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[Warframe Critique] Inaros: "No Energy Stat" Risk and Reward Playstyle


FoxFX

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23 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Very well written post, but sadly DE will be silent about it as usual unless some senior dev like steve came across the thread directly. 

I just feel that this is something I had to get off my chest. Eventually Inaros Prime is the rumored next Prime Warframe to come, and with a new release more players will rush to get him. Perhaps it won't be in these recent posts pertaining Inaros, but sooner or later more people will talk about him in the future.

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4 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

I just feel that this is something I had to get off my chest. Eventually Inaros Prime is the rumored next Prime Warframe to come, and with a new release more players will rush to get him. Perhaps it won't be in these recent posts pertaining Inaros, but sooner or later more people will talk about him in the future.

One can hope. There was a thread during the release of Chroma Prime back in 2018 demanding Chroma to be reworked that got over more than 1000 replies, but to no avail DE is silent about it.

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Not enough complain about his boring abilities as too many just say "he is super tanky so it doesnt matter"

He is played exclusively on that benefit and played enough to not be on DEs radar.. we will not see any changes or fixes to inaros.

 

Even in his current state people are excited for his prime.

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On 2020-07-01 at 8:37 PM, FoxFX said:

https://gamertweak.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/warframe-inaros-build-1280x720.jpg

<<CURRENT POSITIVES OF INAROS>>

 

  • AMONG THE MORE "STURDIER" WARFRAME OUT THERE

    • Inaros is currently the Warframe with the highest base Health with a slightly average Armor rating. He also comes with doubling his base Armor through Scarab Swarm and some status negation when paired with Augment Negation Swarm .

  • HIGH ACCESS TO HEALTH RECOVERY TACTICS

    • Abilities Desiccation and Scarab Swarm provide Inaros with as much Health recovery options you can have. This is further enhanced with Inaros' passive Undying which allows him to recover 20% of Maximum Health after performing Finishers

  • RAGE BUILD SYNERGY

    • With the Health Stat and Recovery accessibility, mods such as Rage can help him quickly cast away at enemies to handle more tricky situations.

 

<<CURRENT NEGATIVES OF INAROS>>

  • PLAYSTYLE OF INAROS: CROWD CONTROL AND SURVIVE

    • Inaros can survive for a very long time...and it feels that is about it. With all 4 of his abilities helping him remain in the game and self-defending him in some way through either healing or damage mitigation, there isn't anything else that Inaros can bring into the battlefield besides the Crowd Control he has. In general, there isn't much of a reason to use the rest of his kit besides mostly his 4th which provides both the bonus Armor and some healing (with some Desiccation to fill in some healing and CC).

  • INAROS' BLEEDOUT PASSIVE

    • This passive's effectiveness falls off very fast when it comes to higher level content. Of course an argument can be made that it is just a passive and not all passives are that great. This passive also does not allow you to cheat death in Arbitrations unlike Wukong's which only triggers if its health reaches fatal levels. Inaros's downed passive requires the Bleedout State but offers no use of the Secondary Weapon. The damage itself in this state is also mitigated by enemy Shields and Armor.

    • [NOTE] This passive also triggers if enemies are killed within range from other players. While this may make Inaros kinda feel more dependent on outside player intervention to have this self-revive kick in, it does help somewhat that this option is a possibility.

  • DEVOUR: IMMOBILE AND OUTPERFORMED

    • Devour provides invulnerability while the targeted enemy is being.."devoured." But when it comes to self-sustain, Inaros' Desiccation is far superior in healing application and in controlling crowds. The immobility of this ability could also leave Inaros open to Nullifying attacks and is very slow and sluggish in the healing and killing department.

  • SANDSTORM: LOW MOBILITY, LOW-DAMAGE, WILD CC, AND EXTREME ENERGY EXPENDITURE

    • Inaros' Sandstorm has a lot working against it. The high base Energy Costs is something that deeply hinders it along with the wild ragdoll Crowd Control it provides. The damage is Slash which is not that bad right now, and Elemental Sandstorm could be a thing with it and Viral, but the vast Energy costs and the low stagnant damage doesn't make it much worth it. In addition, you move slower for the trade-off if reducing damage you receive while active, but there is little to no reason to have that with the ragdoll Crowd Control going on and the lower speed makes it less appealing for practical use in missions.

  • SCARAB SWARM: A STATIONARY STARTUP

    • Scarab Swarm offers Inaros bonus Armor in its full potential. However, to get the most of it, you will need to stand still and wait for the Armor to accumulate making Inaros miss some of the action in some team fights. There is also the fact that spreading the swarm is a bit gated to having 25% of the total Armor you will need to spend.

  • SAND SHADOWS: WHY?

