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Disappointed to hear about Steel Path.


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1 hour ago, (PS4)xBellikx said:

So that's why I remember having way more fun with Mass Effect 3 multiplayer than with Warframe, classes and enemies were crystal clear and 'to the point' there was a clear objective and maps were simple, I also think the movement system (along with other things) really plays a huge part in why Warframe starts to get boring at some point for a lot of people, and then they start asking for challenge.

Idk, ME3 multiplayer felt challenging and engaging, it really made you react when things were going south and actually work as a team, I miss it so much, I would have liked that DE took it as an example all those years back before all this weird mess we've got right now happened, not saying WF absolutely sucks in comparison to ME3 Multiplayer because it does not, but DE has introduced so many systems/mechanics, mods and weapons that step on each other (if one is changed in any way for example) for many years that asking for "difficulty" at this point is a waste of time.

Warframe's issue isn't the quantity of options, or even the movement, but the complete self sufficiency. A single person is able to essentially do it all, which removes the reliance on others entirely. You can't really have difficulty or genuine co-op at all when everyone is able to be self sufficient. All of Warframe's "co-op" amounts to silly things like having 2 people pressing a button at a door in a similar time frame or doing some menial task like getting lures to save time. Even the alleged Railjack co-op was a major joke, it was as simple as having the pilot do everything while 1 person babysits the forge/repairs/use FA/objectives just to keep the pilot from having to go back and forth. There's no real need to work together when a single person is able to indefinitely sustain to full HP, use a Warframe that fills all roles easily, as well as sustaining their energy on their own while killing everything in 1 second. This is why anyone I got to try Warframe eventually quit, it was either I was doing too much, or they noticed I was pretty much afk just so they would be allowed to play. My partner is the only one who still plays occasionally, and even then, that's because she enjoys playing in a supportive manner and is always finding odd ways to fill a supportive position.

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5 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Warframe's issue isn't the quantity of options, or even the movement, but the complete self sufficiency. A single person is able to essentially do it all, which removes the reliance on others entirely. You can't really have difficulty or genuine co-op at all when everyone is able to be self sufficient. All of Warframe's "co-op" amounts to silly things like having 2 people pressing a button at a door in a similar time frame or doing some menial task like getting lures to save time. Even the alleged Railjack co-op was a major joke, it was as simple as having the pilot do everything while 1 person babysits the forge/repairs/use FA/objectives just to keep the pilot from having to go back and forth. There's no real need to work together when a single person is able to indefinitely sustain to full HP, use a Warframe that fills all roles easily, as well as sustaining their energy on their own while killing everything in 1 second. This is why anyone I got to try Warframe eventually quit, it was either I was doing too much, or they noticed I was pretty much afk just so they would be allowed to play. My partner is the only one who still plays occasionally, and even then, that's because she enjoys playing in a supportive manner and is always finding odd ways to fill a supportive position.

I oddly enough relate to a lot of what you say. My kids(feels weird referring to them as kids when the youngest is deployed) will not play because of similar complaints. My friends list  is now half populated by 100's of really old players that have been gone for ages, and likely never to return. Even those that still log in. Play very little now, compared to what they once did, and many have the same complaints. 

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il y a 40 minutes, Nichivo a dit :

I still maintain that +50 will not really be noticed(except for maybe the Golem himself, assuming he gets a hard mode), by any of the actual Archwing fans even if we don't make up a real large percent of the player base. I just don't like the idea, that it doesn't matter, since it's only nine starchart nodes, and the archwing lovers are a small group. Is there a reason we Archwing lovers can't have a hard mode also?

Oh don't worry. level +50 archwing missions will be equivalant to level +100 on normal starchart. This will hard mode for archwing because archwings can't do s*** anyways when it comes to combat.

RN, Archwings are nothing but taxis, and are terrible at combat. The velocitus that oneshotted the eidolon limb back down in earth is not the same velocitus in archwing missions. Atmospheric archguns and Space archguns are not the same weapons. Space archguns are about 60% weaker in base damage and has travel time compared to atmospheric archguns.

