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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


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1 minute ago, Adi1908PL said:

Yeah. Better way is to force people to not use it at all ūüėāūüėāūüėā

well you know, a  programmer friend of mine once say "thinking is hard adding/removing zeros  is easy"

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7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't see how you being efficient with Mesa relates to a mechanic that is unique to the Xoris in that game mode. 

You're the one who mentioned this mechanic, I'm just saying that it's not even worth doing so

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Reb addressed the Xoris situation in today's stream: 

1) They will proceed to make the change. The stand behind their decision.

2) DE will look into the "stat stick" system as a whole and the role it plays in scaling. Nothing concrete to share beyond the Xoris change.

 

I really am afraid of 2.... More nerfs inc?

 

Seriously Xoris Nerf???

This is such a bad interpretation of the game. Using Xoris with infinite duration is just convenient not to have to refresh charges once in a while but this kind of gameplay already existed for ages!!! In fact in many of these examples using Xoris was a bad choice from damage perspective. Seriously it was just a fair trade: less  damage for not having to refresh charges once in a while or even choosing a different school of focus.

This is so bad, so many times in this game a weapon gets nerfed to trash status because it offered a different effect that opened up different approaches to gameplay.
 

I do sincerly believe that undoing nerfs like AoE changes, nerfs to Trinity and weapons with different effects like Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace, Zenistar, others that were affected by not doing headshots, Basmu  and others from  would cause more diversification than what we have now.

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1 minute ago, paulogabbi said:

well you know, a  programmer friend of mine once say "thinking is hard adding/removing zeros  is easy"

But to be honest, there don't have to be any thinking involved. It's enough to leave it as it is, and for once make the game convenient for players...

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7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

You are right there. This is the only weapon in the game that functions differently per frame. I can't think of a solution that works as a middle ground.

 

Arbitrations nerf was a mistake. Fortuna week 1 difficulty was a mistake. Calling Venari's healing a bug was a mistake. Nerfing Khora and Limbo because of Scarlet spear was a mistake. Rushing Empyrean was a mistake. The Dog Days balancing was a mistake.

I just don't think this is. And just because this time I don't think it's a mistake doesn't mean I'm a drone unless you happen to think I must always reject nerfs at all times. If this makes me a whiteknight because I am not allowed to agree and disagree individually in a case by case situation then by all means pass on the polish so I can luster the armor. 

I didn't get upset at DE for ignoring the path they had taken with regards to Scarlet Spear, then Railjack before it, then the Old Blood Before it.

I didn't get upset when they released Split Flights without warning that it wouldn't work with Crossbows.

I didn't get angry at DE for the initial balancing of Scarlet Spear.

I didn't complain at the original Lich system having no evergreen value.

I didn't get angry when they reworked Arbitrations by diluting the drop tables while keeping the revive system.

I didn't write a 4 page post listing every single thing I believe DE did wrong in 2019 including possible false advertisement.

By all means, ignore every single criticism I have ever lobbied at DE when it's convenient to do so because you can't even fathom the thought of someone being OK with this change without being a white knight. If your only two choices are "Share my point of view" or "You are a white knight" then you might as well say that you guys are a hive mind with no individual agency or priorities. And I don't want to be a part of that.

If they remove Riven scaling I don't think you'll be able to use that argument any longer. And sure there are much better weapons than the Xoris. It's just that they are likely to be in a higher MR bracket, which means they are expected to be better. And just because people like stat sticks doesn't mean DE are OK with people flat-out only using it for the purpose of being a stat stick and nothing more than a stat stick. I now understand why they didn't add a new melee weapon with the melee MOA.

I don't see how you being efficient with Mesa relates to a mechanic that is unique to the Xoris in that game mode. 

If we go by the Venari situation, it's going to be both. Good for some frames. Bad for others. They'll likely try to equalize.

I had not seen many posts from people asking to be able to heal objectives. In fact, that's something some abilities were able to do. Just not consistently. So I'll take your word for it while taking into account that just like the Xoris, Venari was the detonator that resulted in DE saying they will revise the system. And it only took them a month from there.

That's a fair solution. But that only means increased backlash as time goes on until the behavior is changed. Kuva Bramma only took 3-4 months and people were pissed.

It is not a poor excuse when DE made a public post stating weapon performance ballpark was being tied to MR rank. It literally means that an MR4 weapon is not meant to compete with an MR14 weapon in any way, shape or form. If you find the performance of a low-tier weapon to be lackluster then move on to a higher performance bracket. If you have a problem with this then take it to DE. They make the rules, not you or me. If some weapons are outliers for their expected MR performance ballpark bracket not accounting for Rivens then they should be adjusted. That doesn't change what the design intent is.

