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Disappointed to hear about Steel Path.


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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I can completely understand where you’re coming from on this and I genuinely do feel your frustration. I just don’t think Warframe is ever going to give you what you’re looking for given DE and the games history. They want content to be accessible to the most amount of people because they want to make the most profit possible. And I would say DE made this content mandatory for completionists the second they decided to include mastery, a decision I do not agree with.

I am by no means saying you’re wrong, you’re not wrong and your complaint is valid. I just think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment with DE. You have to understand what kind of game this is and set your expectations accordingly.

Sadly I'm aware of this, think of it as a protest from a bloke down the back waving a tiny flag, hopping up and down trying to make himself heard in the masses. It may be futile but I'll keep at it. Meanwhile my clan mates and I are getting ready to speedrun race Steel Path. Should be fun at least. One of them intends to make Steel Path his normal mode once it's added, just for the added challenge, if there is any.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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Posted (edited)

Since the last 2 pages has been talking about archwing...

Anyone remember what levels jordas raid was? We have gotten way stronger since those ages, so honestly I doubt archwing difficulty would even be relevant... just like the rest of steel path, I highly doubt enemies won't be an absolute pushover.

Edited by Leyers_of_facade
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Posted (edited)

It's up to DE to strategise. It's up to players to tell DE what they want - not second guess what they think DE's strategy and intentions are and adjust what they say to DE accordingly (because then everyone would assume that the current state of the game is how DE wants it to remain and if a player wants anything different they may as well shut up).

I mean, imagine Steve puts out one of his polls and you put in what you think Steve wants to hear rather than your actual opinion, or put in what you think is the "average" player position, or just don't fill in the poll because you think you're in "the 1%". Steve's data will be correspondingly less accurate.

Edited by schilds
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9 hours ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

Since the last 2 pages has been talking about archwing...

Anyone remember what levels jordas raid was? We have gotten way stronger since those ages, so honestly I doubt archwing difficulty would even be relevant... just like the rest of steel path, I highly doubt enemies won't be an absolute pushover.

Yeh I said that before, level 80 AW enemies in that were no problem at all, without all the extra AW stuff we have available now.

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Ahahaha! found one. This is funny as hell. His amesha isn't ranked all the way, only has two mods in it, and his archgun doesn't have a maxed build either. roflmao 

This is a pretty good example since the game play isn't really what I would call that fantastic.

 

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17 minutes ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Lmao dude if you think a big health bar = challenge then you are the joke, not the community.

I respect your opinion, but i never met a bullet sponge in this game (besides Wolf of saturn Six, and i liked that challenge...).
I could say you are not modding right, or playing the rigth way, but i don't want cross that path....
Have fun in your super easy game that makes you feel like a god! 😉

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I can completely understand where you’re coming from on this and I genuinely do feel your frustration. I just don’t think Warframe is ever going to give you what you’re looking for given DE and the games history. They want content to be accessible to the most amount of people because they want to make the most profit possible. And I would say DE made this content mandatory for completionists the second they decided to include mastery, a decision I do not agree with.

I am by no means saying you’re wrong, you’re not wrong and your complaint is valid. I just think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment with DE. You have to understand what kind of game this is and set your expectations accordingly.

Mastery was a mistake I mentioned that in another thread. I knew the instant rewards, and mastery was added, this would go south.

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Posted (edited)

There have been a few discussions now that have pointed out that while a bullet sponge doesn't equal difficulty, the enemy units need to survive* a reasonable amount of time to show off their stuff. The enemy surviving for some duration may not be sufficient to create challenge, but it is a minimum requirement. Then it's a question of, ok now the enemy hangs around long enough, what can we have them do that's more interesting than just soak up the bullets?

*I'm not necessarily saying the mechanism by which they survive has to be a big health pool.

Edited by schilds
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2 minutes ago, Alexcavalera said:

I respect your opinion, but i never met a bullet sponge in this game (besides Wolf of saturn Six, and i liked that challenge...).
I could say you are not modding right, or playing the rigth way, but i don't want cross that path....
Have fun in your super easy game that makes you feel like a god! 😉

“Not modding correctly” - this always cracks me up, like you think knowing how to min max makes you smart or something. I have an accounting degree, I can do math. Being able to min max doesn’t mean anything. Personally I’d rather have some diversity in my builds than be forced to use a meta and be locked into one single build just to be effective. That’s not fun to me. I also like that warframe is easy. I have a stressful job and I like coming home to play warframe just to chill. If I want a challenging game I’ll play something else.

You have your opinion of fun and I have mine. That doesn’t make either of us wrong. I was just saying that a big health bar does not = challenge.

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22 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Sadly I'm aware of this, think of it as a protest from a bloke down the back waving a tiny flag, hopping up and down trying to make himself heard in the masses. It may be futile but I'll keep at it. Meanwhile my clan mates and I are getting ready to speedrun race Steel Path. Should be fun at least. One of them intends to make Steel Path his normal mode once it's added, just for the added challenge, if there is any.

Good luck and god speed, sir.

