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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


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The xoris wasn't doing anything wrong it was just convenient and made the builds we did more accessible. I'll just go back to doing the thing I was doing before which is using a riven to get the exact same, if not better effect for abilities like Khora and Atlas' 1 because for some reason, rivens still affect warframe abilities. This has been an issue for over a year now and it doesn't seem like DE has any plans to fix it, so we can go nuts with getting the perfect roll for our rivens to increase the power of our warframes right? The xoris wasn't doing anything new, we already had the tools to do the things we were doing. The xoris just made it convenient and accessible, but I guess we can go back to using rivens to increase the power of warframes and using annoying methods to get the gladiator set bonus for our exalted weapons that are weaker than just using regular melee because we can't use the shadow debt mods on them (blood rush and weeping wounds)

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The Xoris isn't even that powerful, have you guys even looked at how ridiculous the Jaw Sword and Mire are for stat sticks?

The Xoris is an objectively worse stat stick that simply gave some more QoL. You say you want to "expand build variety" but all you did was kill it. Now it's Drifting Contact or nothing.

You guys aren't gonna listen, just like how you didn't listen to the Vazarin nerf feedback.

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I'm fine with this (though it means another glaive in the pile of clunky weapons I won't be using) but, can I have my forma back? Can we get at least one forma? Truthfully, we should have seen this coming and not even bothered with it but, still, a number of players put work into this to get all of the mods onto the weapon itself.

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Reb addressed the Xoris situation in today's stream: 

1) They will proceed to make the change. The stand behind their decision.

2) DE will look into the "stat stick" system as a whole and the role it plays in scaling. Nothing concrete to share beyond the Xoris change.

 

 

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On 2020-07-01 at 12:03 PM, Malziel said:

While a part of me is a bit sad to see this hilarious buff get shot down, I can at least understand it. With this said, however, will DE be addressing the fact that Riven Mods on stat sticks for Khora / Atlas / Gara still give their massively increased bonuses to Warframe Abilities? I feel like that has been a much larger and more noxious issue than the Xoris' hilarious fun Big Number Effect.

I agree with this.  Riven mods should never affect warframe abilities.

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

Reb addressed the Xoris situation in today's stream: 

1) They will proceed to make the change. The stand behind their decision.

2) DE will look into the "stat stick" system as a whole and the role it plays in scaling. Nothing concrete to share beyond the Xoris change.

 

 

Then they are fools who might as well stop saying they hear what we have to say. Their justification for the nerf has been torn to shreds. This is not the instanceo f a handful of players that are unhappy or even that the xoris is somehow catabomb or eso nuke trin busted in terms of unintendedp laystyle. This is 'hey i don't have to worry about the combo timer again. Neat.'

So how about 'within the granum void infinite combo duration' and 'outside of granum void naramon style combo decay'?

And if you are going to bullishly ram this through can the xoris at least get a stat buff since it is now ANTI-SYNERGY with any warframe that uses a stat stick weapon?

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4 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Reb addressed the Xoris situation in today's stream: 

1) They will proceed to make the change. The stand behind their decision.

2) DE will look into the "stat stick" system as a whole and the role it plays in scaling. Nothing concrete to share beyond the Xoris change.

 

 

Extremely disappointing.

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I just watched the hometime stream and i have to say, i think the point of WHY the community is so pissed at the Xoris nerf is being missed 100%

I, like most people who really care about their builds, already knew that the xoris did NOT affect top damage on any of the frames listed.   We've known for ages how to make builds that do exactly the same thing.  HOWEVER, the problem has to do with the approach DE took towards the nerf.

The xoris does not change the top damage for ANY of the warframes that they are claiming that it does.  This is highly inaccurate and to make the claim that the nerf is being made for this reason basically means one of only 2 things:

1)  De does not actually understand the interactions between their own weapons and this is the result of gross incompetence.   They somehow believe that these BIG NUMBERS are the result of the Xoris, and not stat sticks as a whole.   The Xoris only affects the QUALITY OF LIFE of these warframes by doing only one thing:  extending the timer of the combo meter to infinity.  That's it.   Doesn't change the damage, only changes how long you can do this.  As many people have pointed out already, this is already accomplished by using naramon and maybe 1 or 2 time extension mods on your stat stick.

