Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Adi1908PL]

9 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

we are talking about DE here forgot ? "convenient" mean Fun and this word is banned in game

also it reduce the need of riven so De need to remove it because Riven generates money to De

and De is not know for "thinking on smart solutions"

I'm playing this game long enough to learn how to do it and have fun, how not to depend on rivens, how not to complain on every s### decision DE made. But this is one bridge too far... Nerfing mediocre weapon just because it's convenient (and thanks to it fun) is just below the belt... I spent too much time playing this game, and faaaaar too much money on platinum, but that's it. After all the "great" updates in 2019 and early 2020, and this... They won't see a broken penny from me...

[paulogabbi]

Just now, Adi1908PL said:

I'm playing this game long enough to learn how to do it and have fun, how not to depend on rivens, how not to complain on every s### decision DE made. But this is one bridge too far... Nerfing mediocre weapon just because it's convenient (and thanks to it fun) is just below the belt... I spent too much time playing this game, and faaaaar too much money on platinum, but that's it. After all the great updates in 2019 and early 2020, and this... They won't see a broken penny from me...

remember void keys raids GVG ? yeah me too, after the good will De did earn on 2019 it all died after this nerf wave

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

yeah so why not remove the melee after the quest ? because we don't need it anymore

also i am not mad because xoris is nerfed

i am mad because De do this type of thing all the type, launch something without testing it and punish players for investing on it

The most disconcerting thing about this, for me, is that DE continuously avoid the topic of Rivens being a subtle, yet predatory form of gambling ingame. The good rivens are locked behind multiple layers of RNG, horribly overpriced (lots of players will spend real money to buy plat in order to get rivens) and generally balanced poorly (continuously changing dispositions/stats based on a weapon's popularity rather than the overall effectiveness of the weapon).

[paulogabbi]

Just now, Leqesai said:

The most disconcerting thing about this, for me, is that DE continuously avoid the topic of Rivens being a subtle, yet predatory form of gambling ingame. The good rivens are locked behind multiple layers of RNG, horribly overpriced (lots of players will spend real money to buy plat in order to get rivens) and generally balanced poorly (continuously changing dispositions/stats based on a weapon's popularity rather than the overall effectiveness of the weapon).

in this question De is like EA games, "it is not gambling it is surprise mechanics, you don't need it to complete the game"

 

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, paulogabbi said:

in this question De is like EA games, "it is not gambling it is surprise mechanics, you don't need it to complete the game"

 

I'm just waiting for the day someone exposes it as a form of gambling and DE gets lambasted with unfair reviews/criticism about it. We've asked that it be reviewed ever since it was implemented and nothing has been done.

[paulogabbi]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

I'm just waiting for the day someone exposes it as a form of gambling and DE gets lambasted with unfair reviews/criticism about it. We've asked that it be reviewed ever since it was implemented and nothing has been done.

i am sure jim sterling is going to talk about this at some point

[Adi1908PL]

2 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

remember void keys raids GVG ? yeah me too, after the good will De did earn on 2019 it all died after this nerf wave

I even remember when Banshee parts were dropping from defence missions or Ember had her own "ashy" armor (ability no.2) thanks to which she was nearly unkillable. But that's not the point.
I was writing about 2019 in a sarcastic way (didn't put the "..." above great updates - my bad, SORRY). They messed up the whole last year, and the beginning of this one. I always tried to understand and defend them. But after this one?? hell no. there are many good games in the market that will cost me less than warframe. it just hurts that such a potential is being wasted by irrational decisions that are scaring players off.

[vFlitz]

6 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

If you have a problem with this then take it to DE. They make the rules, not you or me. If some weapons are outliers for their expected MR performance ballpark bracket not accounting for Rivens then they should be adjusted. That doesn't change what the design intent is.

It being the design intent doesn't make it reality. Similarly, the stated intent behind rivens is helping bad weapons close the gap to good ones, but everyone knows that's not how it works. Bad weapons remain bad regardless of rivens, and the only rivens people actually care for are ones that squeeze even more power out of weapons that are actually good.

You can attribute it to DE being incapable of making the game reflect their statements, or you can attribute it to them being disingenuous and saying one thing then doing another. Regardless, pretending it's the actual state of things and using it to justify it some things while others stand blatantly in opposition to a given rule just isn't the way to go.

