Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Tittakemen]

DE is wasting time and resourses on a  small matter like the xoris, again failing to look beyond spreadsheet numbers . The biggest QOL  DE can  accomplish is  fixing the AI, there are issues with when mobs repeat the same actions like for example a grineer  butcher running in circles [ really?]. Throwing more grind fests content is lacking imagination when they plenty of existing elements that could be used .

[LoneWolf9989]

On 2020-07-01 at 6:01 PM, TKDancer said:

just remove the weapon then, glaive prime beats it as a glaive and its gimmick was useful specifically on those frames

also make sure to give us back our forma 😕

That would only exacerbate things. The weapon is almost required for GV, due to the charge mechanic, that could only really work well with glaives, due to the specters almost exclusively aerial movement. Since not everyone would have a glaive at the point of the Deadlock Protocol quest, it would only follow that a free glaive is given.

In terms of the forma invested, I feel that people are overreacting. Forma is incredibly easy to obtain nowadays. I can obtain like 15 BPs from 1 hour of fissures, and they aren't expensive to build. The worst part is the time taken to build them, which is quite fair, given all the other factors. I feel that refunding forma won't fix people's issues with these events, but they demand it anyway, as if 3-5 Forma can make up for everything, yet they'll still complain.

[(PSN)ironfist_94]

10 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

That would only exacerbate things. The weapon is almost required for GV, due to the charge mechanic, that could only really work well with glaives, due to the specters almost exclusively aerial movement. Since not everyone would have a glaive at the point of the Deadlock Protocol quest, it would only follow that a free glaive is given.

In terms of the forma invested, I feel that people are overreacting. Forma is incredibly easy to obtain nowadays. I can obtain like 15 BPs from 1 hour of fissures, and they aren't expensive to build. The worst part is the time taken to build them, which is quite fair, given all the other factors. I feel that refunding forma won't fix people's issues with these events, but they demand it anyway, as if 3-5 Forma can make up for everything, yet they'll still complain.

u missed the point by such a large margin idk where to even begin. instead i'll ask: what's the purpose in downplaying player feedback? sure some people post silly or irrelevant concerns but these are all valid criticisms. this is one of the only games where you can invest hours of your time and have nothing to show for it. it's time. the Devs should value our time and it's quite clear they haven't for a long time. they're lazy and just look at spreadsheets to discern "issues" within the game and more often than not completely miss the mark. the Xoris is not the issue and this nerf is inconsistent with their own logic.

[(NSW)RATHURUE]

33 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

That would only exacerbate things. The weapon is almost required for GV, due to the charge mechanic, that could only really work well with glaives, due to the specters almost exclusively aerial movement. Since not everyone would have a glaive at the point of the Deadlock Protocol quest, it would only follow that a free glaive is given.

Yeah about that...there's always another way to do it. If they make another Lenz twith same passive as Xoris (i.e. first explosion kills enemy, the collapsing energy sucks the specter energy and leave them as empowered arrow that does instakill bigger AoE blast, just like how Arca Triton passive works) with projectiles that can be detonated mid-flight like Bramma, this problem won't even happened in the first place. Heck if they made another Synoid Simulor with same special ability it's still work. But then why they made Xoris a glaive with unlimited combo time? Because those design will be an overlap with already existing design. Atop of that, DE wanted to make players use glaive more. This problem was DE's own creation, and they should feel bad about it

[Pure7865]

On 2020-07-01 at 4:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack, or if you die.

So ugh...this is, wrong? It doesn't directly amplify the damage of said abilities any more so than other stat sticks already did?

The one thing that the Xoris did, was make it more convenient to use those abilities, because you didn't have to worry about your combo duration dropping to zero if you couldn't find an enemy. The only difference between the Xoris and other stat sticks is that (generally due to lacking enemy spawns) you have to micromanage another 'bar' in game to avoid losing your combo counter. 

So the one issue you have with the Xoris, is in fact....not an issue? Like, at all? 

The "overwhelming Damage output" the Xoris achieves, can be matched by the other stat sticks that already existed in the game before the introduction of the Xoris.

 

Honestly, I don't like to see you taking Quality of Life buffs away from the game, rather than adding them.

 

I would love an actual explanation of why you feel the need to do this? 