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25 minutes ago, schilds said:

There have been a few discussions now that have pointed out that while a bullet sponge doesn't equal difficulty, the enemy units need to survive* a reasonable amount of time to show off their stuff. The enemy surviving for some duration may not be sufficient to create challenge, but it is a minimum requirement. Then it's a question of, ok now the enemy hangs around long enough, what can we have them do that's more interesting than just soak up the bullets?

*I'm not necessarily saying the mechanism by which they survive has to be a big health pool.

So you are saying bullet sponges are what creates challlenge.

Spoiler

Or is what I would say if I ignored the reasoning behind it.

Some enemies have interessting mechanics behind them that people never see, like the Grineer taking cover behind a Shield Lancer. Enemies doing combat rolls out of your line of fire.

Hell, we even had people wondering if the Conculysts did anything aside from their spin attack in SCARLET SPEAR with Sentients being at ludicrous levels.

When this mode comes to the public build, I will turn it on and leave it there.

 

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I'm disappointed to hear about kuva changes. I'm sorry, i know i was one of the people who explicitly requested hard mode, but i can not bring myself to play with kuva addicts neither i want to be associated with them. I also did not request a convoluted form of arbitrations 2.0, i don't need more vitus essence, i have thousands of it, i personally asked for hard mode, an ability to start the same f-ing game with a higher level enemies, which is apparently is not going to be a thing. 

So... I guess i'll pass on "hard mode" for now. I'll give it a try later when i know how to avoid kuva junkies.

I know, i know, i'm that guy who make a conclusion before even trying. I know right? Look, me and my friend been there for DE, good times or bad times, we logged in and played Warframe, but there must be a limit to this BS, enough is enough. I hope this will turn out well. Good luck.

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12 hours ago, Nichivo said:

How do you plan to do that when they die fast enough people do not even know the majority of animations they go through. I bet you didn't know lancers will actually cover up weak spots during some animations. Yeah Lancers(and they are one of the more generic of enemies) actually have weak spots imagine that. How often do you get to see a lancer drop a blunt. Diverse enemies that die instantly, will never be noticed. There is actually a very large amount of diversity already out there in the different enemies, that never even gets noticed anymore by most players, because the TTK is so low they will never see it happen. The faster the TTK gets the more of a beautifully crafted game we are robbed from ever seeing. All the time spent on the animations, and AI responses, are flushed out the window with the press of 1 key. Do you remember when disarm Loki was a thing because enemies didn't die instantly, and actual had time to kill you? I do! 

My point is there is a lot of what people seem to want, and ask for already in the game. It's just being obscured by the insanely fast TTK of everything now days.

If you go back to 2015 you can find posts with people talking about all the different enemies and what they do, and others responding with lvl 70 enemies are supposed to be hard. Think about it!

Lancers dont have weakspots, they have strongspots, that is a completely different thing. Weakspot is what Sargas has, the Nox, Crystalized NW units, Synovas etc. Things that prohibit most AoE's from killing them. That is not the case of the Lancer which more or less just carries a cover in his hands that gets circumvented by most AoE but requires some aim from the front.

Add weakspots to the correct units and let those units buff surrounding allies with a multitude of different buffs that increase their TTL. Let a viral eximus for instance buff all allies within a large area with viral immunity while also reducing all other damage by a certain amount. Then add a weakspot to it so we must engage it properly, or we can chose to brute force his allies with a massive damage penatly against us. DE have access to a large arsenal of different eximus options. Heck, the ancient healers should have weakspots tied to them as it is now, so we just dont insta gank them, this would actually make infested a real melee race since we'd have to get close or in the right position to take the ancient out by hitting the spot.

This is of course something that doesnt have to be added to the base game, but for hard mode it would actually solve something. Right now everything dies because we dont need to aim and we have access to so much AoE. Requiring us to aim and countering AoE would go a long way, it would also reward better gameplay aswell as give a reason to bring single target weapons in our loadout.

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3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Lancers dont have weakspots, they have strongspots,

I stopped reading there. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Lancer

Behavior

Lancers possess the most generic combat tactics performed in the game. Shoot-and-run, cover-and-flank, and utilizing covers are the basis of these Lancers.

They will most often fire their weapon in bursts, unlike their Corpus counterpart Crewman.

Lancers will occasionally take cover and blind-fire at their targets, albeit with suffered accuracy; (a) if ever their cover is half of their standing height, almost completely covering most of their weak spots, (b) if standing near a post or an end of a wall, they will rotate their weapons sideways, hiding most of their bodies until moving sideways reveals them.

They occasionally throw grenades, and when behind cover there is an increased likelihood they will throw one.

They are the most likely enemies to carry a Blunt pack, a device that provides the Grineer units additional cover whenever the environment is too open to hide from attacks.

The Blunt pack spawning is shared along with the Elite Lancer.

Do you really play warframe?

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1 hour ago, schilds said:

, the enemy units need to survive* a reasonable amount of time to show off their stuff. The enemy surviving for some duration may not be sufficient to create challenge, but it is a minimum requirement.

This is very important...

1 hour ago, schilds said:

 

*I'm not necessarily saying the mechanism by which they survive has to be a big health pool.