Xoris is likely stronger than all glaives aside from Glaive Prime, yet most of them have higher MR requirement. There is only one reason why it's MR 4 and not something else - DE doesn't gate new content from beginners even when it's the sensible thing to do, because Warframe lives and dies by the new update hype. The quest starts off easy, sure, but no average MR 4 player is prepared for the Protea fight at the end.

[paulogabbi]

Just now, Adi1908PL said:

I even remember when Banshee parts were dropping from defence missions or Ember had her own "ashy" armor (ability no.2) thanks to which she was nearly unkillable. But that's not the point.
I was writing about 2019 in a sarcastic way (didn't put the "..." above great updates - my bad, SORRY). They messed up the whole last year, and the beginning of this one. I always tried to understand and defend them. But after this one?? hell no. there are many good games in the market that will cost me less than warframe. it just hurts that such a potential is being wasted by irrational decisions that are scaring players off.

remember void being hard ? banshe actually being good, def T4 being hard as nails because Vor as broken, stalker being actually hard, having meaningful events  from 3 to 3 months ? actually good rewards ?

yeah it was a good time

for me warframe  died when Tencent did buy a part of it and we did learn about the kids "operators" it was a heavy blow to me because i was not a space ninja but now i am a space babysitter


(well i did come back to warframe on 2020 so i did think it was serious sorry)

[(NSW)Jothki]

That's an ugly hack of a nerf. I have no opinion on the balance, but having a weapon fizzle out because you used a skill sounds like it'll feel terrible in practice.

I wonder if a balanced system could be worked out where using an exalted weapon skill would cause the Xoris to simultaneously detonate like you triggered it during a throw, with the same relative combo loss. That'd feel like an actual mechanic.

[Jarriaga]

6 minutes ago, RFaul said:

I really am afraid of 2.... More nerfs inc?

That's what I think will happen, with Rivens being removed entirely because of the optics in this thread about DE doing this so people keep buying stat stick Rivens.

7 minutes ago, RFaul said:

This is such a bad interpretation of the game. Using Xoris with infinite duration is just convenient not to have to refresh charges once in a while but this kind of gameplay already existed for ages!!! In fact in many of these examples using Xoris was a bad choice from damage perspective. Seriously it was just a fair trade: less  damage for not having to refresh charges once in a while or even choosing a different school of focus.

This is so bad, so many times in this game a weapon gets nerfed to trash status because it offered a different effect that opened up different approaches to gameplay.
 

I do sincerly believe that undoing nerfs like AoE changes, nerfs to Trinity and weapons with different effects like Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace, Zenistar, others that were affected by not doing headshots, Basmu  and others from  would cause more diversification than what we have now.

DE made mistake by mentioning the damage output when they meant that the level of convenience was pushing people towards such builds because of how easy they were now with little to no investment. I don't think they want people using the Xoris for the purpose of it being nothing more than a stat stick, so they'd rather kill it.

10 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

well yeah because warframe is in beta and de have like 5 employees, so you cannot expect a triple A team working on beta testing a weapon how is rewarding from a MR4 quest, and the quest in question lasts 2h max

I hope no one ever holds you to your own standards. From the bottom of my heart and with no ill-intent.

9 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

yeah so why not remove the melee after the quest ? because we don't need it anymore

also i am not mad because xoris is nerfed

i am mad because De do this type of thing all the type, launch something without testing it and punish players for investing on it

Likely didn't remove it because they want you to use it in Granun Void? It's not unique to the quest.

And yes, DE do this often. But there's no way around it without the expectation of them never making a mistake anymore and from now on. The best you can do is not flock to whatever is new that a very large number of people seem to be flocking to, because DE don't like that. They have warned us. They told us with Kuva Bramma. They told us to Catchmoon. I am expecting a Kuva Nukor nerf any time now. It's the same story and will remain the same story because:

X usage > Y usage = DE are OK with this.

X usage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Y usage = DE not OK with this.

 

[JetstreamSamIsMyWaifu]

Hi please look at Brozime's video then perhaps revisit the idea of the nerf?

[paulogabbi]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

That's what I think will happen, with Rivens being removed entirely because of the optics in this thread about DE doing this so people keep buying stat stick Rivens.