 

Aside from this nerf, I think you guys generally do a pretty ace job and I really appreciate the content you pump out, and the time you put in! ^^

[Deminisis]

I never got into the khora whipclaw stuff or any other semi-exalted weapons until recently. It didn't take much playing around to realize just how OP mod interactions can be with these, and I never even used the xoris. I threw some crit mods plus a crit riven on furax wraith and found myself one shotting 20 Level 175 heavy gunners at 12 stacks. A high disposition riven-ed weapon can outperform the xoris you're freaking out about. You're not addressing the real issue.

I think the best way to go about this is make all exalted weapons mod-able. The riven stat sticks are what you should be looking at.

Edit: Maybe adding innate combo decay for exalted weapons could give this some quality of life. I'm pretty sure the issues with combo duration are what has caused this whole fiasco.

[LoneWolf9989]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)ironfist_94 said:

they're lazy and just look at spreadsheets to discern "issues" within the game

Lazy? No.

Slightly out of touch would be a better way of putting it.

 

Looking at spreadsheets? Yes.

But there's nothing wrong with that. Those spreadsheets aren't useless, and is the most concise way of representing the incredibly noisy data that a game produces. There's a reason so many people use Theoretical DPS calculators. It strips down all the complicated stuff surrounding those calculations, giving clean Data.

 

9 minutes ago, (PS4)ironfist_94 said:

what's the purpose in downplaying player feedback?

What do you think was the entire purpose of the PTC? Sure it took a lot of effort, but that's what it's for. But even so, Player feedback isn't the only thing to consider. How something makes the games systems should also be considered, sometimes separate from player opinion.

 

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ironfist_94 said:

this is one of the only games where you can invest hours of your time and have nothing to show for it.

In terms of veterans, yes. But a game that's existed as long as WF has will always eventually have players who find nothing to do. It's unavoidable, unfortunately. But in terms of the newer players, you cannot be more wrong.

 

Honestly, I feel that people just have a knee jerk reaction to the word 'nerf'. People say the Bramma was nerfed. No, it was just balanced. The Xoris is the same. It created an over centralized build. Same as with Simulor Mirage.

[(PSN)psykenmo]

There needs to be a better solution than this... So I can get all the benefits of the Xoris with every single frame except ones with exalted weapons...? I can increase damage with Rhino, Mirage, Chroma, etc, can stand in 1 spot using Mesa's 4th and just auto-aim kill everything, can infinitely scale Gara's 2nd to literally walk into enemies without even using a single weapon, but the solution to a weapon with an innate ability that you knew was going to cause issues is to make so we have to choose whether we want to keep our combo count or use our exalted weapon... Maybe a better solution is to actually give every frame their own specific weapon type that they are profient in or even mods that do similar things. More options, mean the players actually can make their own meta.

[(PSN)ironfist_94]

1 hour ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Lazy? No.

Slightly out of touch would be a better way of putting it.

 

Looking at spreadsheets? Yes.

But there's nothing wrong with that. Those spreadsheets aren't useless, and is the most concise way of representing the incredibly noisy data that a game produces. There's a reason so many people use Theoretical DPS calculators. It strips down all the complicated stuff surrounding those calculations, giving clean Data.

 

What do you think was the entire purpose of the PTC? Sure it took a lot of effort, but that's what it's for. But even so, Player feedback isn't the only thing to consider. How something makes the games systems should also be considered, sometimes separate from player opinion.

 

In terms of veterans, yes. But a game that's existed as long as WF has will always eventually have players who find nothing to do. It's unavoidable, unfortunately. But in terms of the newer players, you cannot be more wrong.

 

Honestly, I feel that people just have a knee jerk reaction to the word 'nerf'. People say the Bramma was nerfed. No, it was just balanced. The Xoris is the same. It created an over centralized build. Same as with Simulor Mirage.

Granted, I take everything you said into consideration so I think it's fair to say that DE also has knee-jerk reactions to usage charts. Ultimately, it's up to them to integrate player feedback and their own professional knowledge into each update. I'll admit the community overreacts a lot but you also have to admit that DE is very inconsistent and arbitrary with their decision making. This nerf does not address the over-arching issue and it wouldn't even be necessary if pseudo-exalted weapons were properly balanced.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

6 hours ago, (NSW)RATHURUE said:

If nuker frame bothers you so much, why don't you play solo? Warframe is perfectly, entirely possible to do solo.

If you want to play a nuker, why don't you play solo? No need to wilfully ruin the fun for other people.

See? It's pointless to argue, i'm just letting DE know my point of view.