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12 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Oh don't worry. level +50 archwing missions will be equivalant to level +100 on normal starchart. This will hard mode for archwing because archwings can't do s*** anyways when it comes to combat.

RN, Archwings are nothing but taxis, and are terrible at combat. The velocitus that oneshotted the eidolon limb back down in earth is not the same velocitus in archwing missions. Atmospheric archguns and Space archguns are not the same weapons. Space archguns are about 60% weaker in base damage and has travel time compared to atmospheric archguns.

I have to disagree on the basis I and others I know have fought higher level Archwing enemies in interception(Higher than will be in any of the hard mode now) before the things like Amesha , primed mods, and a large number of the Archguns even existed. Those enemies have only become less of a threat over time, with the addition of more arch items, and recent other changes. Na +50 will not even be enough to create a speed bump, unless laying a plucked hair in the middle of the road, is considered a speed bump.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

RN, Archwings are nothing but taxis, and are terrible at combat. The velocitus that oneshotted the eidolon limb back down in earth is not the same velocitus in archwing missions. Atmospheric archguns and Space archguns are not the same weapons. Space archguns are about 60% weaker in base damage and has travel time compared to atmospheric archguns.

You're thinking of RJ, not regular AW missions.

For example, the Elytron which is a joke of an archwing in RJ, is the best aoe dmg dealer in regular archwing missions (not that anyone will tell you that). Of course, it is damage that doesn't scale so while it's suited for regular AW levels, it quickly falls off if the level increase (a bit like old WoF Ember).

Also, in RJ revisited, archguns got a bit of a buff so they're actually ok now.

Edited by schilds
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Posted (edited)
il y a 6 minutes, Nichivo a dit :

I have to disagree on the basis I and others I know have fought higher level Archwing enemies in interception(Higher than will be in any of the hard mode now) before the things like Amesha , primed mods, and a large number of the Archguns even existed.

In that case, I have to say that your experience then vs now is very different (in a mathematical sense at least).

In case you were not aware, archguns received a 60% damage nerf in space on the empyrean update. Its a stealth nerf, that got quite a lot of coverage in reddit.

Edited by Aadi880
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il y a 3 minutes, schilds a dit :

You're thinking of RJ, not regular AW missions.

Oh? is there an another type of archgun.

To my knowledge, there is a space archgun config, and an atmospheric archgun config (The UI doesn't tell you this, and say its the same when its not.).

Is there a 3rd type?

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Oh? is there an another type of archgun.

To my knowledge, there is a space archgun config, and an atmospheric archgun config (The UI doesn't tell you this, and say its the same when its not.).

Is there a 3rd type?

The main difference is the scaling of the enemies. In RJ missions scale up higher (and have all that bonus health/armour) than regular archwing. In Earth and Saturn proxima, your archguns will work just fine one-shotting/shredding RJ fighters. In Veil Proxima the fighters scale past the range archguns are balanced for. However the recent revision of RJ has made them much more usable.

Edited by schilds
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12 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Oh? is there an another type of archgun.

To my knowledge, there is a space archgun config, and an atmospheric archgun config (The UI doesn't tell you this, and say its the same when its not.).

Is there a 3rd type?

You have not played very much actual archwing have you? +50 with no other modifiers will be a complete joke. Especially with current gear like Amesha, Primed Rubedo-Lined Barrel, and the intrinsic buffs figured in to the mix.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

In that case, I have to say that your experience then vs now is very different (in a mathematical sense at least).

In case you were not aware, archguns received a 60% damage nerf in space on the empyrean update. Its a stealth nerf, that got quite a lot of coverage in reddit.

Back in the day we played a Raid called Jordas Verdict, the AW infested and Corpus enemies were level 80+ and caused no problems. And that was before we had half the new mods we have now, before rivens, before Amesha etc.

