Why doesn't someone want to stab their kuva lich?

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

15 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Not really, because on a stab it resets, having to start new, this way if i leave it i get a symbol, can try it right away then without having to wait.

The flip side of that is you wait, you stab and are wrong order-wise.  Then the anger is reset until you build it back up so that you can try a second guess.

There is nothing more annoying (IMO) than knowing all three words and possibly even the order on a low anger lich.  Running 3-4 pointless missions just hoping the thing shows up so that you can kill him or learn the order.  Stabbing early and often sets the anger high while you farm murmurs.  By the time you are done farming murmurs anger is never an issue again. 

The bottom line is you will ALWAYS reset the anger at some point.  You are choosing to do that at the end of the hunt and I would rather do it at the start. 

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

They don't want it to gain levels is all.

[Obviousclone]

fear/unpreparedness for high level content is the only reason anyone has to not stab the lich. 

 

some people will try to mask it as "I choose to" or "I want to" but it's equivalent to saying "I choose to not fight a level 110 boss" or "I want to not die because the enemies become signficantly harder to fight". You can choose to not stand in the middle of a busy traffic intersection, but we all know it's because you don't want to get hit by a car. There's only one effect from the cause of not stabbing that everyone can see.

 

It's always objectively faster to stab the lich at every opportunity. Any stab test has the potential to save you hours of time by instantly killing the lich.

And the literal only actual cost for doing so, is fighting higher level enemies, which shouldn't be an issue if you are set up to handle them. By the time you face liches it's expected the player be capable of killing level 110 enemies as quickly as level 60 ones.

Fearing this penalty, aka choosing not to stab means they chose to run a mission to progress their lich hunt (aka they wanted the lich gone, that's why they even play that mission) but chose not to speed up the progress as fast because they aren't prepared to handle higher level content.

[Talinthis]

because people are just weird, and they do weird things.

[SneakyErvin]

They might have just unlocked a part of the requiem combo and dont wanna lower the anger, so the lich pops the next run and the player can test the unlocked requiem. It is often a thing when you unlock the third aswell and dont wanna chance it if the other two are correct or so.

[kwlingo]

Players are afraid of hard content so they want enemies as low as possible to figure out puzzles. Other than that no reason

[ShortCat]

4 hours ago, Makunogo said:

getting additional thrall spawns is a huge time saver.

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Because I'm trying to farm more Thralls. A mission by default only has about ten Thralls, and a Lich can convert ten more Thralls per mission. And these limits are independent of one another, so I get double the Thralls per mission 

It actually does not behave like that. Converted Thralls count towards mission spawn limit, if this limit is not reached. This is mentioned on the wiki and you can easely test in a Defense mission, since only 2 Thralls will spawn each wave - if you encounter a Lich in early waves, let him convert and then pay attention whether there will be regular mission spawns.

Furthermore, for a Lich to convert, he needs enemies nearby, which is not allways the case. Then, there is the conversion cooldown of 20 seconds, or more than 3 minutes in total. Not only does it needlesly extend mission time, it also blocks other Liches from spawning.

 

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Obviousclone said:

fear/unpreparedness for high level content is the only reason anyone has to not stab the lich. 

Or, y'know, personal preference. Not everyone enjoys fighting liches at the higher levels.

[TARINunit9]

6 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

It actually does not behave like that. Converted Thralls count towards mission spawn limit, if this limit is not reached. 

Is this a recent patch? Because when I let Liches stick around I can easily walk out of a mission with 20+ dead Thralls, which is way higher than the normal limit

7 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Then, there is the conversion cooldown of 20 seconds, or more than 3 minutes in total. Not only does it needlesly extend mission time, it also blocks other Liches from spawning.

As if we going to use those three minutes for anything besides farming Thralls. Maybe if each Lich that spawned also spawned extra Thralls instantly, a la the Wolf of Saturn, I would have incentive to actually fight my Lich as you wished. But as it stands I neither gain nor lose anything either way: we both get the murmurs, and I wring more murmurs out of a single mission

[Alaeacus]

I ask people to ignore my Lich and sometimes they just kill him anyway.  I ignore him when I am 2 - 3 murmurs away from revealing the last Mod needed to kill him, and I don't want to bother Ranking him up to make him more difficult for no reason.  Also, killing the Lich resets his mood/aggro, making the Lich harder to respawn in next mission.  Also also, more Thralls.  