    • The Sand Clones offer very little in gameplay and do require a specific requirement to create through Inaros' 1-3 abilities. There is also the issue with depending on the enemy AI for this function of Inaros.

 

<<OVERVIEW OF INAROS SUGGESTIONS>>

Speed and mobility is important for Warframes and Inaros' kit is rather on the sluggish side. Besides the Crowd Control and high Self-Sustainability, Inaros doesn't provide much else. However, we do have healing and crowd control as two things Inaros can do, so all he would need is some other special tactic he can provide on the battlefield.

Inaros' gimmick leans on sand manipulation and raising dead so he is more of some sort of "Mummy Lord." Special Tropes associated with these themes also comes with some sort of Curse Inducements which currently Inaros doesn't technically have. So having some specialized debuff ability for Inaros' kit should help him out set him apart from the others.

Inaros' Health is immense and he technically is the very first Warframe to have Health and Bonus Armor as resources for his ability kit. We have a Warframe already that purely uses her Shield to activate abilities, so let us experiment an Inaros that uses his Health and Bonus Armor as costs for all his abilities.

Inaros' tank-like capabilities also can be reworked for a Melee-focused character if you rework his 2-3 to support his melee capabilities.

I will also like to suggest a new kind of Sand Clone universal for Inaros to put to use more effectively.

 

INAROS PASSIVE - UNDYING SUGGESTION

{+} Finisher damage from Inaros' Bleed Out State increases by +XX True Damage every 0.5 seconds while hitting a target.

Inaros' passive doesn't work in Arbitrations which is fine, but the sacrifice of not being able to use a Secondary Weapon puts Inaros in a tricky state in teamplay when a downed player can still laydown some support while they revive them. The damage ramping up will only trigger if the player is hitting the enemy offering some balance to it.

 

"EXPERIMENTAL" INAROS STAT CHANGES OF NO ENERGY AND ARMOR

7de2a915a9ddf9ef1fefcfe8826d1a5d.jpg

  • Inaros no longer has Energy and his abilities require the use of his Health to pay [and the bonus Armor in the case of Scaram Swarm]
  • A gauge in the form of an Egyptian Ank represents the bonus Armor Inaros currently has
    • Energy Orbs collected by Inaros will now add Bonus Armor to Inaros

This is an experimental idea for Inaros' kit. He has more than enough ample Health and recovery options outside of his abilities to sustain himself in combat. The biggest downside on this idea is the revoke of Rage builds, but the upside of no Energy adds appeal to Inaros no longer being threatened by Parasitic/Energy Drain Eximus and Magnetic Procs draining Energy.

 

 

INAROS SAND CLONES REPLACEMENTS: SAND SPECTERS OF INAROShttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/01/1c/0c/011c0cfbb93b168802bd0553691e5869.jpg

  • Sand Clones are now Sand Specters of Inaros that only wield melee weapons [Maintains the 3 Sand Clone limits]
  • Each melee hit from Specters add Combo Counters to Inaros
    • Hitting Status Affected Enemies offers bonus Combo Counters
  • Drop Health/Energy Orbs when killed or when their duration ends

 

INAROS FIRST ABILITY DESICCATION CHANGES

{-} Remove the Lifesteal effect

{+} Pays 5% of Current Health and enemies hit are pulled toward Inaros [pull strength based on Power Strength]

{+} Base 25% chance to turn killed enemies from Finishers into Sand Specters [The Augment will add the chances]

Inaros already comes with a high Health pool and many different ways to self-heal. Offing his 1st's abilities healing effects to tradeoff for a stronger crowd control and the ability to summon specters could offer a better incentive now that the Sand Clones are Specters of Inaros with melee weapons

 

"NEW" INAROS SECOND ABILITY : CURSE

  • AOE buff which sacrifices 10% of Inaros' Max Health to temporarily bless himself and surrounding allies
    • adds 5% lifesteal on hit to all weapon attacks for the remainder of the duration (Strength Unaffected)
    • adds +XXX% Status Chance and +XXX% Status Damage to weapon attacks
    • Killing enemies with the buff from Curse can have a chance to spread the killed enemy's status effects to nearby enemies

Experimental team buff which offers the ability for self-sustain and status effect support. Status Damage has been a stat that currently Empowered Blades has that could be given to Inaros for a special support effect. Status changes and the Status Stack system have become more useful since updates ago that could be explored more.

