Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[ProfessorGava]

ok so basically its not a "nerf" but its a nerf. the main reason people are using this melee is being taken away. ight cool

[(NSW)zook-pl]

So No combo bonus at all for Xoris + Abilities at all.

why it will reset? Dont will be beter of using Ability will temporally reeneble combo decay for Xoris?

[(PSN)Yggranya]

8 hours ago, (PS4)ironfist_94 said:

very unlikely. they're too sensitive to be objective. In his interview with Shy, DE Scott called Brozime's videos "soul crushing" lol I find it very hard to sympathize with a Dev who thinks that way. 

If you don't kiss their ass, they ignore it. It is what all game developers do, especially MMO developers. You need to get at least half the playerbase up in arms and all the (S#&$)streamers for them to tell you "we made a mistake". Hah!

This does not guarantee that they actually do much, of course. Makes one wonder, do they go to twitter and such places to listen to praise, because they have an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves?

[SordidDreams]

22 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Looking at spreadsheets? Yes.

But there's nothing wrong with that. Those spreadsheets aren't useless, and is the most concise way of representing the incredibly noisy data that a game produces.

Yes, but the real question is how you interpret that data. Say for instance that a weapon is being used by a disproportionate percentage of the player base. This time it's the Xoris, before that it was the Catchmoon. What does a high usage % mean, though? DE seems to think it means the weapon is too powerful and needs to be nerfed in order to drive players away from it.

Buuuuut... it's a videogame. Everything people do in it, they do because it's fun. If people choose one gun over another, it's because they find it more fun. Now yes, power is part of that, a strong gun is more fun than a weak one, but it's not the only factor. I'd argue that both in the case of the Catchmoon and even more clearly with the Xoris, the real reason for the high usage is the convenience (which is why I still use the Catchmoon, because that got nerfed in power, whereas the Xoris is having that convenience removed). Regardless of which factor is the main one, at the end of the day, nerfing things because they're used too much is nerfing them because they're too fun.

That's to say nothing of the fact that the entire logic underpinning DE's balancing decisions is founded on the premise that having a clear "best in slot" item is a bad thing, and I'm not convinced of that in the first place.

[memic]

Remove statstick concept at all

[Ikusias]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

If you don't kiss their ass, they ignore it. It is what all game developers do, especially MMO developers. You need to get at least half the playerbase up in arms and all the (S#&$)streamers for them to tell you "we made a mistake". Hah!

This does not guarantee that they actually do much, of course. Makes one wonder, do they go to twitter and such places to listen to praise, because they have an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves?

maybe this year they went "virtual" tennocon more for fear of rotten tomatoes and other produce aimed at them than anything else?

This last two years have been an unmitigated disgrace for the game: every single update was either a bugged mess, a new and abandoned content island, or damage mitigation of the above.

[darkthundercristal]

I don't support this Nerf, I don't think the Xoris was "that strong".

This Nerf will just kill the weapon Xoris, nothing else, the warframes will continue to be as strong as they were, just less accessible! And let me tell you what that means: That means that this F2P play not P2W game is not soo much F2P anymore, since you can use Real Money to PAY for a RIVEN and get the exact same POWER!

Overall, I'm glad that Gara got that updated, but sad for the rest.

 

[kingowenslim]

On 2020-07-01 at 11:55 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Greetings, Tenno!

Within The Deadlock Protocol Quest brought the Xoris: a Glaive weapon capable of chaining Melee Combos infinitely. The design intention behind the infinite combo mechanic was predominantly added for the Granum Void’s charged throw moments, to allow you to retain your charges until you were ready. This mechanic opened up new avenues for Melee builds to maximize this infinite Melee Combo Duration, which is great! 

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice. This was our oversight, our mistake, and we apologize for the time it took to formulate a plan and address this. So let’s break down our plans:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved, or the Mods that amplify the issue (Blood Rush / Weeping Wounds / Gladiator Mod Set), as doing so isn’t fair as it’s a reaction to a single weapon. In turn, we have planned to only change the interactions with the Xoris directly. 

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack, or if you die. Thus scaling with Warframe Abilities that are amplified by your Melee Combo multiplier (Ash Blade Storm, Atlas Landslide, and Khora Whipclaw), and even more so when equipped with Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds.

