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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

That's what I think will happen, with Rivens being removed entirely because of the optics in this thread about DE doing this so people keep buying stat stick Rivens.

DE made mistake by mentioning the damage output when they meant that the level of convenience was pushing people towards such builds because of how easy they were now with little to no investment. I don't think they want people using the Xoris for the purpose of it being nothing more than a stat stick, so they'd rather kill it.

I hope no one ever holds you to your own standards. From the bottom of my heart and with no ill-intent.

Likely didn't remove it because they want you to use it in Granun Void? It's not unique to the quest.

And yes, DE do this often. But there's no way around it without the expectation of them never making a mistake anymore and from now on. The best you can do is not flock to whatever is new that a very large number of people seem to be flocking to, because DE don't like that. They have warned us. They told us with Kuva Bramma. They told us to Catchmoon. I am expecting a Kuva Nukor nerf any time now. It's the same story and will remain the same story because:

X usage > Y usage = DE are OK with this.

X usage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Y usage = DE not OK with this.

 

yeah i know De LOVE to nerf anything fun, or if plays found a way to play the game in a way De don't want them to

"oh so you found a way to not need to buy rivens ?, too bad here a nerf, also remember 75% cheap platin cupon today"

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5 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

It being the design intent doesn't make it reality.

That's a failure of execution. Doesn't negate the intent.

5 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Similarly, the stated intent behind rivens is helping bad weapons close the gap to good ones, but everyone knows that's not how it works. Bad weapons remain bad regardless of rivens, and the only rivens people actually care for are ones that squeeze even more power out of weapons that are actually good.

That's yet again a failure of execution that seems to be now partially addressed by new weapons having a low disposition and unpopular weapons now gaining more than 2 pips. A change guided by the design intent. Still, there's more that needs to be done. The least popular weapons should have higher disposition than 5. All the way to 10 if need be. Otherwise the gap will always remain.

8 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

You can attribute it to DE being incapable of making the game reflect their statements, or you can attribute it to them being disingenuous and saying one thing then doing another.  Regardless, pretending it's the actual state of things and using it to justify it some things while others stand blatantly in opposition to a given rule just isn't the way to go.

I believe it has been both. They have to hold themselves accountable to their own words. People won't respect their decisions until they do.

9 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Xoris is likely stronger than all glaives aside from Glaive Prime, yet most of them have higher MR requirement.

Lower base damage. Lower crit chance. Lower status chance. Lower attack speed. Lower range. Worse damage distribution. It does a have higher crit multiplier, but the total DPS is still:

Xoris DPS: 180

Glaive Prime DPS: 250

The only thing it has going for it is the infinite duration, which you can use to replace the duration mod with a damage mod. But if that's the argument test with Naramon as you don't need duration for either. Xoris is more desirable because of its infinite combo trait. But its stats fall behind Glaive Prime, thus respecting the performance ballparks based MR bracket. 

21 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

There is only one reason why it's MR 4 and not something else - DE doesn't gate new content from beginners even when it's the sensible thing to do, because Warframe lives and dies by the new update hype. The quest starts off easy, sure, but no average MR 4 player is prepared for the Protea fight at the end.

The difficulty of the quest is not necessarily tied to the rewards of the quest, which is an argument for adjusting the difficulty of that fight. An MR4 player is very unlikely to be able to solo farm the last part of Protea on its own.

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Xoris wasn't being used because of the damage output it brings(there are better options for that, an option that also costs some players to spend plat on the riven market hmmmm). It was being used for the convenience of not having to deal with the combo timer. Why exactly are we nerfing something for the convenience it brings while saying that the damage output it brings is "overwhelming"?

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4 часа назад, Leqesai сказал:

He meant functionally. Granum void requires Xoris for the story and to free prisoners. There is literally no other option for the story component or freeing the prisoners.

Ah, that would be true.

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BTW, what about Relentless Combination and other mods that lost their functionality after melee 3.0?
Are they gonna get repaired? Seriously, tons of melee mods are not functioning at all.

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Well, this is dumb. Could you at least refund the forma and potato spent on this weapon I will probably never use again? My old stat stick weapon gave me more damage anyways, just means I'm back to babysitting my combo duration, because that's some fun and engaging gameplay.

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On 2020-07-01 at 1:01 PM, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

They are nerfing an OP interaction. Why people hate nerfs?

You think the Xoris interaction is "OP". OOOH BOY let me introduce you to RIVEN stat sticks my friend.

The Xoris should be left untouched. If the problem is the "OP interaction of the weapon with the warframe ability" Xoris is NOT the source of it. Doing it to only 1 weapon wille simply ignoring ALL the other Riven based stat sticks, that almost make you one shot +170 heavy enemies is NOT the way to fix this problem. Their attention should not be focused on the Xoris.

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2 hours ago, Adi1908PL said:

And just because people like stat sticks doesn't mean DE are OK with people flat-out only using it for the purpose of being a stat stick and nothing more than a stat stick.

Oh, but they're okay with people not using weapons at all? Just another mediocre weapon that used to be awesome, falls to the wayside as mastery fodder.