 

INAROS THIRD ABILITY SANDSTORM CHANGES

{-} Remove Speed Debuff and Damage Reduction

{+} Become Invulnerable during the ability's toggle and grants increased Movement Speed

{+} Spends XXX Health instead and ramps up the Health cost -XX per second and ramps up damage by +XX% per second [Damage of Sandstorm is affected by Enemy Level]

Increasing the speed of Sandstorm is important as well as adding more incentive to using the ability. Elemental Sandstorm Augment can still have some use since Sandstorm already does Slash Damage and that a Viral+Heat combo could make it viable as long as the damage is worth it. Since this version of Sandstorm is faster in mobility and ramps up in damage along with the cost, it could effectively make the ability more appealing to use to control or wipe out mobs. The amount of Damage Ramp up is a deciding factor on how viable this would be however.

 

INAROS FOURTH ABILITY SCARAB SWARM

{+} Increase the drain rate along with the Armor Gain rate

{+} No longer requires an enemy target

{+} Tapping the ability fires a circular AOE infecting enemies with the Scarabs bypassing obstacles (Has a 60% Status Chance)

{+} Scarab Swarm modifies the Damage Type of its damage overtime based on the target's current defenses

Scarab Swarm has always been Inaros player's most favorite ability but it did have its restrictions on needing a target to unleash the Scarabs. While sporting Corrosive as its main damage, it does not inflict any status procs surprisingly. As a 4th ability, it talks some use aside from sporting Inaros more Armor, but if the no-energy Inaros is viable, this would lessen the necessity of gaining Armor this ability currently has. That leaves adding more reason to use the Scarabs. While they provide a useful Health Regeneration and CC, removing the restrictions and adding obstacle negation felt more of a necessity. Inaros is firing ground-burrowing-hungry scarabs. Adding the ability to have the Scarabs adjust their damage type and the new Status Chance adds some more power to not only stunning enemies but also weakening them a bit more.

 

OPTIONAL CURSE OPTIONS CONSIDERED

  • Enemies hit by Curse receive damage each time they attack and move which increases the damage for each attack and meters traveled until duration ends
  • Allows Enemies under Curse to receive a random IPS proc each time they are hit
  • Enemies under Curse receive DoT and at the end of duration, a bursts of damage is deal equal to the total received damage from the DOT and other hits

 

MAIN IDEA ON THESE SUGGESTIONS

  • Maintaining Inaros' surviability and crowd control while adding Status Proc support and more punching power {Sand/Pharaoh themes usually come with "fatal curses" themes}

  • Making Inaros a bit more mobile by removing needing a single enemy target for his abilities

  • Improving gathering Armor time for Scarab Armor and improving opportunities to use Scarab Swarm's firing ability

  • Improving the Sand Clones by making them Specters of Inaros but with a hard limit on their duration.

  • Improving Sandstorm's speed and damage by ramping up the damage and making it scale with enemy level while ramping up the cost for a ore risk and reward style

  • Adding a team support effect Curse so that it is easier for the teams to benefit from Inaros' kit

 

<<CONCLUDING QUESTIONS FOR PLAYERS AND INAROS MAINS>>

  • Do you feel Inaros is a bit sluggish in mobility?

  • Do you truly want Inaros' abilities to be all CC?

  • What are your thoughts on Sandstorm adding Combo Counter to Melee?

  • Do you prefer Devour or Desiccation for healing? Why?

  • Do you think Inaros could have some specialized Status Proc debuff style?

  • Do you want some of Inaros' abilities to be activated much faster?

  • Do you like that Inaros needs a lit of holding down the ability buttons to function?

  • What are your current thoughts on Inaros' Self-Revive Passive and the restrictions behind it?

 

 

 

i read your ideas and i gotta say, iv thought of similar things from time to time, but i really like your idea for a passive, its about the only part if i could redo him completely, i really wasn't sure on how to change. i posted in a separate forum my idea.

Inaros Rework

 

Passive
Sarcophagus works the same with an extended bleed out timer on bleedout, and inaros can spawn into a mummy a few meters away with % of max health and has a few seconds to get to body to revive. Time shortens on each failed revive.
Or when downed, spawns into a mummy several meters away that can revive self. Also has an extended bleed out timer.
Mummy has 1/2 health and no armor.
I would also have his health pool act as his energy. Though I am open to suggestions, I'm not completely sold on my idea for a passive, though I do think it definitely needs a tweak. could be as simple as buffing the damage his passive does currently so it scales a bit.
And of course Heals on finishers.
1st Ability
Desacation
• Blinds enemy's and opens them up to finishes
• Minor healing to self and allies
• When enemys killed through any means, 33% chance while under effect of ability, to turn into a sand shadow
• Inaros and allies can siphon health from sand shadows by going up to it
• Max of 4 permanent sand shadows, each while alive grant inaros a passive amor buff based off power strength and current armor
• Inaros can absorb sand shadow health into his own going over his cap once until health pool returns to below cap.
• Each sand shadow also Grant's inaros % damage resistance and transfers most of the damage to a sand shadow. Stacking up to XX%.
• All other spawned sand shadows last a number of seconds based on a percent of health