[Generalized_Games]

Maybe someone can clue me in here. I don't understand why the Xoris is getting this functionality and synergy with warframe abilities removed.

Is it being overused?

Maybe because it's new and easy to build for. It's basically given to you for finishing a quest, of course it's going to be widely used being this easy to obtain.

Is it too powerful?

I can make much more powerful builds using any good Riven disposition melee weapon. But that's the catch, it requires a good or great Riven. Something much harder to get than a quest reward weapon.

Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't understand why a convenient function of a decently interesting throwable weapon is being removed. It's both a decent melee, but if you're in a place you need better than a decent melee it makes a great tool for your warframes that can make use of a stat-stick. As much more powerful as some of my other stat-stick builds are, it's boring keeping an eye on the bottom right corner of my screen all the time to make sure I don't lose my combo. This weapon allowed me to sacrifice some overall power for the convenience of being able to just focus on playing the game, rather than a timer in the corner of my screen. I'm just really struggling trying to justify this change in my mind, is there something I'm missing here?

Maybe this point has already been brought up in the thread and I just missed it. Forgive me if I don't want to read, as of now, 46 pages of discussion.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

On 2020-07-01 at 12:03 PM, CrimsonPenguino said:

You want to know an even easier solution? Make it so that these abilities are separately mod-able, like exalted weapons are. I have mostly heard of people using this as a stat stick for khora, atlas, etc. so an easier fix would be to make it so that you could mod those abilities so you don't have to worry about this. I don't know why that isn't a thing as it is. 

This concept sounds really interesting, but I am not sure I completely understand. Could you give a more detailed example?

[Atalandros]

Le 04/07/2020 à 04:47, DreadWarlock a dit :

 

Sorry but the Bramma nerf was well deserved, stop complaining about that.

Hey daddy, I'm entitled to complain about pretty much what I want, thank you.

Anyway, the goal wasn't to complain about the nerf itself, but to point out what I feel were the real reasons behind it, and to stress out a possible pattern behind some questionable (some may say absurd) decisions DE made recently concerning the balancing of the game. 

You should really consider expressing your disagreement with other people without patronizing them.

[BladeZerker]

On 2020-07-01 at 5:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Greetings, Tenno!

Within The Deadlock Protocol Quest brought the Xoris: a Glaive weapon capable of chaining Melee Combos infinitely. The design intention behind the infinite combo mechanic was predominantly added for the Granum Void’s charged throw moments, to allow you to retain your charges until you were ready. This mechanic opened up new avenues for Melee builds to maximize this infinite Melee Combo Duration, which is great! 

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice. This was our oversight, our mistake, and we apologize for the time it took to formulate a plan and address this. So let’s break down our plans:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved, or the Mods that amplify the issue (Blood Rush / Weeping Wounds / Gladiator Mod Set), as doing so isn’t fair as it’s a reaction to a single weapon. In turn, we have planned to only change the interactions with the Xoris directly. 

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack, or if you die. Thus scaling with Warframe Abilities that are amplified by your Melee Combo multiplier (Ash Blade Storm, Atlas Landslide, and Khora Whipclaw), and even more so when equipped with Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds.

The second issue: The interaction with the Xoris and Gladiator Mod Set for Warframe Exalted weapons. The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe weapons such as Baruuk’s Serene Storm, Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, Valkyr’s Talons and Wukong’s Iron Staff.

The solution: The change coming with The Steel Path Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons reset the Melee Combo Counter ONLY if the Xoris is being used. What you’ll see now is the Critical Chance bonus applying to the first hit on abilities that are intended to scale with regular Melee Combo Multiplier, but then the Melee Combo is reset by the Ability, and does not apply to subsequent hits unless you build it up again with Xoris itself. Exalted Melee ultimates will reset the Xoris' Melee Combo Counter at the time of cast. As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole. 

In conclusion, Warframe Abilities / Exalted Warframe weapons affected by this are:

• Ash Bladestorm
• Atlas Landslide
• Baruuk Serene Storm
• Excalibur Exalted Blade
• Khora Whipclaw
• Valkyr Talons
• Wukong Iron Staff

 

Special note: Gara’s Shattered Lash will now scale with Melee Combo Counter, to be consistent with Khora Whipclaw and Atlas Landslide. The same Xoris restriction will still apply.

TLDR: Certain Warframe Abilities and Exalted weapons will reset the Melee Combo Counter only if the Xoris is being used.