2)  DE flat out lied about the reason.   They knew that the xoris was really a quality of life issue, and decided to lie to the community about it being about damage.

So here we are, stuck between 2 very unhappy places...............   Gross incompetence, or Lying.  

The issue is that people want accountability for the claims.  I also want to make it clear that as developers, DE has the right to do WHATEVER they want with their game.... I have no problem with that, in fact i have NO problem with the nerf quite honestly.  My issue here is the approach to the nerf.   By using language which is stunningly inaccurate, it misleads most people into thinking this is being done for an unrelated reason.

Be up front with the change.  If you wanted it changed because too many people were switching to it (which honestly would probably die down after a month or so once people realize OTHER weapons still have higher top damage for khora/baruuk/etc)..... then say that.  If you wanted to change the Xoris because it doesn't fit the theme of the game, that's fine.  If you wanted to change it because it simply was not intended and this is an interaction you'd like to remove, THAT IS FINE.... But to use the misinformation about "damage" is just absurd.

I think at this point considering how DE keeps doubling down on this damage issue, i really feel like they don't understand how stat sticks work at all...........   That's a whole other issue.  But as for *THIS* issue, i feel an apology about WHY the nerf is being made is warranted.... And honestly, DE, you need no more reason than "We just felt it didn't match with the intentions of the weapon, and so we are making a change."  This is your game at the end of the day and you can design it any way you want.

But please, be honest about your changes and WHY you're doing it.  This kind of unwarranted and deceptive wording is a slap in the face to your playerbase.   It assumes that we don't know how your game works and that we don't know how to mod things on our own.  I personally would appreciate a retraction of WHY this is being nerfed and fix it with a better reason....................  Cause right now you're either a LIAR or GROSSLY INCOMPETENT.    Neither one is a good look.

 

-Djeneh

 

Adding the Brozime video because he's 100% right on the quality of life issue.   Please read my whole post to understand my thoughts.

 

Edited by Djeneh
Adding Brozime Video
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12 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Then they are fools who might as well stop saying they hear what we have to say. Their justification for the nerf has been torn to shreds. This is not the instanceo f a handful of players that are unhappy or even that the xoris is somehow catabomb or eso nuke trin busted in terms of unintendedp laystyle. This is 'hey i don't have to worry about the combo timer again. Neat.'

So how about 'within the granum void infinite combo duration' and 'outside of granum void naramon style combo decay'?

And if you are going to bullishly ram this through can the xoris at least get a stat buff since it is now ANTI-SYNERGY with any warframe that uses a stat stick weapon?

They hear what they believe can be done without hurting the balance they've been struggling to create ever since the melee rework past October, then the armor scaling rework, then the status chance rework, then hard mode for increasing challenge a tiny bit without breaking the rest of the game.

Naramon-style decay outside the Granun Void? Why not just use Naramon then? Can I take a guess and say it's because you want to use Zenurik at all times and want all of the Zenurik benefits while losing nothing for using Zenurik? The irony of your post is that this changes absolutely nothing for those who use the Xoris as a weapon instead of a stat stick, and further points towards an eventual Zenurik nerf. Reb mentioned (In the Shy interview) Scott is interested in revisiting the focus system, so that's coming. 

Still, if we take the Xoris situation like the Venari situation, expect buffs and nerfs to more or less equalize everything. Rivens will be removed from scaling as you can't equalize around them.

Edited by Jarriaga
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If overwhelming damage is this issue then remove rivens. It isn't overwhelming damage that make this weapon so good. It's quality of life. I'll just go back to my mire or venka and get the same damage, just as fast only with a few more hoops to jump through. And "greatly restrictive in terms of player choice" defines surviving the recently added hard mode. Please rethink this.

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But this makes the Xoris worse AS A WEAPON for frames with exalted abilities, since the combo counter is now only infinite in the absence of exalted abilities, AND it's a WORSE stat stick for them than all others. 

Surely "khora can't use Xoris and therefore can't farm granuum void for optimal performance" is almost as bad! 

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

They hear what they believe can be done without hurting the balance they've been struggling to create ever since the melee rework past October, then the armor scaling rework, then the status chance rework, then hard mode for increasing challenge a tiny bit without breaking the rest of the game.