2nd Ability
Aggro
• Commands the attention of all surrounding enemy's in a large radius and has a high chance to make them attack him.
• Along with himself, each sand shadow will produce a smaller aggro aoe.
• For each enemy effected by inaros aggro, inaros gains a temp armor buff
• The first few seconds of aggro, inaros is immortal and absorbs all damage taken until he releases it in a aoe of healing for allies with healing aoe coming from sand shadows as well.
• If a sand shadow dies early, releases current built up healing energy.
3rd Ability
Protection
• Channeled ability
• Combines the total armor of all allied frames and gains it so long as ability is active
• All allies are immortal and inaros absorbs all incoming damage protecting them. Ability starts with a massive damage reduction that slowly goes away the longer the Ability is active until inaros takes full damage.
• Works within affinity range
4th Ability
Scarab swarm
• Works generally the same.
• Can be cast on allies for armor buff and if augment is on, they gain effect as well.
• Strips enemy base armor(like shattering impact) and health, and passes it to allies and inaros filling scarab swarm back up, past cap.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i posted this a few days ago, and after reading your, we have some of the same thouhts. when i think of inaros, i think of him as a protector since that is his lore, but his current kit cant do that. as far as his passive, i think yours is better. mine feels a little tacky and cumbersome. the idea of having no armor and having to build it up through energy orbs sounds neat. though i would have it as his last ability, scarab swarm is as i wrote, act a bit different. i would have inaros start with no armor and as you said gather energy orbs to gain armor and have his scarab armor act as it does right now, by using it, inaros will gain half of a capped out amount of armor and energy orbs will have to fill the rest of it. scarab armor could have the curse aspects by stripping base armor from units, and maybe give them a puncture proc, making it the best way to weaken an enemy. im not aginist inaros having some form of offensive ability, i just dont feel he needs it. though i do believe he needs an  aggro ability most of all. what you think

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On 2020-07-03 at 7:25 AM, -Kittens- said:

He's the second most played frame, which once again highlights apparently his synergy is high enough, and I'm rather intrigued in the universe you live in where 700% melee damage isn't enough damage.

Second most played because of how basic and easy it is to use him, as well as how easy it is to get him. The correlation between easy to use and obtain and synergies is near non-existent.

Chroma can buff all damage types incredibly high, yet you still see people wanting to rework him because his abilities are boring or basic. I got chroma and stopped playing him soon after because of how unfun it is to just spam 2 and 3 then play with gun and melee. Same with Inaros after I got beat the star chart. Their playstyles are based on having fun with your weapons more than your frame, which is bad because more than 50% of the guns in Warframe are aimless nukes or standard AR's/guns that become AR's after modding them. For melees, I'd say 70% of them have the same playstyle, which is mash melee. Reworks aren't always made to make a frame more powerful, but sometimes to make them more fun.

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41 minutes ago, (XB1)LZonut said:

Second most played because of how basic and easy it is to use him, as well as how easy it is to get him. The correlation between easy to use and obtain and synergies is near non-existent.

Chroma can buff all damage types incredibly high, yet you still see people wanting to rework him because his abilities are boring or basic. I got chroma and stopped playing him soon after because of how unfun it is to just spam 2 and 3 then play with gun and melee. Same with Inaros after I got beat the star chart. Their playstyles are based on having fun with your weapons more than your frame, which is bad because more than 50% of the guns in Warframe are aimless nukes or standard AR's/guns that become AR's after modding them. For melees, I'd say 70% of them have the same playstyle, which is mash melee. Reworks aren't always made to make a frame more powerful, but sometimes to make them more fun.

let me make it as plain as possible. Warframe is/has way way WAY TOO MANY #*!%ING NUKERS. Too many. More than necessary. No touches, no mames que asco. Inaros has zero reason to join the ranks thereof. None. Nunca. Nada. No.

I'm not opposed to an Inaros upgrade. I am opposed to any generic souless copy pasta of already role-filled and extant frames or any combination in any percentage thereof.

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For the new "Curse" ability, I think Inaros should add status chance and damage to his abilities as well, which would benefit sandstone in damage (slash status) and scarab swarm in armor reduction.

Another thing I would like to see would be Inaros taking hits for the team, maybe like he can sync with teammates and take damage for them with a curse augment or something.

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4 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

let me make it as plain as possible. Warframe way way WAY TOO MANY #*!%ING NUKERS. Too many. More than necessary. No touches, no mames que asco. Inaros has zero reason to join the ranks thereof. None. Nunca. Nada. No.

I'm not opposed to an Inaros upgrade. I am opposed to any generic souless copy pasta of already role-filled and extant frames or any combination in any percentage thereof.