We’ll be continuing to observe how the Xoris interacts with the above when The Steel Path Update arrives in your hands, and our apologies again for the wait. 

Thank you!

Well I did my rant about the Xoris a while back but now I feel like I can provide some actual feedback to this upcoming nerf.

The Xoris itself isn't the problem, it never was. It's merely a semi-solution to an existing problem with the synergy or lack thereof with warframe pseudo-exalted abilities and to an extent exalted abilities. They mostly use a stat-stick and operate off an existing combo counter which is primarily reserved for a melee weapon. 

Here are some suggestions as to how you can change and/or improve the system;

1. Make these abilities separately moddable for those that have them. Make it so the user can clearly see which mods affect the abilities they are modding and how the mods will change the behaviour. Don't simply make an interface containing all melee mods. Make a new one. Perhaps also add new ones that are exclusive to these abilities that give interesting effects when certain conditions are met. This will also remove the need to hunt down rivens for stat-sticks. (I personally don't have an issue with rivens, their stats carrying over for abilities, just the way they are maintained) As many other users on this thread have pointed out you have the exact same and mostly better damage output using whatever melee other than Xoris you have equipped. The ONLY difference is that fact that you need to run Naramon Focus school with the combo counter decay feature instead.
2. The combo counter. This is the meat of the problem, the duration and maintaining it. For the abilities make it so it's either longer by default with 10+ secs or make it decay naramon-style. This is WHY Xoris is convenient. It removes the need to micromanage something that can potentially spell doom in an intense game session such as arbitration survival or a long survival endurance run. Especially if like me you play with random people and some, if not most, are either; careless, unfamiliar with the game mechanics or just over/underestimate the power levels and damage that their warframe or the enemy is able to put out. Or make it infinite, why do we have to micromanage something that laready costs energy and will reset to 0 once energy runs out (like with Excalibur).
3. As far as I can understand the Gladiator mod set bonus was never stated to ONLY work when equipped on the melee weapon that the warframe wields so I don't think you should even consider nerfing this. The power gained simply doesn't warrant it, especially since with the impending launch of a new game mode with much beefier enemies it will probably be needed.
4. You DON'T need to nerf everything for the sake of some bland balance. In the case of Xoris you are not pushing players towards diversity, you are literally DESTROYING an option and by extension a weapon for a handful of frames that benefit from it. A player using Khora, Atlas or Baruuk in a squad of 4 does NOT utilize this infinite combo duration passive in a way that actually hurts or hinders the experience of other players, in fact, I'll wager it's the opposite. If this player had used ANY other melee, and probably with a riven they would most likely achieve better results, again just running a different focus school and a slightly different mod setup.

I also have some other suggestions written below:

 

Regarding the Combo Counter.

1. You can change this to a Meter instead, with 3 bars.
2. The Meter can be charged by hitting/killing enemies with applicable melee weapons with the latter charging it by a higher amount.
3. Can be expended 3 times in rapid succesion to deal a flashy Heavy Combo of sorts or one Heavy attack at a time.
4. can be charged to deal a massive AoE damage spin-type attack or move which will consume all 3 bars, deal massive damage and depending on weapon type will either pull in enemies/ragdoll/ or propel the warframe a certain distance forward. Imagine dropping a massive Hammer while doing a Moonsault backwards, for example. Or a Judgement-Cut style attack like Vergil does in the Devil May Cry series.

 

Regarding Excalibur

The poster boy for Warframe and also the poster boy for many nerfs.

