Disappointed to hear about Steel Path.

[NoMoreFAIL]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Yep I read it, what you don't realise is that Sharpened clawa could strip his armour on release, you didn't need to use status procs which he was immune to.

Oh I do realise it but how often did you go into a mission with Sharpened Claws prepared for a Wolf spawn? On release its spawn rate was extremely low.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, NoMoreFAIL said:

Oh I do realise it but how often did you go into a mission with Sharpened Claws prepared for a Wolf spawn? On release its spawn rate was extremely low.

Every single mission. Which brings us back to what I said about being prepared. If you're gonna go into Steel Path or any other "hard" content without the right gear, that's a problem of your own making.

[NoMoreFAIL]

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Regular Corpus took 2 shots, regular Grineer 3-4. Rare units took quite a few more. Level x+50 enemies literally die in one hit.

Crap, I was hoping for some real archwing dogfights...

[NoMoreFAIL]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Every single mission. Which brings us back to what I said about being prepared. If you're gonna go into Steel Path or any other "hard" content without the right gear, that's a problem of your own making.

Nah, I am fully prepared for it. From what I hear it doesn't sound much harder than regular level 5 lich missions and those were a joke for a veteran. Sure, 4-5x tankier enemies but that generally means 2-3 seconds to kill them instead of 1 sec which I am fine with. Tbh I'd love a mode where enemies are level 9999 without having to spend several hours in endless.

[TARINunit9]

8 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

It was DE's survey from the Test Cluster participants. Rebecca showed it in the Twitch Stream its about 8 minutes in during their introduction.

Lemme read through that...

OK there's something really confusing about this survey: most of the questions are phrased as if they were given to players BEFORE the test cluster even existed, but other questions (such as "how many planets did you clear?") imply that no, these are indeed results of players who already got to play it

Even if we assume that yes, these are people who got to play Steel Path, the question of "is the +100 level modifier too high, too low, or just right?" is missing a followup question: "is the 300% enemy health modifier too high, too low, or just right?" Because that's the part they nerfed, not the enemy level modifier, yet that's the part they either didn't collect feedback on or didn't publish feedback on

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, NoMoreFAIL said:

Nah, I am fully prepared for it. From what I hear it doesn't sound much harder than regular level 5 lich missions and those were a joke for a veteran. Sure, 4-5x tankier enemies but that generally means 2-3 seconds to kill them instead of 1 sec which I am fine with. Tbh I'd love a mode where enemies are level 9999 without having to spend several hours in endless.

See this I agree with. It just seems to me that most examples ppl have given have been based around un-optimised gameplay. Which is kind've expected in a hardmode, at least you'd hope so.

[Nichivo]

21 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

So with my morning coffee, and that's very important gotta have my coffee. I watched the stream recording, and seeing your thread here let's engage!

First iteration of a hard mode for DE it would be dumb on their part not to play it safe this isn't meant to be legendary or mythic +++. The poll showed 97% interest in the hard mode DE knows out of their sample size from the Test Cluster that the desire is there they are going to look at this mode with for more interest now and later iterations if those numbers hold up will be forthcoming. A 250% increased shield/armor/health is still going to be significant. 

Now Archwing that change needed to happen I am in complete agreement with the feedback that needed to change. Archwing's and their weapons do not have the same punch that our Warframes do and it shows and if you wanted that to stay you make my masochism look like reading Blues Clues to a group of three year olds.

Because they couldn't get very far in it with just a few days in the test cluster iteration. Not everyone plays at the same level and no piece of content is worth development resources if it only caters to the 1%. It has to have appeal and people need to feel they can succeed in what they are doing. If they do not see that light at the end of the tunnel then they will be turned off.

Personal opinion that's fine.

If you hadn't put this in I would not be making a mental note that I am adding you to nebulous hey there's is a troll list.

In conclusion here, the very people who got this ball rolling with Scott in Shy's podcast all said that it was over tuned, the former partners in the test cluster made videos talking about rewards and difficult and it was unanimously said that the test cluster was over tuned when written feedback corroborates that it is a clear sign that hey this mode is overtuned. I will also point out that this entire mode stems from DE's desire to have the content creators play the game and not be in the Simulacrum to test weapons and Frames with their crazy high end builds. With that in mind yes of course the are going to seriously weigh the feedback from the very people who in their videos and podcasts asked even begged for this mode in the game.

While I was hoping they would leave it at 300% personally the adjustments talked about in the Stream are fair, and reasonable. And if players wan't more in the line of hard modes with other modifiers and rewards in the future. They better play the ever living hell out of this new mode so DE has the internal numbers to show that this wasn't a waste.  

Cheers o/

I played higher level Archwing content in interception solo, then will now be in arching hardmode, back before a bunch of the mods we have for it even existed. The only node that had any concern for me was Kepler for what should be obvious reasons.The TTK on the orbiters at the ships during a timed run could be crucial. Other then that I wasn't really concerned and planned to as usual play through it solo.

