenient things in game, and it is already a huge problem, yes.

1 minute ago, Zantum said:

What price? All the Xoris was good for was an infinite combo duration gimmick. It literally replaces Naramon's combo passive which everyone used for frames with exalted weapons anyway, if not +duration mods like Body Count. The Xoris did average damage, it's a weapon of convenience that isn't even the best.

The damage was not nerfed, but the convenience was, otherwise there is no point in been angry, or complain about the nerf. The convenience for too strong builds should be avoided, we already have to much overpower in game, if it could make this overpower not so simple to be used, in my aponion, it would already be a big improvment...

[(PSN)ironfist_94]

Just a couple of opinions from credible people within the community. Why is DE allergic to logic? Genuine question. You have a brilliant community full of passionate people who have great ideas. Criticism is healthy for any work of art and the Devs narcissism is destroying this game. To be clear, this not a big deal, however, it is a slippery slope and a perfect example of the disconnect between the community and the very gameplay they designed. It's up to you guys, the players, to speak up against this type of nonsense or we'll continue downward spiral that is WF atm.

[alenkiss]

How about you fix the true issues here instead of throwing a band-aid?

• make pseudo exalted weapons into proper exalted weapons with its own mods slots and consequently not being affect by stat stick passives and rivens,
• make set mods equipped on pet weapons not affect the warframe weapons/abilities unless specifically designed to,
• make exalted/psuedo exalted weapons unaffected by set mods equipped in the regular weapons or their passives.

[Jarriaga]

2 hours ago, TheOneFromAnotherPlace said:

Now even if you think that everything I just said was stupid and that Khora still does too much damage, consider this. On these khora setups, Which a player capable of achieving probably has hundreds of hours invested into the game, the xoris version will deal less overall damage than a rivened stat stick using naramon. The xoris was a quality of life choice that traded some damage to not worry about combo meter at all. I'd speculate the people who already had high end stat sticks setups didn't switch to the Xoris. So at worst it allowed the player to skip/put off the naramon focus grind and get a little extra convenience earlier than otherwise. Nerfing the Xoris interaction does not address the "overwhelming damage output" by the pseudo-exalted abilities, the explicitly stated reason for the nerf. This level of damage could be achieved through different means that have existed significantly prior to the Xoris. While I understand that overhauling the pseudo-exalted abilities by making them directly moddable or otherwise would likely require much more development time this is pretty clearly a reactionary, bandaid nerf as opposed to an actual fix of the problem that's supposedly being addressed.

If the nerf had instead read something like "we're disabling the Xoris interaction so people don't invest in it while we look at overhauling these abilities" it would seem a lot less like a knee jerk no fun nerf than this which doesn't address their stated contention and only adds what will become an obscure, specific interaction that isn't inherently obvious.

 

You missed the point, although I should have worded it better. I meant that such broken builds are at least somewhat limited by the investment tied to them: Naramon and/or Combo duration mods/Aura. People don't like to micro-manage in WF. Most complaints about Gauss and the Ember reworked are about micro-management, with combo duration scaling being no different.

But this in turn amplifies why Xoris is so desirable: It pushes such builds even more by virtue of making them extremely convenient to use by not having to invest the tiniest amount in combo duration and instead use:

- Steel Charge over Swift Momentum.

- Zenurik over Naramon (Infinite energy).

- Another damage mod over Drifting Contact/Body Count.

Xoris is QoL, but it's the kind of QoL that is so desirable that it stands out even within the context of it being a new weapon and beyond the damage sacrifice.

Xoris didn't make those builds possible, it just made them so much more convenient and easy to do that it resulted in a push towards such builds because people like easy + powerful builds. They are better with other weapons and stat sticks other than Xoris. The difference here being that historically, any build that is shown to be cheese-easy effective by content creators is then replicated to no end by people who think that it's a new build or the best choice. This further pushes usage, artificially or not. The rest had existed before, so why weren't those powerful builds that common before? What is new? Xoris. That's the outlier.

What they should have done if the problem was damage was to remove Rivens from being considered in the damage calculation. They didn't do that. So the optics are now on the wrong place by people believing that DE don't know their game by using the statement you highlighted as being objectively false, which you are right to point out but besides the point: It's not about the damage per se; it's about the number of people getting into said damage ballparks now thanks to the Xoris. DE could have worded it better. Instead of saying that it's because of the damage facilitated by Xoris, they should have said that it's because of how easy it is to push these builds without any drawback beyond doing less damage, which is not a problem for anyone who isn't an endurance runner.

DE don't like it when people flock to one thing. Catchmoon. Kuva Bramma. Xoris. The next thing afterward. What takes the hit is the new thing as that is the outlier. This was easy to predict.