The second issue: The interaction with the Xoris and Gladiator Mod Set for Warframe Exalted weapons. The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe weapons such as Baruuk’s Serene Storm, Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, Valkyr’s Talons and Wukong’s Iron Staff.

The solution: The change coming with The Steel Path Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons reset the Melee Combo Counter ONLY if the Xoris is being used. What you’ll see now is the Critical Chance bonus applying to the first hit on abilities that are intended to scale with regular Melee Combo Multiplier, but then the Melee Combo is reset by the Ability, and does not apply to subsequent hits unless you build it up again with Xoris itself. Exalted Melee ultimates will reset the Xoris' Melee Combo Counter at the time of cast. As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole. 

In conclusion, Warframe Abilities / Exalted Warframe weapons affected by this are:

• Ash Bladestorm
• Atlas Landslide
• Baruuk Serene Storm
• Excalibur Exalted Blade
• Khora Whipclaw
• Valkyr Talons
• Wukong Iron Staff

 

Special note: Gara’s Shattered Lash will now scale with Melee Combo Counter, to be consistent with Khora Whipclaw and Atlas Landslide. The same Xoris restriction will still apply.

TLDR: Certain Warframe Abilities and Exalted weapons will reset the Melee Combo Counter only if the Xoris is being used.

We’ll be continuing to observe how the Xoris interacts with the above when The Steel Path Update arrives in your hands, and our apologies again for the wait. 

Thank you!

Hello everyone I strongly disagree that the xoris needs a nerf just cuz of it's interaction with khora whip, they wanna nerf towards ash bladestorm when ash has a very very slow kill time and playstyle and it doesn't make him overpowered it's not like the mods affects & buff his 4th next atlas no one plays this frame well most don't, there's no point in this nerf players might pick this frame up because  of xoris. Valkyr I've had this from for so long and haven't formed it I was willing to test this out but the buff wasn't worth it next wukong xoris don't buff wukong 4th enough to make it op now we got excalibur's 4th xoris didn't buff it at all and every time I used my 4th with excal I had to restart my combo while the xoris combo was still at 12x same for valkyr and wukong, now here's baruuk yes the 12x combo bugs his 4th but there are downsides to his ability 1st you have to charge his 4th to be able to use it and the xoris combo then when your 4th runs out you gotta recharge it again and baruuk's 4th doesn't have a combo multiplier so it's okay kinda to leave it and now we have khora to talk about this weapon will be getting nerf because of her 1st ability but there's way more weapons out there which overpowered her 1st ability like the mire jaw sword and amphis with their high riven disposition with all 3 of those weapons they out shines xoris at high lvl play with jaw sword touching can 1 S#&$ level 7000+ enemies very easy at a 12x combo and with the naromon tree class you can stay at a 12x combo so why don't nerf those weapons you've just added the Xoris and already wanna nerf it I suggest DE focus on fixing the bugs and making new content instead of so many nerfs. And they're only nerfing this weapon because of the next update to come hard mod which will keep players playing for only 2-4days. Is it really worth the nerf for content that will last only 2-4 days? "Don't correct my grammar or my paragraph." Just read to understand my run on.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2020-07-01 at 9:55 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Greetings, Tenno!

Within The Deadlock Protocol Quest brought the Xoris: a Glaive weapon capable of chaining Melee Combos infinitely. The design intention behind the infinite combo mechanic was predominantly added for the Granum Void’s charged throw moments, to allow you to retain your charges until you were ready. This mechanic opened up new avenues for Melee builds to maximize this infinite Melee Combo Duration, which is great! 

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice. This was our oversight, our mistake, and we apologize for the time it took to formulate a plan and address this. So let’s break down our plans:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved, or the Mods that amplify the issue (Blood Rush / Weeping Wounds / Gladiator Mod Set), as doing so isn’t fair as it’s a reaction to a single weapon. In turn, we have planned to only change the interactions with the Xoris directly. 

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack, or if you die. Thus scaling with Warframe Abilities that are amplified by your Melee Combo multiplier (Ash Blade Storm, Atlas Landslide, and Khora Whipclaw), and even more so when equipped with Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds.