So I completely disagree with the severe amount of change there. 

Do you want to group me in the 1%? Ok fine. Removing our chance to have the week or two to enjoy it before it gets nerfed for the 99% really bothers me. I'm used to having a limited amount of time as of late to enjoy new things before they get hammered, but this completely removed that option all together. It's ok though the 1% isn't important. Even Spock would say as much. Ignoring the concerns of players because they are of the 1%,or 99% is not good business, and lets be honest it's a business. Isn't it?

Have not changed my mind at all.

 

 

[NoMoreFAIL]

6 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

See this I agree with. It just seems to me that most examples ppl have given have been based around un-optimised gameplay. Which is kind've expected in a hardmode, at least you'd hope so.

I think DE just don't want to adjust content to optimised gameplay because they are afraid this will enforce a meta and I have to admit I understand their concerns. Sales would plummit if there were only a few viable things to use. The first thing I noticed when I watched a stream for the first time was that Rebbeca's loadouts were complete crap and I think that's done on purpose. I doubt she doesn't know how to properly mod (God, that'd be awful), I just think they want to make content more accessible. The problem with this approach is that they are making hard mode and suddenly trying to also make it accessible.

Hell, give me my level 9999 star chart with an extremely useless (but cool) reward like a unique glpyh and I'd gladly do it!

[Leyers_of_facade]

52 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

Try 1 million ehp bullet sponge at lvl 130 normal Lancers and 3 million ehp corrupted hardmode grinner gunner. I like challenge as muchas the next guy but it's only going encourage riven meta.

3 million ehp is nothing, 175 corrupted heavy gunners have 3.2m ehp, and they can still get melted extremely quickly by multiple weapons, even without rivens.

Examples of such (weapons that can shred 175 CHG without rivens) that I can think of off the top of my head

A lot of the beam weapons: Eg. K. Nukor, Synapse, quanta vandal. Phage likely can too but I sold that weapon and haven't recrafted 😛 

The popular snipers: Vectis p, Rubico p, lanka

A lot of the Auto-rifles: Prisma Grakata, K. Karak, soma p. (zenith p auto mode, likely tiberon p too but haven't modded that one up properly yet)

Semi-Autos: Latron Wraith , kuva brakk  (sorry, I don't like this class of weapons, so I barely touched them in general)

Some of the better bows: Dread, cernos prime, rakta cernos,

At least a few shotguns: Tigris prime, kuva kohm, (not a big fan of this class either, so I didn't fully mod all of them)

Others: opticor (both varients)

 

Not to mention essentially a ton of melee can do so as well...

 

 

The thing is... even at 3million ehp, a lot of weapons are more than capable of handling them even without rivens if you mod them properly. With rivens, the list probably extends to way over half (maybe even 80+%). 

 

 

 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, NoMoreFAIL said:

I think DE just don't want to adjust content to optimised gameplay because they are afraid this will enforce a meta and I have to admit I understand their concerns. Sales would plummit if there were only a few viable things to use. The first thing I noticed when I watched a stream for the first time was that Rebbeca's loadouts were complete crap and I think that's done on purpose. I doubt she doesn't know how to properly mod (God, that'd be awful), I just think they want to make content more accessible. The problem with this approach is that they are making hard mode and suddenly trying to also make it accessible.

Hell, give me my level 9999 star chart with an extremely useless (but cool) reward like a unique glpyh and I'd gladly do it!

They honestly need to look at this just for once, as something for the few and not the masses that will complain regardless of what they do. 99% of Warframe content is a cakewalk, just give us 1%. They couldn't even leave the last event alone without nerfing it to be fairer for casual players.

[Chicken-Biryani]

5 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Ignoring the concerns of players because they are of the 1%,or 99% is not good business, and lets be honest it's a business. Isn't it?

Well than, I am surprised that you have been whining for this long about DE doing what's obviously the better decision for their "business". As a consumer your only "business" in "DE's business decisions" is to no longer support them and play something else, if it hurts you to this extent. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Mnmm yes this thread 

 

[Nichivo]

23 minutes ago, NoMoreFAIL said:

It was all fun and games before Wolf of saturn six appeared with his status immunity.

Has nobody in this thread heard of the sarpa, or shattering impact. You didn't need status. OMG! No wonder things keep getting made easier.🤣

[nslay]

30 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You remember how I said being prepared yeh? If you're going into Hardmode with casual gear, that's a problem of your own making, it doesn't actually mean they're sponges.

And I did tell you that was horrible shooting, the headshots are the ones that mattered, count those.

The more I watch it... I watched the thing in 25% playback speed a few times. I mean it takes you about 40 seconds to kill this guy... OK, you're avoiding his attacks so that makes it take longer. And you spend 23 rounds total on him (you pickup 5 sniper rounds in the middle and 5 of your initial shots halve his life). And he's level 60, his armor is all stripped and you're using a Rubico Prime. Yeah, you kill him faster than the 4 player scenario. But the lengths you needed to go to kill him (all those head shots and some body shots), all armor stripped, one of the most powerful sniper rifles in the game. I don't know how you can look at this any other way... he's a bullet sponge.

