Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Jarriaga 6,471]

48 minutes ago, Umbriellan said:

But does that mean that Kuva Weapons, and looking mostly at the Kuva Bramma which has the highest MR (rank 15), are supposed to be "end game weapons" and MR20&+ are supposed to mostly be equiped with them to be geared up against the highest difficulties ?

I personaly don't believe that Mastery Rank is only supposed to block your access to better gear as DE is trying hard to "balance" things. Look at the Hek & Nukor, also MR4: they are still things to keep around and can be pretty useful even at higher level; on the other hand, I hardly see Convectrix being used (if MR 7 are "superior" to lower MR).

Here, the Xoris is a pretty good exemple: a QoL hidden within the weapon, which is a glaive (small quantity of these things; a relative low efficiency in stance & damages). It's a neat thing for an average / low interest item. It was amazing by creating more options.
To me, MR should indeed "lock" for a bit the highest-damages weapons (ex: pangolin prime), end-game thingy (kuva - basmu - shedu - etc...), but each MR should reward you with more tools available instead of only 'more powercreep'; and there the Xoris is a great tool (and so: yes, a must have to get more variety for different/all warframe & gameplay type).

We can only go by DE's on words own this, which is why I linked the source of the statement:

Quote

We are revisiting all weapons and adjusting their stats to fit into some Mastery Rank grouping guidelines based on DPS and Crit/Status split total. With this in mind, we are buffing a lot of the weapons you know and love!

We sketched out Mastery Rank groupings of 0-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12 and 13-15 for each weapon type with a minimum DPS and amount split between crit and status for each group. Using existing stats, weapons were sorted into the groups. If their stats were too high for their current MR it was raised along with any other properties to match.

I think that means that the weapon's MR rank reflects a certain performance ballpark more than just a simple progression lock. You can be MR20+ and use weapons under a lower MR bracket, but you shouldn't classify them as "terrible" weapons if they happen to not perform as you'd like if they still perform decently around its MR own MR bracket.

I do believe the current brackets do not spread-out as well as they should though. There should be weapon brackets all the way to MR20 at the very least, with the expected damage of said ballparks. Yes, they will completely dominate and destroy anything under them, but at least it will be expected and will not be outliers for doing so.

As for the Xoris, I think that the problem is the intention of having an infinite combo mechanic for Granun Void missions. And this fits with the Xoris being a weapon given to you for free in a quest tied to said mechanic. If said mechanic is being used beyond that (As a stats stick), then you have 2 options:

1) Remove infinite duration for stat sticks. This only nerfs those using the Xoris as a stat stick without affecting the weapon as a weapon.

2) Remove infinite duration outside the Granun Void. This affects the Xoris as both a weapon and as stat stick.

Which one seems like the less harsh option considering you can only stay in the Granun Void until you hit the cap and the weapon is tied to the Granun Void per se?

Edited July 2, 2020 by Jarriaga

[ABlindGuyPlays 4,794]

4 minutes ago, Geraion said:

Uh no, go check Brozime's channel on youtube, then come back.

I got your back man.

 

There ya go

 

[(NSW)HS-Argen 8]

was actualy talking about this with some clan mates yesterday and we basically came to the conclusion that its not the xoris. Any stat stick can do this huge dmg output xoris was not even a powerfull stat stick just convenience. brozime actualy made an interesting video about it

like i said prior its just convenience and i dont realy see the sense in this nerf because its not the xoris that makes these abilities powerfull

@[DE]Rebecca@[DE]Megan you might want to check this video out brozime basically exactly talked about what me and my clanmates talked about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SlKS9RtIJk

[KVenom 153]

20 часов назад, DariusMcSwag сказал:

And yet, to do the Granum Void, its Xoris or you're doing it wrong.

*laughs in Mesa*

[ZzVinniezZ 859]

when i see those infinite combo that able to link to exalted weapon...i already know DE would not allowed and will nerf it. already foreseen this but still it was a nice additional fun while it last.

 

[MunsuLight 1,236]

Il y a 2 heures, anfuerudo a dit :

I'll just post it here, because all pages in this topic need at least one post with it.😉

 

And DE just wont care about this kind of feedback because they love to kneejerk nerf things that are CONVENIENT (and not even top tier damage).. He made good points but DE just dont care at this point

[ABlindGuyPlays 4,794]

I do have to wonder wy we rebtalking or why de didnt just make an aniuncement post and lock it asi doubt anythngwill changr.

 

 

I hope. Am wrong an occasion,but it takes concentrated community's screaming for change to happen.