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Obligitory brozime debunking DE's argument video link for this page.
 



No DE I won't let this one go, not when it very much looksl ike to my uncharitable mindset that you are doing this to preserve riven prices, because stat stick rivens sell. 

Can't have anything threaten the lootbox malarky. NOOOPE nope nope nope absolutely can't have that and the xoris is a threat of convenience that people might go 'i COULD spent several hundred dollars worth of plat on that mire riven Ore i could use this weapon, miss out on damage, but also not have to think at all about combo ever again.'

 

Because no, I am not going to be charitable and assume ignorance here. Not when literally everyone seeing the infinity symbol on combo duration approximately half to two seconds later went 'I'm gonna put this on my stat stick warframe because i don't have naramon leveled/don't want to deal with combo even to that minimal degree.'

So which is it DE. Are you hopelessly stupid, or are you maliciously greedy?

Pick. One.

In the meantime on your 'super pinkie promised we are ABSOLUTELY looking at it' maybe pretty please evaluation of stat stick abilities... NOT nerf the one thing that makes me want to use xoris over glaive prime until you roll ALL the changes out.

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On 2020-07-01 at 10:55 AM, [DE]Megan said:

As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole.

Imma be honest, this one line in the entire post is what truly annoys me. This kind of remark during scarlet spear, when limbo got his "nerf" twords sentients, makes perfect sense. But, on a weapon like the xoris, this is inexcusable.

By nerfing the xoris in this way, you will effectively be doing the opposite of what supporting diversified loadouts. The reason for this revolves completely around the melee weapons that would be considered the "meta" for this exact use case. A major example of a "meta" stat stick would be the venka prime, a melee weapon that can reack a combo multiplier of 13X, and with a full combo, can offer a bonus 1440% crit chance boost to weapons, on top of the normal combo multiplier boosts. Another "meta" weapon would be the jaw sword, a melee weapon with such a high riven disposition, that you could replace multiple mods as a result of your rivens stats, and thats before you factor in the combo meter.

Now, what can the xoris do that could top these two weapons that are broken without abilities? It offers players flexibility, it offers convenience, it gives newer players a reason to even care about the combo system. Nerfing this weapon in such a massive way will reduce its status to that of the paracesis, a cool looking weapon that you may use when you're farming for something, and that's it. 

And before i give my last statement, i'd like to give some context from where my opinion is coming from. I am not a person who has used any of the frames that get a major benefit from this weapon (besides the Excalibur umbra that I haven't even figured out how to use with the xoris), and i implore anyone who wants to, please look me up on pc (Adrian_DSAT) and you will see that i am by no means lieing about making this post with no malicious intentions (sent a message or meme gift if ya wanna to prove your point). But to get back on topic, when it comes to the combo system, the system is extremly annoying to get going, reason being that everything gets blown up before you can do anything with it, so, having a weapon like this actually makes the entire system fun, even though you can only get a 7X combo before the portal opens in sanctuary onslaught.

For my final statement id would just like to reiterate that this nerf will make this weapon worthless in the eyes of many, it will get sold by newer players when they see that they can't use it for any fun nuke builds, and it will collect dust in the inventories of the people who decide to keep it for the granum void. And with the lotus as my witness, id love to challenge anyone who says that this weapon is overpowered, and i'd love to take them into any form of content, and show them that this weapon is only good as means of introducing new players to three concepts at once; the glaive system, the combo system, and the stat stick system.

This has been you local memer Adrian with your daily challenge. Praise excal prime, and good luck out there Tenno.

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you know, i'm glad i'm experiencing this. in the future when i talk to someone who played warframe, THIS and things like it are going to be at the forefront of the conversation.

it's not going to be about the aspects of the game we liked, it going to be about how DE ruined their game by completely ignoring its players and were laughably transparent about their desire to promote platinum purchases through nonsensical balance patches. 

it's honestly unprecedented as far as i can tell. i feel like i'm a part of history! 

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So not only is the Xoris going to be useless for these Warframes, but it's going to be actively detrimental to them?

DE, please at least make the Xoris memorize and restore your built up Xoris combo as soon as you stop using your exalted weapon (or transfer over the exalted combo when you switch back to Xoris, whichever was greater).

Otherwise, you just turned a good weapon into one that now has no redeeming qualities, AND is going to hurt your gameplay if you use it with these Warframes...

Edited by KitMellow
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5 minutes ago, KitMellow said:

So not only is the Xoris going to be useless for these Warframes, but it's going to be actively detrimental to them?

You could at least make the Xoris memorize and restore your built up Xoris combo as soon as you stop using your exalted weapon (or transfer over the exalted combo when you switch back to Xoris, whichever was greater).

How did you turn a good weapon into one that now has no redeeming qualities, AND is going to hurt your gameplay if you use it with these Warframes?

See @[DE]RebeccaTHIS. This right here. This thing.

Stop the thread guys. THIS IS THE EXACT THING!

This is fair! This solves the problem that DE puts forward that they have (even if I think their reasoning is transparently false) and goes 'here, it won't work with the exalted weapon, but using yoru exalted weapon won't work against the new toy we gave you.'