The second issue: The interaction with the Xoris and Gladiator Mod Set for Warframe Exalted weapons. The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe weapons such as Baruuk’s Serene Storm, Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, Valkyr’s Talons and Wukong’s Iron Staff.

The solution: The change coming with The Steel Path Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons reset the Melee Combo Counter ONLY if the Xoris is being used. What you’ll see now is the Critical Chance bonus applying to the first hit on abilities that are intended to scale with regular Melee Combo Multiplier, but then the Melee Combo is reset by the Ability, and does not apply to subsequent hits unless you build it up again with Xoris itself. Exalted Melee ultimates will reset the Xoris' Melee Combo Counter at the time of cast. As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole. 

In conclusion, Warframe Abilities / Exalted Warframe weapons affected by this are:

• Ash Bladestorm
• Atlas Landslide
• Baruuk Serene Storm
• Excalibur Exalted Blade
• Khora Whipclaw
• Valkyr Talons
• Wukong Iron Staff

 

Special note: Gara’s Shattered Lash will now scale with Melee Combo Counter, to be consistent with Khora Whipclaw and Atlas Landslide. The same Xoris restriction will still apply.

TLDR: Certain Warframe Abilities and Exalted weapons will reset the Melee Combo Counter only if the Xoris is being used.

We’ll be continuing to observe how the Xoris interacts with the above when The Steel Path Update arrives in your hands, and our apologies again for the wait. 

Thank you!

This is dumb. 

 

1) Naromon exists. 

 

2) DE is fine with other stat sticks, which with rivens and augments are MORE powerful. 

 

3) psuedo exalted melee weapons need to have their own mod screen already.

 

4) exalted melee weapons need to be able to mods like blood rush and weeping wounds. They should be stronger than normal melee weapons otherwise whats the point of spending energy on that ability.

[paulogabbi]

well De don't care about players input, this is why others MMO joke about it all the time, because De don't #*!%ing read the forum

[Lutesque]

I find it hilarious this Nerf is coming in The Steel Path Update.... you know full well they are going to have to buff so many warframes and weapons assuming they are going to release it in the state it is in The Test Cluster.... 

They should save themselves the headache now by not nerfing anything that they will just have to Unnerf Later...

The Xoris isnt even one of those things.... I have two Viable Rivens that outperform the Xoris's Supposedly Insane Damage DE Thinks it has.

[Tittakemen]

 I gotta ask the most obvious question . Why did they not catch  this  potential issue via testing ?

[paulogabbi]

3 minutes ago, Tittakemen said:

 I gotta ask the most obvious question . Why did they not catch  this  potential issue via testing ?

because De don't test stuff, this is not the first time something like this happens

[Leqesai]

8 hours ago, Ikusias said:

maybe this year they went "virtual" tennocon more for fear of rotten tomatoes and other produce aimed at them than anything else?

This last two years have been an unmitigated disgrace for the game: every single update was either a bugged mess, a new and abandoned content island, or damage mitigation of the above.

Oh come on. I am definitely against the Xoris nerf but your comment is a little over the top. Warframe has always had buggy patches/updates. It isn't just a "this last two years" thing.

[KVenom]

UPD: Tried the glitch myself, on all frames in the list, Except for Valkyr and Khora, those were tested by friend.

Gotta say, I am dissapointed.
All this noize when it, at best, can barely hold against Nuke frames, like Saryn?
You do realise, that if such a "glitch" is not even overpowered like this, "unbugged" frame, then it's not that much of a game breaker.
I strongly suggest 2 options:
1.Either Nerf Saryn,
or
2.At least consider making this little bug a feature. Let all the melee passives to interact with exalted abilities. Unlike certain secondary/primary ones, like Arca Scisco, those are relatively tame. We want more options, and Exalted Weapons need some love. This "bug" existed ever since the Exalted weapons were added into the game(Exalted Blade).

[KVenom]

11 часов назад, Ikusias сказал:

maybe this year they went "virtual" tennocon more for fear of rotten tomatoes and other produce aimed at them than anything else?

This last two years have been an unmitigated disgrace for the game: every single update was either a bugged mess, a new and abandoned content island, or damage mitigation of the above.