[(PSN)Jack-TheBassBoy 2]

just watch this video

[Jarriaga 6,471]

32 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Considering it has the same damage stats as the skana? You know,the starting sword. 

And the rest? Here are the guidelines they used when they made the decision to balance weapons around their MR rank:

Quote

We are revisiting all weapons and adjusting their stats to fit into some Mastery Rank grouping guidelines based on DPS and Crit/Status split total. With this in mind, we are buffing a lot of the weapons you know and love!

We sketched out Mastery Rank groupings of 0-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12 and 13-15 for each weapon type with a minimum DPS and amount split between crit and status for each group. Using existing stats, weapons were sorted into the groups. If their stats were too high for their current MR it was raised along with any other properties to match.

So if base damage is the same. What about crit and status?

Skana (MR0):

Base damage: 120

Crit Chance: 5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 16%
Attack Speed: 0.833
DPS: 102

Xoris (MR4):

Base damage: 120

Crit Chance: 20%
Crit Multiplier: 2.4x
Status Chance: 18%
Attack Speed: 1.17

DPS: 180

So this means the Xoris has a higher DPS value than the Skana (1.77x to be exact) by virtue of higher crit chance, damage, speed and status. Comparing base damage alone is not the full picture.

Beyond base stats, the problem with the Xoris infinite counter is the intention of having an infinite combo mechanic for Granun Void missions. And this fits with the Xoris being a weapon given to you for free in a quest tied to said mechanic. If said mechanic is being used beyond that (As a stat stick), then you have 2 options:

1) Remove infinite duration for stat sticks. This only nerfs those using the Xoris as a stat stick without affecting the weapon as a weapon.

2) Remove infinite duration outside the Granun Void. This affects the Xoris as both a weapon and as stat stick.

Which one seems like the less harsh option considering you can only stay in the Granun Void until you hit the cap and the weapon is tied to the Granun Void per se?

Edited July 2, 2020 by Jarriaga

[eltroeltro 43]

 

[Infiniko 25]

12 hours ago, VocaSeiza said:

Please, please, PLEASE reconsider this. What the Xoris did isn't create this oppressive "Xoris or you're doing it wrong" meta. It did the exact opposite - It gave us more options. Because even though the Xoris has infinite combo duration, it's still, much, much, much less powerful than other stat sticks. Literally the current meta was - Melee weapon with 5/5 riven dispo and syndicate mod, and that's because it gives us HUGE damage numbers. The Xoris doesn't have access to these, making it less powerful. However, this came with the benefit of never having to worry about your combo counter ever- and that was a huge quality of life update for frames that have spammable melee-affected abilities like Khora or Atlas.

The Xoris gave us an additional option with these abilities - Do much less damage but never worry about combo, or do a huge amount of damage at the cost of combo Decay. This essentially gave more options to break free from the current meta, and was such a nice change. Nerfing the Xoris is counterproductive to what you want to achieve, because all this is gonna do is bring back the Syndicate-mod +5/5 riven dispo melee meta, the opposite of what you want.

Right on point. I think Xoris was a good choice for less experienced players to make better use of Whipclaw etc in the lack of those powerful rivens for high dispo weapons. For me it never replaced other way better options and I think many who have some of those hours clocked in feels the same way.

[Guest]

Oh wow, another broken stuff gets nerfed. 

DE balance team is dumb and can't think ahead. Cheers 

[Greystrun 31]

@[DE]Megan

Can we at least get our Formas back? I mean... you're saying it was the team's mistake and all... so we should get a compensation for that... Right? 👀

[Leqesai 2,410]

38 minutes ago, KVenom said:

*laughs in Mesa*

He meant functionally. Granum void requires Xoris for the story and to free prisoners. There is literally no other option for the story component or freeing the prisoners.

[Leqesai 2,410]

1 minute ago, Greystrun said:

@[DE]Megan

Can we at least get our Formas back? I mean... you're saying it was the team's mistake and all... so we should get a compensation for that... Right? 👀

Formas aren't really worth anything. They're easily obtained ingame. And it isn't like you're out the forma. The weapon is still forma'd.

[Apathypony 14]

Just so that my 'vote' is in this thread about the Xoris.

I saw it as a convenience, and being the lazy type that I am, I liked it. It opened up a few build ideas and that was fun. Not worrying about messing up my combo meter was nice. I know very well that it didn't add power to the build, just ease. Now I'll just go back to what I was doing before and some frames I was having fun with will go back into the drawer. No problem. Not unexpected—nor unexpected was that the interactions of a few subsystems wasn't intended. What happened? Why wasn't the first thing that someone chimed up with when infinite combo duration was suggested for a weapon "What about the interaction with warframes that use the combo counter for abilities?" 'Cause that was the first thing I thought—"Awesome! Now I don't have to worry about that subsystem."