1. Slash Dash - Why does this ability not benefit from mods installed on the exalted blade? Feels like it should. The invulnerability can stay, the energy expenditure makes up for it. Alternatively it can store "charges" per enemy hit/killed that when he activates his 4th he will deal either; increased dmg by % for X amount of seconds or gain a shield that lasts x amount or can absorb x amount of enemy hits. or maybe even an aura that deals damage.
2. Radial Blind/Howl - Stays as is, perhaps change it so it makes the combo counter go up by 4 when using slash dash on enemies and 8 when executing them.
3. Radial Javelin (I have played and play Excalibur alot and had to actually look up the name, that's how bad this ability is.) - You have over the years pretty much gutted this ability as a response to the Draco farming squads. That problem is now gone, we have many different options for leveling weapons and frames quickly yet this ability remains gutted. Why doesn't this benefit from the combo counter and/or the mods installed on the exalted blade? Why is it only 12 javelins or however many they are? It can be chargeable, it can have synergy with the first ability. Slash dash alot, build meter, unleash radial explosion. When enemy health is below a certain threshold make it deal "execute" damage. The energy drain already offsets a change like this, why not implement it? Why doesnt it even look like it does in the recent trailer? It's augment can use some love too.
4. Exalted blade - Again, same argument as others, it's an exalted melee super weapoon. Yet Excalibur seems to have forgotten how to mod it. Doesn't accept any shadow debt mods. Damage falls off with distance, which makes 0 sense other than to counter the "turret-style gameplay" which could have been countered by having an internal monitor that counts the seconds you are immobile and THEN lowers damage depending on the time. This is also the reason why people will pick Khora, Baruuk or Atlas, they simply don't have this limiter built into their kits. The radial blind when you slide attack has to go, it's nerfed state more than inconveince, it is USELESS. While it was semi-useful before it was deemed too spamable, got nerfed and has yet to be touched upon again. Why not replace this with something cool and useful, like a Whirlwind Slash (2 or more 360 degree spins) that perhaps as trade-off deals only 75% of total damage and applies on-hit status effects?

Excalibur has in my opinion the coolest type of power fantasy playstyle that Warframe tries to deliver. However thats only in the trailers and on the ability images when viewed in the Arsenal. In practice, Excalibur simply doesn't deliver. He, like many other game mechanics in the game is too inconsistent.

 

Lets talk about Atlas and his exalted ability.

Landslide- Many bugs with this one. If an enemy has been affected by a nullifier or an arbitration drone this ability will not be able to target them, they will remain immune. You can sit and spam it all day and that enemy will not be targetable by landslide. It also requires weird "line of sight", it is very picky about how the camera is lined up when you are targeting enemies and if they happen to have a small wall that hides a portion of their bodies they will not be targetable. This should also be moddable separately. The augments for it, especially the heap one, can be buffed to 2000 and have the bonus 2x damage apply beyond the 1500 mark. or at least lower the threshold to 1250, 1400 is a bit too high especially when you play with 3 others, you are dependant on having to stone and THEN break the enemy using up all your energy in the process and not even getting to 1k.

 

Regarding Ability augments:

The operator has a skill tree, why not warframes? With the addition of new augments one tends to wonder why isn't there a dedicated slot for one of those? That would be a great quality of life improvement instead of having to forma, re-forma, get a new frame for a new specific build etc. Some like Atlas have augments for their passive which directly affects damage output done by his first ability. But if I want to mod for a tiny bit of utilty I have to forego that damage. Some mods like Natural Talent which SPEED UP casting time would actually make sense if they utilized the "exilus" slot.

 

Regarding the Rivens:

The reroll mechanic is tedious, at best. Having the ability to keep desirable stats would be most welcome. Of course with some kind of resource trade involved. The unveiling is also tedious, at least for me, I would rather pay some form of in-game resource currency to unveil it without having to do the challenge, at least as an option to opt-out. I have never felt that rivens are lootboxes though I can see from a certain perspective how they could be considered as such. For me they are simply there, if I have a good one I'll use it, if I feel like a certain weapon could benefit from it I'll try to get one for it. What holds me back most of the time is the fact that I know it will be nerfed based on popularity and that's a really bad system. Even if they were introduced to make older and perhaps obsolete weapons more in-line with current ones why stick to that original idea? Why not evolve it? 

This is something I have been thinking about;

