Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Leqesai]

9 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Yeah, there was, but what the Xoris did, is it make the boost it provided infinite. That's the unintended part. The Simulacrum does not represent game play. Once it can be done using the same gear in a MISSION, then it'll be valid.

Your points are valid. They are also points which have been extensively discussed across 50 pages in this thread. The issue is not the factual issue with xoris the issue is with de's claim and lack of accurate description of the problem. 

 

As well as the obvious naramon plus combo duration argument which has also been discussed at length. 

[KosmicKerman]

9 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Yeah, there was, but what the Xoris did, is it make the boost it provided infinite. That's the unintended part. The Simulacrum does not represent game play. Once it can be done using the same gear in a MISSION, then it'll be valid.

While it may have been unanticipated, it wasn't unintended. It worked exactly how DE coded it. There is no bug here and the "fix" is a complete hack. DE has just lost track of all of the interactions in the game. DE should have a better tracking system or should have hired consultants to prevent this from happening.  DE also should have refunded the forma people put in the Xoris. This is no one's fault but DE's and they have failed to fully accept responsibility for their mistake..  Players should not be paying the cost of that mistake. Nor should they be fed inaccurate information on why the change was made. DE's conduct here should not be excused.

[LoneWolf9989]

40 minutes ago, ZloGlaZ said:

Edit: I have read more of your posts and oh my god, you are fanboy on the righteous path of white-knighting 🙂 

Um... how do you know? If you read beyond the lines I have defending DE from certain people, I have never said they were perfect.

43 minutes ago, ZloGlaZ said:

It was more to your initial post and how this was phrased:

"Thank you for changing this. While it was an unintended interaction with those skills & abilities it sure was abused once people found out about it. 

For anyone salty about the Xoris changes... Did you really think they were just going to leave it alone? We all knew this was coming from the day it was discovered!"

and right back to you: And if you could read beyond 3 sentences before getting pissed you'll see that.

That wasn't something I said.

[LoneWolf9989]

2 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

DE also should have refunded the forma people put in the Xoris.

If DE refunded the forma people put into a weapon or warframe that was later nerfed, I guess I missed the Bramma refund, because everyone was talking about that being Nerfed.

[iSiawPrime]

8 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

Players should not be paying the cost of that mistake

This ^.
Believe it or not most people used 3-5 forma + catalyst for the Xoris. Converted to money that’s about 5 dollars. 5 dollars that players lost because DE decided to change an “unintended” feature that was obviously coded without any mistake ( The Xoris even has an infinite symbol next to the duration).

[KosmicKerman]

8 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

If DE refunded the forma people put into a weapon or warframe that was later nerfed, I guess I missed the Bramma refund, because everyone was talking about that being Nerfed.

This isn't a rebalance of a weapon. They didn't change the stats on the xoris. This is a fundamental change in game mechanics for a specific weapon. No other melee weapon resets combo when warframe abilities are used. Moreover, the change occured because DE messed up and failed to keep track of all of the game's interactions. Every single knowledgeable player understood the effect an infinite combo melee would have on Warframe abilities that use stat sticks.  There's not a single excuse for DE not knowing this because it is their business to know.

P.S. I'm not thrilled with the nerf of the Bramma or the staticor or any other weapon that receive heavy investment only to be made irrelevant by nerfs from DE. However, none of those actions are equivalent to DE's actions with the Xoris and do not warrant the scorn DE has fully earned from how they have handled the change to the Xoris.  What they should have done is been honest and said we didn't realize the implications of making an infinite combo melee, we are sorry, here is your forma back.

[iSiawPrime]

Even the Bramma or the Catchmoon weren’t nerfed as bad as the Xoris. What would happen if the Bramma suddenly loses all AoE and the Catchmoon becomes a sniper? You change the main features of that weapon. That’s what happened to the Xoris.

[Acmeth]

So somewhat useful weapon became not useful at all and should just gather dust at the bottom of the inventory or get sold for that negligible amount of creds. 

[OniGrimm]

So basically, it is trash now. Never have i wasted formas/catalyst/time one one weapon THIS much. Seriously, this weapon had one job, one useful aspect. Now it's useless. Freeing prisoners in granum void? Come on...