This... is fair. This is a compromise solution that still reduses build diversity and nudges people back to the riven market, but it doesn't activly hurt people who like the xoris's infinity combo mechanic and a frame with a stat stick ability.

Can we please have this instead? please and thank you.

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On 2020-07-01 at 12:01 PM, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

They are nerfing an OP interaction. Why people hate nerfs?

Because "OP" and "convenient" are not the same thing, the Xoris is used because it is convenient, not because it is OP. This witch hunt is just stupid and I do not advocate this change as it only makes players go back to using w/e other melee they used before that they had an OP riven for, literally the same thing just slap on naramon focus and the only thing that changes is the damage numbers sore higher for the loss of convenience...

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14 minutes ago, Electric.Sheep said:

you know, i'm glad i'm experiencing this. in the future when i talk to someone who played warframe, THIS and things like it are going to be at the forefront of the conversation.

it's not going to be about the aspects of the game we liked, it going to be about how DE ruined their game by completely ignoring its players and were laughably transparent about their desire to promote platinum purchases through nonsensical balance patches. 

it's honestly unprecedented as far as i can tell. i feel like i'm a part of history! 

Put the pitchfork down please, we don't need to treat them like the American Government just yet my dude, just give constructive feedback because they do still care, they just make bad decisions now and then.

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Seems DE has no idea what they are talking about. whoever is incharge of this nerf nonsense. play your game for a while. this post was completely filled with mis-information that xoris is being powerful. it does not even come close to glaive prime or for the matter the the another quest weapons we had were skiajati and paracesis. Xoris is worse than skiajati in terms of everything except xoris has better 1% crit chance and 0.3x extra crit multi. that alone will not makes it over powered with synnergy because far better scalable weapons exist. so look into the feedback and try to retract your statement of nerf for xoris.There is no point in overcomplicating an interaction and making few more lines of code or a class just for this weapon, players use this weapon only to not use the naramon passive as they can rely on zenurik for energy which is far more essential, there are some times where i pick some other arcane instead of energize just that i am using zenurik so i can focus more on survivability or tankyness, Xoris at the stage DE gives to player so early that anyone can atleast use with a synnergy based warframe like baruuk, ash, valkyr, because lets say players will get valkyr way before they know what a xoris is. and to them it is just a warframe that takes up a slot so they can use it later and lets face it these early player will have no idea what gladiator mods are or what is zenurik or naramon is. there are a lot of angle we as a player could look into and this is not the way you as a Developer look into the matter. this kind of forum post makes your impression as a Developer so bad that we seriously say the statement of DE NEVER PLAY THEIR OWN GAME. and i see no reason to believe that Developers at DE had no idea regarding the system they Developed. 

Edited by WP13200
adding few more lines
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What, seriously!? As a new player that doesn't have much in a way of high end gear and mods or access to the schools, the xoris was  good addition. Now that's being taken away, after all the forma I put into that thing and the time and resources which are limited. I don't have millions of raw materials like people that's been playing for years.  Dude really? I believe there are other bugs in game that actually hinder gameplay that has not been fixed and yet you go after poor Xoris, that seems to be one of the saving graces especially for rookies. 

So pls reconsider and fix the bugs that are more game breaking.

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14 hours ago, TheOneFromAnotherPlace said:

Nerfing the Xoris interaction does not address the "overwhelming damage output" by the pseudo-exalted abilities, the explicitly stated reason for the nerf.

Why do you only quote the first part of the statement? To make proving your point more convenient? Let's be fair here.

On 2020-07-01 at 7:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon

See? They are fine with overwhelming damage output in case of exalted/semi-exalted weapons, they just don't want an infinite combo counter.

I don't support their decision though. The whole stat-stick stuff is stupid and should be removed entirely. Exalted abilities should be rebalanced accordingly, semi-exalted abilities should have separate modding.

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2 hours ago, Kefka said:

Put the pitchfork down please, we don't need to treat them like the American Government just yet my dude, just give constructive feedback because they do still care, they just make bad decisions now and then.

you know, ima Kafka and by extension ff6 antagonist fan, so i'll tell you what, i'll keep the farming instrument in my hands, but i'll put off setting the fire for the time being.

see? isn't compromise a wonderful thing?

Edited by Electric.Sheep
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I seriously "couldn't" exited for any new weapons that come out if thing like this keep happens really! i'm sorry, really sorry but the reason it limited choice is DUMP! you can go watch Brozime video that he explain clearly why here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SlKS9RtIJk

Then this is what will happen: no one using this weapon anymore except for one game mode it use in! and ok... so exited

Edited by phantomGrey
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yeah no, could you maybe not? As many people have pointed out, the Xoris wasnt used for some overpowered interaction as a stat stick, in fact many other weapons with strong riven dispositions are way more powerful as Rivens apparently effect warframe abilities, the Xoris was used because it was convenient to not have to refresh your combo multiplier and jump out of your exalted weapon every 15 seconds

If the Xoris was considered too strong for a convenience at least then be consistent and also remove the interaction between melee rivens and warframe abilities 

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