1. Rivens can be made upgradeable. And have their own rank system. Tiers 1 through 5.
2. They can start at Tier 1 or 0.5 for the absolute lowest depending on how far you want to stretch the grind. Highest rank for Maximum Riven tier earned through drops would be 1.5 after unveiling, mastery rank can factor in here (higher MR meaning higher % for a better tier and stat roll).
3. Mastery Rank can also be used to determine the strength of the riven on how well into the game a player is, how familiar with the weapons etc. It would start at say rank 8 or perhaps 10 and then the final coveted god tier can be rank 26.
4. Following the above, add a system that allows us to fuse rivens of the same type. Like we have with the Kuva Valence system and the RJ parts. This would fill a meter when increased to full will bump the riven tier up to a new tier. When fusing rivens the player will be able to choose which stats of the riven they intend to keep, and they will increase in accordance to the tier level.
5. To offset the potential of this becoming a "riven mafia" issue you could make it so Rivens above Tier 3 are account-bound and un-tradeable. They can be exchanged for other rivens of a random variety perhaps or maybe a high kuva amount or maybe a high endo amount depending on what the player needs. The player will have to carefully manage his/her inventory and be consistent in what weapon they intend to collect rivens for since it will still be limited.
6. Since these god-rolls now become sole property of the player invested in them they are no longer being sold at ridicilous prices by people with god's hand on their shoulders or too much time on their hands.
7. The final stats will ofc have to be a bit higher than the current 1.5 dispo, perhaps 1.8 or maybe even a flat 2.0. Imagine a Braton Tier 5 Riven with 300% dmg, 250% multishot, 90% fire rate, -80% zoom. (if you intend to keep the current 3-4 stat formula.)
8. The rivens for more popular weapons can have reduced drop chances and be rare that way, it will be one way to keep the current popularity method in use.
9. If by some chance this system sounds like a good idea it can be implemented with relative ease. For those voicing concern over the current Riven situation DE can simply freeze all riven drops, and the current rivens in players inventories from being sold or traded. Then simply configure all current rivens in game owned by players to have the same tier so everyone starts the same. If you follow the 2.0 dispo suggestion those who have invested so far wont lose much. And some will even gain. This of course if the Tier is somewhere between 2 and 3. Anything above 3 will result in the riven being untradeable.

 

Final thoughts

I can go on and on about many things but in all honestly I sincerely doubt any of this will even be considered. I really and truly cannot understand how you as developers do not see the way that your playerbase has innovated over the years. How they come up with gimmicks, synergies, playstyles, efficient tactics and more. This should pose as a challenge for you as a developer to do better and come up with more challenging content. Instead you resort to penalizing your playerbase by removing viable options in an effort to preserve the very broken content you yourself deliver. As far as not playing your own game, you have pretty much proven that you don't, otherwise you would have seen how efficient Limbo was for Scarlet Spear, how Venari was capable of healing objectives etc etc. Limbo brought quality of life to a very lackluster mobile defense variant. Not having a Limbo meant spending alot more time, losing potentially a higher payout and having to generally struggle more due to how the enemies scaled in the missions, particularly the RJ ones. Did any of you test your MK3 RJ weapons against enemies outside? or maybe the Forward Artillery? There is a reason no one did. And I'm not even gonna touch the issue of "not enough kill codes to go around".

If a certain game mode can become too easily beaten or cheesed then that game mode needs to be more dynamic, contain more shifts in difficulty which require player attention and actual utilization of skills learned. Failing a mission for example should happen because of human error, not because the system suddenly decides you have had "enough" at wave 12 of ESO and since you are not using Saryn or other suitable nuking frame you dont deserve to go further.

The whole "conversation" about "If you don't use Xoris, you are doing it wrong" does not come from the players. I play and converse with an active clan that shares all kinds of quirky builds, playstyles, synergies and many other useful tips and tricks and until I read this post I have never heard them talk about the Xoris that way. In fact most of them wrote "you can use Xoris until you can find a 4 or 5 point riven to use as a stat-stick instead". The Xoris isn't the problem DE, it's the inconsistency in the current game mechanics, how they are implemented and how they interact.

A knee-jerk reaction nerf to a weapon based on usage stats (which we still don't know how you consider) alone is only gonna make things worse.

Also the "issues" you have stated above and what this intended "solution" is supposed to fix is full of misinformation. To finally top it off you are letting us know that you have considered nerfing the abilities as well. We are playing this game because it allows us to whoop ass with flashy, high damaging abilities and weapons while also looking cool AF....not as mediocre space toddlers that struggle vs a mediocre mid-level AI that somehow has 100% accuracy from across the room using a Detron who can also spin around 180 degrees and OHKO you if need be. Not to mention the "overwhelming power" the Ancient Disruptor has, since they can buff their own with the same damage type and strip you of energy, shields and health which requires you to have a full set of Arcane Energize as a QoL tool. Also they can lie in wait or even spawn/teleport at the perfect moment to kill you while you run to extraction when life support has run out and everyone else is dead.

[Lutesque]

12 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Honestly, I feel that people just have a knee jerk reaction to the word 'nerf'. People say the Bramma was nerfed. No, it was just balanced.

Was it ?

My issue with the Bramma was not  that i thought it was overpowered so much as i thought it encouraged an extremely degenerate play habbit. 

And you know what.... that hasnt changed....