[-Ironheade-]

14 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Yeah, there was, but what the Xoris did, is it make the boost it provided infinite. That's the unintended part. The Simulacrum does not represent game play. Once it can be done using the same gear in a MISSION, then it'll be valid.

It 100% can be done inside a mission. I‘m doing it right now on the Steel Path. The only difference between the Venka P and the Xoris is that the Venka allows for higher damage output at the cost of having to constantly hit enemies so your combo doesn‘t reset. And that‘s really not a challenge in missions where you would realistically need that high damage, because usually there are enemies everywhere anyway. Add Drifting Contact/Reflex Coil and Naramon/Zenurik passive and you‘re good to go.
All the Xoris did was remove the necessity to constantly have enemies around or alternatively use the bypasses stated above. Nothing more and nothing less. You don‘t need the Xoris at all for that kind of damage output. It just alleviated the micromanagement of keeping your combo count up.

Edit: Also, how did nobody at DE anticipate the Xoris becoming the budget stat stick of choice? Infinite combo duration has „STAT STICK“ written all over it.

[iSiawPrime]

32 minutes ago, -Ironheade- said:

Also, how did nobody at DE anticipate the Xoris becoming the budget stat stick of choice? Infinite combo duration has „STAT STICK“ written all over it.

They noticed the “overwhelming damage” 3 weeks after being released and a few days after the NSW patch.
The timing of the nerf is a bit too convenient...

[-Ironheade-]

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

They noticed the “overwhelming damage” 3 weeks after being released and a few days after the NSW patch.
The timing of the nerf is a bit too convenient...

I don‘t think there is malicious intent behind this. I just wonder how the devs could look at the Xoris and not think „Yeah, of course people are going to use this as a stat stick!“.

[iSiawPrime]

15 minutes ago, -Ironheade- said:

I don‘t think there is malicious intent behind this. I just wonder how the devs could look at the Xoris and not think „Yeah, of course people are going to use this as a stat stick!“.

I really wonder if they play their own game.

After I saw the Xoris nothing seemed good until I noticed the combo duration. That process of analysis took me what 15-30 seconds? And I immediately thought of a stat stick, while the team behind this game couldn’t think of anything in particular.

This gives huge feelings of them skipping the testing process to release content early, specially because the only ones who pay the price for their mistake are we, the players.

 

[CephalonPotassium]

On 2020-07-02 at 9:36 PM, ---RNGesus--- said:

Unless you are that 1 conclave guy from twitter who asked universal medallion's conclave standing removal....this won't work.

A man can only try.

[brilhantine]

"However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon"', lol, sometimes, i think you guys don't play your own game, but, it is a fair nerf, it's all about synergy, just watch this before release a new weapon or warframe, this isn't even the best statstick but ok, 

[Ixeal94]

Please undo the Xoris nerf. People used it out of Convenience, not Necessity. It most likely did more damage than the other Stat stick setups because we didn't have to waste time refreshing our combos. I personally hate having to stop the flow of combat to hit an enemy once just to keep my damage going. It sucks even more when Frames like Mesa, Equinox, and Octavia exist. They don't need to worry about a combo meter for starters, they only need enough energy which can easily be fixed by using Zenurik, Arcane Energize, or Hunter Adrenalin, and they only have to worry about pushing one button for their damage. Frames like Khora on the other hand must first built up to x12 combo, then they need enough energy, and THEN they get their damage. Khora is the only one that gets Combo duration from abilities, but Gara? Nope. Her Shattering Lash doesn't contribute to melee combo. I just got Gara and while I'm still learning how to manage her kit, I really hate having to stop everything I'm doing to keep my combo up. It's also extremely discouraging when I am trying to do so and my Splinter Shield has more range than my stat stick weapon resulting in me insta-killing anything before my stat stick can even reach it forcing me to loose my combo. In order for me to have both I need to use negative range have to literally rub up against the enemies to deal damage OR sacrifice damage on my stat stick and put Reach on it so it can actually out range my own ability to keep my damage on my 1 up. This means I can't increase my ability range TOO much that I out range my stat stick even with Primed Reach and I can't lower it too much or I will have to clip into the enemies to use her "infinite" damage. I don't know about you, but I feel that massively limits my build potential. I'd rather the Xoris do less damage than not being able to use it on that setup at all. My massive issue with playing Gara is that I have to manage too much to keep my damage up. If the Xoris hadn't been nerfed, I could focus on her actual game-play loop with however much range I wanted because I wasn't restricted to playing her entire game-play loop around the melee counter. 