 

sorry but it being a "unique interaction" is not worth to mention when it is useless in 99.99% of the content

because broken specter can heal you if you use it in a corpse but

A No one use it because it is a S#&$ty melee
B it is a S#&$ty interaction

exact like xoris

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Just now, Adi1908PL said:

But to be honest, there don't have to be any thinking involved. It's enough to leave it as it is, and for once make the game convenient for players...

we are talking about DE here forgot ? "convenient" mean Fun and this word is banned in game

also it reduce the need of riven so De need to remove it because Riven generates money to De

and De is not know for "thinking on smart solutions"

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

Something's got to give. You can't go left and right at once.

well yeah because warframe is in beta and de have like 5 employees, so you cannot expect a triple A team working on beta testing a weapon how is rewarding from a MR4 quest, and the quest in question lasts 2h max

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5 minutes ago, Greystrun said:

You're the one who mentioned this mechanic, I'm just saying that it's not even worth doing so

 

4 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

sorry but it being a "unique interaction" is not worth to mention when it is useless in 99.99% of the content

because broken specter can heal you if you use it in a corpse but

A No one use it because it is a S#&$ty melee
B it is a S#&$ty interaction

exact like xoris

Doesn't change what the design intent is. I am not quantifying its relevance, usefulness or viability. Merely pointing out its existence because that's how it was designed to be.

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Just now, Jarriaga said:

 

Doesn't change what the design intent is. I am not quantifying its relevance, usefulness or viability. Merely pointing out its existence because that's how it's intended to be used.

yeah so why not remove the melee after the quest ? because we don't need it anymore

also i am not mad because xoris is nerfed

i am mad because De do this type of thing all the type, launch something without testing it and punish players for investing on it

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9 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

we are talking about DE here forgot ? "convenient" mean Fun and this word is banned in game

also it reduce the need of riven so De need to remove it because Riven generates money to De

and De is not know for "thinking on smart solutions"

I'm playing this game long enough to learn how to do it and have fun, how not to depend on rivens, how not to complain on every s### decision DE made. But this is one bridge too far... Nerfing mediocre weapon just because it's convenient (and thanks to it fun) is just below the belt... I spent too much time playing this game, and faaaaar too much money on platinum, but that's it. After all the "great" updates in 2019 and early 2020, and this... They won't see a broken penny from me...

Edited by Adi1908PL
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Just now, Adi1908PL said:

I'm playing this game long enough to learn how to do it and have fun, how not to depend on rivens, how not to complain on every s### decision DE made. But this is one bridge too far... Nerfing mediocre weapon just because it's convenient (and thanks to it fun) is just below the belt... I spent too much time playing this game, and faaaaar too much money on platinum, but that's it. After all the great updates in 2019 and early 2020, and this... They won't see a broken penny from me...

remember void keys raids GVG ? yeah me too, after the good will De did earn on 2019 it all died after this nerf wave

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2 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

yeah so why not remove the melee after the quest ? because we don't need it anymore

also i am not mad because xoris is nerfed

i am mad because De do this type of thing all the type, launch something without testing it and punish players for investing on it

The most disconcerting thing about this, for me, is that DE continuously avoid the topic of Rivens being a subtle, yet predatory form of gambling ingame. The good rivens are locked behind multiple layers of RNG, horribly overpriced (lots of players will spend real money to buy plat in order to get rivens) and generally balanced poorly (continuously changing dispositions/stats based on a weapon's popularity rather than the overall effectiveness of the weapon).

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Just now, Leqesai said:

The most disconcerting thing about this, for me, is that DE continuously avoid the topic of Rivens being a subtle, yet predatory form of gambling ingame. The good rivens are locked behind multiple layers of RNG, horribly overpriced (lots of players will spend real money to buy plat in order to get rivens) and generally balanced poorly (continuously changing dispositions/stats based on a weapon's popularity rather than the overall effectiveness of the weapon).

in this question De is like EA games, "it is not gambling it is surprise mechanics, you don't need it to complete the game"

 

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1 minute ago, paulogabbi said:

in this question De is like EA games, "it is not gambling it is surprise mechanics, you don't need it to complete the game"

 

I'm just waiting for the day someone exposes it as a form of gambling and DE gets lambasted with unfair reviews/criticism about it. We've asked that it be reviewed ever since it was implemented and nothing has been done.

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1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

I'm just waiting for the day someone exposes it as a form of gambling and DE gets lambasted with unfair reviews/criticism about it. We've asked that it be reviewed ever since it was implemented and nothing has been done.

i am sure jim sterling is going to talk about this at some point

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2 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

remember void keys raids GVG ? yeah me too, after the good will De did earn on 2019 it all died after this nerf wave

I even remember when Banshee parts were dropping from defence missions or Ember had her own "ashy" armor (ability no.2) thanks to which she was nearly unkillable. But that's not the point.
I was writing about 2019 in a sarcastic way (didn't put the "..." above great updates - my bad, SORRY). They messed up the whole last year, and the beginning of this one. I always tried to understand and defend them. But after this one?? hell no. there are many good games in the market that will cost me less than warframe. it just hurts that such a potential is being wasted by irrational decisions that are scaring players off.