DE made mistake by mentioning the damage output when they meant that the level of convenience was pushing people towards such builds because of how easy they were now with little to no investment. I don't think they want people using the Xoris for the purpose of it being nothing more than a stat stick, so they'd rather kill it.

I hope no one ever holds you to your own standards. From the bottom of my heart and with no ill-intent.

Likely didn't remove it because they want you to use it in Granun Void? It's not unique to the quest.

And yes, DE do this often. But there's no way around it without the expectation of them never making a mistake anymore and from now on. The best you can do is not flock to whatever is new that a very large number of people seem to be flocking to, because DE don't like that. They have warned us. They told us with Kuva Bramma. They told us to Catchmoon. I am expecting a Kuva Nukor nerf any time now. It's the same story and will remain the same story because:

X usage > Y usage = DE are OK with this.

X usage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Y usage = DE not OK with this.

 

yeah i know De LOVE to nerf anything fun, or if plays found a way to play the game in a way De don't want them to

"oh so you found a way to not need to buy rivens ?, too bad here a nerf, also remember 75% cheap platin cupon today"

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

It being the design intent doesn't make it reality.

That's a failure of execution. Doesn't negate the intent.

5 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Similarly, the stated intent behind rivens is helping bad weapons close the gap to good ones, but everyone knows that's not how it works. Bad weapons remain bad regardless of rivens, and the only rivens people actually care for are ones that squeeze even more power out of weapons that are actually good.

That's yet again a failure of execution that seems to be now partially addressed by new weapons having a low disposition and unpopular weapons now gaining more than 2 pips. A change guided by the design intent. Still, there's more that needs to be done. The least popular weapons should have higher disposition than 5. All the way to 10 if need be. Otherwise the gap will always remain.

8 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

You can attribute it to DE being incapable of making the game reflect their statements, or you can attribute it to them being disingenuous and saying one thing then doing another.  Regardless, pretending it's the actual state of things and using it to justify it some things while others stand blatantly in opposition to a given rule just isn't the way to go.

I believe it has been both. They have to hold themselves accountable to their own words. People won't respect their decisions until they do.

9 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Xoris is likely stronger than all glaives aside from Glaive Prime, yet most of them have higher MR requirement.

Lower base damage. Lower crit chance. Lower status chance. Lower attack speed. Lower range. Worse damage distribution. It does a have higher crit multiplier, but the total DPS is still:

Xoris DPS: 180

Glaive Prime DPS: 250

The only thing it has going for it is the infinite duration, which you can use to replace the duration mod with a damage mod. But if that's the argument test with Naramon as you don't need duration for either. Xoris is more desirable because of its infinite combo trait. But its stats fall behind Glaive Prime, thus respecting the performance ballparks based MR bracket. 

21 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

There is only one reason why it's MR 4 and not something else - DE doesn't gate new content from beginners even when it's the sensible thing to do, because Warframe lives and dies by the new update hype. The quest starts off easy, sure, but no average MR 4 player is prepared for the Protea fight at the end.

The difficulty of the quest is not necessarily tied to the rewards of the quest, which is an argument for adjusting the difficulty of that fight. An MR4 player is very unlikely to be able to solo farm the last part of Protea on its own.

[Noarkleah]

Was expecting to have Xoris a nerf instead got a reason to store it in inventory forever

[HikariBlue]

Xoris wasn't being used because of the damage output it brings(there are better options for that, an option that also costs some players to spend plat on the riven market hmmmm). It was being used for the convenience of not having to deal with the combo timer. Why exactly are we nerfing something for the convenience it brings while saying that the damage output it brings is "overwhelming"?

[KVenom]

4 часа назад, Leqesai сказал:

He meant functionally. Granum void requires Xoris for the story and to free prisoners. There is literally no other option for the story component or freeing the prisoners.

Ah, that would be true.

[KVenom]

BTW, what about Relentless Combination and other mods that lost their functionality after melee 3.0?
Are they gonna get repaired? Seriously, tons of melee mods are not functioning at all.

[Nehlaksis]

Well, this is dumb. Could you at least refund the forma and potato spent on this weapon I will probably never use again? My old stat stick weapon gave me more damage anyways, just means I'm back to babysitting my combo duration, because that's some fun and engaging gameplay.

[Welwyrmi]

Welp, I'm glad I did not use any forma on the Xoris. BUT OOOOH BOY THIS IS NOT A GOOD NERF TO DO.