At no point in this rework did I see anything that would allow Inaros to nuke. Dessication does no damage, same with curse. Sandstorm has limited range, will eventually kill you and would still need to ramp up over time. Even then, the damage is a fill in the blank in the original post, so it doesn't need to be a nuke if the blanks are filled with number that won't destroy enemies. Scarab swarm would be unable to nuke with it's current damage. Having damage doesn't mean you can nuke.

This Inaros rework is more of a team buffer than anything with big QoL improvements. Team buffer, tank, and CC is a theme mashup only shared by Rhino.

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22 hours ago, (XB1)Speedy Z5 said:

 

i read your ideas and i gotta say, iv thought of similar things from time to time, but i really like your idea for a passive, its about the only part if i could redo him completely, i really wasn't sure on how to change. i posted in a separate forum my idea.

Inaros Rework

 

Passive
Sarcophagus works the same with an extended bleed out timer on bleedout, and inaros can spawn into a mummy a few meters away with % of max health and has a few seconds to get to body to revive. Time shortens on each failed revive.
Or when downed, spawns into a mummy several meters away that can revive self. Also has an extended bleed out timer.
Mummy has 1/2 health and no armor.
I would also have his health pool act as his energy. Though I am open to suggestions, I'm not completely sold on my idea for a passive, though I do think it definitely needs a tweak. could be as simple as buffing the damage his passive does currently so it scales a bit.
And of course Heals on finishers.
1st Ability
Desacation
• Blinds enemy's and opens them up to finishes
• Minor healing to self and allies
• When enemys killed through any means, 33% chance while under effect of ability, to turn into a sand shadow
• Inaros and allies can siphon health from sand shadows by going up to it
• Max of 4 permanent sand shadows, each while alive grant inaros a passive amor buff based off power strength and current armor
• Inaros can absorb sand shadow health into his own going over his cap once until health pool returns to below cap.
• Each sand shadow also Grant's inaros % damage resistance and transfers most of the damage to a sand shadow. Stacking up to XX%.
• All other spawned sand shadows last a number of seconds based on a percent of health

2nd Ability
Aggro
• Commands the attention of all surrounding enemy's in a large radius and has a high chance to make them attack him.
• Along with himself, each sand shadow will produce a smaller aggro aoe.
• For each enemy effected by inaros aggro, inaros gains a temp armor buff
• The first few seconds of aggro, inaros is immortal and absorbs all damage taken until he releases it in a aoe of healing for allies with healing aoe coming from sand shadows as well.
• If a sand shadow dies early, releases current built up healing energy.
3rd Ability
Protection
• Channeled ability
• Combines the total armor of all allied frames and gains it so long as ability is active
• All allies are immortal and inaros absorbs all incoming damage protecting them. Ability starts with a massive damage reduction that slowly goes away the longer the Ability is active until inaros takes full damage.
• Works within affinity range
4th Ability
Scarab swarm
• Works generally the same.
• Can be cast on allies for armor buff and if augment is on, they gain effect as well.
• Strips enemy base armor(like shattering impact) and health, and passes it to allies and inaros filling scarab swarm back up, past cap.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i posted this a few days ago, and after reading your, we have some of the same thouhts. when i think of inaros, i think of him as a protector since that is his lore, but his current kit cant do that. as far as his passive, i think yours is better. mine feels a little tacky and cumbersome. the idea of having no armor and having to build it up through energy orbs sounds neat. though i would have it as his last ability, scarab swarm is as i wrote, act a bit different. i would have inaros start with no armor and as you said gather energy orbs to gain armor and have his scarab armor act as it does right now, by using it, inaros will gain half of a capped out amount of armor and energy orbs will have to fill the rest of it. scarab armor could have the curse aspects by stripping base armor from units, and maybe give them a puncture proc, making it the best way to weaken an enemy. im not aginist inaros having some form of offensive ability, i just dont feel he needs it. though i do believe he needs an  aggro ability most of all. what you think

  •  

I believe that Inaros has all the tools to be a tank and if there is a "Draw Aggro" ability for Inaros, it would be Scarab Swarm and the bonus Armor that could play out as an aggro type ability (Even the "Energy Orb adding Bonus Armor" passive idea could have this particular mechanic having the aggro grow equal to the amount of bonus armor Inaros has).

We have a lot of aggro-drawing abilities already With a couple abilities some Warframes have here that aren't as tanky suprisingly. But if there should be some aggro-drawing ability for Inaros to have, I feel there should be more to it than just to be the main target for enemy attacks.

Perhaps even some sort of counter mechanic could be added to Inaros that pulses a low damaging but high Status Procing wave each time he is hit or something. It all depends really on imagination.