Jeez, don't be so melodramatic. The game is fine, and it gets better with time. The Railjack got fixed, the Liches getting rework, the whole content islands thing drifts closer into the same hosh-posh.
But yeah, it is not the best 2-year period of Warframe's updates, it has it's downs, including the rushed buggy updates, Exalted weapons being shafted by melee 3.0, and the whole Umbra Forma problem.

[kingowenslim]

1 hour ago, KVenom said:

UPD: Tried the glitch myself, on all frames in the list, Except for Valkyr and Khora, those were tested by friend.

Gotta say, I am dissapointed.
All this noize when it, at best, can barely hold against Nuke frames, like Saryn?
You do realise, that if such a "glitch" is not even overpowered like this, "unbugged" frame, then it's not that much of a game breaker.
I strongly suggest 2 options:
1.Either Nerf Saryn,
or
2.At least consider making this little bug a feature. Let all the melee passives to interact with exalted abilities. Unlike certain secondary/primary ones, like Arca Scisco, those are relatively tame. We want more options, and Exalted Weapons need some love. This "bug" existed ever since the Exalted weapons were added into the game(Exalted Blade).

This is not even a bug stats stick has been around from the time ash was reworked more so when khora was added they just wanna nerf it because they are introducing hard mode trash which will last for a couple of days. They don't have content they nerf stuff to make it look like content.

[--K--Sharkfin]

I stand with a nerf, but I am disappointed with a nerf that makes something from "must use" to "totally useless". Before the introduction, anyone should have predicted it's OP when it applies infinite combo duration.  There is a reason why we have mods and Naramon that increase duration in the first place.

Now with the coming nerf the xoris is going to hinder anything that uses it as stat stick, it would be better not to use it at all.

P.S. is xoris really OP as of today?  Not really. Is it really a must use? Nah. It just makes life easier if not "noob-proof" in any kind of missions. We could achieve even higher damage with the combination of riven + naramon + 6s duration mod after all.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

10 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Oh come on. I am definitely against the Xoris nerf but your comment is a little over the top. Warframe has always had buggy patches/updates. It isn't just a "this last two years" thing.

It's not just warframe, nowadays every game company just releases an unfinished update and just patch it later (or, like in warframe, take YEARS to patch anything, just ignore all the reports about it and sing "LALALALALA can't hear you") just need to make it barely playable. Barely.

[GREF_TM]

19 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

4) exalted melee weapons need to be able to mods like blood rush and weeping wounds. They should be stronger than normal melee weapons otherwise whats the point of spending energy on that ability.

Thing is, just giving an option to equip blood rush on something like exalted blade or iron stuff won't solve underlying problems with them. Desert wind, which is already very good and makes other exalted weapons look like crap, will get even more ridiculous, yeah, but other three will still be relatively meh. Proper rebalancing is needed: stats, special properties (like energy waves), stances - all this should be looked at.

And while we're at it, yeah, statstick abilities can be rebalanced too - as already said countless times before, they could get their own modding page that obviously wouldn't allow rivens (i remember something about DE not willing to make frame rivens, but rivens that double-triple the damage dealt by certain abilities are fine i guess), stop scaling with melee combo counter, but have their base stats buffed significantly in order to compensate for such a huge damage drop (on a case by case basis of course, atlas should get more generous buffs than khora for example).

After all that, suddenly, introductions of new things like xoris won't unexpectedly cause any "broken", "overpowered" and "unintended" interactions (although anyone with at least a basic knowledge of how warframe works had seen this coming a mile away) won't be happening nearly as often, if at all. Riven sells in a statstick segment will tank a bit, yeah, but that's a story for another day.

[ProjektKrieg]

12 hours ago, Tittakemen said:

 I gotta ask the most obvious question . Why did they not catch  this  potential issue via testing ?

funny one xD

did you try to play railjack lately? its unplayable with 16ms ping to the host, they test nothing before release.

they release and adjust, you need something to put your forma and keep you "engaged"... 

[Lutesque]

12 hours ago, Tittakemen said:

 I gotta ask the most obvious question . Why did they not catch  this  potential issue via testing ?

Apparently nobody in DE's QA Department plays Khora/Baruuk.... or rather they did and came to the same conclusion we did.... its working like its suppose to.