Imagine needing to do all of that to kill just one basic Elite Lancer. You'd need lots of ammo pads for your Rubico Prime.

[Chicken-Biryani]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

The more I watch it... I watched the thing in 25% playback speed a few times. I mean it takes you about 40 seconds to kill this guy... OK, you're avoiding his attacks so that makes it take longer. And you spend 23 rounds total on him (you pickup 5 sniper rounds in the middle and 5 of your initial shots halve his life). And he's level 60, his armor is all stripped and you're using a Rubico Prime. Yeah, you kill him faster than the 4 player scenario. But the lengths you needed to go to kill him (all those head shots and some body shots), all armor stripped, one of the most powerful sniper rifles in the game. I don't know how you can look at this any other way... he's a bullet sponge.

Imagine needing to do all of that to kill just one basic Elite Lancer. You'd need lots of ammo pads for your Rubico Prime.

This is so true. 

Yeah, turn the whole game into conclave. The game will top the steam charts at 100 players on a good day, and standalone might fetch another 100-200 at best. 

(Ofc I exaggerate, but the point is made.)

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, nslay said:

The more I watch it... I watched the thing in 25% playback speed a few times. I mean it takes you about 40 seconds to kill this guy... OK, you're avoiding his attacks so that makes it take longer. And you spend 23 rounds total on him (you pickup 5 sniper rounds in the middle and 5 of your initial shots halve his life). And he's level 60, his armor is all stripped and you're using a Rubico Prime. Yeah, you kill him faster than the 4 player scenario. But the lengths you needed to go to kill him (all those head shots and some body shots), all armor stripped, one of the most powerful sniper rifles in the game. I don't know how you can look at this any other way... he's a bullet sponge.

Imagine needing to do all of that to kill just one basic Elite Lancer. You'd need lots of ammo pads for your Rubico Prime.

Oh I'm not denying he's a pain in the ass to hit due to those damn rushes of his but when the headshot hits, it chunks him and in that 1st vid if you notice my lazy cat didn't strip his armour for me so it took longer due to that. With his armour stripped he doesn't take long, it's just landing a hshot that's a bit tough, body shots do very little dmg. Most enemies barring Nox don't have that kind of irritating movement. As for the Rubico prime, ammo pads bit, again, being prepared in a scenario that's supposed to be a challenge. I'm not gonna brandish my 6 forma Mk1 Braton(yes I have one lol) and go wading in to something that's supposed to be "hard".

[Nichivo]

9 minutes ago, Nehra96 said:

Well than, I am surprised that you have been whining for this long about DE doing what's obviously the better decision for their "business". As a consumer your only "business" in "DE's business decisions" is to no longer support them and play something else, if it hurts you to this extent. 

You should probably read that quote again you missed something. 

[nslay]

6 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Oh I'm not denying he's a pain in the ass to hit due to those damn rushes of his but when the headshot hits, it chunks him and in that 1st vid if you notice tmy lazy cat didn't strip his armour for me so it took longer due to that. With his armour stripped he doesn't take long, it's just landing a hshot that's a bit tough, body shots do very little dmg.

Well let's what hardmode brings.

[kevoisvevo]

42 minutes ago, schilds said:

You said that they're a "bullet sponge". If we can squish them flat so quickly, then they're not a bullet sponge.

sure if you are using cheese meta, high dps frames like khora and riven builds but what about the normal play?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, nslay said:

Well let's what hardmode brings.

Currently, I predict not much. Nerfed before it began 😞

[schilds]

1 minute ago, kevoisvevo said:

sure if you are using cheese meta, high dps frames like khora and riven builds but what about the normal play?

Let me guess, anything that can squish those kinds of enemies flat in a couple of seconds is "cheese meta".

[Leyers_of_facade]

1 minute ago, schilds said:

Let me guess, anything that can squish those kinds of enemies flat in a couple of seconds is "cheese meta".

if you exclude everything that works, then surely the conclusion is nothing (aside from those excluded) works! 

gotta love people with that logic ngl. 🤣

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, schilds said:

Let me guess, anything that can squish those kinds of enemies flat in a couple of seconds is "cheese meta".

I'm detecting a trend from these people objecting about bullet sponges...

[Angwah]

Eh, not saying that Wolf was a bit overtuned, but let us also not pretend that Zilchy is arguing for random elite lancers to be brought up to that level. Nobody is.

Wolf isn't a thrash mob, and it seems like a good mini boss fight to me, no?

You gotta dodge, you have to aim, he's faster and less static than most mobs, the duration really is not out of line for a mini boss, so hey, what's not to like.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

^ this guy's smart.