Inaros may not need an offensive ability since there are weapons out there that could help against threats. Though I feel an ability in a Warframe should have the same presence and usefulness as the weapons they carry (which also means they all don't need to be abilities that are damage houses).

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4 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

700% melee + 3 ranged weapon + curse proc + max combo via minions

I could say that being with 4 people counts as a super nuke if having specters using your melee counts as one, and also, 3 actual people don't rely on clunky AI, plus you don't need to constantly be killing enemies after casting your 1. And, although very costly, If frames that can summon minions that deal damage, I could say nearly every frame is a nuker because you can deploy specters.

But you are right, the sand shadows IMO deal too much damage by being able to use your own melee weapon. I think they should use Inaros's max health and make that their damage.

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On 7/5/2020 at 5:05 PM, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Not enough complain about his boring abilities as too many just say "he is super tanky so it doesnt matter"

He is played exclusively on that benefit and played enough to not be on DEs radar.. we will not see any changes or fixes to inaros.

 

Even in his current state people are excited for his prime.

However, Wukong got his rework, where as many as 3 people were concerned about the removal of his immortality.

On the other hand, its 1 and 4 in a good place. The sarcophagus requires small buffs to be useful. Its 2 requires cost reduction or cost hp so you can move more enemies. And his 3 could pull enemies to Inaros and that would be useful. 

Of course, rework will always be better, but DE can just fix his current abilities and it will be better than nothing.

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On 2020-07-06 at 7:30 PM, (XB1)LZonut said:

I could say that being with 4 people counts as a super nuke if having specters using your melee counts as one, and also, 3 actual people don't rely on clunky AI, plus you don't need to constantly be killing enemies after casting your 1. And, although very costly, If frames that can summon minions that deal damage, I could say nearly every frame is a nuker because you can deploy specters.

But you are right, the sand shadows IMO deal too much damage by being able to use your own melee weapon. I think they should use Inaros's max health and make that their damage.

 

The option is available to just cut the damage of the Sand Specter's melee by some factor (even 50% is viable). It is melee which has the drawback of the duration of the combo counter or ticking down if you exclusively use the Naramon Focus Tree Style. The balancing factors to consider can be included with this.

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On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

Literally every person tries to turn Inaros into Walmart Saryn or Walmart Nekros or both, and in that instance and the idea of Health Battery in game where enemies can one shot you with impunity after a certain threshold is a stupid idea, and Hildryn bears that out pretty cleanly, also if Saryn and Nekros exist, Inaros doesn't need to emulate either.

Nothing about these proposed changes resembled either of those frames...  The closest thing was the Curse concept of spreading to other enemies when killed.  Not exactly carbon copying Saryn there and if we're going to outright block frames from ever having any similar mechanic then I guess every frame that ever got an exalted weapon was just a copy of Valkyr, huh?
 

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

Sandstorm does true damage and already has a proc augment. Dessication is literally fine and everyone unilaterally misses that this ability gives Inaros, whom is a CC/melee tank 700% melee damage, nevermind the massive health return.

Sandstorm also does garbage true damage and throws enemies all over the place, which was one of the main concerns for other frames as well like Hydroid which is why they specifically toned that aspect back.  Dessication was completely left alone so I'm not sure why you're acting like people are missing its benefits?  Everyone knows Dessication is strong.  The topic is not that Inaros is too weak to get by, it's that he's a glorified healthbar and 1-key spam.  It's a similar problem to how Saryn used to just be negative power strength and mash 4, it's not unviable or even underpowered, it's just a bad design that doesn't feel great to play.
 

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

Scarab Swarm also does help immensely as it is, if player aren't using it, again that's on them.  Also given how strongly armor still affects DR, the speed of casting and build is balanced around that.

It helps for the armor aspect, yes, which OP already mentioned.  But actually using the Scarab's for their projectile often isn't as worth it as simply keeping your extra armor and tossing Dessication on the enemy and performing a finisher, returning to the "glorified healthbar and 1-key" problem.
 

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

The entire point of Inaros grabbing enemies and making spectres is damage immunity and targeting redirection and it has jack S#&amp;&#036; to do with crowd control and it shouldn't as his 1/3/4 cover that.

Except the damage immunity is made relatively worthless by the fact that you're locked into a stationary animation and can't perform any other actions to progress the mission or help your team.  Compare again to cast Dessication, perform a finisher.  You get damage immunity from CC'ing enemies too, and Dessication provides significantly more health significantly faster while also affecting multiple targets with one cast and allowing your whole team to perform finishers on them.  His 3/4 technically have crowd control, but are wildly overshadowed by his 1 which means they either need to be buffed up to have their own justification in his kit, or completely revamped into an ability with different intents (IE: the curse concept OP provided that actually fits rather well with Inaros' themes.
 