[Obviousclone]

24 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Or, y'know, personal preference. Not everyone enjoys fighting liches at the higher levels.

which boils back down to "I don't want to fight him at higher levels, I'm not prepared to kill him at that level"

which boils back down to "I can't kill a higher level lich in the same time it takes to down a lower level lich". Which is unpreparedness. Which is literally the point of "fear/unpreparedness" that I mentioned earlier being the root cause for not stabbing.

[Alaeacus]

10 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

which boils back down to "I don't want to fight him at higher levels, I'm not prepared to kill him at that level"

which boils back down to "I can't kill a higher level lich in the same time it takes to down a lower level lich". Which is unpreparedness. Which is literally the point of "fear/unpreparedness" that I mentioned earlier being the root cause for not stabbing.

"I don't want to fight him at higher levels" =/= "I'm not able to fight him at higher levels".  Quit conflating the two as being equal.  When I am millimeters close to discovering the last mod, I'd rather not reset my Lich's anger and give him a higher level when there is no intrinsic value to doing so.  

I really don't understand the goal of your argument here.  Why don't you just say "People need to Git Gud" and move along to another discussion.  Because that's basically what you are saying in other words.  

[kevoisvevo]

In my case I don't want my lich's anger to reset aka lower lich spawn due to stabbing it incorrectly. It's basically a guessing game of parazon and I would rather know all the cards on the deck before trying out the combination. It helps too that a very angry lich spawns almost all the time and brings in extra 10 thralls all the time. I tried the stab fast and get to lvl 5 lich method, but in my experience my former method saves me 1-2 hrs over the stabbing incorrectly. It basically comes down to if your guessing game is stronger than the resets to anger levels. For me I ain't much of a guesser.

[Aldain]

Lots of projecting and forcing opinions going on around here.

But that doesn't surprise me whatsoever.

[Kaggelos]

I always rank up mu Lich to max for dat extra difficulty, as well as the enemies that follow it being lvl 100+

[ShortCat]

8 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Is this a recent patch?

It always been like that.

[Corvid]

10 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

"I don't want to fight him at higher levels" =/= "I'm not able to fight him at higher levels".  Quit conflating the two as being equal.  When I am millimeters close to discovering the last mod, I'd rather not reset my Lich's anger and give him a higher level when there is no intrinsic value to doing so.  

I really don't understand the goal of your argument here.  Why don't you just say "People need to Git Gud" and move along to another discussion.  Because that's basically what you are saying in other words.  

This. I have every warframe, and nearly every weapon and mod. I can easily put together a loadout that shreds Liches regardless of level. Doesn't mean I'd find it fun.

[Butterfly85]

I'm saving my lich. He's at lv5, enraged and I have all 3 mods, and i can burst him down with my warframe and gun of my choice.

I just know as soon as i do this, nightwave will tell us to go killa lich next week 🤷‍♀️🤪🤣

[Myth0ss]

18 hours ago, Obviousclone said:

fear/unpreparedness for high level content is the only reason anyone has to not stab the lich. 

 

some people will try to mask it as "I choose to" or "I want to" but it's equivalent to saying "I choose to not fight a level 110 boss" or "I want to not die because the enemies become signficantly harder to fight". You can choose to not stand in the middle of a busy traffic intersection, but we all know it's because you don't want to get hit by a car. There's only one effect from the cause of not stabbing that everyone can see.

 

It's always objectively faster to stab the lich at every opportunity. Any stab test has the potential to save you hours of time by instantly killing the lich.

And the literal only actual cost for doing so, is fighting higher level enemies, which shouldn't be an issue if you are set up to handle them. By the time you face liches it's expected the player be capable of killing level 110 enemies as quickly as level 60 ones.