[Mayhem-Ivory]

Ash was fun for just about a minute. Yeah, I’m here to complain about Ash. You could always use any weapon with ash, but Venka Prime was the best choice. With Xoris, there was a second choice, to give up a bit of damage and instead not have to find enemies all the time. For once, playing Ash was actually fun. Now Xoris in the only weapon that you CAN NOT use with Ash, because it resets your combo. It never was a weapon that you HAD to use, just one that made a few sub-par frames actually fun to play. Looking at Ash, Atlas, Baruuk. It had a chance to make Valkyrs Hysteria useful, so you didn’t have to use eternal war and Gram Prime. So now, those frames go back to the trash bin for me, i guess. Unless, and I will really hope for that, we can have the infinite combo duration back. Or maybe some other changes, I don’t know. But Ash is dead to me again. It was fun while it lasted.

[CephalonPotassium]

On 2020-07-02 at 12:13 AM, Sean said:

While I get that change, can we also see an adjustment to make the controls for Heavy Attacks consistent?

Holding Quick Melee for a Heavy Attack is more fluid than having it be a separate keybind, and having had to use the Xoris only was a reminder of that.

Heavy Attacks currently are just clunky to use, and all that really needs to be done is have a Toggle within the settings for if a person wants to have "Hold Quick Melee for Heavy Attack", then can still keep a separate line in the keybind configurations area.

It was super easy to accidently heavy with high atk speed weapons and lose all your combo before they removed it. DE recognised this and removed it. Though, adding an opt in feature like you said sounds a lot better as a compromise.

[LifeupOmega]

On 2020-07-11 at 2:50 AM, -Ironheade- said:

I don‘t think there is malicious intent behind this. I just wonder how the devs could look at the Xoris and not think „Yeah, of course people are going to use this as a stat stick!“.

The malicious intent is that they're fine with riven-powered statsticks, which means a plat exchange for a lot of players, which means DE makes money off their lootbox system. 

[Ender140]

On 2020-07-01 at 8:02 PM, Thanathros said:

... I never got why people complain about nerfing certain combinations that would be a "must have" to play. 

Seems fair to me.

Because now its a "must not have". Using Xoris with a frame that used a exalted weapons resets the combo for Xoris. Which is like half of the point on using Xoris?

Now warframe that uses exalted weapons can't use Xoris because even with the naramon passive, you'll lose combo count. Unlike weapons without the unique combo count of Xoris. Tho I'd rather not DE see this because they'll probably nerf naramon too

[Leqesai]

7 hours ago, LifeupOmega said:

The malicious intent is that they're fine with riven-powered statsticks, which means a plat exchange for a lot of players, which means DE makes money off their lootbox system. 

Bingo.

 

As much as I respect DE for working so hard on Warframe, the Riven system is one of the dirtiest forms of pushed gambling available in any game I've played. Especially because it doesn't look like gambling from many perspectives. 

But lets look at it for what it is.

1. RNG for acquiring veiled Riven

2. RNG for the unveiled Riven being for the weapon type that you desire (given the amount of weapons in the game this is a pretty large amount of RNG)

3. RNG for the system used to roll stats. Getting ideal stat rolls is already very rare, then getting good stats on those rolls is a whole extra layer of RNG.

Players trade and purchase Rivens at ridiculous prices. 300-10,000 platinum from what I see in trade chat.

DE has been very non-communicative on this front and continues pushing occasional balance passes related to Riven use. 
Eventually people will get wise to this predatory practice and there will be some major waves because of it. I would hope the higher-ups at DE have their statements prepared for when the press targets them as the next source for this 'loot box' style gambling. 

[Antthem]

Come on DE just undo the xoris nerf, remove stat stick from pseudo/exalted weapons and give some love to exalted weapons they really need a buff.

[LazyBunnyKiera]

So as of today, does gladiator set affect exalted weapons at all? or am i wasting slots that could be better filled with something else?

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-07-12 at 1:31 PM, Mayhem-Ivory said:

-snip-

Just to ask you what is your opinion on Ash?

[alseltas]

 

It’s clear DE still thinks the combo multiplier should not keep with ease while it is band-aid for those weak abilities.