Balance. Riiight. If it's a benefit to players INSTANTLY snatched away. If it's something that's aggrivating? Persists for f'ing ever. Or a fun interaction is labeled as a bug and burried at the botom of the patch notes. The fact they just causally went 'NOPE nothing ot see here we are going aobut as is full steam ahead' without acknowledging the misstep...
 

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Naramon-style decay outside the Granun Void? Why not just use Naramon then? Can I take a guess and say it's because you to use Zenurik at all times and want all of the Zenurik benefits while losing nothing for using Zenurik? The irony of your post is that this changes absolutely nothing for those who use the Xoris as a weapon instead of a stat stick.

For me at this point it is the principle of the matter. DE is either lying or grossly incometent because their stated reasons are bunk, and have been proven to be bunk. 

Frankly the wolf sledge makes a better glaive than most of the glaives. i don't even use Khora 9I primarily use Oberon by the way.) So technically I'm not affected, but to introduce an anti-synergy with a subset of frames because 'oh if you equip THIS weapon you are gonna suddenly get penalized.' 

Stupidity. Pure and utter stupidity.
 

 

5 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

expect buffs and nerfs to more or less equalize everything. Rivens will be removed from scaling as you can't equalize around them.

Not one word has been spoken of buffs, so I expect none until that point. As Rebecca said nothing of buffs in public response and acknowledgment of this thread? 

I expect nothing but backhanded mewing from them.

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)Quik8201 said:

If overwhelming damage is this issue then remove rivens.

Seems like they could. They'll review the stat stick system as a whole now as per tonight's stream.

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Aila said:

But this makes the Xoris worse AS A WEAPON for frames with exalted abilities, since the combo counter is now only infinite in the absence of exalted abilities, AND it's a WORSE stat stick for them than all others. 

Xoris is not "a weapon" for exalted abilities. It is noting more than an ability damage boost. 

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Aila said:

Surely "khora can't use Xoris and therefore can't farm granuum void for optimal performance" is almost as bad! 

Then actually use the Xoris! HIT things with it! Kill things with it! This changes absolutely nothing if you actually attack with it. Oh... Right, I forgot it likely has Spoiled Strike and no attack speed mods because you never intended to actually attack with it. So nothing more than an ability booster.

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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Seems like they could. They'll review the stat stick system as a whole now as per tonight's stream

if you really think DE is going to review the stat stick system i have bad news for you

De is going to review it in the same way De did review the darksector/raids, and by reviewing i mean ignoring it

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DE please stop being so stubborn with this decision ... This will backfire again and will again let a lot of players quit the game ... 

 

It's not the nerfing the weapon, that's the problem. It's DE being so stubborn.... 

The xoris is fine as it is, they talk about build diversity, but now you are forcing us to go back to riven statsticks till they get nerfed too.... 

Please rethink and leave the weapon alone...

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1 minute ago, paulogabbi said:

De is going to review it in the same way De did review the darksector/raids, and by reviewing i mean ignoring it

Anyone have any idea on how to get in contact with jim sterling? Since this removes a viable, albeit weaker (but more convenient) option than rivens and we all know how Jim LOVES dev shenanagins on lootboxes.

Or maybe sid Alpha could do a dirty devs.

How do we make these guys care?

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Just now, MarrikBroom said:

Anyone have any idea on how to get in contact with jim sterling? Since this removes a viable, albeit weaker (but more convenient) option than rivens and we all know how Jim LOVES dev shenanagins on lootboxes.

Or maybe sid Alpha could do a dirty devs.

How do we make these guys care?

send them a msg on youtube, it normally helps, also DE is on the dirt dev list for a long time

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3 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Balance. Riiight. If it's a benefit to players INSTANTLY snatched away. If it's something that's aggrivating? Persists for f'ing ever. Or a fun interaction is labeled as a bug and burried at the botom of the patch notes. The fact they just causally went 'NOPE nothing ot see here we are going aobut as is full steam ahead' without acknowledging the misstep...

Better now than a year later.

4 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

So technically I'm not affected, but to introduce an anti-synergy with a subset of frames because 'oh if you equip THIS weapon you are gonna suddenly get penalized.' 

