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Disappointed to hear about Steel Path.


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My biggest concern was Steel path difficulty would get nerfed before it released. I was correct.  They reduced the challenge already, before it even released. It's a crying shame to see Hardmode difficulty lowered already.

It also didn't sound like any testers played through it all. Why not? 😦

Not going to hold back. That was the most disappointing stream I have watched, since the excellent stream when hearing we would get a hardmode.

Absolute Cringe. 

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Posted (edited)

Bullet sponges are not fun. Imagine filing down a block of granite with your teeth. That's how "not fun" it is.

And with many frames having many survivability options, it's not challenging either. Well, except maybe to your patience.

Edited by KnossosTNC
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1 minute ago, KnossosTNC said:

Bullet sponges are not fun. Imagine filing down a block of granite with your teeth. That's how "not fun" it is.

And with many frames having many survivability options, it's not challenging either.

Never experienced an actual bullet sponge in Warfame. I have heard people claim they exist, but have always been proven wrong when I went to check them out for myself. Maybe you need to revise your builds.

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3 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

My biggest concern was Steel path difficulty would get nerfed before it released. I was correct.  They reduced the challenge already, before it even released. It's a crying shame to see Hardmode difficulty lowered already.

It also didn't sound like any testers played through it all. Why not? 😦

Not going to hold back. That was the most disappointing stream I have watched, since the excellent stream when hearing we would get a hardmode.

Absolute Cringe. 

It's still a good boost to enemy HP and armor. But I agree, it's not a good sign if they're already nerfing enemies and increasing rewards. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

My biggest concern was Steel path difficulty would get nerfed before it released. I was correct.  They reduced the challenge already, before it even released. It's a crying shame to see Hardmode difficulty lowered already.

It also didn't sound like any testers played through it all. Why not? 😦

Not going to hold back. That was the most disappointing stream I have watched, since the excellent stream when hearing we would get a hardmode.

Absolute Cringe. 

I haven't seen the stream, mind recapping what nerf you are talking about?

We didn't play through all of the Steel Path because there were only 2 days for testing, for me the download took a while and I happened to be traveling one of the 2 days, resulting in only enough time to clear 3 planets - still, I believe it gave a good enough insight into general balance.

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1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

Do you know how to limit Loadout Variety? Bullet Sponges. That's how you get people to overuse the META and get it nerfed.

I really question how come I was able to wipe level 5 lich mission solo with braton and nezha before armor change

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Never experienced an actual bullet sponge in Warfame. I have heard people claim they exist, but have always been proven wrong when I went to check them out for myself. Maybe you need to revise your builds.

At very high levels before the armor rework, they did.

And anyway, I was talking more generally, based on experiences with other games. For me personally, that Machine mini-boss at the waterfall in Nier: Automata which took me like half an hour to beat comes to mind. It was really tedious and repetitive.

Edited by KnossosTNC
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5 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I haven't seen the stream, mind recapping what nerf you are talking about?

We didn't play through all of the Steel Path because there were only 2 days for testing, for me the download took a while and I happened to be traveling one of the 2 days, resulting in only enough time to clear 3 planets - still, I believe it gave a good enough insight into general balance.

Here is the stream if you would like to see it for yourself.

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Posted (edited)
vor 12 Minuten schrieb Traumtulpe:

I haven't seen the stream, mind recapping what nerf you are talking about?

Regular missions: 300% health/shield/armor down to 250%.

Archwing: 300% health/shield/armor down to 100% (regular) and level increase from +100 down to +50.

I might be misremembering the Archwing changes but I'm pretty sure the regular mission changes are correct. 

Feel free to correct me so I can edit it.

Edited by (PS4)Deeceem
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Just now, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Regular missions: 300% more health/shield/armor down to 250% more.

Archwing: 300% more health/shield/armor down to 0% more and level increase from +100 down to +50.

Well, the regular mission changes are mildly disappointing, but Archwing changes are a joke. Back to killing everything in one hit I guess.

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3 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

At very high levels before the armor rework, they did.

At which point you built to deal with them by stacking status, and using more than just one weapon.

This is however after the armour changes. So it is kind of a moot point to bring up. Most people don't stay long enough to even see those enemies, even after recent changes. Again  I never considered them to be bullet sponges either.

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21 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

My biggest concern was Steel path difficulty would get nerfed before it released. I was correct.  They reduced the challenge already, before it even released. It's a crying shame to see Hardmode difficulty lowered already.

It also didn't sound like any testers played through it all. Why not? 😦

Not going to hold back. That was the most disappointing stream I have watched, since the excellent stream when hearing we would get a hardmode.

Absolute Cringe. 

There was nothing at all difficult about Steel Path.
More health and damage on enemies does not make them difficult, at all.
It just makes them take longer to kill, makes them more tedious if anything.


