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Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons


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2 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

DE also should have refunded the forma people put in the Xoris.

If DE refunded the forma people put into a weapon or warframe that was later nerfed, I guess I missed the Bramma refund, because everyone was talking about that being Nerfed.

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8 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

Players should not be paying the cost of that mistake

This ^.
Believe it or not most people used 3-5 forma + catalyst for the Xoris. Converted to money that’s about 5 dollars. 5 dollars that players lost because DE decided to change an “unintended” feature that was obviously coded without any mistake ( The Xoris even has an infinite symbol next to the duration).

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8 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

If DE refunded the forma people put into a weapon or warframe that was later nerfed, I guess I missed the Bramma refund, because everyone was talking about that being Nerfed.

This isn't a rebalance of a weapon. They didn't change the stats on the xoris. This is a fundamental change in game mechanics for a specific weapon. No other melee weapon resets combo when warframe abilities are used. Moreover, the change occured because DE messed up and failed to keep track of all of the game's interactions. Every single knowledgeable player understood the effect an infinite combo melee would have on Warframe abilities that use stat sticks.  There's not a single excuse for DE not knowing this because it is their business to know.

P.S. I'm not thrilled with the nerf of the Bramma or the staticor or any other weapon that receive heavy investment only to be made irrelevant by nerfs from DE. However, none of those actions are equivalent to DE's actions with the Xoris and do not warrant the scorn DE has fully earned from how they have handled the change to the Xoris.  What they should have done is been honest and said we didn't realize the implications of making an infinite combo melee, we are sorry, here is your forma back.

Edited by KosmicKerman
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Even the Bramma or the Catchmoon weren’t nerfed as bad as the Xoris. What would happen if the Bramma suddenly loses all AoE and the Catchmoon becomes a sniper? You change the main features of that weapon. That’s what happened to the Xoris.

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So somewhat useful weapon became not useful at all and should just gather dust at the bottom of the inventory or get sold for that negligible amount of creds. 

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So basically, it is trash now. Never have i wasted formas/catalyst/time one one weapon THIS much. Seriously, this weapon had one job, one useful aspect. Now it's useless. Freeing prisoners in granum void? Come on...

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14 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Yeah, there was, but what the Xoris did, is it make the boost it provided infinite. That's the unintended part. The Simulacrum does not represent game play. Once it can be done using the same gear in a MISSION, then it'll be valid.

It 100% can be done inside a mission. I‘m doing it right now on the Steel Path. The only difference between the Venka P and the Xoris is that the Venka allows for higher damage output at the cost of having to constantly hit enemies so your combo doesn‘t reset. And that‘s really not a challenge in missions where you would realistically need that high damage, because usually there are enemies everywhere anyway. Add Drifting Contact/Reflex Coil and Naramon/Zenurik passive and you‘re good to go.
All the Xoris did was remove the necessity to constantly have enemies around or alternatively use the bypasses stated above. Nothing more and nothing less. You don‘t need the Xoris at all for that kind of damage output. It just alleviated the micromanagement of keeping your combo count up.

Edit: Also, how did nobody at DE anticipate the Xoris becoming the budget stat stick of choice? Infinite combo duration has „STAT STICK“ written all over it.

Edited by -Ironheade-
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32 minutes ago, -Ironheade- said:

Also, how did nobody at DE anticipate the Xoris becoming the budget stat stick of choice? Infinite combo duration has „STAT STICK“ written all over it.

They noticed the “overwhelming damage” 3 weeks after being released and a few days after the NSW patch.
The timing of the nerf is a bit too convenient...

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20 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

They noticed the “overwhelming damage” 3 weeks after being released and a few days after the NSW patch.
The timing of the nerf is a bit too convenient...

I don‘t think there is malicious intent behind this. I just wonder how the devs could look at the Xoris and not think „Yeah, of course people are going to use this as a stat stick!“.

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15 minutes ago, -Ironheade- said:

I don‘t think there is malicious intent behind this. I just wonder how the devs could look at the Xoris and not think „Yeah, of course people are going to use this as a stat stick!“.

I really wonder if they play their own game.

After I saw the Xoris nothing seemed good until I noticed the combo duration. That process of analysis took me what 15-30 seconds? And I immediately thought of a stat stick, while the team behind this game couldn’t think of anything in particular.

This gives huge feelings of them skipping the testing process to release content early, specially because the only ones who pay the price for their mistake are we, the players.