[-CM-Darkvamper]

Seriously? Statsticks have been a thing since there were warframes that used them. And the Xoris isn't a particularly good statstick either. Venka prime has a 14x multiplier compared to a 12x multiplier on the xoris. It literally is 16.66 % stronger than the Xoris. Now I'm no masters degree in mathematics, but I'm pretty sure a 1.16 multiplier on all damage output is significant.
I'm not quick to be annoyed by something, but if you disrespect the community by just straight up lying, or not even trying to do the math (which would arguably be worse as the people who balance the game), then I'm annoyed and disappointed in you, DE.
I don't post quickly or often here. I'm not even someone who uses the Xoris for this build. But what you're going to do here is both misguided and disingenuous, and I won't stand for it. I was actually looking forward to the steel path, as some genuine content for a late game player like me, after both the screw up of railjack and liches over the past half year. But if this is how you plan to introduce it, I'm done.
If this is in the patch notes on the steel path release, I'm out once more. I'll probably check back in a few years, or maybe I won't, this time. I guess we'll find out.
But nerfing something because it makes a part of warframe more fun to play, not better DPS-wise, just genuinely more fun, that's not a healthy development attitude. Not ever.

[Dyonivan]

2 minutes ago, alenkiss said:

How about you fix the true issues here instead of throwing a band-aid?

• make pseudo exalted weapons into proper exalted weapons with its own mods slots and consequently not being affect by stat stick passives and rivens,
• make set mods equipped on pet weapons not affect the warframe weapons/abilities unless specifically designed to,
• make exalted/psuedo exalted weapons unaffected by set mods equipped in the regular weapons or their passives.

All of these are far better solutions than breaking the Xoris. I'd add to these to allow exalted weapons (all of them) equip Acolyte mods and Set mods so they can keep pace with non-exalted weapons.

[Jarriaga]

6 minutes ago, -CM-Darkvamper said:

Seriously? Statsticks have been a thing since there were warframes that used them. And the Xoris isn't a particularly good statstick either. Venka prime has a 14x multiplier compared to a 12x multiplier on the xoris. It literally is 16.66 % stronger than the Xoris. Now I'm no masters degree in mathematics, but I'm pretty sure a 1.16 multiplier on all damage output is significant.
I'm not quick to be annoyed by something, but if you disrespect the community by just straight up lying, or not even trying to do the math (which would arguably be worse as the people who balance the game), then I'm annoyed and disappointed in you, DE.
I don't post quickly or often here. I'm not even someone who uses the Xoris for this build. But what you're going to do here is both misguided and disingenuous, and I won't stand for it. I was actually looking forward to the steel path, as some genuine content for a late game player like me, after both the screw up of railjack and liches over the past half year. But if this is how you plan to introduce it, I'm done.
If this is in the patch notes on the steel path release, I'm out once more. I'll probably check back in a few years, or maybe I won't, this time. I guess we'll find out.
But nerfing something because it makes a part of warframe more fun to play, not better DPS-wise, just genuinely more fun, that's not a healthy development attitude. Not ever.

Venka doesn't let you keep your combo counter while you go prepare a sandwich.

Xoris's degree and level of convenience is leagues ahead any other trait any other weapon may have or bring for people other than endurance runners who need the damage hours in. It was making those builds extremely accessible with little to no investment. That is a problem. DE just failed at wording it correctly.

[_Fadespell_]

On 2020-07-01 at 11:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ 

1) The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities

2) The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe 

Takes a lot to get a lurker and occassional visitor like me posting. While I think I can see what DE is thinking, I must say their phrasing is very worrying.
There were/are memes that DE acts as if it doesn't know or isn't aware of how their game works, and the phrasing in this post (sad to say) goes some way into proving the point.

To adress point 1),
-It is the Combo Multiplier that amplifies damage.
-The Xoris' Combo Duration adds a lot of convenience.
-Riven mods, with the disposition for equipped melee weapon affect some warframe abilities.

To address point 2),
-Exalted weapons have a max of 60 mod capacity, where normal weapons have a max of 74 mod capacity.
-Exalted weapons cannot use equip Bloodrush or Weeping Wounds.
-Though to be fair and play Devil's Advocate, Power Strength affects Exalted Weapons.
-Will Venka Prime's extra Combo Multiplier be removed from Warframe Abilities?

'Xoris or you're doing it wrong'. I would contend that there are multiple options.
-Amphis Riven Stat stick
-Kogake Prime (passive speed buff) with or without a riven
-Telos Boltace (passive bullet jump buff)
-Venka Prime (thus far, it has a higher dispo than then xoris)
-Xoris
-Gladiator Rush + Naramon to preserve combo counter

However if the use of an infinite combo duration with well established in game synergies was so offensive, I am left wondering why
-DE made the weapon which such a mechanic so readilly available 
-DE didn't make the infinite combo duration apply only within the Granum Void
-DE didn't just give all Warframe Abilities their own separate combo duration

Now this is where I start putting on my tin foil hat. If (emphasizing again), IF there is an outcry from some portion of the community, complaining that something is too OP, then I suggest that DE finds a better balance between a vocal somewhat uninformed minority and what I intelligently assume to be a quiet majority. 
Or if DE is just realizing the synergies they have given us, I suggest that DE take a pause to look at all the tools players have to maximize damage (in solo and in a fully coordinated squad of 4) and ask themselves if they want such power to exist in the game or not 

[Hazeeal]

So you're also making so that rivens don't affect abilities as well, right? Because people be paying 3000p for a "god riven" for those abilities and that is fine because it is IRL money?