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

The entire point of Inaros grabbing enemies and making spectres is damage immunity and targeting redirection and it has jack S#&amp;&#036; to do with crowd control and it shouldn't as his 1/3/4 cover that.

That's the exact opposite of what was presented here... Everybody already only builds Inaros one way, massive healthbar and pocket sand.  Because the rest of his kit isn't good enough to care about.

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

He's supposed to be.

No frame is supposed to be sluggish, we literally have a fatframe and he's more mobile than Inaros.  They've already gone over this idea many times about how some frames simply don't keep up with the direction the game has evolved in, they were fine at their conception but without radically altering the game as a whole they simply don't work as well anymore.

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

L2P.

L2GameDesign.  Having all abilities be CC but only one ability actually be good CC is bad.  Why do you think Vauban's bastille and vortex were merged?  More in-game evidence directly contradicting your stance.

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

Down/Lifted melee true damage at 700% damage.

From Dessication.  Not Sandstorm.  So again, you're just defaulting back to 1 spam instead of having any actual value from the ability itself.

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

Devour has damage immunity, there is no fair comparison.

So does Dessication.  Both abilities need to be casted on an enemy within range to provide any immunity, where Dessication as you keep repeating provides a massive damage bonus and instant high burst regen where Devour is an incredibly slow, smaller heal that can't even reasonably be used in high level missions with any efficiency.

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

You've provided zero percent balancing versus 700% melee damage and now you want some proc on top of that. Sure, why not. Let's go ahead and get him nerfed after for maximum drama.

You've provided zero actual value to any of the rest of his kit when compared.  You're really good at providing isolated anecdotes that don't take into account the rest of his kit, but once you put it all together, your only case seems to be Dessication's benefits, which circles us back to "glorified healthbar and a 1-key".  Saryn got reworked for the same reason and became one of the best frames in the game.  Obviously nobody's out here saying everything needs to be as OP as Saryn, but nothing should have to be as boring as Inaros just because 1 ability in his kit is actually valuable.

On 2020-07-01 at 9:40 PM, -Kittens- said:

Spamming buttons over and over isn't any more constructive or engaging.

Spamming 1 button over and over isn't either.

On 2020-07-03 at 7:25 AM, -Kittens- said:

He's the second most played frame, which once again highlights apparently his synergy is high enough, and I'm rather intrigued in the universe you live in where 700% melee damage isn't enough damage.

You know who else was high playrates?  Pre-rework Saryn.  Being picked a lot doesn't mean it's a good design.

On 2020-07-03 at 9:43 AM, -Kittens- said:

Except Baruuk's 4 tables off very very quickly after L150 and Inaros does not, and barruuk's quite useful power which doesn't level off is a 360 degree copy of Inaros which only further highlights my point; omg saryn so engaging and dynamic omg nekros so minions and phat loots, meanwhile in reality both of those frames hit buttons way less than you think and simply wander around the map whilst said signature powers do their respective damage and effect without any player input other than motility. Exciting and dynamic gameplay!

Okay except Baruuk can also put enemies to sleep to get finisher damage just like Inaros, crazy how he has more than 1 useful ability.  Also, you keep making this reference back to "hitting more buttons" when that's not the case people are making.  Nobody here has made the case that "you don't press enough buttons with Inaros", the case being made is there's no reason  to press any of the other buttons.  Having 1 good ability doesn't mean he has a good kit.

On 2020-07-03 at 9:43 AM, -Kittens- said:

There's zero reason for Inaros to do what anothe frame already does as it's staple and signature mechanical theme, nevermind Ember is way more like Saryn than used to be evne with WoF changes and if you want discount Nekros with moar unkillables, tada here's revenant. There's already enough copies, and that Inaros is #2 in player selection preyty much ends an anecdotal "one time I heard lots of people Inaros blah blah blah" fullstop and unilaterally.

Again, absolutely nobody at any point made any suggestions even vaguely reminiscent of making Inaros a copy or Nekros or Saryn.  Inaros already has sand spectres, that's not some new thing to copy Nekros, they just suck and are rarely ever seen because the abilities they're gated behind also sucks.  Spreading a status effect to another enemy after death isn't a copy of Saryn spreading spores that build a growing DoT that keeps growing until all spores are gone.  You're just sitting here making cases that nobody has made and acting like you're the sane one for discrediting them.  You're literally just talking to yourself like you're nuts.

On 2020-07-03 at 9:43 AM, -Kittens- said:

Again there are some neat things here ala curse and let's make Inaros straight egyptian, even though that wasn't the goal at all from DE, and while that's better than virtually every other post that is literally make button spam health battery saryn nekros, but the mechanics threreof are still too similar, and there's already a gigantic glut of nukes and debuffs kits in this game.