Warframe is not a game that can ever have REAL difficulty, because our Warframes are living war crimes.

The only way to make Warframe more difficult is to add in new enemies with different approaches to combat, that don't rely on being nothing more than a bullet sponge.

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13 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Never experienced an actual bullet sponge in Warfame. I have heard people claim they exist, but have always been proven wrong when I went to check them out for myself. Maybe you need to revise your builds.

Never fought a high level Noximus without a corrosive weapon? I'm not sure how the rebalancing affected them, but they used to be crazily durable. And then there's the Wolf, who I'd be perfectly happy to never have to slowly wear down again.

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12 minutes ago, 844448 said:

I really question how come I was able to wipe level 5 lich mission solo with braton and nezha before armor change

Nezha's 2 basically acts like Viral and you probably have a godroll riven on it.

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If builds become "limited" due to these supposed bullet sponges, the issue then is balance issues between the different arsenal options, because then if you scale down the enemy's HP, those previous "viable" options are actually just overpowered, while the rest is just viable, but all the challenge has actually evaporated because if you're having issues, you just take an overpowered option.

"Bullet sponges" are required for enemies to fight back in some degree, if you can kill everything extremely quickly, there's no use for secondary mechanics as the strategy will always be "kill everything before it kills you".

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2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Well, the regular mission changes are mildly disappointing, but Archwing changes are a joke. Back to killing everything in one hit I guess.

I hate to say this, but if those players wanting a challenge are never in the test cluster, then how can we ever hope to have a challenge in the game? 

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1 minute ago, Klavinmour said:

There was nothing at all difficult about Steel Path.
More health and damage on enemies does not make them difficult, at all.
It just makes them take longer to kill, makes them more tedious if anything.


Warframe is not a game that can ever have REAL difficulty, because our Warframes are living war crimes.

The only way to make Warframe more difficult is to add in new enemies with different approaches to combat, that don't rely on being nothing more than a bullet sponge.

You day this, yet there have been many times when players said the have was too difficult. Usually the complaint is disguised by then calling it cheesy, cheap, bad enemy design bandaid, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

At which point you built to deal with them by stacking status, and using more than just one weapon.

This is however after the armour changes. So it is kind of a moot point to bring up. Most people don't stay long enough to even see those enemies, even after recent changes. Again  I never considered them to be bullet sponges either.

I was just giving context to why the armor rework happened. The point here is that DE have basically reverted that armor rework for one specific game mode, and people no longer have to stay long for the "pleasure" of meeting them.

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2 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

There was nothing at all difficult about Steel Path.
 

Then why make it easier? Your first statement defeats your own argument.🙄

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1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You day this, yet there have been many times when players said the have was too difficult. Usually the complaint is disguised by then calling it cheesy, cheap, bad enemy design bandaid, etc.

The only way you could find this content too difficult is if you have not modded correctly to face it, and even then you could just play Rhino with no mods at all and easily breeze through it.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

I hate to say this, but if those players wanting a challenge are never in the test cluster, then how can we ever hope to have a challenge in the game?

There was a poll regarding difficulty for testers; "Were enemy levels too high, too low, or just right?" ~80% of testers answered "Just right." Don't blame this on us.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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27 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

My biggest concern was Steel path difficulty would get nerfed before it released. I was correct.  They reduced the challenge already, before it even released. It's a crying shame to see Hardmode difficulty lowered already.

It also didn't sound like any testers played through it all. Why not? 😦

Not going to hold back. That was the most disappointing stream I have watched, since the excellent stream when hearing we would get a hardmode.

Absolute Cringe. 

I agree but it's not the type of Hard Mode I like anyways. Making enemy tougher is pointless. Rather, make it stronger against Waframes. Although it would made a ruccus in the commnuinty since most of them like to make it casual...

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Just now, Nichivo said:

Then why make it easier? Your first statement defeats your own argument.🙄

They didn't make it easier, they lowered how tedious it was.

Making it take 3 hours to complete an Exterminate, because it takes 10 seconds to kill each enemy, is not good game design and never will be.

Warframe is a game where the majority of enemies die fast with the occasional enemy type that requires a different approach than just shotgun to the stomach like the Nox or a Bursa.

 

This game is on the same level as a Dynasty Warriors game, where there is no difficulty because one swing of your sword carves up an ocean of enemies.

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5 minutes ago, (NSW)Jothki said:

Never fought a high level Noximus without a corrosive weapon? I'm not sure how the rebalancing affected them, but they used to be crazily durable. And then there's the Wolf, who I'd be perfectly happy to never have to slowly wear down again.

Let me guess you haven't figurered out how to break the glass on a Nox, and then head shot them. Games only hard when you set out to make it hard. Which again begs the question why keep making things easier.

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