Hell, 4 years ago I fought level 150+ Grineer AW enemies in Solo endless Caelus Interception( used to be a good source of rare fusion cores) and they weren't an issue with all the gear we were lacking back then. Level 100 AW will be a cakewalk.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Back in the day we played a Raid called Jordas Verdict, the AW infested and Corpus enemies were level 80+ and caused no problems. And that was before we had half the new mods we have now, before rivens, before Amesha etc.

I do not think he understands what I am saying. At round 20 of solo interception the enemy levels are around 91 for eximus, that is higher than hard mode will offer, and was easily doable with an amesha and imperator vandal before we even had primed rubedo, and intrinsics. I mean easily doable as in you could be really, really, bad at the game mode, and do it easy solo.

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2 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

I do not think he understands what I am saying. At round 20 of solo interception the enemy levels are around 91 for eximus, that is higher than hard mode will offer, and was easily doable with an amesha and imperator vandal before we even had primed rubedo, and intrinsics. I mean easily doable as in you could be really, really, bad at the game mode, and do it easy solo.

I didn't even have amesha lol. Just used Itzal and used cover.

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1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I didn't even have amesha lol. Just used Itzal and used cover.

Itzal is still my favorite. The grappling hook needs some tweaks though.

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9 hours ago, schilds said:

Amesha is not meta in regular AW because all it offers is invincibility which you don't need.

Good if you're defending a target in Salacia or Rush tho. For Steel Path I mean

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Also, people frequently incorrectly transfer their knowledge between ground, RJ, and regular AW missions. The damage used to be different, the scaling is different, RJ has different elements and status procs, etc.

Actually, now they've "normalised" all archguns, maybe what u know from one is now transferrable to the others.

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2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Good if you're defending a target in Salacia or Rush tho. For Steel Path I mean

They may still be in the level range where you could play itzal ping pong . They will be what 82 tops . I can't remember what the highest level enemy I ever did itzal ping pong on is even.

If you are wondering it's just what it sounds like multiple itzal on voice rotating cosmic crush.

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welp, it seems I've forgotten about archwing intrinsics were still a thing xD.

Then I guess it was a different scaling. 80% of the testers said the level armor scaling was just right, however, archwings was somehow unplayable for the most part.

Either nobody had good gear (which I really doubt for nearly 2000 testers), or archwing follows a really different scaling in hard mode.

Archwings are currently up for a rework, so they might bump it back to 100+ when modular archwings and their reworks does live, who knows, or perhaps they'll sneak in a modifer in the end. A lot can happen in a week.

 

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Nerfing the only thing that should not be nerfed...WoW..Why am i not surprised.....
This base player must be the worst gaming skilled community....Cant even point a gun...
In a game where you can shred anything whit almost any melle..and they call a nerf...
I dont blame de DEVS..only the players
Do this community knows whats a challenge??
Spoiled bratts i guess..this is what the new generation of player is....Such a Shame....
 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

And here's the problem mate, their test cluster doesn't include good players, exploiters, bug finders etc. Once it releases officially, watch the really good players absolutely destroy it and a meta very quickly form for even new tenno to simply yolo through it.

Here’s the problem with that, mate. If a test cluster of a thousand people doesnt include any of those players, then those players are outliers and DE is not going to balance their game around you. DE is a for profit company, they have to balance their game for the majority in order to keep it fair for the largest portion of players possible in order for them to make the largest profit possible. That has to make sense to you, right? I don’t want to be forced into a meta just to clear this content, I’d like to have at least a little build diversity available to me. I also feel like your statement cannot be 100% accurate, I’m sure there are some min-makers in the test cluster.

If they were to balance their game around the 1% (or 5%, I don’t know how many of you there actually are but it is definitely a small minority), it would leave the other 99% angry and not wanting to play the game. That’s bad for business, mate. Warframe is a casual game and it is never going to be balanced around the hyper aggresive min-maxers.

This just ain’t the game for a challenge, and that’s okay in my book. I play plenty of other games when I want a challenge and I play warframe to relax. Not every game has to be super challenging, IMO.