What do you propose that isn't actually Naramon then?

They want infinite duration during the Granum Void. The Xoris was designed around and made for using within the Granun Void. The only other thing I can think of is to completely kill this infinite combo counter outside the Granun Void. So what was the alternative? Completely remove infinite combo outside the Granun Void and make the Xoris take a hit for every frame, even those who could not benefit the same way?

8 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Not one word has been spoken of buffs, so I expect none until that point. As Rebecca said nothing of buffs in public response and acknowledgment of this thread? 

I expect nothing but backhanded mewing from them.

 I went by the Venari situation, which started in a similar way and resulted in a similar backlash and resulted in DE reviewing the entire "healing" system. Some abilities got buffed. Some abilities were nerfed. Pretty much everything was equalized. No reason to expect otherwise. 

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18 minutes ago, Djeneh said:

I just watched the hometime stream and i have to say, i think the point of WHY the community is so pissed at the Xoris nerf is being missed 100%

I, like most people who really care about their builds, already knew that the xoris did NOT affect top damage on any of the frames listed.   We've known for ages how to make builds that do exactly the same thing.  HOWEVER, the problem has to do with the approach DE took towards the nerf.

The xoris does not change the top damage for ANY of the warframes that they are claiming that it does.  This is highly inaccurate and to make the claim that the nerf is being made for this reason basically means one of only 2 things:

1)  De does not actually understand the interactions between their own weapons and this is the result of gross incompetence.   They somehow believe that these BIG NUMBERS are the result of the Xoris, and not stat sticks as a whole.   The Xoris only affects the QUALITY OF LIFE of these warframes by doing only one thing:  extending the timer of the combo meter to infinity.  That's it.   Doesn't change the damage, only changes how long you can do this.  As many people have pointed out already, this is already accomplished by using naramon and maybe 1 or 2 time extension mods on your stat stick.

2)  DE flat out lied about the reason.   They knew that the xoris was really a quality of life issue, and decided to lie to the community about it being about damage.

So here we are, stuck between 2 very unhappy places...............   Gross incompetence, or Lying.  

The issue is that people want accountability for the claims.  I also want to make it clear that as developers, DE has the right to do WHATEVER they want with their game.... I have no problem with that, in fact i have NO problem with the nerf quite honestly.  My issue here is the approach to the nerf.   By using language which is stunningly inaccurate, it misleads most people into thinking this is being done for an unrelated reason.

Be up front with the change.  If you wanted it changed because too many people were switching to it (which honestly would probably die down after a month or so once people realize OTHER weapons still have higher top damage for khora/baruuk/etc)..... then say that.  If you wanted to change the Xoris because it doesn't fit the theme of the game, that's fine.  If you wanted to change it because it simply was not intended and this is an interaction you'd like to remove, THAT IS FINE.... But to use the misinformation about "damage" is just absurd.

I think at this point considering how DE keeps doubling down on this damage issue, i really feel like they don't understand how stat sticks work at all...........   That's a whole other issue.  But as for *THIS* issue, i feel an apology about WHY the nerf is being made is warranted.... And honestly, DE, you need no more reason than "We just felt it didn't match with the intentions of the weapon, and so we are making a change."  This is your game at the end of the day and you can design it any way you want.

But please, be honest about your changes and WHY you're doing it.  This kind of unwarranted and deceptive wording is a slap in the face to your playerbase.   It assumes that we don't know how your game works and that we don't know how to mod things on our own.  I personally would appreciate a retraction of WHY this is being nerfed and fix it with a better reason....................  Cause right now you're either a LIAR or GROSSLY INCOMPETENT.    Neither one is a good look.

 

-Djeneh

 

Adding the Brozime video because he's 100% right on the quality of life issue.   Please read my whole post to understand my thoughts.

 

Wish I could like this twice.

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5 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

if you really think DE is going to review the stat stick system i have bad news for you

De is going to review it in the same way De did review the darksector/raids, and by reviewing i mean ignoring it

Well, that's what they said. Some things they have failed on.

Others, they acted quite quickly on them like the healing system revision.

So you can choose to believe they meant it or that they lied. Only time can tell.

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