 

Edited by (NSW)Siaw
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"However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon"', lol, sometimes, i think you guys don't play your own game, but, it is a fair nerf, it's all about synergy, just watch this before release a new weapon or warframe, this isn't even the best statstick but ok, 

Edited by brilhantine
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Please undo the Xoris nerf. People used it out of Convenience, not Necessity. It most likely did more damage than the other Stat stick setups because we didn't have to waste time refreshing our combos. I personally hate having to stop the flow of combat to hit an enemy once just to keep my damage going. It sucks even more when Frames like Mesa, Equinox, and Octavia exist. They don't need to worry about a combo meter for starters, they only need enough energy which can easily be fixed by using Zenurik, Arcane Energize, or Hunter Adrenalin, and they only have to worry about pushing one button for their damage. Frames like Khora on the other hand must first built up to x12 combo, then they need enough energy, and THEN they get their damage. Khora is the only one that gets Combo duration from abilities, but Gara? Nope. Her Shattering Lash doesn't contribute to melee combo. I just got Gara and while I'm still learning how to manage her kit, I really hate having to stop everything I'm doing to keep my combo up. It's also extremely discouraging when I am trying to do so and my Splinter Shield has more range than my stat stick weapon resulting in me insta-killing anything before my stat stick can even reach it forcing me to loose my combo. In order for me to have both I need to use negative range have to literally rub up against the enemies to deal damage OR sacrifice damage on my stat stick and put Reach on it so it can actually out range my own ability to keep my damage on my 1 up. This means I can't increase my ability range TOO much that I out range my stat stick even with Primed Reach and I can't lower it too much or I will have to clip into the enemies to use her "infinite" damage. I don't know about you, but I feel that massively limits my build potential. I'd rather the Xoris do less damage than not being able to use it on that setup at all. My massive issue with playing Gara is that I have to manage too much to keep my damage up. If the Xoris hadn't been nerfed, I could focus on her actual game-play loop with however much range I wanted because I wasn't restricted to playing her entire game-play loop around the melee counter. 

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Ash was fun for just about a minute. Yeah, I’m here to complain about Ash. You could always use any weapon with ash, but Venka Prime was the best choice. With Xoris, there was a second choice, to give up a bit of damage and instead not have to find enemies all the time. For once, playing Ash was actually fun. Now Xoris in the only weapon that you CAN NOT use with Ash, because it resets your combo. It never was a weapon that you HAD to use, just one that made a few sub-par frames actually fun to play. Looking at Ash, Atlas, Baruuk. It had a chance to make Valkyrs Hysteria useful, so you didn’t have to use eternal war and Gram Prime. So now, those frames go back to the trash bin for me, i guess. Unless, and I will really hope for that, we can have the infinite combo duration back. Or maybe some other changes, I don’t know. But Ash is dead to me again. It was fun while it lasted.

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On 2020-07-02 at 12:13 AM, Sean said:

While I get that change, can we also see an adjustment to make the controls for Heavy Attacks consistent?

Holding Quick Melee for a Heavy Attack is more fluid than having it be a separate keybind, and having had to use the Xoris only was a reminder of that.

Heavy Attacks currently are just clunky to use, and all that really needs to be done is have a Toggle within the settings for if a person wants to have "Hold Quick Melee for Heavy Attack", then can still keep a separate line in the keybind configurations area.

It was super easy to accidently heavy with high atk speed weapons and lose all your combo before they removed it. DE recognised this and removed it. Though, adding an opt in feature like you said sounds a lot better as a compromise.

Edited by CephalonPotassium
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On 2020-07-11 at 2:50 AM, -Ironheade- said:

I don‘t think there is malicious intent behind this. I just wonder how the devs could look at the Xoris and not think „Yeah, of course people are going to use this as a stat stick!“.

The malicious intent is that they're fine with riven-powered statsticks, which means a plat exchange for a lot of players, which means DE makes money off their lootbox system. 

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On 2020-07-01 at 8:02 PM, Thanathros said:

... I never got why people complain about nerfing certain combinations that would be a "must have" to play. 

Seems fair to me.

Because now its a "must not have". Using Xoris with a frame that used a exalted weapons resets the combo for Xoris. Which is like half of the point on using Xoris?

Now warframe that uses exalted weapons can't use Xoris because even with the naramon passive, you'll lose combo count. Unlike weapons without the unique combo count of Xoris. Tho I'd rather not DE see this because they'll probably nerf naramon too

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7 hours ago, LifeupOmega said:

The malicious intent is that they're fine with riven-powered statsticks, which means a plat exchange for a lot of players, which means DE makes money off their lootbox system. 

Bingo.

 

As much as I respect DE for working so hard on Warframe, the Riven system is one of the dirtiest forms of pushed gambling available in any game I've played. Especially because it doesn't look like gambling from many perspectives. 

But lets look at it for what it is.