People hyping up the bramma as overpowered has resulted in a nerf that doesnt fix the underlying issue.

I feel like the same thing is happening with The Xoris...

7 hours ago, Generalized_Games said:

Maybe someone can clue me in here. I don't understand why the Xoris is getting this functionality and synergy with warframe abilities removed.

Its either They nerf the Xoris or actually address the real issue.... the annoying nature of how the melee combo counter works and the steps you have to go threw just to make it alot less annoying.

Naturally they decided to take the easy way  out by nerfing the Xoris.... putting us right back to the annoyance of how the Combo Duration works.

7 hours ago, Generalized_Games said:

Is it too powerful?

I can make much more powerful builds using any good Riven disposition melee weapon. But that's the catch, it requires a good or great Riven. Something much harder to get than a quest reward weapon.

For any other weapon type sure but Good Melee Rivens are not actually difficult to come by, since so many Melee Weapons arr rubbish its easy to just unveil something with a 5 point Riven Disosition.

And since the Xoris is not a worthy adversary for Melee Rivens, all the Xoris has going for it is its consistency.... Rivens actually do give you absurd amounts of damage...  which... isnt that the whole point of The Steelpath ? To deal more damage ?

 

[Ice_Peck]

13 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Lazy? No.

Slightly out of touch would be a better way of putting it.

 

Looking at spreadsheets? Yes.

But there's nothing wrong with that. Those spreadsheets aren't useless, and is the most concise way of representing the incredibly noisy data that a game produces. There's a reason so many people use Theoretical DPS calculators. It strips down all the complicated stuff surrounding those calculations, giving clean Data.

 

What do you think was the entire purpose of the PTC? Sure it took a lot of effort, but that's what it's for. But even so, Player feedback isn't the only thing to consider. How something makes the games systems should also be considered, sometimes separate from player opinion.

 

In terms of veterans, yes. But a game that's existed as long as WF has will always eventually have players who find nothing to do. It's unavoidable, unfortunately. But in terms of the newer players, you cannot be more wrong.

 

Honestly, I feel that people just have a knee jerk reaction to the word 'nerf'. People say the Bramma was nerfed. No, it was just balanced. The Xoris is the same. It created an over centralized build. Same as with Simulor Mirage.

 

We can literally prove they're lazy with the next mainline update.

 

How much work do you think is required to just add Lv+100 and add Sortie Shield + Armor augment and a 2x HP modifier to pre-existing missions?

 

It's a rhetoricle question. This is what we're getting as a mainline update they spent two months on.

 

Amazing....

[(PSN)ironfist_94]

5 minutes ago, Saberfrost said:

 

We can literally prove they're lazy with the next mainline update.

 

How much work do you think is required to just add Lv+100 and add Sortie Shield + Armor augment and a 2x HP modifier to pre-existing missions?

 

It's a rhetoricle question. This is what we're getting as a mainline update they spent two months on.

 

Amazing....

lmao good point.

[Bohba13]

I want to know if they're reading this. So far it's all been radio silence.

[Ice_Peck]

1 minute ago, Bohba13 said:

I want to know if they're reading this. So far it's all been radio silence.

Nope.

 

Scott himself personally said it himself in an interview he was invited to by Shy, that the vast majority of staff does not look at their forums, or anything critiquing them off platform because of "how toxic it is." So they forward it to Glenn so he can "interpret it for them."

[Bohba13]

Likelyhood of glenn forwarding brozime's video? 

Because that's pretty much what we are all saying.

[Ice_Peck]

It's like Shy stated a long time ago.

 

Only way to get DE to listen is to just scream too loudly for them to ignore across various platforms.

[(PSN)ironfist_94]

1 minute ago, Bohba13 said:

Likelyhood of glenn forwarding brozime's video? 

very unlikely. they're too sensitive to be objective. In his interview with Shy, DE Scott called Brozime's videos "soul crushing" lol I find it very hard to sympathize with a Dev who thinks that way. 

[carrymaker]

Dont nerf my favirite weapooon

[kgabor]

18 minutes ago, Saberfrost said:

scream too loudly for them to ignore across various platforms.

'They talk about my one taps.'

 

[Sukets]

On 2020-07-01 at 1:01 PM, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

They are nerfing an OP interaction. Why people hate nerfs?

This wasn't even an OP interaction, just a QoL one. Now I'm obligated to play with Naramon again, that is all this change did.