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6 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

If you have a problem with this then take it to DE. They make the rules, not you or me. If some weapons are outliers for their expected MR performance ballpark bracket not accounting for Rivens then they should be adjusted. That doesn't change what the design intent is.

It being the design intent doesn't make it reality. Similarly, the stated intent behind rivens is helping bad weapons close the gap to good ones, but everyone knows that's not how it works. Bad weapons remain bad regardless of rivens, and the only rivens people actually care for are ones that squeeze even more power out of weapons that are actually good.

You can attribute it to DE being incapable of making the game reflect their statements, or you can attribute it to them being disingenuous and saying one thing then doing another. Regardless, pretending it's the actual state of things and using it to justify it some things while others stand blatantly in opposition to a given rule just isn't the way to go.

Xoris is likely stronger than all glaives aside from Glaive Prime, yet most of them have higher MR requirement. There is only one reason why it's MR 4 and not something else - DE doesn't gate new content from beginners even when it's the sensible thing to do, because Warframe lives and dies by the new update hype. The quest starts off easy, sure, but no average MR 4 player is prepared for the Protea fight at the end.

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Just now, Adi1908PL said:

I even remember when Banshee parts were dropping from defence missions or Ember had her own "ashy" armor (ability no.2) thanks to which she was nearly unkillable. But that's not the point.
I was writing about 2019 in a sarcastic way (didn't put the "..." above great updates - my bad, SORRY). They messed up the whole last year, and the beginning of this one. I always tried to understand and defend them. But after this one?? hell no. there are many good games in the market that will cost me less than warframe. it just hurts that such a potential is being wasted by irrational decisions that are scaring players off.

remember void being hard ? banshe actually being good, def T4 being hard as nails because Vor as broken, stalker being actually hard, having meaningful events  from 3 to 3 months ? actually good rewards ?

yeah it was a good time

for me warframe  died when Tencent did buy a part of it and we did learn about the kids "operators" it was a heavy blow to me because i was not a space ninja but now i am a space babysitter


(well i did come back to warframe on 2020 so i did think it was serious sorry)

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That's an ugly hack of a nerf. I have no opinion on the balance, but having a weapon fizzle out because you used a skill sounds like it'll feel terrible in practice.

I wonder if a balanced system could be worked out where using an exalted weapon skill would cause the Xoris to simultaneously detonate like you triggered it during a throw, with the same relative combo loss. That'd feel like an actual mechanic.

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6 minutes ago, RFaul said:

I really am afraid of 2.... More nerfs inc?

That's what I think will happen, with Rivens being removed entirely because of the optics in this thread about DE doing this so people keep buying stat stick Rivens.

7 minutes ago, RFaul said:

This is such a bad interpretation of the game. Using Xoris with infinite duration is just convenient not to have to refresh charges once in a while but this kind of gameplay already existed for ages!!! In fact in many of these examples using Xoris was a bad choice from damage perspective. Seriously it was just a fair trade: less  damage for not having to refresh charges once in a while or even choosing a different school of focus.

This is so bad, so many times in this game a weapon gets nerfed to trash status because it offered a different effect that opened up different approaches to gameplay.
 

I do sincerly believe that undoing nerfs like AoE changes, nerfs to Trinity and weapons with different effects like Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace, Zenistar, others that were affected by not doing headshots, Basmu  and others from  would cause more diversification than what we have now.

DE made mistake by mentioning the damage output when they meant that the level of convenience was pushing people towards such builds because of how easy they were now with little to no investment. I don't think they want people using the Xoris for the purpose of it being nothing more than a stat stick, so they'd rather kill it.

10 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

well yeah because warframe is in beta and de have like 5 employees, so you cannot expect a triple A team working on beta testing a weapon how is rewarding from a MR4 quest, and the quest in question lasts 2h max

I hope no one ever holds you to your own standards. From the bottom of my heart and with no ill-intent.

9 minutes ago, paulogabbi said:

yeah so why not remove the melee after the quest ? because we don't need it anymore

also i am not mad because xoris is nerfed

i am mad because De do this type of thing all the type, launch something without testing it and punish players for investing on it

Likely didn't remove it because they want you to use it in Granun Void? It's not unique to the quest.

And yes, DE do this often. But there's no way around it without the expectation of them never making a mistake anymore and from now on. The best you can do is not flock to whatever is new that a very large number of people seem to be flocking to, because DE don't like that. They have warned us. They told us with Kuva Bramma. They told us to Catchmoon. I am expecting a Kuva Nukor nerf any time now. It's the same story and will remain the same story because:

X usage > Y usage = DE are OK with this.

X usage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Y usage = DE not OK with this.

 

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