1. RNG for acquiring veiled Riven

2. RNG for the unveiled Riven being for the weapon type that you desire (given the amount of weapons in the game this is a pretty large amount of RNG)

3. RNG for the system used to roll stats. Getting ideal stat rolls is already very rare, then getting good stats on those rolls is a whole extra layer of RNG.

Players trade and purchase Rivens at ridiculous prices. 300-10,000 platinum from what I see in trade chat.

DE has been very non-communicative on this front and continues pushing occasional balance passes related to Riven use. 
Eventually people will get wise to this predatory practice and there will be some major waves because of it. I would hope the higher-ups at DE have their statements prepared for when the press targets them as the next source for this 'loot box' style gambling. 

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Come on DE just undo the xoris nerf, remove stat stick from pseudo/exalted weapons and give some love to exalted weapons they really need a buff.

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Let me start by saying I main Vauban, I don't like most damaging abilities because I prefer my weapons to be the damage dealers.  Since the Xoris came out, i was never amazed by its stats, you can get better ranged damage with most primaries and better melee with most melees.  It was ALWAYS supposed to be a qol weapon.

In my case, I used to use combo-based melee builds a lot because they were awesome.  The only issue with them being I was punished for not using them; once I dropped the combo I had to be prepared to either build up 220 hits or just continue to use my primary, which doesn't need combo to be strong.  That's when I discovered heavy attack builds were possible, and that became my exclusive method of play, because I wasn't punished for not using my melee very often.

Xoris changed that a little bit.  It was now possible to use my melee, use my gun for several minutes, then switch back to melee when I wanted.  However, even with blood rush/gladiator mods it had significantly worse performance than my heavy attack built Pennant.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that even with its infinite combo duration, it is a poor weapon.  The only things it was used for are the Granum Void (where the combo duration is irrelevant because you already kill zenith specters with base heavy attacks), and as a stat stick.  Now it only has one use in the Granum Void, where you have to either play Mesa or (in my experience) Wukong with the Xoris and an aoe weapon to get tier 3 rewards.

My suggestion for an actual nerf that has the intended effect (if you want to keep stat sticks as a thing, which I am mostly neutral on) would be to reduce the Xoris' combo count to x10.  This keeps its power as a qol weapon, while not necessarily making it the best unrivened non-venkaprime stat stick.

Part of the reason there was a nerf in the first place was because this weapon is easy to get, whereas rivens for high-disposition melees and Venka Prime sets are fairly expensive/difficult to get, especially for newer players.

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On 2020-07-05 at 9:15 PM, Atalandros said:

Hey daddy, I'm entitled to complain about pretty much what I want, thank you.

Anyway, the goal wasn't to complain about the nerf itself, but to point out what I feel were the real reasons behind it, and to stress out a possible pattern behind some questionable (some may say absurd) decisions DE made recently concerning the balancing of the game. 

You should really consider expressing your disagreement with other people without patronizing them.

THe answer is no, how long do you have to keep on complaining about the same thing and think that people has to turn a blind eye to it? The Bramma nerf complain is already starting to piss people off, stop it. Your rights ends where other's begin so no you are not entitled to it.

 Want to use a nerf as an example? Why not complain about Nyx's unreasonable nerf a couple of years ago? One of the few trully unwarranted nerfs, but this nerf never gets cited, instead you guys prefer to complain about the very warranted nerfs of ultra OP weapons that trivialized gameplay.

Edited by DreadWarlock
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Il y a 20 heures, DreadWarlock a dit :

THe answer is no, how long do you have to keep on complaining about the same thing and think that people has to turn a blind eye to it? The Bramma nerf complain is already starting to piss people off, stop it. Your rights ends where other's begin so no you are not entitled to it.

 Want to use a nerf as an example? Why not complain about Nyx's unreasonable nerf a couple of years ago? One of the few trully unwarranted nerfs, but this nerf never gets cited, instead you guys prefer to complain about the very warranted nerfs of ultra OP weapons that trivialized gameplay.

1 - Learn how to read 

2 - You may think or say what you want, if someone wants to complain about a thing, he's still free to do it... any-number-of-times-he wants. Yeah, even if it pisses you off. If you don't like what you read, scroll down, comments are in no shortage, even constructive ones. You're not the boss of me, you're just one among many.

3 - Why dig for a two years old example, that is not even remotely related to the matter at hand, when I have a very recent and more conclusive one to pick? Collect yourself : you're wrong and you know it. Get over it, period!

You can go on ranting if it makes you feel better, i'm not interested. I'll just take my own advice and scroll you down, like any reasonnable grown up would do. Have a nice life...

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