Fearing this penalty, aka choosing not to stab means they chose to run a mission to progress their lich hunt (aka they wanted the lich gone, that's why they even play that mission) but chose not to speed up the progress as fast because they aren't prepared to handle higher level content.

Nope, there are situations where stabbing will waste a lot more time. Example: I know 3 of 3 symbols  and the correct combination. I just got the final murmurs in the mission I am currently in. My furious lich shows up. If I stab him, his anger will reset where I can potentially run 5-6 missions of pure time wasting, or I can ignore him and exit the mission and jump in one final mission, securing my weapon. TLDR: don't stab a lich if you know the combination is wrong and you can swap to the correct one.

Also level 5 liches can be a pain to take down and waste a lot of time in themselves. I've had them spawn on mobile defense / defense where I can't kill them and protect the objective, resulting in a failure (time wasted).

Also if your lich is furious he has a high probability of showing up and bringing 10 extra thrills consistently, so you really don't lose out on murmurs.

I'm tired of getting BMed for not stabbing liches. Sometimes I stabby, sometimes I don't.  I have my reasons.

[SocialFox]

I can tell you why I don't stab my kuva lich, it's lvl5, I know all 3 requiems, I have them in my parazon, I don't have steel path yet, deal with it.

[DragoonStorm1]

On 2020-07-01 at 11:33 PM, TARINunit9 said:

This is only true if you get a steady supply of Survival and Excavation missions. If you're cursed like me and your Lich only takes over four nodes at rank 1, and four more nodes at rank 2, your method is far slower

Nah, I skip long missions as much as I can, including those you mentioned, unless I'm cornered into them.

 

On 2020-07-01 at 11:46 PM, PookieNumnums said:

60+ liches disclaimer

 

Reasons i always stab? 

Murmurs 

Chance to get one two or all three right potentially saving me hours of grind. 

So that the lich spreads: im not a fan of defence or interception and i cant stand when the only lich missions i have left on a planet, especially the first lich territory, end up as defense or intercept or even spy. I want them to spread so that when im trying to summon them i dont have to sit in those missions for longer than five minutes. Ill follow the lich around the star chart. 

Variety 

The loss of items from all the different planets doesnt bother me. 

 

This guy gets it.

[TARINunit9]

38 minutes ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

Nah, I skip long missions as much as I can, including those you mentioned, unless I'm cornered into them.

Survival is only five minutes and it has by far the highest time investment:thrall ratio

This is where our differring approaches becomes relevant. Let's say we at least both wait until the 5 minutes are up before stabbing, so we get the most Thralls per mission. I'm walking out of the mission with 20 Thralls and a full anger bar, in order to make my Lich spawn in the next mission -- which, if it's another Survival, is another 10+10 thralls. You are walking out with 30 Thralls (ten from stabbing the Lich) and an empty anger bar, so your next mission can only get up to 10 Thralls. But you do get to refresh your mission list, which I agree is good.

Both of us spend 10 minutes to get roughly 40 Thralls

This is why I don't take the "you get more murmurs/Thralls" argument seriously. Because I really wouldn't. What I'm doing is refreshing my mission list at the cost of a more tedious final battle

[CoefficientOfCool]

I think the kids call it, "mood" nowadays. 

[IceColdHawk]

On 2020-07-01 at 7:46 PM, Aldain said:

Oh look this question again.

The answer is the same as always.

Because they don't want to.

Thanks captain. Mind if i let you know that there's people striving for knowledge to try get a better understanding instead of just taking things as they are and not learning? It doesn't make sense to not stab him in the early levels which could bypass a lot of grind if you find out that the first slotted in requiem is correct. So that's a perfectly valid question.

[Aldain]

11 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Mind if i let you know that there's people striving for knowledge to try get a better understanding instead of just taking things as they are and not learning?

As long as you don't mind that I and many others don't give a damn.

This is a VIDEO GAME. Let people do things how they want, especially if they are doing it solo farrrrrr away from your efficiency.

No amount of "But you're wrong!" will make somebody do something they don't want to do, I don't want to play Saryn or Mesa for every mission which also isn't the most efficient way of playing when talking kills-per-second, is that wrong too?