With the change happening, I'd like to have my (5) Xoris forma removed and credited, as well as the lens attached. It was modded explicitly to use the interaction that is now being removed.

[Melanholic7 1,820]

В 01.07.2020 в 19:21, DoveCannon сказал:

I've been posting this issue for a while now, no noticed from DE so far.

dude, i just tested Baruuk exalted and glad mods working. I dunno, i felt like they really were not working at some point and now they do...hm. I mean, they 100% are working now. Like, from white dmg i walked to 100% redcrits)

[MaryoSlayer 216]

Just now, Leqesai said:

Formas aren't really worth anything. They're easily obtained ingame. And it isn't like you're out the forma. The weapon is still forma'd.

Not the point.

People invested in this weapon and then DE decided to make it useless for what EVERYONE. used it for.

[Leqesai 2,410]

1 minute ago, MaryoSlayer said:

Not the point.

People invested in this weapon and then DE decided to make it useless for what EVERYONE. used it for.

True

[TheSuperKamiGuru 2]

If I may suggest an Idea for weapons with special perks (like the unlimited combo counter, Vekkas x14 counter, ext.) or rivens when dealing with warframe abilitys in the future; maybe make it so there is a slot that you can unlock in the warframe to pick what riven or weapon perk can be applied to your warframes ability(s) if able. Because there are more powerful builds that can be made besides using Xoris perk. Not having to worry about the combo timer is just one interesting build if you didn't want to deal with paying attention to the timer,it was not an OP or a must use build.

Edited July 2, 2020 by TheSuperKamiGuru

[Greystrun 31]

15 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Formas aren't really worth anything. They're easily obtained ingame. And it isn't like you're out the forma. The weapon is still forma'd.

Yea, but when they reworked Wukong, they gave 3 Forma to everyone, including me, who didn't even had Forma'd him. So why this argument now?

Edited July 2, 2020 by Greystrun

[Leon_Von_Comarre 68]

This... makes no sense? These kind of interactions have existed for months, there's nothing you couldn't do with the Xoris you couldn't do better with any other melee with a better riven disposition, Xoris just adds quality of life to the combo, but it's in no way more powerful than any other stat-stick, and you can do pretty much the same thing with a venka build for combo duration and combo gain. If the power of mods  on melee weapons affecting the exalted-like abilities disproportionally is the problem, you should be stopping rivens from affecting these abilities instead.

[(PSN)hirprirode 432]

DE for players just lol @DE

[papry 259]

Le 01/07/2020 à 17:55, [DE]Megan a dit :

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack, or if you die. Thus scaling with Warframe Abilities that are amplified by your Melee Combo multiplier (Ash Blade Storm, Atlas Landslide, and Khora Whipclaw), and even more so when equipped with Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds.

The second issue: The interaction with the Xoris and Gladiator Mod Set for Warframe Exalted weapons. The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe weapons such as Baruuk’s Serene Storm, Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, Valkyr’s Talons and Wukong’s Iron Staff.

The solution: The change coming with The Steel Path Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons reset the Melee Combo Counter ONLY if the Xoris is being used. What you’ll see now is the Critical Chance bonus applying to the first hit on abilities that are intended to scale with regular Melee Combo Multiplier, but then the Melee Combo is reset by the Ability, and does not apply to subsequent hits unless you build it up again with Xoris itself. Exalted Melee ultimates will reset the Xoris' Melee Combo Counter at the time of cast. As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole.

 

First Issue : This doesn't make any sense !

Xoris is commodity for khora/etc regarding infinite combo. Any melee weapon do the same.

The others is venka prime that give more combo multiplier and be forced to use naramon as a focus.

The downside of the xoris is purely linked to the riven power. I can take  my jaw sword and get more damage with a rank 4 rivens.

 

Second issue :

The exalted melee not being able to use these mod set put them way back regarding normal melee putting them in useles ability.

Reconsider that change please.

[CAPSLUCK 12]

After all this (mostly constructive and explaining feedback) from the community, as to why the Xoris is NOT Overpowered and so on, you'd think that maybe DE would listen to the community and look for another solution for this "problem" (is it?) and therefore, not execute this utterly unnecessary and senseless nerv.

Oh wait, I guess I'm dreaming again.