 

[Welwyrmi]

On 2020-07-01 at 1:01 PM, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

They are nerfing an OP interaction. Why people hate nerfs?

You think the Xoris interaction is "OP". OOOH BOY let me introduce you to RIVEN stat sticks my friend.

The Xoris should be left untouched. If the problem is the "OP interaction of the weapon with the warframe ability" Xoris is NOT the source of it. Doing it to only 1 weapon wille simply ignoring ALL the other Riven based stat sticks, that almost make you one shot +170 heavy enemies is NOT the way to fix this problem. Their attention should not be focused on the Xoris.

[(XBOX)Quik8201]

2 hours ago, Adi1908PL said:

And just because people like stat sticks doesn't mean DE are OK with people flat-out only using it for the purpose of being a stat stick and nothing more than a stat stick.

Oh, but they're okay with people not using weapons at all? Just another mediocre weapon that used to be awesome, falls to the wayside as mastery fodder.

[Adrian_DSAT]

On 2020-07-01 at 10:55 AM, [DE]Megan said:

As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole.

Imma be honest, this one line in the entire post is what truly annoys me. This kind of remark during scarlet spear, when limbo got his "nerf" twords sentients, makes perfect sense. But, on a weapon like the xoris, this is inexcusable.

By nerfing the xoris in this way, you will effectively be doing the opposite of what supporting diversified loadouts. The reason for this revolves completely around the melee weapons that would be considered the "meta" for this exact use case. A major example of a "meta" stat stick would be the venka prime, a melee weapon that can reack a combo multiplier of 13X, and with a full combo, can offer a bonus 1440% crit chance boost to weapons, on top of the normal combo multiplier boosts. Another "meta" weapon would be the jaw sword, a melee weapon with such a high riven disposition, that you could replace multiple mods as a result of your rivens stats, and thats before you factor in the combo meter.

Now, what can the xoris do that could top these two weapons that are broken without abilities? It offers players flexibility, it offers convenience, it gives newer players a reason to even care about the combo system. Nerfing this weapon in such a massive way will reduce its status to that of the paracesis, a cool looking weapon that you may use when you're farming for something, and that's it. 

And before i give my last statement, i'd like to give some context from where my opinion is coming from. I am not a person who has used any of the frames that get a major benefit from this weapon (besides the Excalibur umbra that I haven't even figured out how to use with the xoris), and i implore anyone who wants to, please look me up on pc (Adrian_DSAT) and you will see that i am by no means lieing about making this post with no malicious intentions (sent a message or meme gift if ya wanna to prove your point). But to get back on topic, when it comes to the combo system, the system is extremly annoying to get going, reason being that everything gets blown up before you can do anything with it, so, having a weapon like this actually makes the entire system fun, even though you can only get a 7X combo before the portal opens in sanctuary onslaught.

For my final statement id would just like to reiterate that this nerf will make this weapon worthless in the eyes of many, it will get sold by newer players when they see that they can't use it for any fun nuke builds, and it will collect dust in the inventories of the people who decide to keep it for the granum void. And with the lotus as my witness, id love to challenge anyone who says that this weapon is overpowered, and i'd love to take them into any form of content, and show them that this weapon is only good as means of introducing new players to three concepts at once; the glaive system, the combo system, and the stat stick system.

This has been you local memer Adrian with your daily challenge. Praise excal prime, and good luck out there Tenno.

[Electric.Sheep]

you know, i'm glad i'm experiencing this. in the future when i talk to someone who played warframe, THIS and things like it are going to be at the forefront of the conversation.

it's not going to be about the aspects of the game we liked, it going to be about how DE ruined their game by completely ignoring its players and were laughably transparent about their desire to promote platinum purchases through nonsensical balance patches. 

it's honestly unprecedented as far as i can tell. i feel like i'm a part of history! 

[KitMellow]

So not only is the Xoris going to be useless for these Warframes, but it's going to be actively detrimental to them?

DE, please at least make the Xoris memorize and restore your built up Xoris combo as soon as you stop using your exalted weapon (or transfer over the exalted combo when you switch back to Xoris, whichever was greater).

Otherwise, you just turned a good weapon into one that now has no redeeming qualities, AND is going to hurt your gameplay if you use it with these Warframes...