Crazy it's almost like people actually like kits that are more than 1 button.  There's very little that is similar about these proposed Inaros changes and Saryn OR Nekros, you've just glued yourself to the most vague minute comparisons and beat them to death as if they were the sole focus of the post.

On 2020-07-03 at 9:43 AM, -Kittens- said:

Inaros began the trend that Nidus perfected, that you're unable to use it properly is on you.

Nidus isn't even vaguely similar to Inaros because Nidus' abilities don't all do the exact same thing but then only have 1 that actually works well.  Also the simple fact that you would call Nidus the "perfected" version of what Inaros was made to be, inherently implies that Inaros needs to be brought up to par, so nice job debunking your entire stance.

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My next article I will be posting someday will be in the General thread and it will be about the Eximus.

OT: I will be closely observing and testing out Inaros more with the Steel Path released. I'd like to see how people use him now in this particular content.

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I don’t know. The identity of Inaros is the warframe you use when DE pull out “mechanics” Abilities shouldn’t really be the focus of any rework for this warframe. 
 

This warframe is something ancient, something extremely powerful in a unique way, having the limitation to that set so high is part of that makes Inaros so great.

I don’t think adding any viable abilities in exchange for his health would serve to improve him, because we already have Hildryn who takes from her EHP to fuel abilities, and she is extremely controversial. Inaros must remain the warframe that sits outside the energy meta completely, something totally analogue, in a digital meta.

The only abilities I would give him would be a grouping mechanic on his tornado that could perhaps strip armour over time.

I would allow him to move during his 4, and I would allow incoming damage while in this state to add extra armour.

I do enjoy the idea of the spectres though. 

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21 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

I don’t know. The identity of Inaros is the warframe you use when DE pull out “mechanics” Abilities shouldn’t really be the focus of any rework for this warframe. 
 

This warframe is something ancient, something extremely powerful in a unique way, having the limitation to that set so high is part of that makes Inaros so great.

I don’t think adding any viable abilities in exchange for his health would serve to improve him, because we already have Hildryn who takes from her EHP to fuel abilities, and she is extremely controversial. Inaros must remain the warframe that sits outside the energy meta completely, something totally analogue, in a digital meta.

The only abilities I would give him would be a grouping mechanic on his tornado that could perhaps strip armour over time.

I would allow him to move during his 4, and I would allow incoming damage while in this state to add extra armour.

I do enjoy the idea of the spectres though. 

I think the idea isn't to just improve him.

But rather give him so build diversity. 
Due to the fact that his abilities are so mediocre(except his 1), the only viable build he has now is build health and become the null giant.

Sure one of his trait is that he's ancient in lore.
But another important trait is that he is the protector. The Lone warframe who woke up even after all the Tenno went to sleep and defeated an infested invasion. Sacrificing himself during the process.

I'd very much like to have that trait reflected as another possible build. Sacrifice my health to protect glass cannons? Awesome!
And seeing how his 2 & 3 is always the one that is up to debate. I don't think anyone would mind if we tweak it a little for diversity.
Not like we used it that often (if at all) anyway.

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1 hour ago, Shaburanigud said:

I think the idea isn't to just improve him.

But rather give him so build diversity. 
Due to the fact that his abilities are so mediocre(except his 1), the only viable build he has now is build health and become the null giant.

Sure one of his trait is that he's ancient in lore.
But another important trait is that he is the protector. The Lone warframe who woke up even after all the Tenno went to sleep and defeated an infested invasion. Sacrificing himself during the process.

I'd very much like to have that trait reflected as another possible build. Sacrifice my health to protect glass cannons? Awesome!
And seeing how his 2 & 3 is always the one that is up to debate. I don't think anyone would mind if we tweak it a little for diversity.
Not like we used it that often (if at all) anyway.

While this works during starchart content, I wouldn’t be using any of his reworked health draining abilities during bosses/eidolon hunts because health is harder to recover than shields, so he would also need a way to recover health that doesn’t rely on targetable mobs. 
 

I think most frames only have one viable build to them. Having a frame with true build diversity is rare, and even then, I would prefer just to be able to use everything at once. I wouldn’t want Inaros to end up like trinity, max duration for bless, min duration for ev etc... just annoying. 

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2 hours ago, FoxFX said:

I appreciate the comment. This is only one of many possible ways Inaros could be redesigned as.

I just hope they do some tweaks to him that reflect some of the great ideas that has been tossed around here before his prime bundle ends

I was really saving up money to buy Inaros just in case he gets a nice tweak.
The fact that he brought the Panthera Prime was just icing on the cake.
A cake which seemingly hasn't been baked yet.

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