8 hours ago, KVenom said:

UPD: Tried the glitch myself, on all frames in the list, Except for Valkyr and Khora, those were tested by friend.

Gotta say, I am dissapointed.
All this noize when it, at best, can barely hold against Nuke frames, like Saryn?
You do realise, that if such a "glitch" is not even overpowered like this, "unbugged" frame, then it's not that much of a game breaker.

I tried it too.... except i didnt use The Xoris.... i used my Telos Boltace.... Aaaaaaaand.... No Difference. 

If the Xoris is bugged then all Melee Weapons are bugged because you can do the same thing with them.... you just have turn your 4 Off to Poke a few enemies and then turn it back on to keep the Bonuses. It all depends on how much combo duration you can get from using all the Combo Duration Mods.... 

Body Count 12 Seconds 

Drifting Contact 10 Seconds 

Gladiator Rush 9 Seconds

Riven Mods (some long ass number i would imagine)

And ofcourse.... Swift Momentum 6-24 Seconds.

So thats a minimum of 37 seconds + whatever you get from a riven.... thats enough to stay over 200% Crit chance using only half of the gladiator set for over 90 Seconds (you have to use Naramon's Power Spike for this to actually work.) This literally only benefits Baruuk... again.... i wasnt even using the Xoris....

So.... Gara is getting buffed because of this nerf.... well....im just glad its finally happening. 

8 hours ago, KVenom said:

The Railjack got fixed

RailJack definitely did not get Fixed....  but thats for a different thread.

4 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

I stand with a nerf, but I am disappointed with a nerf that makes something from "must use" to "totally useless". Before the introduction, anyone should have predicted it's OP when it applies infinite combo duration.  There is a reason why we have mods and Naramon that increase duration in the first place

Yes... Convenience....

If having an Infinite Combo duration was actually "OP" then Zenurik wouldnt be the most used Focus School.... it would be Naramon and DE Wouldnt have bothered with The Xoris in the first place....

I dont see whats wrong with an infinite duration if your Multiplier is capped at X12.... i mean... isnt that the whole point of  the system.... your damage increases as your Multiplier increases ? 

 

I feel like DE Just nerfs things that are popular with the exceptions being Rivens.... The Zenistar got nerfed because thats  the most useful Weapon Tribute... not because it actually performs better than a majority of nelee weapons but low and behold one Riven + Corrupt Charge and the Zenistar almost feels normal again (im just 8 Combo Points shy from reaching 40 seconds... will have to check Semlar's calculator to see if its actually possible)

4 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

Now with the coming nerf the xoris is going to hinder anything that uses it as stat stick, it would be better not to use it at all.

Not really.... it only hinders Warframes with Explicit Exhalted Weapons that have their own dedicate mod slots....

If you were using Khora, Atlas or Gara then you can do better than The Xoris (mostly because Gara gets NOTHING from Combo right now) 

For my Khora i have a Glaive Riven with 263% Crit Chance and 150% Crit Damage and minus Attack Speed.... i also have a Dragon Nikana Riven with 220% Crit Chance and and 115% Crit Damage....  and even if i didnt have those rivens i can still do better than the Xoris just by going with The Jaw Sword with the Augment.... but i using Skiajati before i got these rivens so i wouldnt have to spend forma on something else to make the Sacrificial Set fit.

For my Atlas I have nothing.... i have a heatsword riven but dont have the actual heat sword itself so i cant use that....

For my Gara i have a Skana with Bright Purity Augment... and even if the Xoris wasnt getting nerfed i would still be using this over it.... maybe.... it depends on how DE Plans on making Shattered Lash scale.

 

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Guys, please remember that the Xoris itself is not getting nerfed. Nothing about the weapon stats is changing. Only how they interact with Warframe abilities.

[ProjektKrieg]

40 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Guys, please remember that the Xoris itself is not getting nerfed. Nothing about the weapon stats is changing. Only how they interact with Warframe abilities.

if there comes a change, for one weapon and it makes it objectively useless, its a nerf for the weapon, period.

dont argue about terms that are older as your funbox.

[GREF_TM]

59 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

This literally only benefits Baruuk

This benefits all four exalted melees + ash (but ash doesn't need naramon).