Edited by (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face
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1 minute ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Here’s the problem with that, mate. If a test cluster of a thousand people doesnt include ant of those players, then those players are outliers and DE is not going to balance their game around you. DE is a for profit company, they have to balance their game for the majority in order to keep it fair for the largest portion of players possible in order for them to make the largest profit possible. That has to make sense to you, right?

If they were to balance their game around the 1% (or 5%, I don’t know how many of you there actually are but it is definitely a small minority), it would leave the other 99% angry and not wanting to play the game. That’s bad for business, mate. Warframe is a casual game and it is never going to be balanced around the hyper aggresive min-maxers.

This just ain’t the game for a challenge, and that’s okay in my book. I play plenty of other games when I want a challenge and I play warframe to relax. Not every game has to be super challenging, IMO.

Don't worry, after the update drops expect it to be adjusted, by considering the feedback of the player base.

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12 minutes ago, Alexcavalera said:

Nerfing the only thing that should not be nerfed...WoW..Why am i not surprised.....
This base player must be the worst gaming skilled community....Cant even point a gun...
In a game where you can shred anything whit almost any melle..and they call a nerf...
I dont blame de DEVS..only the players
Do this community knows whats a challenge??
Spoiled bratts i guess..this is what the new generation of player is....Such a Shame....
 

Lmao dude if you think a big health bar = challenge then you are the joke, not the community.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Here’s the problem with that, mate. If a test cluster of a thousand people doesnt include any of those players, then those players are outliers and DE is not going to balance their game around you. DE is a for profit company, they have to balance their game for the majority in order to keep it fair for the largest portion of players possible in order for them to make the largest profit possible. That has to make sense to you, right? I don’t want to be forced into a meta just to clear this content, I’d like to have at least a little build diversity available to me. I also feel like your statement cannot be 100% accurate, I’m sure there are some min-makers in the test cluster.

If they were to balance their game around the 1% (or 5%, I don’t know how many of you there actually are but it is definitely a small minority), it would leave the other 99% angry and not wanting to play the game. That’s bad for business, mate. Warframe is a casual game and it is never going to be balanced around the hyper aggresive min-maxers.

This just ain’t the game for a challenge, and that’s okay in my book. I play plenty of other games when I want a challenge and I play warframe to relax. Not every game has to be super challenging, IMO.

I can understand all of that but here's the thing, it's not balancing the whole game around the 1%. It's balancing 1% of OPTIONAL CONTENT in the entire game, for those who want a challenge. Right now, there is no challenge in the game whatsoever, once you've fought max level enemies 4 or so hours into a endless run, you realise that. I just want 1%, one measly percent of the game that is OPTIONAL and doesn't detract from the rest of the game in any way, to provide a challenge.

From what I've seen in the streams, there's no really good players testing this.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, (PS4)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

Don't worry, after the update drops expect it to be adjusted, by considering the feedback of the player base.

I fully expect that to happen, but sadly I am going to play the odds and say it will be nerfed more.

I bet given a few minutes I could probably find video of someone other than myself doing 20 plus waves of archwing with an amesha to prove how easy the hard mode with no modifiers will be, it's frankly too easy for there not to be footage of it somewhere on youtube. 

Edited by Nichivo
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I can understand all of that but here's the thing, it's not balancing the whole game around the 1%. It's balancing 1% of OPTIONAL CONTENT in the entire game, for those who want a challenge. Right now, there is no challenge in the game whatsoever, once you've fought max level enemies 4 or so hours into a endless run, you realise that. I just want 1%, one measly percent of the game that is OPTIONAL and doesn't detract from the rest of the game in any way, to provide a challenge.

From what I've seen in the streams, there's no really good players testing this.

I can completely understand where you’re coming from on this and I genuinely do feel your frustration. I just don’t think Warframe is ever going to give you what you’re looking for given DE and the games history. They want content to be accessible to the most amount of people because they want to make the most profit possible. And I would say DE made this content mandatory for completionists the second they decided to include mastery, a decision I do not agree with.

I am by no means saying you’re wrong, you’re not wrong and your complaint is valid. I just think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment with DE. You have to understand what kind of game this is and set your expectations accordingly.

Edited by (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face
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