Hey... theres always  Invulnerabilty phases... those are popular.... :P

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1 minute ago, Nichivo said:

I stopped reading there. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Lancer

Behavior

Lancers possess the most generic combat tactics performed in the game. Shoot-and-run, cover-and-flank, and utilizing covers are the basis of these Lancers.

They will most often fire their weapon in bursts, unlike their Corpus counterpart Crewman.

Lancers will occasionally take cover and blind-fire at their targets, albeit with suffered accuracy; (a) if ever their cover is half of their standing height, almost completely covering most of their weak spots, (b) if standing near a post or an end of a wall, they will rotate their weapons sideways, hiding most of their bodies until moving sideways reveals them.

They occasionally throw grenades, and when behind cover there is an increased likelihood they will throw one.

They are the most likely enemies to carry a Blunt pack, a device that provides the Grineer units additional cover whenever the environment is too open to hide from attacks.

The Blunt pack spawning is shared along with the Elite Lancer.

Do you really play warframe?

Mixed up Lancer with elite shield lancer. 

That is still not a weakspot system. I mean, you must clearly understand the difference between an actual spot you must fire at and a mob being hidden behind cover right? An actual weakspot mechanic requires you to fire at that specific spot while the mob is immune to most everything else. Nox being an exception that isnt immune, but he takes far less damage before the weakspot is removed. The lancer dies just the same no matter which part of it you hit and it isnt immune to AoE while behind cover etc.

I'm not sure how you can even think that the lancer has weakspots when I even gave you several examples of actual weakspots in the game that does exactly what I suggest should be added elsewhere. I'll give you two more, Thumpers and Leph/Hemo.

Do you understand the vast difference now between lancer "weakspot" and actual weakspots? If not, I'm not sure how much more simple I can explain it to you.

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36 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Mixed up Lancer with elite shield lancer. 

That is still not a weakspot system. I mean, you must clearly understand the difference between an actual spot you must fire at and a mob being hidden behind cover right? An actual weakspot mechanic requires you to fire at that specific spot while the mob is immune to most everything else. Nox being an exception that isnt immune, but he takes far less damage before the weakspot is removed. The lancer dies just the same no matter which part of it you hit and it isnt immune to AoE while behind cover etc.

I'm not sure how you can even think that the lancer has weakspots when I even gave you several examples of actual weakspots in the game that does exactly what I suggest should be added elsewhere. I'll give you two more, Thumpers and Leph/Hemo.

Do you understand the vast difference now between lancer "weakspot" and actual weakspots? If not, I'm not sure how much more simple I can explain it to you.

You have clearly missed a lot of content in this thread. Maybe you should go catch up. If you had read the thread you would understand all the things being missed  because of the insanely low TTK. Instead of trying to argue things nobody in this thread is arguing. 

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56 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

You have clearly missed a lot of content in this thread. Maybe you should go catch up. If you had read the thread you would understand all the things being missed  because of the insanely low TTK. Instead of trying to argue things nobody in this thread is arguing. 

Nope, havent missed anything in the thread, I simply came with an idea that would actually impact the game instead of the old sponge approach that somehow people classify as challenge and complain about here when it gets reduced/shifted.

My idea simply came as an answer regarding another thing that popped up here. Then you started to argue about how this idea was already in the game with lancers, a unit that works nowhere near what I proposed or near the mobs I compared it to.

Maybe you missed something?

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7 minutes ago, Amazerath said:

@Nichivo

Were you in the test cluster?

Already been answered multiple times.

31 minutes ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

So apparently the Official patch notes were wrong. According to [DE]Sasuke anyway https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugzo9o1OStC-itSwAGR4AaABCQ

so this mean shielded enemies will have 87.5% of their original ehp, while armored units will have about 77% of their ehp

Is that an apology? 

 

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope, havent missed anything in the thread, I simply came with an idea that would actually impact the game instead of the old sponge approach that somehow people classify as challenge and complain about here when it gets reduced/shifted.

My idea simply came as an answer regarding another thing that popped up here. Then you started to argue about how this idea was already in the game with lancers, a unit that works nowhere near what I proposed or near the mobs I compared it to.

Maybe you missed something?

Nope not at all. There are no sponges. Sponges and spoons do not exist didn't you get the memo?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Is that an apology?

If you want to see it that way, then go ahead. Apparently acting on new information requires an apology? Doesn’t change the fact that tomato cans are boring, but w/e

Edited by (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Nichivo said:

I still maintain that +50 will not really be noticed(except for maybe the Golem himself, assuming he gets a hard mode)

He does indeed have a Steel Path version, and was a pain to kill on the first try because I had the wrong element. Quick and easy with Corrosive though.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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37 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Nope not at all. There are no sponges. Sponges and spoons do not exist didn't you get the memo?

They are, since they become that when EHP is what increases since they can soak up more damage while given no extra mechanics based on their level or the difficulty. Even though a mob may get insta killed the same with 2x higher EHP it still doesnt change that it is sponge design and the mob is a sponge since all it can do is soak up damage.

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