Also I want my invested Formas on the Xoris back. I fully expect the refund of those. Thank you 

[Zantum]

.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

So before I rip into this I want to make two distinctions

1) Xoris is not a direct power upgrade to exalted/pseudo exalted weapons like this post seems to state.  The only way you can twist this as a "power" upgrade is if you argue convenience is indirect power.  Which is correct, but not what DE made their case on.

2) Xoris is the only weapon that effectively doesn't have a combo counter decay.  The decay is a trade off.  Your weapon can get more powerful if you can keep hitting things.  So in a vacuum looking at JUST this sentence one could understand why having something get the benefits of the combo counter without the drawbacks would be a problem.  The issue is that this isn't a self contained problem.  And it knocks on pain points for the game of which i'll get into but first..

Xoris is NOT a good melee weapon.  This isn't to say it's bad either but glaives are not meta weaponry.  There's nothing about it stat wise that makes it worth picking over other stronger melee catagories.  At most Glaives are used for gimmicky builds.  This needed to be stated simply because DE is advertising the weapon as a problem when it's not.  The problems are with certain aspects of the game and Xoris just happened to be a teeny tiny bandaid.

 

Rivens:  This will be the first point as imo it's the most important one.  And even if DE doesn't back track on this change this needs to be taken care of.  HOWEVER you look at this supposed "new" power that it brings DE doesn't like it's implementation by it indirectly effecting warframe powers.  So I pose the question, WHY do rivens do?  They have literally since their inclusion.  Rivens are not meant to work with WF abilities.  However you feel about rivens themselves (I think they're bad personally) this isn't something that can be debated.  DE doesn't want Xoris effecting warframes.  What Xoris did for abilities is what a riven will do for any stat stick for the same abilities.  If DE doesn't want this exact same interaction happening then rivens need to be made to NOT effect WF abilities.

 

Pseudo exalteds:  If I can recall correctly the melee counter was given to said abilities specifically to make them capable of damaging decently.  This was DE's half way solution since exalted weapons got to have their own modding section.  They specifically gave exalted weapons their own moddable section so we could move away from "stat sticks" and melee weapons could be used for their intended purposes in gameplay.  Many people have been largely upset that these abilities still have this old problem.  Xoris effectively removed needing multiple stat sticks for different weapons because the convenience it gave out weighed the preference based choices with other weapons for stat sticks.  By removing Xoris from the field you're putting a lime light back on this age old problem which really should be addressed since you have frames like Khorra and Atlas who are literally built around attacking that way.

 

Exalted weapons:  It has been discussed to death on the state of said abilities since they were made.  As is exalted weapons do not outshine standard weapons.  This is by in large due to the lack of shadow debt mods (at least for melee based exalteds.)  A partial work around that's been around for ages is stacking the gladiator modset on a stat stick just so said exalted weapons could have a taste of the power that regular melee weapons have.  Xoris effectively became the best stat stick because of the flexibility in modding due to it's unique gimmick.  By changing this at all you're drudging up topics that have gone relatively not discussed for several months now.  As in "why use an exalted when my weapons are better?"  "why can exalted weapons not use shadow debt mods?"  etc.

 

Summary:  Xoris has brought some sembelence of a fix to a handful of player perceived problems that have been long standing.  DE's measured response cannot be appreciated regardless of how tactful it may be simply because at the end of the day DE is removing a solution.  Not presenting one.  Had DE managed to address these concerns in another fashion even if said solution(s) wouldn't be immediate along side this change I doubt they'ed be under fire over this.  The way the post reads can be taken as misguided/misinformed on the situation as a whole at best.

To reiterate, I think everyone is fine with Xoris being "fixed" even if it means the weapon will fall into the abyss of other niche weapons.  The problem is DE isn't addressing the problems the Xoris kind of sort of fixed in some capacity.  It doesn't help that their post can be read to be spreading false information to justify a potential knee jerk reaction to it's spike in usage.

[-Ironheade-]

1 hour ago, Zapats said:

actually that last bit is also complete garbage

 

what we shouldnt be able to achieve high damage because this gamemode is supposed to be harder? isnt the point of steel path to skip to the hard part so powerful frames can shine? or is the steel path just a time sink for players to stay distracted while DE works on the next update like a bad arcade machine draining quarters 

Sure, it´s garbage, but i could at least understand this kneejerk reaction to some degree if DE is afraid of Xoris statsticks "trivialising" the Steel Path. I was on the test cluster and the fact that they didn´t just increase the initial level of enemies but also added double health and sortie modifiers made me think that it´s supposed to be more of a gear check hurdle for veterans than "alright, here have high level enemies without having to wait for an hour". Which i disagree with btw.